Would other Countries want Ireland in their group?

[BobbySands]

True I know there on rich vain of form but there one of teams that I think most people will see as having no chance of getting out of there group. There away record is not good enough and will have to improve greatly if they are get near South Africa.

I know there very hard to beat at home but think all pot one teams would win there and would learn from the mistakes that Sweden and Spain made there as well as Denmark who at end of day Ireland hammered away not so long ago.

Don't mean to be pedantic but the spelling on this site is atrocious. This is not the worst but jayzuz......

An Muinteoir

[RogerMilla]

vain ,there ,There , there
An Muinteoir

Vein , their , Their , they're.

[eekers]

Vein , their , Their , they're.

if you are going to be pedantic at least get it right.

vein, they're, their, their

and there's another 'they're' missing at the start of the second paragrapah :)

[RogerMilla]

if you are going to be pedantic at least get it right.

vein, they're, their, their

and there's another 'they're' missing at the start of the second paragrapah :)

i just picked a few examples eekers , the whole thing was a shambles !

[eekers]

i just picked a few examples eekers , the whole thing was a shambles !

i hear hibernian learn to write on a carpark!

[Dr. Ogba]

if you are going to be pedantic at least get it right.

vein, they're, their, their

and there's another 'they're' missing at the start of the second paragrapah :)

ah there their....lets stop this fussin and a feudin'

[CollegeTillIDie]

To get this back of it's tangent I will deal with the peripheral matter to the thread first. Norn Iron are better than the Republic Fact!. We would not have picked up as many points in their group as they currently have end of. They have played well as a team bar two disappointing performances. Compare that to the Republic who only had two decent performances one of which was a 0-1 defeat in Germany.

To get back to the question raised at the outset of the thread. Any 1st or 2nd seed would love us in their group as they know they will beat us in their home game. So a handy three points is always welcome. Before anyone accuses me of being overly negative. Two decent competitive victories away from home in 40 years, history speaks for itself!

[RogerMilla]

agreed college , in fact our reputation rests at the moment on the fact that people on the continent watch the premiership and they know finnan and keane and given.

new manager has a huge job to do

[Hibernian]

i hear hibernian learn to write on a carpark!
??????? what you on..

[Hibernian]

How the fupp did this turn into another ROI vs NI thread. I know we are both in pot 3 but there's a selection of other teams in there too!
It's a fact that NI did better than ROI in the current qualifiers, beating one of the top two seeds and still (bearly) in contention up until the last game. Maybe they will go one better and qualify for the WC or they have reached their peak and will fade away. Maybe ROI will appoint a messiah of a manager that will give their supposedly superior players a good kick up the hole resulting in a vast improvement or maybe we are going to be submitted to another 2 years of dross and ultimate failure. To be honest this ROI vs NI debate is starting to get on my tits here. One or two threads which I can choose to avoid is fine but it's infiltrating too many threads IMO. I was actually looking forward to reading people's opinions when i saw the title of this thread but it looks like another one I will be avoiding, unfortunately. :(

agree 100%

[irishfan86]

Well, regardless of all the fights that go on here, I'm sure I won't be the only one cheering for "Norn Iron" tonight. They've had a great campaign and it would be cool to see them make a tourney.

[shaneker]

And me. They deserve it.

[CollegeTillIDie]

I was '' gutted'' they didn't make it

[Stuttgart88]

Very creditable performance both last night and overall. Who was the co-commentator on BBC NI? It was funny in the first half, Fullerton(?) saying they've got to get closer to the Spanish and the co-commentator saying "that's easy to say but I've tried and you just CAN'T get close to them" and laughed.

[shakermaker1982]

was it John O'Neill?

[Lionel Ritchie]

Norn Iron had some great nights in this campaign sadly counterbalanced by a couple of horror show afternoons ...most noteably Iceland.

Last night they had plenty of huff and puff but ...it's still Spain away. They were a little lucky not to be behind sooner as that was a stone cold penalty in the 7th minute.

They can be very happy with their campaign though. To answer the question that gives this thread it's title, notwithstanding our generally better players I'd agree with whoever said you'd have to be an idiot to want NI in your group ahead of us at the moment.
They're better organised and they've a striker who's got his shooting boots on. While we conceded six goals to Cyprus, won two home games against weak teams and by the only goal, can't win away, can't hold a lead, have become sub-useless at set pieces, can't retain possession...

