eL and opinions about it [Archive]

Dodge

16/11/2007, 10:17 AM

On a psychological level, it is interesting that people tend to reply to the negative threads more than the positive ones. Must say something about society in some way.
That and its easier to make highly comic cracks about stuff you hate rather than stuff you find mildly acceptable

The people don't wear leprechaun suits or sing "ole" consider themselves better fans than those who do, for some unknown reason.
The reason is there in black & grey. I mean, Leprechaun suits?!

Finally, the average eL fan has an inflated opinion of the quality of the eL, in terms of playing standard.

And the average LOI hater underestimates the quality of football in the country. Some (on both sides) have it about right.

Who did you support anto1208?

osarusan

16/11/2007, 10:23 AM

That and its easier to make highly comic cracks about stuff you hate rather than stuff you find mildly acceptable

Absolutely.

The reason is there in black & grey. I mean, Leprechaun suits?!

Maybe you're right. I've heard some of them actually cheer if the team scores a goal. Cheer!! Jesus, what's next?

And the average LOI hater underestimates the quality of football in the country. Some (on both sides) have it about right.

Not too many of those on here though.

anto1208

16/11/2007, 10:44 AM

Who did you support anto1208?

Limerick, not only supported them but gave up countless hours of my life working for the club for free for about 15 years.

osarusan

16/11/2007, 10:51 AM

Limerick, not only supported them but gave up countless hours of my life working for the club for free for about 15 years.

posters on here made you stop wanting to go?

If you don't mind me asking, why?

anto1208

16/11/2007, 11:45 AM

posters on here made you stop wanting to go?

If you don't mind me asking, why?

I dont really want to drag it all up again but at the time i didnt think DD taking over would bring what some fans thought it would allthough i hoped it would,i got the usual torrent of abuse being told the usual stuff i get told on here that i was clueless didnt have any idea what i was talking about.

I felt that a good young manager that the players liked would get pushed out that a new manager would come in that the players didnt like he would force out some player due to personal issues he would fall out with the players & loose the dressing room. There was a number of other issues that came up at the time. In time i was proved totally right but i take no pleasure in it as it cost me my team.

Also on a general point:
Its hard to explain but ive noticed a change in LOI fans from people that just liked Footy all footy to being a bit militant about it looking down on people who like English clubs etc etc

All that coupled together to make me say a f*** it i cant be bothered anymore ill put my time effort and money into a club that appreciated it bought a season ticket to goodison and never looked back.

Dodge

16/11/2007, 11:49 AM

anto1208

16/11/2007, 1:11 PM

Dodge

16/11/2007, 1:42 PM

But i suppose the main reason would be the club is gone !! Cant go support a team that doesnt exist

No problem with that. It was your point that the views of a few people on here that stopped you going i had the problem with

anto1208

16/11/2007, 1:52 PM

No problem with that. It was your point that the views of a few people on here that stopped you going i had the problem with

It was one of the factors there was a few different reasons that all built up untill i didnt enjoy it. but i wouldnt be forced out of anything by people i just had my eyes opened by this site.

Lim till i die

19/11/2007, 5:13 PM

Without being one of this snobby LOI fans (which i am anyway...) you obviously weren't that big a Limerick fan if the ramblings of no more than 15 people made you stop going to the games. if you wanted to go to the games you could've just stopped reading their ****e. Sounds like a cop out to me.

Spot On Dodge.

This:

I dont really want to drag it all up again but at the time i didnt think DD taking over would bring what some fans thought it would allthough i hoped it would,i got the usual torrent of abuse being told the usual stuff i get told on here that i was clueless didnt have any idea what i was talking about.

I felt that a good young manager that the players liked would get pushed out that a new manager would come in that the players didnt like he would force out some player due to personal issues he would fall out with the players & loose the dressing room. There was a number of other issues that came up at the time. In time i was proved totally right but i take no pleasure in it as it cost me my team.

