Jack Charlton post Ireland [Archive]

Lionel Ritchie

26/11/2007, 3:12 PM

Guys I know this is only semi-related to the Irish team but why did Jack never work again in management ???
Did no one ever come looking for him after 1995 .......

Before Jack finished with us at all there was an element within the Leeds United support who wanted Wilkinson gone that were pimping Jack as a natural replacement. As it happened Wilko was still at Leeds for a little under a year after Jacks Ireland career ended.

The manner of Jacks "fall" shall we call it did not put him in a great light amongst those who might've had an eye on him as a potential club manager only a couple of years earlier. Qualification for England 96 from a quite winable group was p1ssed away and it was evident and a matter of public record that there was quite serious derrogation of duty on Jacks part during that campaign.

There would have been a common enough view after he left that he was a "beaten docket" so to speak and, to be fair, I can't recall him pimping himself for any managment gigs either.

Torn-Ado

26/11/2007, 3:26 PM

He must have been getting on a bit too. How old is he now?

geysir

26/11/2007, 4:04 PM

From wikipedia:
"After failing to qualify for Euro 96, Charlton quit. His involvement in the game since has been restricted (by his own choice) to punditry and speaking."
I heard him do a bit of co - commentating years ago on Radio 5, on one game he must have corrected the commentator about 10 times, each time starting with the equivalent of 'you're talking rubbish'.

Billsthoughts

26/11/2007, 4:41 PM

didnt he call connolly a "little prat" that time he got sent off against belgium. he was co commentating for channel 5 I think.

Lionel Ritchie

26/11/2007, 5:28 PM

He must have been getting on a bit too. How old is he now?

He'd be 72 now.

Drumcondra 69er

26/11/2007, 5:35 PM

He'd be 72 now.

Has he died?? :D

Lionel Ritchie

28/11/2007, 10:49 AM

Alive and kicking and long may he continue. They played some of an interview done yesterday with him in Cork by RTE Radio 1 and he still doesn't suffer journalists well. Put one of them right back in their box on exactly who had raised the subject of Venables ("No -YOU mentioned Terry Venables -trying to put words in me mouth").

Went on to say he reckons Venables would be fine (described 64 year old Venables as "a good lad" :D ) but that he doesn't think the player stock is as good as it was when he was in charge.
Went on to blame foreigners in the premiership for all that and Englands woes too...

EAFC_rdfl

28/11/2007, 11:10 AM

sounds like a good interview! any links? hardly is

Stuttgart88

28/11/2007, 11:16 AM

I heard him do a bit of co - commentating years ago on Radio 5, on one game he must have corrected the commentator about 10 times, each time starting with the equivalent of 'you're talking rubbish'.
Famous line during the Yougoslavia game (I think) when Mark Kennedy was pursuing a guy with the ball, Jack blurted "foul him!"

gspain

28/11/2007, 1:49 PM

Before Jack finished with us at all there was an element within the Leeds United support who wanted Wilkinson gone that were pimping Jack as a natural replacement. As it happened Wilko was still at Leeds for a little under a year after Jacks Ireland career ended.

The manner of Jacks "fall" shall we call it did not put him in a great light amongst those who might've had an eye on him as a potential club manager only a couple of years earlier. Qualification for England 96 from a quite winable group was p1ssed away and it was evident and a matter of public record that there was quite serious derrogation of duty on Jacks part during that campaign.

There would have been a common enough view after he left that he was a "beaten docket" so to speak and, to be fair, I can't recall him pimping himself for any managment gigs either.

The stories of the week in Limerick prior to the Austria home game are legendary. We should have stuffed a poor Austrian side and that would have been enough to qualify directly.

paul_oshea

28/11/2007, 3:16 PM

Drumcondra 69er

28/11/2007, 3:22 PM

that austria game really sticks out in my mind, who was that feall that scored for htem twice, opportunist goals, they did very little but we still conceded 3 against them home and away, dont know why but those games really stick out in my mind. Its a real shame he didnt get us to Euro 96, but we were well beaten against holland and other teams in teh group itself, change was required.

At the end of the day, those who chastise jack and give out about him, he got us to 3 major championships, no one bettered, and prolly never will. He did a brilliant job and if we got half of hte success we had under him now i would bite yer hand off. Anyone who differs is a fool and an ignorant narrow-minded one at that. simple as that. Denying Brady the chance to play in the biggest games of his career was probably was probably the only real big mistake he ever made. Something that should never have happened but...

