Georgia Away - 6th September 2008

[RodgenotPodge]

Hi Folks

I’ve joined in because I’ve seen the chats about the Georgia and Montenegro trips. I’ve spent a bit of time in both countries over the last few years so I’m happy to share some tips etc. It’s a daunting task to get to both games and some of the routes I’ve sign suggested are a challenge to put it mildly!

Two very different places but each with something to offer. I’m sure there are some veterans of the last Georgia trip around but I reckon Montenegro will be a first for many. Tbilisi is a far bigger and more interesting city but does carry some dangers. There is a whiff of the Wild East, with crazy drivers and some heavy-looking dudes dressed in black. You should be OK in a group but there’s a lot of poor and desperate people around and a lone Irish drunk could be at risk. The Georgians also like to make a lot of noise about supporting their team but like most other things they are all bluff and bluster. Still probably not a good idea to sit amongst local supporters if you plan to rev it up.

Montenegro is an unknown footballing quantity and I think local interest will be high for the novelty value alone. They were never too enthusiastic when it was Serbia & Montenegro but having their own team to cheer will be different. Podgorica isn’t very interesting as a city but the people are great (women are stunning) and it has a much more Mediterranean feel.

Getting to Tbilisi – via Istanbul with Turkish is usually the cheapest but it’s a pretty crap connection. My preferred route is through Heathrow with British Mediterranean (part of British Airways) but it is usually more expensive and also the service has been interrupted a few times by rows with the Georgian government. Austrian Airlines fly in too from Vienna but is very dear. Check out Georgian Airways who operate from Frankfurt, Paris and a couple of other places. Its not luxury but the planes are OK (I know the English guy in charge of maintenance.) Most flights into Tbilisi arrive in the middle of the night.

Getting to Podgorica – Dubrovnik is a good option but it’s a 3 hour drive to Podgorica so not really a day trip. Malev through Budapest to Podgorica is my favourite and Budapest could be a good transit point if coming from Tbilisi. Also JAT through London and Belgrade. Montenegrin Airlines operate from Frankfurt, Vienna, Zurich, Paris and Rome. You can’t book on-line but a travel agent should be able to do it. Have a look if anyone flies into Tivat in September. Its mostly a charter airport just past Budva on the coast. Handier than Dubrovnik.

The guys planning to go via Riga and make the last leg by train from Belgrade might want to reconsider. Lots of flights Belgrade-Podgorica and the train is slow and grim.

Accommodation: - Tbilisi has some big hotels (Sheraton, Marriott etc.) but they are dear. Us regulars tend to use guest houses (often just private homes) and they are far better value. A good place is the Beau Monde (has a website). The stadium is pretty central and no more than a few Euro taxi from anywhere.

In Podgorica its mostly smaller hotels like the Kerber (my favourite), Eminent, Europa etc. which are pretty good value. The “best” one is the Hotel Podgorica but its pricy (I suspect the team will stay there). The Crn Gora (Montegrin for Montenegro) is an old style commie era place – interesting but shabby and bleak. The new Best Western seems to be good and is favoured by many. Podgorica is tiny so everything is walking distance. The Stadium is right in town.

Tbilisi has many restaurants and the food is great – try the places along the river. Excellent wine and beer – I prefer Argo but try them all! Someone mentioned the Hangar – which is the only “Sports Bar”. Rebecca is of Irish extraction and a sports nut. When Ireland played there last time, she arranged a private room for the team upstairs next day to watch the Ireland/England rugby match. Fun restaurant just across the street called Sans Soucis. There’s a street with several “Irish” style bars known as Perovskaya Street (it has another official name). Lively bars and good live music most nights. The Nali and Dubliner are two of the best. Good food too.

Podgorica has few proper restaurants but lots of fast food, pizza etc. Good wine and beer here too. Its all around a few streets in the centre – which is pedestrianised after 5pm so it’s a good atmosphere. Some good clubs too (did I mention the women are stunning?)

