England lose to Croatia

[jebus]

Gerrard tried in the first half I thought, then realised what shirt he was wearing and gave up, Becks played well when he came one, great cross for England's man of the match Peter Crouch, who I genuinely felt sorry for tonight. Can you imagine knocking the ball into that many great areas only to realise that after that that you are counting on Fatso Lampard to bust a gut to get in there?!

[rambler14]

Poor Crouch was knackered by the end of the game in the last 15 mins he didn't win one header.

[Scram]

The pitch at Wembley is a disgrace tonight.

The pitch is beautiful, the night is beautiful, Croatia is beautiful, football IS a beautiful game.

ps. "ha ha haha ha ha ha" sounds very good if sung to the tune of "The Great Escape"

:D

bitter, twisted and happy Irishman, even a dive for a penalty didn't save Engerrrland for a change.

[geysir]

Enjoyed that :)
A bit of a Gallic understatement there Giuly, you were probably doing cartwheels all over your house.
I hear now they are blaming the Americans, for mucking up the pitch at the weekend with a NFL game there.

Croatia compared to England looked a class team

[superfrank]

Croatia were up for it tonight and well done for them. They could easily have sent a bunch of u-21's out, like Wales. They wanted to win, even when they'd won the group. It was great to see.

England were appalling. They didn't deserve to go through on that performance. McClaren will get all the blame, predictably, but imo those players were the fault England lost. They didn't do enough. They upped it in the second half but then fell back. Imo, it's the players fault. I feel sorry for McClaren.

[Feech]

I think we're all a bit guilty of Schadenfreude here, pleasure in the misery of others.

Thanks for explaining the meaning of Schadenfreude for the Lumpenproletariat you obviously believe post here......

[Superhoops]

.....Penalty my arse.......


bitter, twisted and happy Irishman, even a dive for a penalty didn't save Engerrrland for a change.

Definite penalty. Great spot by the lino. Too many of these are let go. The stupid part for the defender was that it was not necessary as the keeper had the ball.


.....Becks played well when he came one, great cross for England's man of the match Peter Crouch, who I genuinely felt sorry for tonight...
Agree Crouch was England's MOTM but that tells you how poor they were and what lack of ambition England had.


..Croatia were brilliant on the counter tonight, Modric looked a million dollars....
Totally agree. Despite England packing midfield, this guy ran the show in that area.

Croatia displayed tonight what 'pride in the jersey' is all about. They went into a game where they had already qualified, on a shi*ty night, on a shi*ty pitch got pegged backed back from 0-2 but still had the desire and passion to lift themselves to win the game.

[DmanDmythDledge]

England were appalling. They didn't deserve to go through on that performance. McClaren will get all the blame, predictably, but imo those players were the fault England lost. They didn't do enough. They upped it in the second half but then fell back. Imo, it's the players fault. I feel sorry for McClaren.
While I agree with the jist of what you're saying McClaren has made some terrible decisions throughout the campaign. Dropping Beckham to begin with was foolish and was only done to make point, as his decision to recall him after England's poor start. Contiuing to play Gerrard and Lampard together when it's clear that that partnership doesn't work and most criminally tonight playing 4-5-1 when they badly needed the win. He'll be a lucky man if he's still England manager after all this.

[superfrank]

While I agree with the jist of what you're saying McClaren has made some terrible decisions throughout the campaign. Dropping Beckham to begin with was foolish and was only done to make point, as his decision to recall him after England's poor start. Contiuing to play Gerrard and Lampard together when it's clear that that partnership doesn't work and most criminally tonight playing 4-5-1 when they badly needed the win. He'll be a lucky man if he's still England manager after all this.
He isn't the best manager I know. However, there's only so much that can be blamed on the manager. I know the tactics he went with tonight didn't work from the start but he made the changes at half-time and they did play better. Then once it was 2-2, the players dropped off. Imo, you can't blame the manager for that.