Toni Polster it was. The little sh1t! :D

I aagree with you apart from the Brady bit? Brady was suspended for the first 2 games of Euro 88 due to his red card against Bulgaria in the qualifiers. No clean slate for the finals in those days. As it happens he was injured for the finals in any case but joined the squad as a non playing member. He'd have been in the squad for the Holland game had he been fit.

You're not suggesting he should have been in the Italia '90 squad surely?

paul_oshea

28/11/2007, 3:46 PM

I aagree with you apart from the Brady bit? Brady was suspended for the first 2 games of Euro 88 due to his red card against Bulgaria in the qualifiers. No clean slate for the finals in those days. As it happens he was injured for the finals in any case but joined the squad as a non playing member. He'd have been in the squad for the Holland game had he been fit.

I thought it was one game ban sorry. I also thought brady was fit for the holland game?!

Drumcondra 69er

28/11/2007, 4:10 PM

I thought it was one game ban sorry. I also thought brady was fit for the holland game?!

Nah, definite 2 game ban, UEFA screwed him. Am certain he was injured though, a recuurance of the knee injury he got playing for West Ham in 87 if I recall correctly. Same injury finally finished his career.

The Chalrton / Brady controversy was when he subbed him in 89 in a friendly after 35 minutes as he thought his legs had gone. Brady reckoned he should have waited till half time. He was knackered by then though, his knees had gone. He only played once more, a warm up game against Finland for the 90 WC that also served as his testimonial but that was the only reason he was in the squad. Townsend replaced him after 25 minutes. They awarded caps for it though as far as I know.

stojkovic

28/11/2007, 6:22 PM

He actually got a 4 match ban which was reduced to two on appeal.

As you say, it didnt matter as he got injured.

Still wonder how we would have done with Brady, Lawrenson and Beglin all fit in 88.

viagogo

28/11/2007, 6:27 PM

Drumcondra 69er

29/11/2007, 9:54 AM

He actually got a 4 match ban which was reduced to two on appeal.

As you say, it didnt matter as he got injured.

Still wonder how we would have done with Brady, Lawrenson and Beglin all fit in 88.

Yeah, remember it well, there was uproar when the 4 match ban was announced, even 2 was harsh. The injury was an awful shame though, would've loved to have seen him get at least one game at a major championships.

I honestly think had we held on against Holland we could have won that tournament even without the 3 players you mention. Holland would have been out, themselves and Russia contested the final and we battered Russia in our gamne against them despite the 1-1 scoreline. McGraths header against Holland and Aldo not getting the rebound, think that moment us burnt onto my brain along with that poxy offside goal they got!

Lionel Ritchie

29/11/2007, 9:59 AM

Why did Jack need to work when he made so much money out of the Ireland job? Think if he went back to management it would have been for another international team rather than a club. I think international management suited him better.

Not strictly true. Jack was at one point on an IR�50,000 "retainer" from the FAI ...So his actual salary was modest enough.
This, it is estimated, he topped up to the tune of half a million PA in endorsement gigs and appearances garnered from his being the 'Big Jack' persona.
I'd say a qualified fair play to him but for the fact that he (mis)managed to go off on so many of these earners when he was supposed to be prepping a squad for qualifiers. Limerick, which largely can't even be discussed here because I can't afford a solicitor, is a case in point. (Anyone from the south Monaghan/north Louth area will have more than a decent idea what I'm talking about as well.) Suffice to say what's already long in the public domain -that Jack was leaving the squad headquarters and putting his son John in charge.

OwlsFan

29/11/2007, 10:16 AM

Yeah, remember it well, there was uproar when the 4 match ban was announced, even 2 was harsh. The injury was an awful shame though, would've loved to have seen him get at least one game at a major championships.

I honestly think had we held on against Holland we could have won that tournament even without the 3 players you mention. Holland would have been out, themselves and Russia contested the final and we battered Russia in our gamne against them despite the 1-1 scoreline. McGraths header against Holland and Aldo not getting the rebound, think that moment us burnt onto my brain along with that poxy offside goal they got!

Every tournament we qualified for, one or more of our best players were unavailable, mostly due to injuries.