It's not rocket science to conclude that anyone who gets us will conclude they could scarcely get us at a better time.

[Hibernian]

It's not rocket science to conclude that anyone who gets us will conclude they could scarcely get us at a better time.


Yes I dont think anyone will loose sleep if they get us I know.

But lets say Sweden get in our group we have given them few hammerings (all be it in worthless friendly matches I will add) would they be not thinking to themselves we dont want them after the last time we played them??

Also do any ye guys think teams should be higher or lower pot(seed) then what they should be. I mentioned earlier that I cant believe that Hungary are in Pot Three. What are your taughts on this guys???

I suppose England should be in pot Five after last night;)

[Hibernian]

[quote=Bungle;819480]In my opinion, pots 2 and 3 are almost inseperable in terms of standard.

I respect your comment

IMO I dont think they. I think Pot 1 are the teams everyone has to beat (or get above) in order for them to qualify for WC2010.

Pot2 have teams which certainly not as strong as Pot 1 most teams in Pot 2 I would not fear

but San Marino in Pot 6 does frighten me;)

[backstothewall]

Norway
Ukraine
Serbia
Denmark
Northern Ireland
Republic of Ireland
Finland
Switzerland
Belgium


If i was looking at this as a pot 2 or 4 team, i would want to avoid Switzerland, Serbia, Ukraine and Ireland. Norway or Denmark i take if offered. I would consider Finland, Belgium or NI a result.

[EalingGreen]

Norway
I would consider Finland, Belgium or NI a result.

Notwithstanding that it couldn't happen since we share 3rd Seeding, I would remind you of our last 5 competitive home results:

Spain W 3-2
Latvia W 1-0
Liechtenstein W 3-1
Sweden W 2-1
Denmark W 2-1

You might well beat us at Croke, but we'd hammer you at Windsor. That's right, I said "hammer". :eek:

[HolylandsMan]

We have better players than the North that's beyond doubt. But they are getting results at the minute where we aren't and fair play to them for it. I'd still expect us to take at least 4 points off them in a qualifying group though, espicially if (when?) we get a decent manager.

[carloz]

Fingers crossed we get Israel from pot 2. I would sincerly like to give Mr. Dudu Awat a nice good Dublin welcome:cool:

[viagogo]

Norway
Ukraine
Serbia
Denmark
Northern Ireland
Republic of Ireland
Finland
Switzerland
Belgium


If i was looking at this as a pot 2 or 4 team, i would want to avoid Switzerland, Serbia, Ukraine and Ireland. Norway or Denmark i take if offered. I would consider Finland, Belgium or NI a result.

Looking at this group we are maybe only ahead of Denmark at the moment. I think a top seed would be worried about playing us away from home but I dont think they would consider us a threat to their qualification. Remember we are a country who have not won a decent game away from home since 1987!!

[backstothewall]

Notwithstanding that it couldn't happen since we share 3rd Seeding, I would remind you of our last 5 competitive home results:

Notwithstanding that it couldn't happen, i would remind you you haven't beaten us in a competative fixture since 1979. I would remind you that NI are at a high point, while we are at a low. Despite this we both finished 3rd in our groups. We sacked our manager, while you lot are getting the MBE's out.

History is against you maintaining that level of performance, and against us maintaining our recent bad form.

But don't feel you have to believe me, why not ask someone with real experince of international football?

"I will be going to UEFA to ask if there's any possibility of exchanging the Republic of Ireland for Northern Ireland in our Group."
Karl Bruckner - Jan 2006

[EalingGreen]

Notwithstanding that it couldn't happen, i would remind you you haven't beaten us in a competative fixture since 1979.

I wasn't basing my prediction on events from nearly 30 years ago, rather events from the last 3 or 4 years. (Anyhow, competitive fixture or no, remind me of the score the last time the two teams met? It was recent enough for half of our team still to be playing, after all ;))


I would remind you that NI are at a high point, while we are at a low.

Aye, but NI are unlikely to slump immediately from our "high point", nor the ROI to rise immediately from your "low point" - at least not before the last WC Qualifier in 2009.


Despite this we both finished 3rd in our groups.

You finished 3rd in a weaker Group, having gained 17 points, almost all of them from the minnows in your Group. We finished 3rd in a tougher Group, having gained 20 points, including 11 out of 18 against Spain, Sweden and Denmark.