However maybe the best plan is to stay down at the coast and make the one-hour journey to Podgorica just for the game. Budva is a hotspot – nice beach, lovely old town and lots of hotels that will be glad to get your business in September. You should get a taxi up and back for about 50 (the price might go up that week!). By the way, Montenegro uses the Euro and has loads of ATMs etc. (So does Tbilisi)

I think that’s enough – if anyone has any questions I’ll do my best!

[Newryrep]

RodgenotPodge re Tbilisi

The scots advised to avoid ice and tap water, are there plenty of supermarkets for bottled water for hangovers/survival. I tend to stock up on arrival :) to save any hassle .

[Green Tribe]

cheers for all the extra info. have been on travel forums myself and chatting to locals in both countries. will be posting up some info also. We were planning to train it overnight Belgrade to Podge but we ended up getting a flight after all. We are in the Hotel Kerber in Podge, seems lovely and nice staff. Have arranged to meet some Montenegrins when we arrive, they are looking forward to it.

Stiofain - I would say your hotel would let you check out late in Tbilisi, they are very good that way. I know our hotel is letting us check in when we arrive (03:00) and letting us check out late (about 01:30) The hotel might let you leave your bags until you need to go. If your stuck you can leave your bag at our hotel, we're right off rustaveli avenue, we don't leave til early hours monday morning. Have you booked hotel for the friday night? I will get on the scots forum again and ask when the game was. Will give us an idea. Will try and ask some of the Tbilisi ones too.

[Green Tribe]

RodgenotPodge re Tbilisi

The scots advised to avoid ice and tap water, are there plenty of supermarkets for bottled water for hangovers/survival. I tend to stock up on arrival to save any hassle .

Have you been on tartan forum too :D
Brill info from the scots they've been great. This is the thread they set up for me :o

http://taboard.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=71678&st=0 :D

yeah we were told our hotel doesn't have bottled water and one of the scots drank the tap water after a long hot flight and had "bowel problems" for about 2 weeks.......
No ice or tap water!

[RodgenotPodge]

Both cities have shops everwhere with bottled water - and everything else. I can't imagine a hotel that didn't have any but if you get in at 3 am you may not have much choice.

Just one comment about the Scottish experience - remember they lost and it was easy for the Georgians to be generous in victory. It might not be quite so friendly if they lose.... Don't get me wrong, I've got good Georgian mates and they are fine but a football crowd can be a law unto itself.

One other tip; no matter how good your ticket, get to the ground early - in this part of the world the stewarding is almost non-existent and there is a well established practice of letting kids - and their mates - in for free. If you get there 20 minutes before kickoff, you might find the cops turning people back saying its full and they won't care if you have a ticket!

[RodgenotPodge]

Just a guess, but as Georgia is 3 hours ahea of us, it will be fairly early - in order to get the TV audience in Ireland.

[Greenforever]

Just one comment about the Scottish experience - remember they lost and it was easy for the Georgians to be generous in victory. It might not be quite so friendly if they lose.... Don't get me wrong, I've got good Georgian mates and they are fine but a football crowd can be a law unto itself.

One other tip; no matter how good your ticket, get to the ground early - in this part of the world the stewarding is almost non-existent and there is a well established practice of letting kids - and their mates - in for free. If you get there 20 minutes before kickoff, you might find the cops turning people back saying its full and they won't care if you have a ticket!

Remember we won here last time and no problems with locals, great trip :D

In Moscow a lad in front of us was not let in because he had torn off the stub of his ticket at the stiles, they made him get another one - :D had to pay a "fine" to hang up our flags :D another great trip shame about the result and for the lads attacked outside our hotel on the morning of the game but they were neo natzi thugs from St Petersburg that caused the triouble that morning

[NeilMcD]

Just a guess, but as Georgia is 3 hours ahea of us, it will be fairly early - in order to get the TV audience in Ireland.