I am not sure we could have won Euro 88. The one I think we could have won or done well in was Euro 92. The team was at its peak but failed to qualify by a whisker. Oh, that Houghton miss at Wembley in the last few minutes.

citizenerased

29/11/2007, 10:20 AM

Isnt Jack not working in Harry Ramsdens now, presiding over the famous 'Harrys Challenge'

Drumcondra 69er

29/11/2007, 10:39 AM

Every tournament we qualified for, one or more of our best players were unavailable, mostly due to injuries.

I am not sure we could have won Euro 88. The one I thing we could have won or done well in was Euro 92. The team was at its peak but failed to qualify by a whisker. Oh, that Houghton miss at Wembley in the last few minutes.

Yep, have always thought that myself. Not to mention O'Leary's faffing about with the ball instead of booting it to the stands last 10 minutes away to Poland. We'd have been in the semis in Euro 88, win that and we'd have played Russia in the final, anything could have happened.

stojkovic

29/11/2007, 10:53 AM

Yes Euro92 was our 'golden generation'.

Always felt that had we qualified, we could have won it.

Remember throwing something at the television when that big eared c*nt Lineker scored. I was living in London and had to watch their game.

A few months later I was sitting in Graham Taylor's office at Lancaster Gate and I wanted to defecate it, Bobby Sands style. Would have lost my job though.

fergalr

29/11/2007, 12:53 PM

The one I think we could have won or done well in was Euro 92. The team was at its peak but failed to qualify by a whisker. Oh, that Houghton miss at Wembley in the last few minutes.

Great point. Charlton took us on an upward curve through 88 and 90 and it reached its peak with the 4-5-1 formation towards the end of the 92 qualifying campaign. We battered England, Poland and Turkey away and were just really unlucky to only win one of those three games.

We started going downhill midway through the next campaign and just scraped into the 94 WC. By the the time of the infamous 96 qualifiers the wheels were off the wagon (as alluded to in many previous posts).

My memories of his last game are us chasing Dutch shadows with 4 full backs on the pitch and at the final whistle a bemused Charlton saluting the Irish kop waving a Dutch flag.

as_i_say

29/11/2007, 12:57 PM

Think it was Stoger and not Polster who scored the hattrick against us in Vienna

Drumcondra 69er

29/11/2007, 1:15 PM

Great point. Charlton took us on an upward curve through 88 and 90 and it reached its peak with the 4-5-1 formation towards the end of the 92 qualifying campaign. We battered England, Poland and Turkey away and were just really unlucky to only win one of those three games.

We started going downhill midway through the next campaign and just scraped into the 94 WC. By the the time of the infamous 96 qualifiers the wheels were off the wagon (as alluded to in many previous posts).

My memories of his last game are us chasing Dutch shadows with 4 full backs on the pitch and at the final whistle a bemused Charlton saluting the Irish kop waving a Dutch flag.

In fairness we started the Euro 96 qualifiers very well, 4-0 against the North and we'd also beaten Portugal at home. It was the home draw against teh North that the wheels really started coming off.

And it was an Irish flag, it was just rolled up and the orange section was the only bit showing! :D

Drumcondra 69er

29/11/2007, 1:20 PM

Think it was Stoger and not Polster who scored the hattrick against us in Vienna

True, Polster got 2 at Lansdowne. Think he got 11 that campaign and still wasn't top scorer as Suker got the record that Healy just broke with 12.

Dr. Ogba

29/11/2007, 1:21 PM

I am not sure we could have won Euro 88. The one I think we could have won or done well in was Euro 92. The team was at its peak but failed to qualify by a whisker. Oh, that Houghton miss at Wembley in the last few minutes.

yeah Euro 92 was a real low alright....i remember watching us throw away that 2 goal lead in Poland...its gas that it was unthinkable for an Irish team to do that at the time but its second nature to us now!! :D :cool: :mad:

stojkovic

29/11/2007, 1:32 PM

yeah Euro 92 was a real low alright....i remember watching us throw away that 2 goal lead in Poland...its gas that it was unthinkable for an Irish team to do that at the time but its second nature to us now!! :D :cool: :mad:

Charlton's infamous quote after the game "..a draw is better than a win.."

He was alluding to the fact that Poland had something to play for against England the following month.

Remember back in those days you only played SIX matches not twelve. SO one slip up and you were fcuked. And only one qualified.

We slipped up against the Poles at home (0-0).