We sacked our manager, while you lot are getting the MBE's out.


Er, we lost our manager (poached by a Premiership team) half way through the qualifiers, when we were top of the Group. It could be argued that had we kept him, we might well have qualified. As for a replacement, we may be closer to securing a decent appointment (Worthington) than the FAI.



History is against you maintaining that level of performance, and against us maintaining our recent bad form.


Perhaps, but these things don't change overnight. I'm talking about if we met ROI in the next 18 months to 2 years.



But don't feel you have to believe me, why not ask someone with real experince of international football?

"I will be going to UEFA to ask if there's any possibility of exchanging the Republic of Ireland for Northern Ireland in our Group."
Karl Bruckner - Jan 2006

Nah, he left his best years behind him at Bresden...
http://www.royoftherovers.com/whoswho/brucknerkarl.htm

Besides, as the man says, these days Roy of the Rovers reads David Healy comics ;)

[Stuttgart88]

There's a flaw in your argument EG. You say yourself you only get points from good teams and we only get points from the small teams. We're crap, you're small, so only one outcome...

[backstothewall]

The one area i will agree you lot are stronger is an abundance of half decent managers. If Ian Dowie was from the south he would probably have been appointed by now

[mypost]

I would remind you of our last 5 competitive home results:

Spain W 3-2
Latvia W 1-0
Liechtenstein W 3-1
Sweden W 2-1
Denmark W 2-1

We were also the only team in our group to go through our home programme unbeaten, which is more than can be said for our NI friends. With a decent boss, we'd have at least picked up 5 more points from the Cyprus games and a win in Slovakia, to claim 24 points, possibly 2 more from Wales away, and a draw from Prague to make it 27 in total.

Our EC campaign was a fluke with a clueless puppet "in charge". Things will return to normal next time, even if only with a semi-decent boss.

[Bungle]

Hibernian makes a very valid point that what we really need is a fairly weak 1st seed (Greece or Czech Republic spring to mind), as ultimately if we get a team like Italy, the chances are we will be fighting it out with the second and fourth seeds for the playoff place.

i was watching Eurosport yesterday and the commentator made the point that the average age of the Czech team is approaching 30. After this tournament, they will have to seriously rebuild and whoever gets them as a frst seed has landed on their feet.

ultimately, Ireland need to learn to go to places like Georgia and Azerbijan and come away with the three points, if we are to have any hope of finishing in the top 2 of our group. This is a major flaw with our team at the moment. I could genuinely see us beating a top seed in Dublin, but I would be highly anxious about trips to the old soviet union or yugoslavia. I have a feeling that we will struggle to qualify for tournamanets until we correct this problem and become ruthless like countries like sweden.

regarding northern ireland, their incredible home record makes them a great team for us to avoid. a **** poor n.i team could get a result against us, let alone a well organised and motivated n.i team. also, they have some great talent like cathcart and j.evans coming up. i for one am glad to avoid them.

[galwayhoop]

Notwithstanding that it couldn't happen since we share 3rd Seeding, I would remind you of our last 5 competitive home results:

Spain W 3-2
Latvia W 1-0
Liechtenstein W 3-1
Sweden W 2-1
Denmark W 2-1

You might well beat us at Croke, but we'd hammer you at Windsor. That's right, I said "hammer". :eek:

dream on. while ye are getting good results at home ye still very rarely beat teams by more than a goal - the above exception being liechtenstein. yet you would expect to hammer us???? of the teams listed above the Irish team, at this moment in time, would sit somewhere in the same stakes as sweden / denmark. in that we would be reasonably confident playing either team (and they of us i am sure).

to even think ye would hammer us is a bit rich. also while i think sanchez did a fantastic job with ye i don't really rate Worthington since he took over. losses against iceland and latvia would not inspire confidence in me anyway.

i have a feeling that the 'punching above yer weight' which sanchez had ye doing fairly regularly may prove too much for the players ye have who, lets admit it are not world class incl. the effective, for ye, healy who has struggled in ther EPL.

that said i think ye could manage 3rd in yer world cup qualifing group, but i reckon ye may finish 4th/5th tbh.