Surely is it not the other way around. If the Kick off is 8pm in Georgia that is 5pm in Ireland. I reckon it will be along those lines.

[AidoM]

Would anyone have an idea or be able to make an educated guess as to what time this game is likely to kick off? I'll be flying out in the early am of Sunday morning and i'm just wondering if it'll be worth my while having a room in the hotel on the saturday night. I'm not overly bothered about saving a few quid but if the game kicks off at 8pm or so and i have to leave for the airport around 1am, theres probably not much point.

I contacted the call centre before I booked hotel to ask about booking a room for the Saturday night (we're flying out @ 4 am on the Sunday morning). They said that most hotels would keep luggage for you in the hotel that evening until departing for the airport but they advised to discuss it with the hotel when we arrived. It appears that most flights arrive in the early hours of the morning :eek:and one piece of advice the call centre gave me was to book a room for the night of arrival or otherwise a room might not be available until the following afternoon :(

[Newryrep]

Have you been on tartan forum too :D
No ice or tap water!

yeah, found it before the fixtures came out, hoping to pick up a few tips to get the cheap flights/etc before the masses.

Seen GT registered enquiring about Riga/Tbilisi, figured it was yourself, they mention their SSC video presentation was of great use, wonder is there any chance of seeing it ?

[Newryrep]

Both cities have shops everwhere with bottled water - and everything else. I can't imagine a hotel that didn't have any but if you get in at 3 am you may not have much choice.

cheers RnP, will get the 4 days supplies on thur afternoon

[RodgenotPodge]

Surely is it not the other way around. If the Kick off is 8pm in Georgia that is 5pm in Ireland. I reckon it will be along those lines.

Yes, of course, my mistake:confused:

[Newryrep]

If the Kick off is 8pm in Georgia that is 5pm in Ireland. I reckon it will be along those lines.

I would of thought that any 'Irish' TV company would want a 7 or 8 pm kick off Irish time for max viewers although I recall watching some of Georgia v Scotland before Cyprus game in Croker ?

[stiofain]

Stiofain - I would say your hotel would let you check out late in Tbilisi, they are very good that way. I know our hotel is letting us check in when we arrive (03:00) and letting us check out late (about 01:30) The hotel might let you leave your bags until you need to go. If your stuck you can leave your bag at our hotel, we're right off rustaveli avenue, we don't leave til early hours monday morning. Have you booked hotel for the friday night? I will get on the scots forum again and ask when the game was. Will give us an idea. Will try and ask some of the Tbilisi ones too.

Thanks for that GT, thats very kind of you. I'll send an email to the hotel this afternoon to try and sort something out. I'm leaving London on the Wednesday (arriving on the Thursday). Thought i'd go a day or two early so i can do a tour of the city before the game as i may never be in Georgia again :D I've actuctally booked Thursday to Sunday in the hotel but i'm probably much better off booking Wednesday to Saturday and hoping that they'll allow me to check out late on the Sat.

Newryrep & AidoM - thanks for your advice too.

[stiofain]

I would of thought that any 'Irish' TV company would want a 7 or 8 pm kick off Irish time for max viewers although I recall watching some of Georgia v Scotland before Cyprus game in Croker ?

I'm pretty sure that last time Ireland played Georgia it kicked off at 3pm in this part of the world. I remember that well as i was under 18 at the time and i missed nearly all of the game going from pub to pub in north London trying to find somewhere that would serve me :D

[NeilMcD]

Lads there is no way it will be a 8pm kick of in Ireland as that would mean an 11pm kick of in Georgia. Scotland kicked off 6pm Irish Time last time and was a 5pm kick of time the last time too so it will be a late afternoon early evening kick off in Ireland or an 8pm or 9pm kick of in Georgia.