Is all ar$e talk

While this:

But i suppose the main reason would be the club is gone !! Cant go support a team that doesnt exist

Is pathetic beyond believe

Donning my snobby LoI fan hat here but Local club gets a new name/disney image (That almost no one within the "old school" is happy about btw) and you can't follow them anymore but you can still devote 73 posts a day to the Everton thread :rolleyes:

What basically happened was some (was no more than 3 or 4) Limerick fans on here wrongly had a go at antos' uncle/father (not sure which he is), a througholy decent sort who saved the club manys a time and anto has been having a great big cry about it ever since.

*Not that you give a $hit Dodge, just couldn't let his tripe go unchallenged
** I realise this post is probably littered with some of that bad western grammar and for this I am sorry :)

Macy

20/11/2007, 11:43 AM

I was just wondering today if this forum has had the effect of changing anyones views perceptions and outlook on any aspect of life?
That people will use any excuse not support a League of Ireland club. My views on this have hardened. It used to be that the football was too crap, but now it's been replaced by the existing fans "attitude". If you don't want to support it, fine, don't support it. Say you just prefer watching it on tele, say you've no interest in going week in week out, and that you just couldn't be bothered really. Don't come up with bogus excuses to try and justify it.

Can't really think of much else that has really changed since foot.ie tbh. The old el message board probably had more of an impact, but I suppose that's an age thing...

osarusan

20/11/2007, 12:02 PM

That people will use any excuse not support a League of Ireland club. My views on this have hardened. It used to be that the football was too crap, but now it's been replaced by the existing fans "attitude". If you don't want to support it, fine, don't support it. Say you just prefer watching it on tele, say you've no interest in going week in week out, and that you just couldn't be bothered really. Don't come up with bogus excuses to try and justify it.

To be fair though, I think there is a real contradiction between "we need to convince people to come to eL games (these people will need to be football fans, and if it's not eL, what is it?".............and on the other hand "Barstoolers are a bunch of moronic ******* and I'd rather they never came to an eL game."

If attendances are are going to increase, surely "barstoolers" must be one of the target customers? Yet the attitude towards them on this website is hardly inviting/inclusive.

Some people may not be eL fans for the valid reasons you've listed above, but some potential fans may be turned off by what I think is a definite superiority complex.

Dodge

20/11/2007, 12:37 PM

If attendances are are going to increase, surely "barstoolers" must be one of the target customers? Yet the attitude towards them on this website is hardly inviting/inclusive.
But clubs/fans have tried for years and years to get these people to go to games and they've always had an excuse. I'm firmly in the camp that believes that nothing will get the majority of Irish people into LOI grounds. And although I have an LOI superiority complex, I don't ever attack people on here for supporting British sides. I may pity them but it doesn't bother me that somebody supports Chelsea over Bohs (or whatever)

Some people may not be eL fans for the valid reasons you've listed above, but some potential fans may be turned off by what I think is a definite superiority complex.
Again I think its a complete cop out. If they went to the games, they'd notice we don't all stand around thinking how great we are, we just get on with supporting our teams. you'll also find that Irish supporters of Liverpool have no problem with the scouser's superiority complex (to non scouser Liverpool fans) and this is repeated throughout the premiership. Its selective reasoning...

osarusan

20/11/2007, 12:57 PM

I'm firmly in the camp that believes that nothing will get the majority of Irish people into LOI grounds.

As am I. They're not big enough.

If they went to the games, they'd notice we don't all stand around thinking how great we are, we just get on with supporting our teams.

I agree with this also.

But the people we're talking about are people who don't know this because they don't go to games, so they won't be using this as a criterion on which they make their decision to go or not.

I fully agree with the opinion that once people have actually gone to a few games, seen the atmosphere, and the fact that the football is much better than they had expected/been led to believe, and generally had a good time, a large percentage will want to go again, and again.

But the question is how to make people who now have no affiliation with the eL start to become interested in the eL? In this respect, a superiority complex may have a (small) adverse effect.

Dodge

20/11/2007, 1:22 PM

But the question is how to make people who now have no affiliation with the eL start to become interested in the eL? In this respect, a superiority complex may have a (small) adverse effect.
It may do, but its a question of context. You won't find many LOI fans going into random pubs and shouting their mouths off at people watching Arsenal v Chelsea. The fact is he'll probably have as much an interest in it as most.