[EalingGreen]

Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Notwithstanding that it couldn't happen since we share 3rd Seeding, I would remind you of our last 5 competitive home results:

Spain W 3-2
Latvia W 1-0
Liechtenstein W 3-1
Sweden W 2-1
Denmark W 2-1

You might well beat us at Croke, but we'd hammer you at Windsor. That's right, I said "hammer".


dream on. while ye are getting good results at home ye still very rarely beat teams by more than a goal - the above exception being liechtenstein. yet you would expect to hammer us???? of the teams listed above the Irish team, at this moment in time, would sit somewhere in the same stakes as sweden / denmark. in that we would be reasonably confident playing either team (and they of us i am sure).


I base my speculation on the fact that Spain, Sweden and Denmark are a clear cut-above ROI, plus the fact that your recent away record in competition is v.poor. That and the motivation we'd have...



also while i think sanchez did a fantastic job with ye i don't really rate Worthington since he took over. losses against iceland and latvia would not inspire confidence in me anyway.


The jury is out on NW, but I think Latvia/Iceland can be explained by the fact that NW was still settling in with a team he had inherited - LS was a huge act to follow, plus sheer bad luck (esp v Iceland) e.g. two late own goals cost us points. More importantly, NW's following three games were an outstanding away draw in Sweden (even they accepted we might have won it), a great, fighting home win over Denmark and an honourable 1-0 away defeat to Spain via a deflected goal. In all three games, the spirit looked to be excellent (a huge part of our game)



i have a feeling that the 'punching above yer weight' which sanchez had ye doing fairly regularly may prove too much for the players ye have who, lets admit it are not world class incl. the effective, for ye, healy who has struggled in ther EPL.


How often must a team punch above its weight before people come to accept that they were maybe not that lightweight to start with? OK, I have no illusions that we're a good team, but we're not a bad team, either. Moreover, we have only two regulars over 30, Taylor and Gillespie, each of whom have another campaign left in them. As for the rest, they are all either nearing their prime (Healy, Hughes, McCartney, Johnson etc) or young but already hugely experienced in competitive international football (Davis, Evans, Lafferty, Clingan etc)

As for Healy struggling in EPL, who cares? To get 33 goals in 61 internationals is no flash in the pan or lucky streak. Indeed, he's now got 25 in his last 33, so if anything, he's improving! And it's not like as if he's knocking over dummies, either. In eight recent competitive games v England, Spain, Sweden and Denmark, he notched 7 goals, all of them match-winners.



that said i think ye could manage 3rd in yer world cup qualifing group, but i reckon ye may finish 4th/5th tbh.

To predict that the 3rd seeds might finish 3rd in one of the easier Groups is hardly sticking your neck out, is it? It would be my realistic expectation, but I also feel that with a bit of luck, we've as much chance of edging into 2nd as we have of slipping to 4th. (Finishing 5th can never be discounted entirely, but it would be a major surprise. Like finishing 1st! ;))

[ifk101]

We comfortably beat both Sweden and Denmark under the guidance of Stan. How this makes them clear cut better than us I do not know. A wandering waffle of bias I do believe your last post was EG.

[galwayhoop]

I base my speculation on the fact that Spain, Sweden and Denmark are a clear cut-above ROI,
honestly you have a seriously inflated view of sweden and denmark!!!


plus the fact that your recent away record in competition is v.poor. That and the motivation we'd have...
our away record has been poor, but i wouldn't go so far as to say very poor. in our last campaign we only lost to the two top seeds by a single goal. granted we got hockyed in cyprus but ye too got hockyed AT HOME by ICELAND (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/5306658.stm). i'm sure we, like yourselves, might be motivated playing when the rest of our country ......


The jury is out on NW, but I think Latvia/Iceland can be explained by the fact that NW was still settling in with a team he had inherited - LS was a huge act to follow, plus sheer bad luck (esp v Iceland) e.g. two late own goals cost us points. More importantly, NW's following three games were an outstanding away draw in Sweden (even they accepted we might have won it), a great, fighting home win over Denmark and an honourable 1-0 away defeat to Spain via a deflected goal. In all three games, the spirit looked to be excellent (a huge part of our game)
Ye were 'limp' against a spanish side who had wrapped up qualification. they never had to get out of first gear and ye still never got near them. i thought ye played like a team who knew they had a great campaign but knew in their hearts they were never going to beat the spanish.