[RodgenotPodge]

Given the regular electricity problems in Georgia, they might go for a 5 or 6 pm kick-off. A few years ago a game against Russia was abandoned because the lights failed. As usual, there were conspiracy theories about the plug being pulled but Georgia depends on Russia for its energy and the Ruskies have the squeeze on them. That plus clapped out equipment means that the lights go out regularly!

[AidoM]

Is Georgia not 4 hours ahead of here :confused:

[RodgenotPodge]

For years it was 4 hours ahead, then they changed it to 3 (after the "Rose Revolution" in 2004. But they seem to move it around -some years they have daylight saving and others they don't. Don't ask me why.

It could well be 4 hours next September, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was 3 - or 5!

[SuperDub]

Was in tblisi the last time we played and the game started in daylight. I am sure it was 5.30pm kick off. A great city to visit and the locals were really curious about why we were there.

[Sligo Hornet]

Was in tblisi the last time we played and the game started in daylight. I am sure it was 5.30pm kick off. A great city to visit and the locals were really curious about why we were there.

I always ask myself the same question?;)

[mypost]

Given the regular electricity problems in Georgia, they might go for a 5 or 6 pm kick-off. A few years ago a game against Russia was abandoned because the lights failed.

It's 4 hours ahead in September, and 5 during winter time, so it will be about a 2pm ko here, like last time. (6pm local).

Thank God they don't do 3pm Saturday ko's there, our players would melt in that heat.

[Newryrep]

http://www.aboutgeorgia.net/

[Beavis]

Finally finished booking my ridiculous trip to Georgia/Montenegro.
Route as follows:
Dublin - Basel(Ryanair) - Istanbul(Easyjet) - Kars[Eastern Turkey] (sleeper train) - Batumi(minibuses) - Tbilisi(train) - Batumi(train) - Istanbul(Turkish Airlines) - Nis(train) - Podgorica (train)

Everything really needs to go to plan in order to make the games but fook it should be interesting.
Only cost €180 for flights, bargain!:D

[aidz1]

Finally finished booking my ridiculous trip to Georgia/Montenegro.
Route as follows:
Dublin - Basel(Ryanair) - Istanbul(Easyjet) - Kars[Eastern Turkey] (sleeper train) - Batumi(minibuses) - Tbilisi(train) - Batumi(train) - Istanbul(Turkish Airlines) - Nis(train) - Podgorica (train)

Everything really needs to go to plan in order to make the games but fook it should be interesting.
Only cost €180 for flights, bargain!:D

are you gonna come home ??? :D

[stiofain]

Finally finished booking my ridiculous trip to Georgia/Montenegro.
Route as follows:
Dublin - Basel(Ryanair) - Istanbul(Easyjet) - Kars[Eastern Turkey] (sleeper train) - Batumi(minibuses) - Tbilisi(train) - Batumi(train) - Istanbul(Turkish Airlines) - Nis(train) - Podgorica (train)

Everything really needs to go to plan in order to make the games but fook it should be interesting.
Only cost €180 for flights, bargain!:D

Fair play mate, sounds like an adventure!

[soylent green]

I see one travel agent is advertising trips for Georgia and seperately for Montenegro. Is there any travel agent doing a combined trip (besides pilgrams abroad) for us lazy folk?

[galah]

Finally finished booking my ridiculous trip to Georgia/Montenegro.
Route as follows:
Dublin - Basel(Ryanair) - Istanbul(Easyjet) - Kars[Eastern Turkey] (sleeper train) - Batumi(minibuses) - Tbilisi(train) - Batumi(train) - Istanbul(Turkish Airlines) - Nis(train) - Podgorica (train)

Everything really needs to go to plan in order to make the games but fook it should be interesting.
Only cost €180 for flights, bargain!:D

have booked to go by riga myslef on way out ...can you give me more details on gettin from there to Podgorica Beavis ...when train leaves tbilisi and when get into Podgorica
Cheers!

[Beavis]

have booked to go by riga myslef on way out ...can you give me more details on gettin from there to Podgorica Beavis ...when train leaves tbilisi and when get into Podgorica
Cheers!