Deckydee

29/11/2007, 1:34 PM

Jackie Charlton, Eoin Hand, Johnny Giles Ireland, Mick McCarthy Steve Stuanton, Cascarioino!

I love that song

stojkovic

29/11/2007, 1:46 PM

Jackie Charlton, Eoin Hand, Johnny Giles Ireland, Mick McCarthy Steve Stuanton, Cascarioino!

I love that song

Who's the odd one out.

Be afraid, be very afraid.

paul_oshea

29/11/2007, 1:49 PM

does houghton not come at the end there?! i never knew stephen ireland played then....or was that just the random word thrown in to make it sound good ;)

Lionel Ritchie

29/11/2007, 5:43 PM

In fairness we started the Euro 96 qualifiers very well, 4-0 against the North and we'd also beaten Portugal at home. It was the home draw against teh North that the wheels really started coming off.
:D Chronology is wrong. We drew with NI in March and were possibly lucky to hold on because we didn't press on after the first goal. I still believe a better, leaner, non-hippo-trying-to-fly-resembling goalkeeper than Kelly would've kept Dowies header out too. But that was incidental anyway as the whole team was sitting back.

We then beat Portugal 1-0 in April, the last really good performance of the Charlton era. The wheels came off in late May, early June when we went to Liechtenstein and Limerick.

Drumcondra 69er

29/11/2007, 6:06 PM

Chronology is wrong. We drew with NI in March and were possibly lucky to hold on because we didn't press on after the first goal. I still believe a better, leaner, non-hippo-trying-to-fly-resembling goalkeeper than Kelly would've kept Dowies header out too. But that was incidental anyway as the whole team was sitting back.

We then beat Portugal 1-0 in April, the last really good performance of the Charlton era. The wheels came off in late May, early June when we went to Liechtenstein and Limerick.

Sorry, you're right, was heading to Oz around then, Portugal was my last game of that campaign, never saw Lichtenstein, still haven't seen it to this day, want to keep it that way! Same with the Austria home game.

viagogo

29/11/2007, 7:47 PM

yeah Euro 92 was a real low alright....i remember watching us throw away that 2 goal lead in Poland...its gas that it was unthinkable for an Irish team to do that at the time but its second nature to us now!! :D :cool: :mad:

Wasnt this George Hamiltons fault. Think I remember him saying when Ireland were 3-1 up that there is no way Ireland would leave in two goals followed by "Oh Danger here"

CollegeTillIDie

29/11/2007, 8:38 PM

Every tournament we qualified for, one or more of our best players were unavailable, mostly due to injuries.

......The one I think we could have won or done well in was Euro 92. The team was at its peak but failed to qualify by a whisker. Oh, that Houghton miss at Wembley in the last few minutes.

No Dave O'Leary giving the ball away twice once when we were 3-1 ahead the next time when we were 3-2 ahead, both of which led to Polish goals and a 3-3 away to them was where the REAL damage was done!

pineapple stu

29/11/2007, 9:03 PM

I still believe a better, leaner, non-hippo-trying-to-fly-resembling goalkeeper than Kelly would've kept Dowies header out too.
Bit harsh on Kelly - quality keeper, and that was the first international goal he'd conceded in something like his fifth game for us.

We...just scraped into the 94 WC.
Bit harsh also - we did knock out the reigning European champions, were robbed in Spain and got 12 points from six games against the minnows, which is a lot more impressive than it sounds, especially when you consider we had to travel to three countries very recently out of communism and very difficult places to visit.

sullanefc

29/11/2007, 9:17 PM

Jackie Charlton, Eoin Hand, Johnny Giles Ireland, Mick McCarthy Steve Stuanton, Cascarioino!

I love that song

We're going to start a fire, right. I would love to get my hands on that song. Can't download or buy it anywhere. Any tips??

eekers

29/11/2007, 9:25 PM

Jackie Charlton, Eoin Hand
Johnny Giles, Ireland
Mick McCarthy, Stephen Staunton
Cascarino
Tony Galvin, Niall Quinn
Packie doesn't let em in
North of Ireland
South of Ireland
Only one can go

this has been used before by the fai to appoint managers.