How often must a team punch above its weight before people come to accept that they were maybe not that lightweight to start with? OK, I have no illusions that we're a good team, but we're not a bad team, either. Moreover, we have only two regulars over 30, Taylor and Gillespie, each of whom have another campaign left in them. As for the rest, they are all either nearing their prime (Healy, Hughes, McCartney, Johnson etc) or young but already hugely experienced in competitive international football (Davis, Evans, Lafferty, Clingan etc)
Ye are a distinctly average side (as you say, not bad and not good). average players who play for very average teams and most in bad leagues. ye do however play with pride which is what has served ye well. hoever as with most minnows this serves well against the top dogs but invariably ye struggle agains poor/average opposition.


To predict that the 3rd seeds might finish 3rd in one of the easier Groups is hardly sticking your neck out, is it?
I didn't predict ye would finish 3rd, i said ye might manage to. however i reckon it will be more like 4th or 5th. as i said when sanchez was appointed fulham manager i felt it would spell the end of yer current 'glory days'. at the time all the NI fans swore black and blue that he would finish out the campaign but the realist in me told ye there was no chance he would if fulham kept him on full time. perhaps nigel worthington can perform a miracle like sanchez almost did but i don't think so. unfortunately when hwe walked out on ye there was a decent chance of qualifing but that went out the door with him. still a credible 4th place might perserve yer pot 3 status.

Ireland, having endured a couple of years of stans management (an unmitigated disaster with seriously embarrassing results), would be expected to improve performances immesurably while ye, following on from yer best campaign in over 2 decades (and HOPING that yer current manager is as good as yer last one) are in the eyes of UEFA teams of similar standing.

an irish team under Stan wouldn't get hammered by your league 2 select side so what makes you think that a team under a decent management team would?????

[EalingGreen]

We comfortably beat both Sweden and Denmark under the guidance of Stan. How this makes them clear cut better than us I do not know. A wandering waffle of bias I do believe your last post was EG.

You should know better than anyone that partly due to the winter/summer season discrepancy, and almost all of their top players playing abroad, Sweden (esp) and Denmark do not treat friendlies nearly as seriously as competitive matches.

[RogerMilla]

our record over the last few years does not stand up to NI's under any comparison you care to make , never mind the fellas who are comparing friendlies to competitive results ??? They are the better team until we prove different.

Getting back on topic , no one in our group is gutted to get us , in fact I bet cyprus are delighted! We need to start putting these teams to the sword. On paper we are on a par with bulgaria and better than all the others bar the world champions , obviously. Second is viable in the group although bulgaria wil be thinking the exact same thing.

Can we please stop talking about Norn Iron now except for in threads specifically dealing with them???

[EalingGreen]

honestly you have a seriously inflated view of sweden and denmark!!!


our away record has been poor, but i wouldn't go so far as to say very poor. in our last campaign we only lost to the two top seeds by a single goal. granted we got hockyed in cyprus but ye too got hockyed AT HOME by ICELAND (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/5306658.stm). i'm sure we, like yourselves, might be motivated playing when the rest of our country ......


Ye were 'limp' against a spanish side who had wrapped up qualification. they never had to get out of first gear and ye still never got near them. i thought ye played like a team who knew they had a great campaign but knew in their hearts they were never going to beat the spanish.




Ye are a distinctly average side (as you say, not bad and not good). average players who play for very average teams and most in bad leagues. ye do however play with pride which is what has served ye well. hoever as with most minnows this serves well against the top dogs but invariably ye struggle agains poor/average opposition.


I didn't predict ye would finish 3rd, i said ye might manage to. however i reckon it will be more like 4th or 5th. as i said when sanchez was appointed fulham manager i felt it would spell the end of yer current 'glory days'. at the time all the NI fans swore black and blue that he would finish out the campaign but the realist in me told ye there was no chance he would if fulham kept him on full time. perhaps nigel worthington can perform a miracle like sanchez almost did but i don't think so. unfortunately when hwe walked out on ye there was a decent chance of qualifing but that went out the door with him. still a credible 4th place might perserve yer pot 3 status.

Ireland, having endured a couple of years of stans management (an unmitigated disaster with seriously embarrassing results), would be expected to improve performances immesurably while ye, following on from yer best campaign in over 2 decades (and HOPING that yer current manager is as good as yer last one) are in the eyes of UEFA teams of similar standing.

an irish team under Stan wouldn't get hammered by your league 2 select side so what makes you think that a team under a decent management team would?????