No prob

Tbilisi Central 10.00(07/09)/19.40/21.10
Batumi 17.55/05.55(08/09)/07.40

Batumi Airport 11.15 08/09
Istanbul Ataturk Airport 12.25 08/09
- Turkish Airlines (total €82.50)

Istanbul (Sirkeci station) 22.00 08/09
Edirne 02.34 09/09
Kapikule 02.54 09/09
Svilengrad 05.05 09/09
Plovdiv 09.11 09/09
Sofia 11.40 09/09
Nis 16.24 09/09[
(tickets can't be purchased online-final destination is Belgrade)

Nis 19.00 09/09
Pozega 01.10 10/09
(change trains here)
Pozega 01.47 10/09
Podgorica 07.14 10/09


are you gonna come home ???
Ar se I forgot bout that. I'll have left work so in no rush,maybe ferry to Italy and mosie from there:)

[Kingdom]

No prob

Tbilisi Central 10.00(07/09)/19.40/21.10
Batumi 17.55/05.55(08/09)/07.40

Batumi Airport 11.15 08/09
Istanbul Ataturk Airport 12.25 08/09
- Turkish Airlines (total €82.50)

Istanbul (Sirkeci station) 22.00 08/09
Edirne 02.34 09/09
Kapikule 02.54 09/09
Svilengrad 05.05 09/09
Plovdiv 09.11 09/09
Sofia 11.40 09/09
Nis 16.24 09/09[
(tickets can't be purchased online-final destination is Belgrade)

Nis 19.00 09/09
Pozega 01.10 10/09
(change trains here)
Pozega 01.47 10/09
Podgorica 07.14 10/09



Beavis any idea how much for train tickets?

Ps bet you stink by the time of kick off.:D

[Beavis]

Beavis any idea how much for train tickets?


Tbilisi - Batumi
Second Class 23 Lari (€10)
First Class 40 Lari (€17.50)

Price for Istanbul-Belgrade
43 euros one-way 2nd class, 65 euros one-way 1st class.

Add a sleeper supplement to this, about 12 euros for a bed in 3-bed compartment (with 2nd class fare) or 20 euros for a bed in 2-bed compartment (with 1st class fare) or 40 euros for sole occupancy of a single bed compartment (with 1st class fare).

I'll be going 2nd class sleeper, Nis is the stop before Belgrad so may be a bit cheaper lets say €50 total.

Havent been able to get the exact price for Nis-Podgorica but Nis-Bar (further on than Podgorica) is less than €15 for a sleeper car.

I'll estimate a total of about €85-€90 if you go cheapo, no accomodation needed either if you can manage get enough kip on the trains.


Ps bet you stink by the time of kick off.:D

Yes I’d advise anyone to avoid the unshaven bloke with the flies swarming overhead, he may be drunk and irritable and have lost all concept of time and clothing:D

[Kingdom]

Tbilisi - Batumi
Second Class 23 Lari (€10)
First Class 40 Lari (€17.50)

Price for Istanbul-Belgrade
43 euros one-way 2nd class, 65 euros one-way 1st class.

Add a sleeper supplement to this, about 12 euros for a bed in 3-bed compartment (with 2nd class fare) or 20 euros for a bed in 2-bed compartment (with 1st class fare) or 40 euros for sole occupancy of a single bed compartment (with 1st class fare).

I'll be going 2nd class sleeper, Nis is the stop before Belgrad so may be a bit cheaper lets say €50 total.

Havent been able to get the exact price for Nis-Podgorica but Nis-Bar (further on than Podgorica) is less than €15 for a sleeper car.

I'll estimate a total of about €85-€90 if you go cheapo, no accomodation needed either if you can manage get enough kip on the trains.



Yes I’d advise anyone to avoid the unshaven bloke with the flies swarming overhead, he may be drunk and irritable and have lost all concept of time and clothing:D

Good stuff, however from the place you're coming from I reckon there will be a few unshaven smelly blokes. We'll have to keep an eye out for the palest one.

[Green Tribe]

I see one travel agent is advertising trips for Georgia and seperately for Montenegro. Is there any travel agent doing a combined trip (besides pilgrams abroad) for us lazy folk?


not that i know of, and if they are, they'll be charging loads...

[zenokelly]

I see one travel agent is advertising trips for Georgia and seperately for Montenegro. Is there any travel agent doing a combined trip (besides pilgrams abroad) for us lazy folk?

I think I saw an ad from Abbey Travel the other day doing the double.

[Kingdom]

I think I saw an ad from Abbey Travel the other day doing the double.

About €1600 is what they advised. Still not finalised yet. Anyone use them before.

[galah]

No prob

Tbilisi Central 10.00(07/09)/19.40/21.10
Batumi 17.55/05.55(08/09)/07.40

Batumi Airport 11.15 08/09
Istanbul Ataturk Airport 12.25 08/09
- Turkish Airlines (total €82.50)

Istanbul (Sirkeci station) 22.00 08/09
Edirne 02.34 09/09
Kapikule 02.54 09/09
Svilengrad 05.05 09/09
Plovdiv 09.11 09/09
Sofia 11.40 09/09
Nis 16.24 09/09[
(tickets can't be purchased online-final destination is Belgrade)

Nis 19.00 09/09
Pozega 01.10 10/09
(change trains here)
Pozega 01.47 10/09
Podgorica 07.14 10/09


Ar se I forgot bout that. I'll have left work so in no rush,maybe ferry to Italy and mosie from there:)

Cheers lad! looks like they could be a convoy of us doing that route ...as for the trip home ....have u seen the women out that way ....might be tempted to stay!

[citizenerased]

About €1600 is what they advised. Still not finalised yet. Anyone use them before.
yeah, keep away, pile of shiite rip off merchants..you will be staying in hotels 100km outside of the cities and doing about 20 flight transfers..pack of jokers + lots of dublin chavs travel with them

[Kingdom]

yeah, keep away, pile of shiite rip off merchants..you will be staying in hotels 100km outside of the cities and doing about 20 flight transfers..pack of jokers + lots of dublin chavs travel with them

Thanks for the advice Citizen. Always good to know.

[RodgenotPodge]

I've sort of lost track of the various itineraries doing the rounds. Some of them are ambitious (a polite word for verging on nuts). Trains and Planes in this part of the world are notoriously unreliable. The airlines are getting a bit better but internal flights on local airlines are very hit and miss. Trains are eevn worse; I took the Tbilisi -Batumi sleeper once. I didn't sleep because it keep shuddering to a stop and rattled in the meantime. I also arrived about 4 hours late, although that was in the days when Batumi was in a self-declared indpendent region of Georgia and they pretended to have immigration and customs (they left you alone for a small fee) but it still took about 2 hours for them to frisk all the passengers.

My advice is to trade up to First Class at least; the extra few Euro will look like a very good investment. Did you check the Tbilisi-Batumi flights? Much better.

The train from\Istanbul to Ns should be a classic and again get the best accomodation posible.

The connection times allow a good margin which is very wise of you. Nis is where they make Montenegro's best beer so you wll have something to do.

[kevincronin2000]

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=1454826

[Beavis]

I've sort of lost track of the various itineraries doing the rounds. Some of them are ambitious (a polite word for verging on nuts). Trains and Planes in this part of the world are notoriously unreliable. The airlines are getting a bit better but internal flights on local airlines are very hit and miss. Trains are eevn worse; I took the Tbilisi -Batumi sleeper once. I didn't sleep because it keep shuddering to a stop and rattled in the meantime. I also arrived about 4 hours late, although that was in the days when Batumi was in a self-declared indpendent region of Georgia and they pretended to have immigration and customs (they left you alone for a small fee) but it still took about 2 hours for them to frisk all the passengers.

My advice is to trade up to First Class at least; the extra few Euro will look like a very good investment. Did you check the Tbilisi-Batumi flights? Much better.

The train from\Istanbul to Ns should be a classic and again get the best accomodation posible.

The connection times allow a good margin which is very wise of you. Nis is where they make Montenegro's best beer so you wll have something to do.
Nice 1 for the info. I do intend to see a bit of each of the cities between the trains and shall certainly avail of a beer or two in Nis.

Couple of questions seeing as you seem to have some experience of the area.
You say its advisable to trade up to first class, is 2nd class unbearable?is the problem with comfort or security?
Is there a real threat of attack on trains and around train stations given that I'll be traveling alone and Georgians/Turks/etc wont understand that I'm a Dub and naturally not to be messed with;)

The only part of the trip with any ambiguity is between Kars, where I arrive at 22.00 on the Thursday, hoping to head immediately towards Batumi, where I need to be preferably for 8.00 but can be later.Is there any problem getting minibuses through the night in Eastern Turkey or is this journey unfeasible at this hour, and I presume there is no problem crossing the border at any hour?

Any help would be appreciated because I havent yet been able to source this info elsewhere on tinter.

[Green Tribe]

beavis i'll post your query up on the tartan forum as they travelled there last oct, they might have an idea.... :D Will get back to ya

[Beavis]

beavis i'll post your query up on the tartan forum as they travelled there last oct, they might have an idea.... :D Will get back to ya

You'd do that for me:o

Cheers, I'll probably post on Lonely Planet aswell, usually someone there can help.

[RodgenotPodge]

First Class is for comfort and privacy. The small (for us) price difference is a lot for locals so the extra is well worth it. Safety shouldn't be an issue; locals will be falling over each other to show off their English and help. Just don't accept any invites to visit their cousin's shop but that's just to avoid rip-off.

Turkey travels by bus and mostly at night. Very well organised and again, a few bob extra makes a difference. Be careful to check if your bus is smoking or non-smoking.

What's taking you to Kars? Its not on the way from Tbilisi to Batumi - or anywhere else.

The border at Batumi is a busy freight route and I'd be surprised if it closed at night but check with Lonely Planet or the like.

[Green Tribe]

You'd do that for me:o

Cheers, I'll probably post on Lonely Planet aswell, usually someone there can help.

Actually Virtual Tourist is good too, post gone up on tartan army forum :D

[Green Tribe]

Beavis, check out the tartan army thread, few replies already (my post is at the bottom of page 4), expect more replies over the next few days when more people notice it....

http://taboard.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=71678&st=45

[Beavis]

What's taking you to Kars? Its not on the way from Tbilisi to Batumi - or anywhere else.

.

Thanks for the help.
Kars is the last stop on the train to eastern Turkey and the closest train station to Batumi, even if its still nearly 150 miles. I'd prefer train to bus, and by all the accounts I've read the scenery along the train line after Ankara, along the Euphrates, is spectacular.



Beavis, check out the tartan army thread, few replies already (my post is at the bottom of page 4), expect more replies over the next few days when more people notice it...


Thats a great help GT. It seems from RodgenotPodge's and the Tartan Army's experience, safety won't be an issue, providing suitable vigilance.:)

[RodgenotPodge]

OK; I hadn't realised yu were going to Tbilisi that way also (I miust have confused you with someone who is flying via Riga). That is one hell of a journey you have given yourself; my main advice is to use the biggest and best coach company you can find. The good ones are excellent but the cheaper ones are miserable and dangerous - the roads in that part of Turkey are pretty scary and the driving in Turkey (and Georgia) is wild.

[Green Tribe]

Have heard the taxi drivers in Georgia are mental....!

[Sligo Hornet]

Have heard the taxi drivers in Georgia are mental....!

No.....who's it by?;)