What we say on here is pretty much to a limited audience and a number of things are assumed of the reader. We assume that those here want Irish football to succeed. We assume that they are at least aware of our league. Its only really when these people belittle/mock our league that the LOIers react and hit back.

I have no hesitation in sying people who go to watch their team are far better fans than those who watch their team on TV. I also have yet to hear one valid reason for supporting Liverpool over Limerick. This debate usually ends up with a non LOIer complaining about the LOIer's superiority complex but IMo its really the non LOIer's inferiority complex because deep down they know the LOI fan is right.

Macy

20/11/2007, 1:25 PM

Some people may not be eL fans for the valid reasons you've listed above, but some potential fans may be turned off by what I think is a definite superiority complex.
I'm not necessarily sure they are valid reasons and I don't think any kind of "attitude" genuinely exists outside the reality of internet forums. It's a pure and utter cop out anyway. The debate and slagging of out of towners at United, Liverpool etc has been going on since the early 90's (actually back to the 60's at United tbh), the few games a season crowd are generally despised by the hardcore, yet it doesn't stop the same people who use the "attitude of league of Ireland fans" paying their sky sports sub, or their 5 trips a season, or buying a kit. It's a nonsense.

gustavo

20/11/2007, 1:56 PM

I'm not necessarily sure they are valid reasons and I don't think any kind of "attitude" genuinely exists outside the reality of internet forums. It's a pure and utter cop out anyway. The debate and slagging of out of towners at United, Liverpool etc has been going on since the early 90's (actually back to the 60's at United tbh), the few games a season crowd are generally despised by the hardcore, yet it doesn't stop the same people who use the "attitude of league of Ireland fans" paying their sky sports sub, or their 5 trips a season, or buying a kit. It's a nonsense.
Reminds me of the time on here a guy from Sligo went over to watch a Man United game and was wondering why he was getting funny looks when he and the people he was with clapped an opposition player off the pitch who was from Sligo.

Dodge

20/11/2007, 2:00 PM

BTW I'm off to Old Trafford next month...

John83

20/11/2007, 2:01 PM

BTW I'm off to Old Trafford next month...
Damn you, and your children, and your children's children. For one month.

Dodge

20/11/2007, 2:06 PM

Damn you, and your children, and your children's children. For one month.
I should've pointed out I'm going in support of the Glazer's bid to destroy our arch enemy The Premiership...

I'm certainly not going to support any of that foreign muck

osarusan

20/11/2007, 2:06 PM

I'm not necessarily sure they are valid reasons and I don't think any kind of "attitude" genuinely exists outside the reality of internet forums. It's a pure and utter cop out anyway. The debate and slagging of out of towners at United, Liverpool etc has been going on since the early 90's (actually back to the 60's at United tbh), the few games a season crowd are generally despised by the hardcore, yet it doesn't stop the same people who use the "attitude of league of Ireland fans" paying their sky sports sub, or their 5 trips a season, or buying a kit. It's a nonsense.

I meant that the examples you gave are "valid" examples of what people say, I didn't mean to validate the reasons themselves. It wasn't clear, I see that now.

John83

20/11/2007, 2:09 PM

I should've pointed out I'm going in support of the Glazer's bid to destroy our arch enemy The Premiership...

I'm certainly not going to support any of that foreign muck
Ah, well, in that case. Mi casa es tu casa amigo.

osarusan

20/11/2007, 2:10 PM

I have no hesitation in saying people who go to watch their team are far better fans than those who watch their team on TV.

But, when trying to convince "tv-football" fans to become "go-to-the-game-fans", the above quote may not be the most successful marketing tool.

Macy

20/11/2007, 2:18 PM

But, when trying to convince "tv-football" fans to become "go-to-the-game-fans", the above quote may not be the most successful marketing tool.
He's saying it on here, not to them. If they go to a supporter of the club they're watching on TV they'd get the same view, but it doesn't stop them watching the club on TV or going to a few games.

Dodge

20/11/2007, 2:29 PM

He's saying it on here, not to them. If they go to a supporter of the club they're watching on TV they'd get the same view, but it doesn't stop them watching the club on TV or going to a few games.

Spot on.