All right, you've persuaded me: The at first gradual and then catastrophic decline of the ROI team over the last four years never happened. Nor did the steady improvement of the NI team over the same period. We're not ranked ahead of you by FIFA, nor did we pick up a rise of 3 Seedings Pots in our most recent campaign. Plus you already have a top class manager in place, ready to take over a team which only has to hear the word "Go" to get back to where they were a few years back when they were respected, even feared, throughout Europe. And NI will suddenly remember that they were always, in fact, crap and immediately start playing like it in every game.

After all, that's how football works...:rolleyes:

[EalingGreen]

Can we please stop talking about Norn Iron now except for in threads specifically dealing with them???

Fair point, RM. Sorry. :o

[ifk101]

You should know better than anyone that partly due to the winter/summer season discrepancy, and almost all of their top players playing abroad, Sweden (esp) and Denmark do not treat friendlies nearly as seriously as competitive matches.

That's a matter of opinion - I don't know where you got it from but I don't share it. Sweden sends a "development team" made up of domestic league players to places like Saudi Arabia and Ecuador every January (I think Denmark do this bi-annually) but other than that they take their friendly matches as seriously as any other nation. Sweden played us as part of their World Cup build-up and they put out their first choice team at the time. They took the match so "seriously" that their first choice right back for the 2006 World Cup qualifying games has since never played for Sweden following the match in Dublin.

But let try to stick to facts.

The main fact is Ireland beat both Denmark and Sweden comfortably. This suggests that these teams are not clear cut better than us.

[lopez]

...Denmark are a clear cut-above ROI.LOL :D

Nice to see you are spreading your bullsh*t to threads not connected with NI.

[Maroon 7]

Whatever about Sweden (haven't seen them play in a bit) there is no way Denmark are a class above us. Yes it was a friendly but they had more or less their full team out when we hammered them in Copenhagen. I fancy they are every bit as average as we are let alone a class above us.

[ifk101]

Whatever about Sweden (haven't seen them play in a bit) there is no way Denmark are a class above us. Yes it was a friendly but they had more or less their full team out when we hammered them in Copenhagen. I fancy they are every bit as average as we are let alone a class above us.

Århus not København.

I think Denmark probably has a better pick of players than what we have but we have beaten them comprehensively in our last two meetings - so they're obviously not clear cut better than us. If I remember correctly we beat them 3-0 in Lansdowne a few years back.

[Torn-Ado]

Interesting to read in the local Swedish paper this morning that they rated Ireland's group as the easiest. They reckon Englands was the toughest.

Whether that means that they don't rate us is debatable.

[galwayhoop]

And NI will suddenly remember that they were always, in fact, crap and immediately start playing like it in every game.

ahh at last we are on the same page....... :D:D

if we played tomorrow, imo neither team would hammer the other, contary to your assertion earlier in the thread.

[ifk101]

Interesting to read in the local Swedish paper this morning that they rated Ireland's group as the easiest. They reckon Englands was the toughest.

Whether that means that they don't rate us is debatable.

What paper was that?

[galwayhoop]

Interesting to read in the local Swedish paper this morning that they rated Ireland's group as the easiest. They reckon Englands was the toughest.

Whether that means that they don't rate us is debatable.

in fairness after the last campaign most teams would not rate us. one point from cyprus, draw with welsh, slovakia, one point from czechs and germans. at least 10 points off qualification.

BUT i don't think outsiders would realise how poorly we underperformed in our last few groups. i reckon (hope maybe) that if we get a good manager in we can compete for at the least a play-off from this group.

[Torn-Ado]

What paper was that?

Metro. I know, I know, its a fairly cack paper but tahtw as their opinion all the same.

[Hibernian]

dream on. while ye are getting good results at home ye still very rarely beat teams by more than a goal - the above exception being liechtenstein. yet you would expect to hammer us???? of the teams listed above the Irish team, at this moment in time, would sit somewhere in the same stakes as sweden / denmark. in that we would be reasonably confident playing either team (and they of us i am sure).

.

Agree

Going off the topic here I know but Norn Iron would not put fear of god into anyone and I mean anyone

[CollegeTillIDie]

Agree

Going off the topic here I know but Norn Iron would not put fear of god into anyone and I mean anyone

The way the Sythe played in the recent campaign they(i.e. N.I.) would beat us handily!:cool: