Terry Venables

[Theskinloyal]

Sacked along with McClaren...really hope he doesn't get the Ireland job. He's a free agent, I'd say that'll tempt the FAI

[CollegeTillIDie]

If the FAI wanted someone to maybe brainstorm with about developing something for the future in terms of coaching academies and the like, El TEl as a consultant for something like that I'd have no problem with. His best days on the bench are behind him.
If TV 3 signed him as a pundit for the games they will be covering next year, no problem with that either. He'd have been a good appointment when he was sacked from the English job around 11 years ago, but that ship has sailed...

[Dodge]

He won't get it because of Delaney's hatred of Pats

BTW moved it into the Ireland section

[Drumcondra 69er]

Already posted this on another thread but this is all anyone needs to know about Very Terribles,

Hell Tell
CRYSTAL PALACE 1976-80

Promoted from his coaching role at Crystal Palace in 1976, Terence
Frederick Venables took managerial charge from Malcolm Allison and
saw his Eagles soar from Third Division to First in three dizzy
seasons. With success built on Allison's brave youth policy, sages
such as Jeff Powell dubbed Palace the 'Team of the Eighties'.

But Jeff and his mates were too easily pleased, frankly, for
although Palace topped the First Division the following season, the
leaves were not yet off the trees, and by the season's end,
mid-table obscurity was the best Venables could muster. With that, a
younger, leaner, less tikka-tinged El Tel took his sheepskin coat
and burgeoning reputation off to west London, leaving Palace in
disarray.

QPR 1980-84

As Palace slipped back down to the Second, Tel kept himself buoyant
by winning promotion to the First Division (after three seasons) and
taking the Rs to the 1982 FA Cup final (one of the most intensely
irritating of all time; 210 minutes of abject tedium with Glenn
Hoddle emerging as the hero).


Taking a small club up - and to Wembley - put him right up there
with greats of the game like Graham Taylor (although unlike Watford,
QPR never became league runners-up under Tel's tutelage). In fact,
you can't even compare Tel's achievements at this level to those of
Southampton's Lawrie McMenemy, who not only matched Taylor's
achievements but won the Cup as well.


Can't compare to Lawrie McMenemy: now there's a damning phrase if
ever there was one.

BARCELONA 1984-87

Tel's amazing feats in west London caught the attention of Barcelona
president Josep Lluis Nunez, who was in no way looking for a cheap
option to replace Cesar Luis Menotti. On the face of it, Tel did
reasonably well: his team won a weak Spanish league in his first
season, and made the last two of a ****-poor post-Heysel European
Cup field in his second.

But his decision-making was more often than not found wanting. He
chose to sign Steve Archibald ahead of Hugo Sanchez, a man who would
later become a La Liga legend at Real Madrid. He played a patently
unfit Archibald in Barca's abject European Cup final defeat at the
hands of Steaua Bucharest. And he didn't listen to his staff when
they pleaded with him to rebuild his humiliated team around the
sublime skills of Ruud Gullit and Marco van Basten, choosing instead
to sign Gary Lineker (poach!) and Mark Hughes (hoof!).

By the end of Tel's reign, Barca were being trashed out of sight
home and away by Dundee United, while Milan's Dutch contingent were
about to swagger all over Europe. A great continental manager
indeed.
TOTTENHAM 1987-91

Let's put aside the 1991 FA Cup. For a start, Forest should have
walked the final; and in any case, Tottenham's whole run was down to
the supernatural feats of one rotund Geordie (and one hell of a
lucky draw).

The rest of it? Well, there's all that faffing around in the world
of business. And boy, could Tel faff. If he wasn't trying to wedge
his chubby legs and feet under the White Hart Lane boardroom table,
he was spending increasing amounts of time looking after his
nightclub investments. And singing bad songs. While being discussed
in depth on Panorama.

It all came to a head when Alan Sugar tired of Tel's meddling and
ousted him - but let's not use that to deflect attention from his
on-the-pitch record. Venables was never able to compensate for the
loss of key players. Gazza, Chris Waddle, Richard Gough and Neil
Ruddock were replaced with sub-standard fare, so Spurs under
Venables drifted aimlessly in mid-table. The excuse was, of course,
that he had no money to spend. One question: isn't this guy supposed
to be England's best coach?

ENGLAND 1994-96

During the first two years of Tel's stewardship, England played some
of the most mind-numbing football of all time. Friendlies against
Denmark, Nigeria, Romania, Norway, Uruguay, Sweden, Colombia,
Bulgaria, Croa... you've slipped into a light coma, haven't you?

England's Euro 96 team was not a good one. The hosts could only
honestly claim to have bettered Holland, a team rife with internal
racial conflict. An unlucky Scotland were only undone by a moment of
genius, as Paul Gascoigne turned up to salvage Tel's reputation once
again; the Swiss and Spanish both deserved to win.

England then played above themselves in their final game before
going out bravely. This makes Tel nothing special; they always do
this. Although interestingly, the only England manager in recent
times NOT to preside over a brave departure from a major
championship is Sven-Goran Eriksson, another man with a reputation
disproportionate to his ... ah, but that's another story.

PORTSMOUTH 1996-97

Brought in as a consultant to revive ailing Portsmouth in August
1996, Venables treated himself to a 51% stake in the club for a
solitary pound and took the chairman's reigns. All the while
attempting to steer Australia to the 1998 World Cup finals in a
part-time managerial role.

After less than a year at the club, having struggled to attract the
investment he hoped for to Fratton Park, El Tel walked away, after a
bitter wrangle, with around £250,000 for his shareholding. He'd
reportedly been holding out for £500,000, with Pompey bottom of the
First Division and losing £150,000 a month.

Before the compromise was reached, Portsmouth's ever-unpopular
former chairman Martin Gregory summed it up best: "The time is right
for Venables to go. He should walk away. I realise I am not the most
popular person in Portsmouth but things were never this bad."

AUSTRALIA 1996-97

Prior to their elimination from the 2002 World Cup, Terry Venables
was responsible for the darkest hour in Australia's football
history. Granted, that's really not saying very much, and from a
Pom's point of view, is really no bad thing either.

But having won their first 12 games with Venables as manager, the
Socceroos ripped through their Oceana group and into a two-leg
play-off with mighty Iran. The Aussies, boasting a team stuffed with
European-based players, looked to be heading to their first World
Cup since 1974, particularly after a 1-1 draw in Tehran. And you'd
have bet your fancy west-end nightspot on them heading to France
when they found themselves two goals up with just 10 minutes of the
decider remaining.

But if you had, you'd be in the market for a new nightspot, as two
late Iran strikes saw them through on away goals. To this very day,
El Tel struggles to explain what went wrong.

CRYSTAL PALACE 1998-99

Never go back, they say, and on this occasion, they were spot on.
Perhaps Venables thought he had unfinished business at Palace. Then
again, call us cynical, but maybe he had another less romantic
incentive for returning. Perhaps it was the £750,000 net contract he
was given, more than Alex Ferguson or Arsene Wenger were earning at
that time. No wonder Venables crowed: "Palace was my first club as
manager and now I think it could be my last."

But by the time of his first Palace game - an InterToto Cup match
against Samsunspor - El Tel was elsewhere, having taken the evening
off, claiming to be worn out from his television work during the
World Cup. Trouble was clearly brewing, and within six months, after
having voiced concerns that insufficient funds were being made
available (and with a reported clause in his contract, giving him 2%
of every transfer sale), Venables had stepped down to become a
"consultant".

It was only fair that he left with another sizeable pay-off. It's
difficult to imagine a more sorry episode than Venables' Portsmouth
affair, but this was it.

MIDDLESBROUGH 2000-01

With the good ship Middlesbrough heading for the rocks with Bryan
Robson at the wheel, Boro chairman and bankroller Steve Gibson came
over all sweaty at the prospect of slipping out of the Premiership
and losing several million pounds in the process.

Sensing the importance of tactics in the modern game, Gibson asked
Venables to help out alongside Robson, a variation on their England
partnership of the mid-1990s. In truth, it was Venables who called
the shots, and steered Boro to eight wins in 25 matches and clear of
relegation. He became a saviour on Teeside, though in effect, all
he'd really proved was that he was a better manager than Bryan
Robson - a trick even Phil Neal may have pulled off.

Having proved to his doubters that he'd not lost the old magic, Tel
declined a full-time contract at Boro for the comfort of a seat next
to Des Lynam.

LEEDS 2002-03

Took a top 5 squad in to relegation trouble by Christmas playing
Harry Kewell as an out and out striker, Mark Viduka in the hole,
Erik Bakke as a holding midfielder while ignoring David Batty and
driving Ollie Dacourt to Italy. Sold Robbie Keane to make way for
Nick Barmby. Bought Paul Okon.

Just like at Palace three years' earlier, Tel missed his first game
in charge of Leeds. What was the problem? He was filming for the
BBC's Holiday programme. Some things never change.

[Stuttgart88]

Can someone sent that to the FAI & The Sunday Indo? Pleeeease.

Can we start a petition "NO TO VENABLES" ?

[Drumcondra 69er]

Can someone sent that to the FAI & The Sunday Indo? Pleeeease.

Can we start a petition "NO TO VENABLES" ?

phyland@independent.ie isn't it?

Think the indo journalists e mails are shown in the herald anyway, I'd assume they all follow the firstlettersurname@independent.ie template.

Bombard his mailbox, can't do it from work but been meaning to do it from home so will do later!

Dion Fanning is dionfanning@gmail.com

Find Another Idiot: info@fai.ie

[Dodge]

BTW the fact that the Indo are pushing him means that its already a done deal. I'd like to take this opputunity to say hello to Gerry McDermott.

Hello Gerry! Enjoying John's hand up your arse? Glad to see you're still mates with Dion!

Despicable

[youngirish]

If Jewell, Houillier or Hodgson are interested then I'd pass on Venables whos best days are behind him. However I'd take him in an instant over Brady or Souness.

[Billsthoughts]

BTW the fact that the Indo are pushing him means that its already a done deal. I'd like to take this opputunity to say hello to Gerry McDermott.

Hello Gerry! Enjoying John's hand up your arse? Glad to see you're still mates with Dion!

Despicable

:eek:

think dion was in the Veronica Guerin film last nite.......I deffo seen the Aonghas Fanning character breast feeding a child...

[Stuttgart88]

Seemingly Giles gave El Tel a qualified endorsement on Newstalk. :eek:

[Noelys Guitar]

Johnny Giles has confirmed on Newstalk that Venables will be a candidate for the job. He said that like any manager who has managed over a long period he will have had good and bad times. I am not against Venables taking over. I backed him the last time. Would not be my first choice but would prefer him over many of the other candidates mentioned.

[Dodge]

Seemingly Giles gave El Tel a qualified endorsement on Newstalk. :eek:

Anybody know what Irish newspaper Giles writes for?

[OwlsFan]

The best he could do is get England to a semi-final on their own patch. I would expect any reasonable manager to do that with us if all our games were played in Dublin.

He's past his sell by date. Played 5 in midfield last night when that very rarely works for an English/Irish team. Please God no. I'd almost prefer Dunphy (may be not ;)).

[eirebhoy]

It's worrying me that Giles (and therefore Dunphy) look be have a say in who the next manager is.


Anybody know what Irish newspaper Giles writes for?
The Herald. Dunphy's in the star and Brady in the Tribune.

[paul_oshea]

lads email D'ers profile thingie.

[OwlsFan]

Dunphy writes for the Star: he's got the right audience there ok :rolleyes:

I don't think the RTE triumvirate will choose the next manager. The FAI panel will with our 3 media "experts" making noises as to whom should be appointed and then castigating the FAI if their man (Jewell) isn't chosen.

[geysir]

Hopefully it's just protocol. Can't say out loud to a potential candidate you're useless we wont be talking to you, or can you?

The Sunday Indo printed an article written by James Lawton praising Venables suitability for the Irish job.

[Noelys Guitar]

Giles has championed Venables as a good manager for years. Remember reading many articles he wrote in the Express about Venables. Are some on here suggesting that T.O'Reilly is pushing Johnny to pick Venables? Come on FFS. Anyway I don't believe Venables will get the green light from Delaney or the FAI (have that on good authorithy).

[Dodge]

Are some on here suggesting that T.O'Reilly is pushing Johnny to pick Venables? Come on FFS. Anyway I don't believe Venables will get the green light from Delaney or the FAI (have that on good authorithy).

Nobody is suggesting that. We're suggesting somebody is using the Indo group to push their man through. Just like the Indo group played such a huge role in getting Kerr out

And eirebhoy the Giles question was rhetorical

[Drumcondra 69er]

It's worrying me that Giles (and therefore Dunphy) look be have a say in who the next manager is.


The Herald. Dunphy's in the star and Brady in the Tribune.

Who publishes the star?? Giles writing for Independent Newspapers, the plot thickens.....;)

[geysir]

RTE news at 1, one of the headlines,
"Will England's difficulties become Ireland's opportunity"?

[jbyrne]

Giles has championed Venables as a good manager for years. Remember reading many articles he wrote in the Express about Venables. Are some on here suggesting that T.O'Reilly is pushing Johnny to pick Venables? Come on FFS. Anyway I don't believe Venables will get the green light from Delaney or the FAI (have that on good authorithy).

maybe i am alone but some of what giles says is nonsense. i am sure i wouldnt qualify for the FAIs management consultancy panel but even i know that venebles would be a complete and absolute disaster for us

[Stuttgart88]

RTE news at 1, one of the headlines,
"Will England's difficulties become Ireland's opportunity"?

Somebody hack in to RTE and change it. Whoever edits their football contribution is an idiot. England first, Ireland second is their apparent motto.

I would feel betrayed if Venables is given the job. He stands for everything I hate in the game and for him to be in charge of the team I love would drive me to despair.

Neil McD & co have done a good job on me - Hodgson by a country mile over Venables.

[Wolfie]

Sacked along with McClaren...really hope he doesn't get the Ireland job. He's a free agent, I'd say that'll tempt the FAI

Tel the saviour of Irish football? He's yesterdays man - and that's being kind.

I'd have major reservations in appointing someone who was even remotely linked with that England set up.

When he was England Manager in the 90's, I always thought he concerned himself far too much with "Christmas Tree" formations etc etc.

Our lot need a simple and established approach as previous attempts at alternative formations have been a disaster.

He'd be great at the Karaoke though.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Correct e mail address for hyland is phyland@independent.ie.

Other journalists seem to have the same address template, a few hundred anti Venables e mails would be a start!

[Stuttgart88]

Hmmm.

Hyland's mailbox is full and the same format doesn't work for Fanning.

What's Sadlier's e-mail? He uses a hotmail account.

[eirebhoy]

dionfanning@gmail.com

You'd usually get a reply from him too.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Hmmm.

Hyland's mailbox is full and the same format doesn't work for Fanning.

What's Sadlier's e-mail? He uses a hotmail account.

Start mailing the GAA heads and ask them to pass a message on to Hyland! That'll really **** them off anyway!

froche@independendent.ie is one isn't he!

Think Newstalk aren't too happy with Venables being linked, few mails to Off the Ball might get a mention...

[Stuttgart88]

Let's see.

[NeilMcD]

Stuttgart if I could persuade you that Venables is the man for the job I would have some talent !!!!

But like you I dont want him to get the job.

[paul_oshea]

lads can we create a list of all the emails at the start of the thread or something or as a sticky on each page of this thread so that anyone who looks can email and advise against this?

BTW, i really didnt want to enter this thread or reply incase "the peoples" are watching and see the amount of views/replies and think its an indicator of how much people rate hIM!!!!! But they dont know how foot.ie goes completely off topic - not so much in this case!

[WembleyGreen]

We need Venables like we need a hole in the head! The guy is an over-rated out dated bling plated tool! As a Leeds fan I have no time for him and as manager of Ireland! Doesn't bear thinking about. Even a shower of useless tossers like the FAI couldn't, wouldn't be stoopid enough to appoint a '****'e'ney dell-boy spiv' like Venables. Would they?

[jmurphyc]

The FAI surely have to realise that they simply CANNOT get the wrong man for the job this time otherwise they'd be in a very dangerous position if the next campaign goes badly. If they try to find out the fan's opinions on whether Venables should get the job (not sure how they would go about doing this) then they'd realise that there would be outrage if he was appointed.

If however they choose someone who is perceived to be the right guy and it goes badly then they won't nearly be as culpable. Besides, if they're not good enough for England, why would they be good enough for us? Hopefully this thought dawns on the FAI and some of the people advocating appointing him.

[EalingGreen]

Whilst I have been a bit of a fan of El Tel since his time at Spurs, he is such a complex and contradictory character that I really can't make up my mind whether he would make a good ROI manager or not - I suspect he might, but then again....?

One thing I would point out, however, is that for all his other faults, which have caused him to fall out with loads of people, I don't recall any of his former players - even the ones he dropped or transferred etc - ever questioning his abilities as a coach and tactician.

In fact, to a man they praise him for this, which (imo) is quite remarkable, especially since he has coached players at just about every level, in more than one country.

[paul_oshea]

as a coach though EG......

Btw hard luck, even though it didnt come down to yesterdays game in the end!

[Noelys Guitar]

Whilst I have been a bit of a fan of El Tel since his time at Spurs, he is such a complex and contradictory character that I really can't make up my mind whether he would make a good ROI manager or not - I suspect he might, but then again....?

One thing I would point out, however, is that for all his other faults, which have caused him to fall out with loads of people, I don't recall any of his former players - even the ones he dropped or transferred etc - ever questioning his abilities as a coach and tactician.

In fact, to a man they praise him for this, which (imo) is quite remarkable, especially since he has coached players at just about every level, in more than one country.

You can include Dunne, Harte and Hunt in that list who have gone public in their admiration of Venables as a coach. The "majority" wanted Kerr as manager. Including the scenes of hooping and hollering from journos when Kerr was appointed.

[Drumcondra 69er]

lads can we create a list of all the emails at the start of the thread or something or as a sticky on each page of this thread so that anyone who looks can email and advise against this?

BTW, i really didnt want to enter this thread or reply incase "the peoples" are watching and see the amount of views/replies and think its an indicator of how much people rate hIM!!!!! But they dont know how foot.ie goes completely off topic - not so much in this case!

Have added Fanning's e mail and the Find Another Idiot contact e mail to my original post, need to get the thread starter or admin to add them to the original post or as a sticky.

I agree with jmurphyc, public opinion should be made known in this case and I don't know any fans who think Hell Tell would be a decent appointment.

EG, would you take him if Worthington leaves? The man is a spoofer, look at his record, his reputation is built by the media. 8 wins out of what 25 at Boro with a team that had cost millions upon millions and that was considered a roaring success. Madness. Footballers aren't the brightest or the most honest either, how often to they ever badmouth a manager after he's sacked? They just trot out the same platitudes time after time. Players may have enjoyed playing under Venables but fook all of them actually won anything.

[carloz]

For a change we have a decent list of managers that most of us would be quite happy to get ie Jewell, Houllier, Jol and Hodgson. Why in gods name this hasbeens name is coming up I dont know. Hardly anyone in Ireland would want him because we know all about him. The thing is I know he would be exactly the kind of guy Delaney would love. he would be a complete yes man and he looks every bit as smarmy as Delaney. We have a chance to get this appointment right for a change but by appointing this muppet the FAI will just show themselves to be the ridiculous organization we all think they are. NOBODY WANTS VENABLES, its as simple as that. Personally i will burn every irish shirt and completly give up on the Ireland team if he is hired. I am incredibly proud to be Irish and have followed the team through thick and thin but there is only so much a person can take. Hiring venables would be the straw that breaks this camels back

[eekers]

i was saying this last night when the majority of everyonoe here were cheering croatia.
we're ****ed now
el tel and robbie keane at the karaoke

also his teams ship goals, all he cares about are offensive tactics.

and he he belongs to the 'good old little ireland arent they doing well' school. he'll view this job as a jolly

[EalingGreen]

Btw hard luck, even though it didnt come down to yesterdays game in the end!

Cheers. In truth, even had Latvia somehow pulled off an unlikely win, we were never in with a shout against a Spanish team which, in its last 82 qualifying matches (WC and Euros, home and away), has lost just 5 times! (Or 4 in 81, if you exclude NI's previous game against them;))

But despite being totally outplayed for the entire match and failing to create a decent goalscoring chance ourselves, I'm still very encouraged that what is still a young NI team was experienced and resolute enough not to crumble and let in a bagful, as would have happened in the past.

In fact, other than three well-worked chances close in (all missed), the Spaniards were mostly reduced to shooting from outside the box, none of which troubled Taylor, until a cruel deflection led to the only goal.

[Noelys Guitar]

Rightly Giles and whoever will ignore what the fans want and will pick who they believe will get us to the next wrold cup finals. Which is the way it should be. I hate O'Leary but if he is selected manager then so be it. I certainly won't be burning my Ireland shirt. And I would say I have been to more Ireland game than most of this board. And I'm not going to stop now. I can remember the union jack Charlton stuff at his first game in Landsdowne ( a minority)so being the fans choice means nothing.

[Stuttgart88]

You can include Dunne, Harte and Hunt in that list who have gone public in their admiration of Venables as a coach. The "majority" wanted Kerr as manager. Including the scenes of hooping and hollering from journos when Kerr was appointed.
But when have they played for him?

EG, one guy whose opinion of Venables is very high and whose opinion I distrust the most is Lineker. A bit like the famous Mrs Merton question you could ask him "Gary, what makes the man who made you a millionaire such a great coach?".

Shearer is another advocate but his tactical savvy was really highlighted last night. "I think we've got to...eh...eh...eh...get in amongst them".

The "you scratch my back" world of English punditry is total horsecrap. Graham Taylor told me as much himself!

[Noelys Guitar]

But when have they played for him?

EG, one guy whose opinion of Venables is very high and whose opinion I distrust the most is Lineker. A bit like the famous Mrs Merton question you could ask him "Gary, what makes the man who made you a millionaire such a great coach?".

Shearer is another advocate but his tactical savvy was really highlighted last night. "I think we've got to...eh...eh...eh...get in amongst them".

The "you scratch my back" world of English punditry is total horsecrap. Graham Taylor told me as much himself!

You need to have played for someone to have an opinion about their coaching abilities. Then surely the selection committee should only be selecting managers/coaches they have played under.

[billybunter]

would'nt mind vernables at all - but i think his chances have been damaged by his close association to this recent england failure...

[paul_oshea]

You need to have played for someone to have an opinion about their coaching abilities. Then surely the selection committee should only be selecting managers/coaches they have played under.

This isnt what he was saying noely.

[Stuttgart88]

You need to have played for someone to have an opinion about their coaching abilities. No, but (a) I'd pay more attention to, e.g., Dunne's opinion, if he had played under Venables and (b) footballers are notoriously thick anyway. They probably see Venables spouting inane nonsense on ITV and think "cor, he's good".

[EalingGreen]

EG, would you take him if Worthington leaves?

Personally I would (though I accept that it would be taking a chance and I am partly influenced by the fact that we would be unlikely to attract anyone remotely as well qualified)



The man is a spoofer, look at his record, his reputation is built by the media. 8 wins out of what 25 at Boro with a team that had cost millions upon millions and that was considered a roaring success. Madness.

There is no doubt that TV's managerial record is very mixed, but his failures are invariably tied up in matters that have little to do with the actual footballing side of things and more with money matters (more often than not money which other people may claim is rightfully theirs, as a litany of court cases and bankruptcies testify! Allegedly;)). When he is "restrained" by a firm Chairman, who keeps close control of the chequebook, and requires him to concentrate on the footballing side of things, he has been very successful.
The best example of this was his time at Barcelona. Wikipedia quotes the following:
"In 1982 Diego Maradona was signed for a world record fee from Boca Juniors. However his time with Barça was short-lived and unsuccessful and he soon left for Napoli. At the start of the 1984/85 season, Terry Venables was hired as manager and he won La Liga with stellar displays by German midfielder Bernd Schuster. The next season, he took the team to their second European Cup final, only to lose on penalties to Steaua Bucureşti in a dramatic evening at Seville.
After the 1986 World Cup, English top scorer Gary Lineker was signed along with goalkeeper Andoni Zubizarreta but the team could not achieve success while Schuster was excluded from the team. Terry Venables was subsequently fired at the beginning of the 1987/88 season and replaced with Luis Aragones. That season finished with a rebellion of the players against president Núñez known as the Motin del Hesperia and the 1-0 victory at the Copa del Rey final against Real Sociedad"

Note that TV took over arguably the biggest club in the world, which was in turmoil, financially and personnel-wise, following the Maradona episode and was soon in turmoil again after he left. TV won them the League in his first season, which they hadn't done in the previous 11 years (an unheard of "drought").
The following season he took them to within a penalty shoot-out of winning the European Cup for what would have been only their second ever victory.
When he was finally shoved out following a power struggle (afaik involving the notoriously volatile and conniving Schuster), none of his successors, including Aragones, managed to win La Liga for another four years.
To believe that anyone could merely "spoof" his way towards those achievements is frankly idiotic.



Footballers aren't the brightest or the most honest either, how often to they ever badmouth a manager after he's sacked? They just trot out the same platitudes time after time. Players may have enjoyed playing under Venables but fook all of them actually won anything.

Google "Massimo Maccarone" and "Steve McLaren" for a topical example of a player bad-mouthing a manager. Or Jimmy Floyd Hasslebaink. Or Paolo Di Canio. Or Eric Cantona. Or (ahem) Roy Keane. Or any one of hundreds who've retired and been offered a few hundred quid by a Red Top.

Most players bite their tongue. Some make mild criticisms, or "damn with faint praise". Some (as above) let rip entirely. But not only do players not do such things with Venables; on the contrary, they invariably actively praise his coaching. As I say, I think he is probably unique for the acclaim he receives on this score, even from enemies, on a scale which almost matches the other things they say about him on non-footballing matters!

[Stuttgart88]

Our players all say Stan was harshly treated. Damn, we should have kept him.

[eekers]

another thing the last time venables managed a game in ireland there was a riot!

[EalingGreen]

But when have they played for him?

EG, one guy whose opinion of Venables is very high and whose opinion I distrust the most is Lineker. A bit like the famous Mrs Merton question you could ask him "Gary, what makes the man who made you a millionaire such a great coach?".
Shearer is another advocate but his tactical savvy was really highlighted last night. "I think we've got to...eh...eh...eh...get in amongst them".

The "you scratch my back" world of English punditry is total horsecrap. Graham Taylor told me as much himself!

What made Lineker a millionaire was scoring 244 goals in 462 club games at top level, the vast majority of them under other managers. And scoring 48 times for England in 80 appearances, including 11 in 12 World Cup finals games, and none of them under El Tel, might have had something to do with it as well. :rolleyes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Lineker

Frankly, for every one player/former player you could produce who says something even remotely critical of TV's coaching (and I can't even think of one), I could guarantee to produce 10 who are complimentary. Which would be unusual even for a well-liked manager (Bobby Robson? Martin Jol? Alan Curbishley?), but is unheard of for one who is otherwise so controversial as Venables.