Its not an Irish phenomenon either. Ask Wrexham fans what they think of Liverpool fans from Wrexham or Swindon fans what they think of Chelsea fans from Swindon.

osarusan

20/11/2007, 2:41 PM

He's saying it on here, not to them. If they go to a supporter of the club they're watching on TV they'd get the same view, but it doesn't stop them watching the club on TV or going to a few games.

I fully agree with this. But my original point was about increasing attendances. Man United won't ever know that...lets say... 4-500 potential fans lost interest because the locals are not so keen on their presence. eL clubs need those 4-500 far more than any Premiership club does. (And we are always talking about premiership clubs, or Celtic, I think).

An Arsenal fan who attitude is along the lines of "Mate, I'm a better fan than you because I'm from here and I watch all the games, whereas you watch them on TV and come here 3/4 times a season. You're a plastic supporter who has no idea of what real football is. Now **** off back to Ireland" is very different from a fan of an eL team saying basically the same thing, while still trying to attract that kind of person as a fan.

Again, I know this doesn't happen in the eL grounds themselves, but it does happen. And again, I'm not trying to exaggerate its role in low attendances, but it does have an effect.

Dodge

20/11/2007, 2:54 PM

Again, I know this doesn't happen in the eL grounds themselves, but it does happen. And again, I'm not trying to exaggerate its role in low attendances, but it does have an effect.
The point is that the above outburst won't stop that guy being an Arsenal supporter but if he got it from an LOI fan he would use it as an excuse not to go to a LOI game.

anto1208

20/11/2007, 2:58 PM

The point is that the above outburst won't stop that guy being an Arsenal supporter but if he got it from an LOI fan he would use it as an excuse not to go to a LOI game.

Maybe they just prefer to watch good football , why should some one watch crap just because the team is from the same town they live in.

osarusan

20/11/2007, 3:02 PM

The point is that the above outburst won't stop that guy being an Arsenal supporter but if he got it from an LOI fan he would use it as an excuse not to go to a LOI game.But the difference is that in the first instance, he already considers himself a fan of that club, and has some affiliation (real or imagined) which ties him to the club.

In the second, we are talking about people we are trying to attract to the game, not existing fans. People with no affiliation are likely to be more "insulted".
Maybe they just prefer to watch good football , why should some one watch crap just because the team is from the same town they live in.Anto................thanks. Dodge, Macy and I have been trying to come to some resolution..................you've solved it in a single eloquent sentence.

I would say that your attitude has changed pretty quickly for one who spent 15 years as a volunteer for an eL club.

micls

20/11/2007, 3:06 PM

Maybe they just prefer to watch good football , why should some one watch crap just because the team is from the same town they live in.

Maybe. Why cant they do both though? For example would you or other people from Limerick support Kilkenny in hurling? After all they are a better team.

paul_oshea

20/11/2007, 3:12 PM

Maybe they just prefer to watch good football , why should some one watch crap just because the team is from the same town they live in.

Ya, im afraid if I asked any of my mates thats exactly what they would say too. Whatever ye say about improved standards etc, until they get to a group stage of uefa or CL then they will always think that, and in fairness they are probably right, bar mayeb the unluckiness ( if ye want to call it that ) of the seedings etc....

osarusan

20/11/2007, 3:16 PM

Ya, im afraid if I asked any of my mates thats exactly what they would say too. Whatever ye say about improved standards etc, until they get to a group stage of uefa or CL then they will always think that, and in fairness they are probably right, bar mayeb the unluckiness ( if ye want to call it that ) of the seedings etc....

but why do fans of....lets say....Sunderland and Spurs...have such disagreements, if they are only interested in watching good football. Why aren't they Barcelona or Real Madrid fans?

There is more to it than just wanting to watch good football. People want to "belong" to something, to feel part of it.

Macy

20/11/2007, 3:19 PM

Maybe they just prefer to watch good football , why should some one watch crap just because the team is from the same town they live in.
Then you'll never truely understand what a club means to a born and bred local fan, and how it reflects their identity.

Ya, im afraid if I asked any of my mates thats exactly what they would say too. Whatever ye say about improved standards etc, until they get to a group stage of uefa or CL then they will always think that, and in fairness they are probably right, bar mayeb the unluckiness ( if ye want to call it that ) of the seedings etc....
And so the circle is complete

paul_oshea

20/11/2007, 3:38 PM

Osasuran, I would say that its the level, though I know a lot of lads who would watch the local junior side but not EL side so you do have a point, i just think its a smaller percentage of those you relate too. Buts its definitely a certain level. Why dont they watch Division 1 or whatever its called and they will answer with the same question. Why dont they watch wigan v bolton , and they will tell ye the same thing. YOu will always have many neutrals who would watch a game like chelsea v united etc....

Dodge

20/11/2007, 3:49 PM

YOu will always have many neutrals who would watch a game like chelsea v united etc....

Thats not really relevant as you'll find the vast majority of LOI fans will watch that game (and most will watch any football at all)

People who supposedly invest so mcuh emotions in their British team couldn't possibly understand what its really like to follow a team.

Can you give me one reason why a bloke from Dublin should choose to be a Chelseas fan?

osarusan

20/11/2007, 10:22 PM

well, moving it to the eL forum kind of killed it, huh?

Dodge

20/11/2007, 10:31 PM

Or maybe people just can't answer my question? ;)

TheBoss

20/11/2007, 10:35 PM

Do any of you think, if the stadiums were of the highest order in terms facilities and they were all seater stadiums, maybe 5-10 thousand capacity, would that make more fans go to the games ?

Jerry The Saint

20/11/2007, 10:38 PM

well, moving it to the eL forum kind of killed it, huh?

Taken out of context, I don't think anto's opening post helps his credibility:)

I used to like Jews :D

:D

jebus

20/11/2007, 10:42 PM

Can you give me one reason why a bloke from Dublin should choose to be a Chelseas fan?

Because in this modern, high strung, long hours, poor pay life that we have people choose different forms of escapism. A Dubliner might look at Bohs, UCD, Rovers etc. and think that following these teams might not reach the level of success that will help him leave his humdrum life, if only for 90 minutes. Hence they go for a United, Liverpool, Arsenal or Chelsea, a team that will let them dream that they are scoring the winning goal at an FA Cup Final. I mean lets face it, most EL fans wouldn't be arsed dreaming about scoring the winner in the FAI Cup final, let alone the barstooler.

Plus a Dubliner, for instance, could be a self hating Dub, and hence would want no association with the football community in the city, something which is about all we have to offer a barstooler, and so will turn to a club like Chelsea that allows them to escape the city, again even if it is just for 90 minutes

Do any of you think, if the stadiums were of the highest order in terms facilities and they were all seater stadiums, maybe 5-10 thousand capacity, would that make more fans go to the games ?

No, the standard of player in the league needs to improve, as those the mentality deployed by the managers on the pitch

Dodge

20/11/2007, 11:03 PM

Because in this modern, high strung, long hours, poor pay life that we have people choose different forms of escapism. A Dubliner might look at Bohs, UCD, Rovers etc. and think that following these teams might not reach the level of success that will help him leave his humdrum life, if only for 90 minutes. Hence they go for a United, Liverpool, Arsenal or Chelsea, a team that will let them dream that they are scoring the winning goal at an FA Cup Final. I mean lets face it, most EL fans wouldn't be arsed dreaming about scoring the winner in the FAI Cup final, let alone the barstooler.

But why would he choose Chelsea?

Lim till i die

20/11/2007, 11:07 PM

But why would he choose Chelsea?

Dodge, surely by now you must realise your average man on the street is a bit of an oik??

I'd imagine he'd choose Chelsea because they were going to be on the big screen 30 times a season, you know, so he could really get involved in supporting the club

osarusan

20/11/2007, 11:28 PM

About 12 years ago, I went to a Limerick FC game in Rathbane, but this time I took a friend of mine, a guy who had moved home from London when he was about 12, and was a big Spurs fan, but more than that he was a big football fan, playing and watching.

I remember noticing that day, I was watching the game from a different point of view. When I went to games by myself, or with my LFC-loving family, I just thought about the game, hoped we'd win.

But that day I became aware of how the ground looked, how the fans sounded, what the skill level was like, because I was concerned about how my friend would react to the experience, and I guess I felt responsible for his enjoyment (or lack of). As it turns out, he liked it, but being a UCG student at the time, he ended up being more of a Galway fan.

Looking at the situation through the eyes of a first-time, tentatively interested visitor, what do they need to see to bring them back again, and how much of that does the eL actually provide?

I realise that the main problem is getting people to go in the first place, but I think the factors involved in answering the above question would help address that problem also.

CollegeTillIDie

21/11/2007, 11:00 AM

Maybe. Why cant they do both though? For example would you or other people from Limerick support Kilkenny in hurling? After all they are a better team.

Well said micls.

The attitude of anto1208, is like the people in Accrington who don't bother their rock and roll to watch Stanley but wear ManUre shirts. The difference is you don't see them supporting Bayern Munich or some other foreign team on the spurious basis of so-called quality of the product on offer.
If the ELOI charged FA Premier League prices , then you can bring the quality argument into place and make an argument based on perceived value for money. If the product on offer is cheaper, by implication it does not need to attain the same standards as the more expensive one, to be equal if not better value for money.

Another thing that ****es me off is Ken Doherty advertising an Irish poker website. '' Because it's an Irish only site with Irish only competition''.Surely an Irish only poker site cannot be as good as a foreign one, because by implication there would be fewer competitors? Well he supports ManUre because he perceives that it is better than the ELOI which is an Irish only League. If that is his attitude toward football, why not the same towards poker. Hypocritical surely?

The Accrington people who ignore Stanley and claim to be football fans are no good to man or beast. Anto1208 I am pleased you put a smile beside one of your other remarks in your initial post. Because otherwise I would have deduced you used to be a ELOI supporter and you used to be a human being by the same token.
Particularly given your home town's unfortunate history on the other subject.

CollegeTillIDie

21/11/2007, 11:07 AM

gustavo

21/11/2007, 11:31 AM

http://forum.football365.com/index.php?t=msg&th=441249&prevloaded=1&&start=0

Opinions of Irish fans of British football

shakermaker1982

21/11/2007, 12:11 PM

http://forum.football365.com/index.php?t=msg&th=441249&prevloaded=1&&start=0

Opinions of Irish fans of British football

interesting read that.

jebus

21/11/2007, 12:22 PM

jebus

I went to an ELOI Premier League game at Dalymount Park about 10 years ago and I got a lift home from a Bohs player whom I happened to know at the time. That would never happen if I ONLY followed foreign football.
I have gotten to know players, managers, referees, club directors, fans etc across the League through supporting UCD. It's been a terrific experience. I bought shares in Waterford United as a gesture of solidarity to the club. I'd do the same for any other club which wanted to have a share issue. The League is more than just one club. We need all the others to have someone to play against. And we need them all to do reasonably well off the field to stay in existence. Once that is established we can kick their ass in every game with out fear or favour.

I agree with all of that, but I still don't see how UCD mid tabling the Premier most season would bring in people who see football purely as a form of escapism, which a lot do, over say Chelsea who will be challenging for the Champions League this season

http://forum.football365.com/index.php?t=msg&th=441249&prevloaded=1&&start=0

Opinions of Irish fans of British football

Good read for anyone who doesn't understand why some people can't be bothered with this league. I agree that the prices are far too high for whats on offer, good point made by the sligo resident who lived in Bordeaux last year on ticket prices. Honestly can see why he wouldn't pay more for watching Sligo vs (let's say)Derry than Bordeaux vs PSV in the Champions League

Dodge

21/11/2007, 12:32 PM

Good read for anyone who doesn't understand why some people can't be bothered with this league. I agree that the prices are far too high for whats on offer, good point made by the sligo resident who lived in Bordeaux last year on ticket prices. Honestly can see why he wouldn't pay more for watching Sligo vs (let's say)Derry than Bordeaux vs PSV in the Champions League

I think every one knows all the excuses. If they had half a brain they'd know that if Sligo were getting 15,000-20,000 at each game they wouldn't have to pay €15

And the bottom line is that Irish football fans who don't support a LOI team just don't understand what a football club means

As I've said I don't care wha thee people think