"i cant think of anyone lets have a look at the auld song?"
"mcCarthy is next in line"

"here john will we use the the old song again now that we've sacked kerr, i mean it got us mick and he did alright"
"but stan is next on the song, he's laying cones at walsall and i've promised a world class management team"
"use the song john"
"hello can get the number for walsall football club? no not warsaw, walsall with an 'l'?"

eirebhoy

29/11/2007, 10:28 PM

We're going to start a fire, right. I would love to get my hands on that song. Can't download or buy it anywhere. Any tips??
It's been posted on here a few times. It's on youtube. Just use a program (audacity) to record it to mp3.

irishfan86

30/11/2007, 12:43 AM

I've uploaded the song here for those interested:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Z87PLVW7

eekers

30/11/2007, 1:06 AM

"open invest" is a quality lyric :)

Lionel Ritchie

30/11/2007, 11:12 AM

Bit harsh on Kelly - quality keeper, and that was the first international goal he'd conceded in something like his fifth game for us.

Okay hippo might've been strong ...baby pig maybe? It's said Kelly was an excellent talker and very good at marshalling a back four but he never struck me as a remarkable stopper. Maybe he was very happy at Sheffield United or maybe he'd found his level. I suspect the latter based on the lack of any interest I can remember from premiership/equivalent clubs in a regular international keeper for a (then) top 20 FIFA ranked side.

Stuttgart88

30/11/2007, 11:18 AM

Kelly made a crucial save at 0-0 at home to Estonia, 30 seconds before Kinsella put us ahead. A great stop in a 1-on-1 situation. It might have been "one of those nights" if he hadn't made it.

Lionel Ritchie

30/11/2007, 12:27 PM

Kelly made a crucial save at 0-0 at home to Estonia, 30 seconds before Kinsella put us ahead. A great stop in a 1-on-1 situation. It might have been "one of those nights" if he hadn't made it.

Acknowledged and respect due.

I'll stop putting the boot into him now -save for one of the few non-actionable tales of the Ireland squads stay in Limerick in 1995. Deciding to forego the activities pretty much the rest of the squad had signed up for on a particular evening, Packie Bonner and Alan Kelly went to a local pub for a genuinely quiet pint (I've heard a couple of pubs mentioned in connection with this story ...most frequently Matt The Threshers which is actually quite a distance out of Limerick, but also Finnegans on the Dublin road and also The Stables -U.L. student union bar).

Apparently an auld fellah who regularily frequented the establishment was told or noticed that Packie was in the bar and shuffled over to himself and AK to say hello and "shake the hand of the finest goalkeeper this country's ever had..." but not content that he'd heaped enough praise continued, "..and twice the player that gobsh1te they've in instead of you will ever be" :D

RogerMilla

30/11/2007, 1:26 PM

"open invest" is a quality lyric :)
Opel Invest , no ?

gspain

30/11/2007, 2:32 PM

Acknowledged and respect due.

I'll stop putting the boot into him now -save for one of the few non-actionable tales of the Ireland squads stay in Limerick in 1995. Deciding to forego the activities pretty much the rest of the squad had signed up for on a particular evening, Packie Bonner and Alan Kelly went to a local pub for a genuinely quiet pint (I've heard a couple of pubs mentioned in connection with this story ...most frequently Matt The Threshers which is actually quite a distance out of Limerick, but also Finnegans on the Dublin road and also The Stables -U.L. student union bar).

Apparently an auld fellah who regularily frequented the establishment was told or noticed that Packie was in the bar and shuffled over to himself and AK to say hello and "shake the hand of the finest goalkeeper this country's ever had..." but not content that he'd heaped enough praise continued, "..and twice the player that gobsh1te they've in instead of you will ever be" :D

I've heard tell of the Lock bar. Certainly the incident involving a local gentleman known to the gardai finding his girlfriend and a squad member occurred around the back of Dunnes of Sarsfield st.

There were of course more than one night involved.

stojkovic

30/11/2007, 2:38 PM

Opel Invest , no ?

Yes, OPEL.

Yer man, Arnold O'Byrne, wasnt that him.

pineapple stu

30/11/2007, 5:26 PM

Okay hippo might've been strong ...baby pig maybe? It's said Kelly was an excellent talker and very good at marshalling a back four but he never struck me as a remarkable stopper. Maybe he was very happy at Sheffield United or maybe he'd found his level. I suspect the latter based on the lack of any interest I can remember from premiership/equivalent clubs in a regular international keeper for a (then) top 20 FIFA ranked side.
I remember (a) a couple of quite remarkable saves against Yugoslavia and (b) newspaper reports indicating interest from Barcelona.