View Full Version : Saudi Arabian justice.
Dubai is a major tourist resort that is rammed to the rafters with non-Muslims. It is an extremely liberal country in its apoproach to non-Muslims, and you can do whetever the feck you like during Ramadam. I therefore suspect that the store you've recounted, if true, was just an example of an arse-hoole taxi driver. If some aul biddy in Ireland castifgated you for eating a steak sandwich on a Friday, would that suddenly make us a fundamentalist state....?
Possibly seperate laws for the tourists and the residents, I know for example she is not allowed have males in her apartment after a certain hour, that's more of a company law (Emirates) than a national law, but hardly bodes well for this extremely liberal country you speak of.
Furthermore I haven't lived there, nor have you, so I'm gonna take her word about how liberal the place is over any of us
dcfcsteve
22/11/2007, 8:09 PM
Possibly seperate laws for the tourists and the residents, I know for example she is not allowed have males in her apartment after a certain hour, that's more of a company law (Emirates) than a national law, but hardly bodes well for this extremely liberal country you speak of.
Furthermore I haven't lived there, nor have you, so I'm gonna take her word about how liberal the place is over any of us
I've been to Dubai. I have a female friend who's Dad has been living there for about 4 years, and who visits there regularly. I'm off there again myself for New Year's. Admittedly I haven't lived there, but neither do I know nothing about the place.
It's liberal re tourists. How else do you think the likes of Posh Spice and loads of other super-rich famous people are gonna get on there in the fancy homes they've just bought on the Palm development if it was such a repressive regime for visitors ??
As for non-visitors - less than 20% of the population of the country is indigenous anyway.
cheifo
23/11/2007, 12:18 AM
Based on evidence you present DCFC Steve and our own experience in this country there appears to be a very simple equation.The more Religon is prevelant in a state particularly where it influences legislation=a decrease in individual freedoms and what we would now regard as human rights abuses(or downright cruelty).
Any exception to this rule?I know it is sometimes claimed that Religons gave societies standards of behaviour and structure where there was previously just the law of the jungle.It seems that all the major religons have been a bad deal for Women,Gay people, other denominations when it is woven into state law. Excuse me I am waffling.:o
dcfcsteve
24/11/2007, 12:56 AM
Based on evidence you present DCFC Steve and our own experience in this country there appears to be a very simple equation.The more Religon is prevelant in a state particularly where it influences legislation=a decrease in individual freedoms and what we would now regard as human rights abuses(or downright cruelty).
Any exception to this rule?I know it is sometimes claimed that Religons gave societies standards of behaviour and structure where there was previously just the law of the jungle.It seems that all the major religons have been a bad deal for Women,Gay people, other denominations when it is woven into state law. Excuse me I am waffling.:o
You're essentially right, but you're looking at the wrong thing here - or at least you're looking at it in isolation.
Religion is essentially an 'ideology'. One based upon spirituality in essence, but in its desire to ensure its adherents live their lives in a certain way it is essentially no different to regimes such as communism, fascism etc.
So - it is obvious to say that where religion influences legislation, individuals will be less free to do what they want. Because that is the whole idea. But the same is true with divine-right monarchy, communism, fascism, dictatorship etc etc. Where any ideology that claims it has the right and the 'answers' to tell people how they should live is given access to legislation,then it will obviously seek to enforce that viewpoint. Religion is no different in this than many other 'ideologies'. Even the opposite of religion in states - militant secularism - is no better than religion in this (e.g. the way religion was crushed in Communist Russia).
Saint Tom
29/11/2007, 11:54 AM
As an aside, it is 'illegal' to sell drink in Thailand on the king's birthday.
I don't think the friend you've mentioned wouldd hold that country up as an extremist state however....
same goes for pubs closing here on Christmas day
Iranian child victim of prostitution (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/crossing_continents/7107379.stm)
Iranian child rapped by brothers accused of incest & was due to be hanged until appeal. Maybe it really is about religion & not just politics? I think Iranian situation not as wide spead & poverty a contributing factor...
Thunderblaster
29/11/2007, 9:17 PM
What about the Liverpool teacher in Sudan facing 40 lashes over the kids calling a teddy bear Muhammed?
dcfcsteve
02/12/2007, 4:12 AM
What about the Liverpool teacher in Sudan facing 40 lashes over the kids calling a teddy bear Muhammed?
What about it.....?
What about thousands of kids in Ireland being involuntarily fcuked-up the ass by the Christrian Brothers - including my neighbour in London? Are either indicative of their particular faith.....? :rolleyes:
Thunderblaster
02/12/2007, 12:59 PM
What about it.....?
Check it out on http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7123420.stm.
dcfcsteve
02/12/2007, 5:25 PM
Check it out on http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7123420.stm.
I've been bombarded with it by the English media all week thanks.
But what's your point here....? :confused:
Thunderblaster
03/12/2007, 9:40 PM
I've been bombarded with it by the English media all week thanks.
But what's your point here....? :confused:
Sudanese justice=Saudi Arabian justice.
dcfcsteve
04/12/2007, 12:09 AM
Sudanese justice=Saudi Arabian justice.
American justice=Irish justice......? :confused:
jamie m
08/12/2007, 10:31 PM
whatever people may personally think about the types of punishment dished out in places like saudia arabia and sudan the one thing i find hypocritical is countries like the u.k getting on their moral high horse while the uk themselves are quite happy to intern "terrorists" in belmarsh or guantanamo without trial for years at a time,
Block G Raptor
13/12/2007, 11:08 AM
whatever people may personally think about the types of punishment dished out in places like saudia arabia and sudan the one thing i find hypocritical is countries like the u.k getting on their moral high horse while the uk themselves are quite happy to intern "terrorists" in belmarsh or guantanamo without trial for years at a time,
As opposed to loping off they're heads or hanging them? Whilst I am as against internment without trial in UK/US as i was in NI. it's a lot better than what a brit or Yank would get for the same accusations in Saudi or Pakistan or wherever
jamie m
15/12/2007, 10:26 AM
As opposed to loping off they're heads or hanging them? Whilst I am as against internment without trial in UK/US as i was in NI. it's a lot better than what a brit or Yank would get for the same accusations in Saudi or Pakistan or wherever
im opposed to the death penalty and all forms of torture whatever country hands it out and that the way in which that teacher in sudan was treated was ridiculous, all im saying is that im not going to listen to a moral lecture from the countries that gave us guantanamo,abu ghraib the iraq and afghanistan wars, cia torture flights to detention centres where limbs are broken, waterboarding is carried etc,
im opposed to the death penalty and all forms of torture whatever country hands it out and that the way in which that teacher in sudan was treated was ridiculous, all im saying is that im not going to listen to a moral lecture from the countries that gave us guantanamo,abu ghraib the iraq and afghanistan wars, cia torture flights to detention centres where limbs are broken, waterboarding is carried etc,
You are comparing idiotic teacher with Guantanamo?
BTW the US actually has an official list of acceptable torture :eek:
jamie m
15/12/2007, 2:59 PM
You are comparing idiotic teacher with Guantanamo?
BTW the US actually has an official list of acceptable torture :eek:
im not comparing what the teacher went throught with what goes on in guantanamo, my general point is that i think countries like the us/uk have no right to criticse the treatment of that teacher in sudan when you take into consideration their own poor records on respecting human rights,international law, fair trials, due process,etc
GavinZac
17/12/2007, 10:04 PM
im not comparing what the teacher went throught with what goes on in guantanamo, my general point is that i think countries like the us/uk have no right to criticse the treatment of that teacher in sudan when you take into consideration their own poor records on respecting human rights,international law, fair trials, due process,etc
frankly, hypocrisy is better than silence, in this case.
kingdom hoop
17/12/2007, 10:25 PM
If we were waiting for he without sin to cast the first stone then the stones of this world would be wasting away from inactivity. And they can still rock so that just wouldn't be right.
don't worry I've one arm in the sleeve of my coat already :)
The Saudi King pardoned the woman in question today. Apparently it is some holiday that he traditionally pardons convicts on.
osarusan
18/12/2007, 9:08 AM
my general point is that i think countries like the us/uk have no right to criticse the treatment of that teacher in sudan when you take into consideration their own poor records on respecting human rights,international law, fair trials, due process,etc
It would certainly be hypocritical, but their criticism would still be valid.
Anyway, she has been pardoned.
What I didn't realise at the time, and the media never seemed to mention it, was that the guy who was with her at the time was also raped, and he was given the same initial sentence as her. I don't know if he has been pardoned also.
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