[Réiteoir]

Bit of a mixed night:

Norway beating Malta 4-1 - but Turkey sneaking a 1-0 win against Bosnia to qualify instead of the Norwegians (Thank you Myhre you plank for ****ing up in Istanbul :mad:)

Finland missing out in the most heartbreaking circumstances possible AGAIN (meaning Jari Litmanen probably joins Ryan Giggs and Ian Rush as one of the greats never to go to an International Finals Tournament)

Spain and Sweden firmly putting Northern Ireland in their ****ty little place as a crappy one-player nation. kthx

Proud of Liechtenstein for one of their best ever Qualification Tournaments EVER

McClaren gone by Saturday tbh - hopefully replaced by Staunton

But the return of the Home Internationals Tournament hopefully next summer - stop the smug Nordies from wheeling out the fact they're still "British Champions" - despite fluking that some 100,000 years ago. For the love of God - get it on and someone else win it PLEASE

[onenilgameover]

certainly welcomed back into the bosom of mistress football tonight...what a larph...

[Gaillimh Al]

England were awful and deserved to lose. God only knows what he was thinking putting Carson in for a game like that. I do think the NFL game didn't help, both wings where all their entourages and subs and that stand was atrocious. But both teams had to play on it. I wonder when was the last time England's Premiership stars had played on a surface that bad. They didn't seem to know how to cope with it, and resorted to lumping it to Crouch who did everything he possibly could. He is such a waste of talent at Liverpool.
Fair play to the Croatians, but I seriously doubt if they would have attacked as wholeheartedly if they had needed a point from the game. No pressure or expectation on them = freedom to express themselves and that they did. Well done Slavan Bilic, a future Champions League winning manager maybe?

[Supreme feet]

Great stuff. I don't think they'll be much of a loss to Euro 2008. Apart from the drama of the penalties against Portugal, they contributed absolutely nothing to the last World Cup. The Paraguay, T&T and Ecuador games were shocking, the Sweden game was meaningless and the quarter-final was scoreless. Didn't take any pleasure in watching them, only relief when they were eliminated.

[cheifo]

Croatia were excellant tonight.Played some great stuff on that awful pitch.I really admired the way they took the game to England at 2-2.
Bit harsh on N.I. Reitoir, they had a better qualifiers than we did and came out with pride.Agree with you about Liechenstein though, their 3-0 win over Iceland was the heroic result of the qualifiers.
At this stage who can say Premiership footballers are not overpaid/rated.If I am not mistaken Israel finished on 23 points-same as England.Collectively
how much are they valued at in contrast to "The Golden Generation".

[shaneker]

Impossible to feel sorry for them as I do for Scotland and NI. Sh!te, pure and simple, deserved nothing and got nothing from the start to the end of the campaign.

And am I foolish for thinking 20/1 on Croatia winning the thing next year is amazing value? Looking at the way they have played this campaign in the big games, coupled with their savvy coach, makes me think no team will be able to get an easy game off them, and with Europe generally not looking too good in footballing terms right now they have as good a chance as any?

EDIT - from bbc.co.uk


Croatia coach Slaven Bilic believed England's players were unable to cope with the expectations of a hugely expectant country and media.

"We didn't feel that kind of negative pressure," said Bilic.

"It's a bit hard, although they are world-class players and should cope with it, it is hard to cope with that kind of negative pressure.

Bilic added: "Wake up. You didn't lose the game because of the tactics.
"We're simply a better team. I admire your team and your players but my team is a much better team."

I love this guy!

[Closed Account 2]

Croatia are a good bet but Romania are very strong too... The power center of European football is swinging east. Teams like Romania, Croatia and Russia play great football. Theyve skillfull players who are full of stamina and play a great passing game.

[Closed Account 2]

oh by the way - JA TE VOLIM - HRVATSKA !!! :)

[shaneker]

I confess to knowing very little about Romania, although I have noticed how well they have done in this campaign, so they must be doing something right. Anyone in particular to look out for?

I'm thinking Croatia because they seem very intelligent; a real knowledge of when to hold onto the ball, when to spring a counter attack and when to slow the pace down. Combined with the fact that they have some properly good players; I can't be arsed to look up the names but the young fella in central midfield has class written all over him, Olic never stopped running and caused so many problems, very solid central defence, pace on the flanks, with a good cheeky coach...could be a cup-winning combination!

I genuinely believe (and this theory occured to me after Greece won EURO 2004) that the shift in power in Europe is largely due to the prima donna and celebrity status of most English/Italian/Spanish footballers. International football seems to be a chore for them, something they do because they have to, not an honour. Countries like Romania, Croatia, Greece, even Macedonia and Israel, still seem to have that pride and passion for the shirt, and the performances are reflecting this. Maybe this has always been the case to some degree, but with football so money-driven these days it is really starting to have an impact, such as Greece winning the title of best team in Europe. 3 years later, it still makes no sense in footballing terms, so there must be some other factor at play.

Its happened to us, too. Several players looking like playing for Ireland is a minor distraction from their 10/20/30/60 grand a week day jobs. The difference is we aren't good enough to compensate (although I suppose neither are England now! :p).

[kingdom hoop]

oh by the way - JA TE VOLIM - HRVATSKA !!! :)

I know Hrvatska is Croatia (on the passport) - presumably then, it means I love you Croatia?

If so, good shout. Beautiful country, great footballing football team, and, most importantly, stunning women. :)

[Closed Account 2]

da odlocino prijateli! ti razus hrvatski/srpski ??

hvala lepo mladen petric i ivca olic

[kingdom hoop]

da odlocino prijateli! ti razus hrvatski/srpski ??


:) Eh no, but I think I might have a strange knack of deciphering foreign tongues. ;)

Is it a tough one to learn? I wouldn't mind settling down in Split/Zagreb/Dubrovnik with a local chica bonita!

[Closed Account 2]

yeah i spent a couple of months out there and picked bits of it up, but it's impossible to learn it properly, there are so many rules, conjugations etc, but simple enought o pick up waht you'd need for a holiday.

split is very nice, a nice big town by the coast... Zagreb is ok a bit bland though best city in ex-Yug is probably Mostar IMO

back on topic, what a great manager Bilic is!!

[Boh_So_Good]

:ball:

No doubt, you and the rest of the Hartlepoole Albion and the Queen's Own Athletic Oirish Paddywackery Division in Oirland FC must be filling your West Brit wellies with sperm...etc...etc...:rolleyes:

[kingdom hoop]

Yeah edmundo, I travelled around there for about two weeks before, Split is lovely, and I thought Zagreb was pretty nice too. Of course though I'd rather live nearer to that delightful Dalmation coast if possible.

Agree on Bilic, but not too sure about the earring! Adds a bit of menace I suppose, saying that, its not like he needed much more. It was great to see him so excited after the winner, fair play to him.

Apparently he has a law degree, so obviously reasonably clever, and added to his wonderful passion and the fact that he has the legends of Asanovic and Prosinecki alongside him its no great surprise they played so well tonight and previously.

I think, not just for beating England tonight, they might be my team for the Euros, always had a soft spot for them anyway.

Ja te volim Hrvatska. :)

[mypost]

I genuinely believe (and this theory occured to me after Greece won EURO 2004) that the shift in power in Europe is largely due to the prima donna and celebrity status of most English/Italian/Spanish footballers. International football seems to be a chore for them, something they do because they have to, not an honour. Its happened to us, too. Several players looking like playing for Ireland is a minor distraction from their 10/20/30/60 grand a week day jobs.

:confused:

Bar the English, all the big guns will be at the finals, Italy are WCW, while all semi-finalists in the last tournament were from Western Europe.

Greece's win was a fluke, when everything went their way. It won't happen again. The winner this time will be one from the usual suspects once again.

As for the English, I have a message for them. Your last EC campaign lasted 12 games, and this one also lasted 12 games. Welcome to the rejects list, and see how you cope with been an also ran for a change.

[as_i_say]

The Austrian and Swiss Police, fans. residents and open air coffee shop owners no doubt delighted by last nights result and that the en-ger-land hooligan scum brigade will not be travelling en masse to their towns.

[CollegeTillIDie]

McClaren got the bullet this morning according to SKYNEWS. And with the English minority hooligan element out of the equation the bill for running the damn thing has come down by multi -thousands for the Swiss and the Arnies !

[Stuttgart88]

Croatia were super to watch. Whatever people say about the southern European / latin style I've always thought the eastern Europeans are the best to watch.

Always tall, athletic and a bit physical they have also always had superb technique and England's "world class" midfield was taught a lesson last night.

It's a deep rooted problem. David Platt (?) was saying as much on SKY (yes,. I watched it again at 10:30 I was so happy!). They way they football will never win a tournament. They are a set-piece and high ball team. Everything Croatia did last night was measured. Even Bent's late chance was from a blind hoof over the top from Lampard that Charlton would have loved. I thought Crouch's goal was very good though.

Did you hear Shearer at HT? I was p1ssing myself. Croatia were passing with aplomb, keeping possession, spreading the play and taking and controlling passes like they had velcro on their boots. Shearer's response was " we've go to...eh...eh....eh.... get in amongst them"! Is that all successful career in club and international football has taught him about the game?

Fascinating contrast in styles, almost like Celtic vs Moscow in the CL qualifier in Glasgow.

As for Motty: "say something Mark" "please Beckham please", oh God it was funny.

[beautifulrock]

Well done Slavan Bilic, a future Champions League winning manager maybe?

Wait a second why didnt we think of that:confused: We should have selected a former experienced defender with no managerial experience as our manager.

[beautifulrock]

And with the English minority hooligan element out of the equation the bill for running the damn thing has come down by multi -thousands for the Swiss and the Arnies !

that is true but England travel in massive numbers (60,000 plus in Germany)and spend likewise when on their travels. Big loss to the economy of the host nation that is for sure.

[as_i_say]

there are plenty of rich russians who will be travelling over and are less likely to throw a chair through a shop window in the rabid grip of stella artois fever at 2 in the afternoon.

[beautifulrock]

there are plenty of rich russians who will be travelling over and are less likely to throw a chair through a shop window in the rabid grip of stella artois fever at 2 in the afternoon.

Perhaps but not near the 60,000 and there are not that many rich Russians. A few very rich Russian alright though

[Stuttgart88]

Good point!

Seriously though, didn't Bilic do a good job with their U21s first?

[Closed Account 2]

I feel that Steven Staunton, with his tactical acumen, ability to inspire great players, knowledge of the world game, wealth of experience, candid thoughts on player performance, and unsurpassed achievments in European football, would be the ideal man to lead the English into the next campaign and beyond.

[Lim till i die]

Football was the real winner last night

British (And by extension Irish) football is lagging as far behind the continent as it ever was

Stevie Courageous once again shown up as a huff merchant
Frank Lampard shown up as a non entity again
English football shown up as tactically clueless kick and rush, despite the hype

Was genuinely delighted last night, it would have been a crime against football for that English team to qualify

[Green Tribe]

McClaren and Venables sacked

[Roadend]

It was interesting that when they really needed to lump it into the box, they couldn't.

[Lim till i die]

Venables sacked

Possibly the only thing funnier than John Motson last night is the fact that the FAI are probably going to give this charlatan a job

[anto1208]

McClaren and Venables sacked

Now watch the FAI give Venables the guy 2nd in charge of that fiasco a job FFS

[eirebhoy]

English football shown up as tactically clueless kick and rush
That's exactly what it was. How many English playmakers can you name? Scholes? That's incredible. Spain have 3 playmakers in their first team in Xavi, Fabregas and Alonso.

[Lim till i die]

That's exactly what it was. How many English playmakers can you name? Scholes? That's incredible. Spain have 3 playmakers in their first team in Xavi, Fabregas and Alonso.

And I wouldn't even consider Scholes a playmaker in the sort of continental sense.

He can still be far more hyper at times then the lads you mentioned above

[Dodge]

That's exactly what it was. How many English playmakers can you name? Scholes? That's incredible. Spain have 3 playmakers in their first team in Xavi, Fabregas and Alonso.

And Xavi is only the third choice midfielder for his club (behind 2 better playmakers in Deco and Iniesta)

It all boils down to midfielders for me. And England's is terrible at international level. Gerrard is a sham, and Lampard isn't much better (although his work rate is massive).

In saying that how many of the team that played last night would be considered world class?

Carson - not evn good in a premiership sense
Richards - potentially. Doesn't help playing centre half for club and right back for country
Bridge - only playing as he's one of about 3 english left fulls around
Campbell - 5 years ago maybe
Lescott - good honest premiership defender.
Gerrard - overrated wankbag
Lampard - huffer.
Barry - honest worker. Decent left foot. Slow as hell
Wright philips - Headless chicken
Cole - Decent player. Too inconsistent though
Crouch - Effective but limited

Of those missing, I'd say only Rooney could be considered world class. Owen on his day is a fine striker too. Beckham, despite being completely over rated is still England's only creative midfielder.

[Green Tribe]

I feel that Steven Staunton, with his tactical acumen, ability to inspire great players, knowledge of the world game, wealth of experience, candid thoughts on player performance, and unsurpassed achievments in European football, would be the ideal man to lead the English into the next campaign and beyond.

Steve Staunton should take the England job, at least he has some international experience under his belt now :eek::D

[lopez]

Gutted this morning. Totally gutted!

Totally gutted that Steve McLaren was sacked. :D I was hoping for another 2 years out of him.

Mind you, look at the players.

A summer without England flags flying from my neighbour's house bringing down the price of my property. Happy f*cking days!

On the minus side, the FAI aren't seriously thinking of hiring Ronnie Knight, are they?

[anto1208]

Im glad to see there is no anti england sentiments on here today and no one is taking any joy in them getting knocked out :D

[London-Irish]

What do you reckon lads?

[Lim till i die]

Carson - not evn good in a premiership sense
Richards - potentially. Doesn't help playing centre half for club and right back for country
Bridge - only playing as he's one of about 3 english left fulls around
Campbell - 5 years ago maybe
Lescott - good honest premiership defender.
Gerrard - overrated wankbag
Lampard - huffer.
Barry - honest worker. Decent left foot. Slow as hell
Wright philips - Headless chicken
Cole - Decent player. Too inconsistent though
Crouch - Effective but limited


Almost Spot On Analysis

But I don't think you were harsh enough on Joe Cole :)

To think the vast majority of Liverpools fans I know think Gerrard is their/the worlds best midfielder :rolleyes:

[shaneker]

:confused:

Bar the English, all the big guns will be at the finals, Italy are WCW, while all semi-finalists in the last tournament were from Western Europe.

Greece's win was a fluke, when everything went their way. It won't happen again. The winner this time will be one from the usual suspects once again.

As for the English, I have a message for them. Your last EC campaign lasted 12 games, and this one also lasted 12 games. Welcome to the rejects list, and see how you cope with been an also ran for a change.

Poland qualified ahead of Portugal, Greece ran away with their group, Scotland ran the WC finalists bloody close, Czechs qualified ahead of Germany, NI beating Spain and Sweden, Romania ahead of Holland.

Greece winning last Euros, Turkey and Korea finishing 3rd and 4th at WC 2002, surely this suggests something is changing albeit slowly.

[geysir]

Motson is a world class commentator, isn't he?

[paul_oshea]

he is a world class gee-bag more like, a total flute.