Arsenal

[see's it]

the gunners went back on top tonight and with a game in hand i know its still early but the way they play the game and with the players they have utd,liverpool and chelsea will have to do something special to win the league this season

[L37Ultra]

[quote=see's it;813209 utd,liverpool and chelsea will have to do something special to win the league this season[/quote]


And Man City ;)

[Roadend]

We'll see when the the African nations comes around. Toure will be a big loss.

[shanman2]

the gunners went back on top tonight and with a game in hand i know its still early but the way they play the game and with the players they have utd,liverpool and chelsea will have to do something special to win the league this season

Im afraid Sees it you have lost it. Man Utd are the team to beat this year. They have by fair the best side/squad they have had since 99. Arsenal have a good first 11 anything after that is just mediocre (much like United last year) only this year they face the most attacking minded team in England. Gilberto will leave in January you could see was upset on the bench against Reading, Eboue and Toure both leave for African Nations. Togo DNQ so Adebayor stays. In contrast to Man Utd Scholes out Anderson in, Hargreaves out Carrick in, Ronaldo out Nani in etc, Do you still think Arsenal are the team to beat?????:confused::confused:

[Lim till i die]

In contrast to Man Utd Scholes out Anderson in, Hargreaves out Carrick in, Ronaldo out Nani in etc, Do you still think Arsenal are the team to beat?????:confused::confused:

What have Anderson and Nani done to prove they are any less "mediocre" than Arsenals kids??

Also, Carrick is poor

[Roadend]

only this year they face the most attacking minded team in England. :
Are you referring to Utd. here? You obviously didn't see the Arsenal- Utd game then?

[shanman2]

What have Anderson and Nani done to prove they are any less "mediocre" than Arsenals kids??

Also, Carrick is poor

If I am not mistaken Nani has scored three vital goals already this year. None more important than Vs Spurs, along with a fine display in the charity shield.
Anderson- if you bothered to check the tackles and passing stats you would find he puts in more tackles a game than Nemanja Vidic and has a 82% completion rate with his passing. Carrick poor the lad with the most passes completed in the premiership last season and correct me if I am wrong, but does Carrick have a premiership medal???:confused:

[shanman2]

Are you referring to Utd. here? You obviously didn't see the Arsenal- Utd game then?

I am refering to United!!! I did see the game at Arsenal. Arsenal vs United did united play that day? reason I say that say that is because you seem to think we don't play FOOTBALL. Adding in the fact that United like to have players actualy from manchester and england instead ripping apart the continent in search of talent!!

[GavinZac]

If I am not mistaken Nani has scored three vital goals already this year. None more important than Vs Spurs, along with a fine display in the charity shield.
Anderson- if you bothered to check the tackles and passing stats you would find he puts in more tackles a game than Nemanja Vidic and has a 82% completion rate with his passing. Carrick poor the lad with the most passes completed in the premiership last season and correct me if I am wrong, but does Carrick have a premiership medal???:confused:

Are you American? Stats, by and large, mean little in football.

[shanman2]

Are you American? Stats, by and large, mean little in football.

They mean more than you think, for example frank Lampard was leading goalscorer from midfield, why is it that this is the case basically, he takes more shots from outside the box than any other player in the premiership.

[Roadend]

I am refering to United!!! I did see the game at Arsenal. Arsenal vs United did united play that day? reason I say that say that is because you seem to think we don't play FOOTBALL. Adding in the fact that United like to have players actualy from manchester and england instead ripping apart the continent in search of talent!!

Oh like the 8 foriegners who started on Sunday, I see. Good point well made.

[shanman2]

Oh like the 8 foriegners who started on Sunday, I see. Good point well made.

Thats three more than Arsenal then???? Plus 4 injured who would push for the first 11

[Roadend]

Was Carrick Utd's last english purchase as opposed to the extensive ripping apart of the continent? Hargreaves being canadian and all.

[Stuttgart88]

Who cares where the players are from in the context of who has the better team this year?

Rather than blaming foreigners for everything, the point was made on R5 Live last night that the English should be looking to the way Arsenal play and learn from it. Only then would England be capable of really threatening in major tournaments.

Anyway, I'm an Arsenal fan and think United will ultimately be stronger this year. Both teams are at their strongest in a long time I think.

[shanman2]

Was Carrick Utd's last english purchase as opposed to the extensive ripping apart of the continent? Hargreaves being canadian and all.

Well like the english contingent at United are as follows (NOT INCLUDING PLAYERS OUT ON LOAN OR PLAYERS FROM UK OR IRELAND)
Ben Foster, Wes Brown, Rio Ferdinand, Gary Neville, Danny Simpson, Paul Scholes, Wayne Rooney, Mickey Carrick. Could you please name the Arsenals English talent (walcott is the only one off hand I could think of). Good comment last night on the match by the Setanta commentary " Sagna one part of an all french speaking back four":eek::eek:

[Stuttgart88]

again, so what?

[shanman2]

Who cares where the players are from in the context of who has the better team this year?

Rather than blaming foreigners for everything, the point was made on R5 Live last night that the English should be looking to the way Arsenal play and learn from it. Only then would England be capable of really threatening in major tournaments.

Anyway, I'm an Arsenal fan and think United will ultimately be stronger this year. Both teams are at their strongest in a long time I think.

Surely Arsene Wengers scouts could find some English talent and develope it.

[cheifo]

Yes UTD have awesome attacking pwoer this season especially if Nani and Anderson continue to develop.Their problem could be if Arsenal maintain their consistency.If its close coming into the final weeks of the season anthing can happen.Despite what Dunphy sayes Ronaldo will be a huge force to be reckoned with but then again Hargreaves and Carrick are English donkeys compared to Fabregas.

[Roadend]

Who cares where the players are from in the context of who has the better team this year?

I couldn't care less, but the notion that Utd. are only after English talent was rib tickling.

[shanman2]

Yes UTD have awesome attacking pwoer this season especially if Nani and Anderson continue to develop.Their problem could be if Arsenal maintain their consistency.If its close coming into the final weeks of the season anthing can happen.Despite what Dunphy sayes Ronaldo will be a huge force to be reckoned with but then again Hargreaves and Carrick are English donkeys compared to Fabregas.

You cant compare Hargreaves to Fabregas they do two different jobs on the pitch!! Scholes to Fabregas is the one you want to look at. Scholes just shades it. I really hope hope Anderson continues his form of late he looks like a fantastic player.

[Roadend]

Scholes to Fabregas is the one you want to look at. Scholes just shades it.

Scholes is one of the few Utd. players I actually admire, but on this season thusfar, Fabregas is shading it without a shadow of a doubt.

[shanman2]

Scholes is one of the few Utd. players I actually admire, but on this season thusfar, Fabregas is shading it without a shadow of a doubt.

You cant help but admire Paul Scholes his passing is unbelievable

[osarusan]

Well like the english contingent at United are as follows (NOT INCLUDING PLAYERS OUT ON LOAN OR PLAYERS FROM UK OR IRELAND)
Ben Foster, Wes Brown, Rio Ferdinand, Gary Neville, Danny Simpson, Paul Scholes, Wayne Rooney, Mickey Carrick. Could you please name the Arsenals English talent (walcott is the only one off hand I could think of). Good comment last night on the match by the Setanta commentary " Sagna one part of an all french speaking back four":eek::eek:

You must be very proud of how United have helped to develop the squad of a national team which is not yours.

The thread is supposed to be about whether Arsenal are good enough to win the league, not who develops more homegrown talent.

Do you think that Arsenal fans give a crap that the back four is not English?

Do you think that United felt their European Cup victory in 99 was cheapened because they had only 4 English players in the team, whereas Bayern had 10 Germans?

[Stuttgart88]

Surely Arsene Wengers scouts could find some English talent and develope it.Like they did with Ashley Cole.

Again, though, why does it matter?

The original purpose of the thread was to garner opinion on who was more likely to win the league this year.

If the purpose of the thread was to debate "which club does more to develop English talent?" or "which club contrubutes more to the strength of the English national team?" then it'd be more clear cut, just as it would be if the purpose of the thread was to ask "which club has spent a fortune that most clubs can't match on English players?".

Anyway, I think it'd be a very churlish fan of either team to deny that each is playing fantastic football at the moment. The style is different but both entertain and are pleasing on the eye.

[cheifo]

Anderson looks like he is going to be quite a player.I disgree about Scholes though.Still a good player but hes knocking on and Fabregas is atm the leading light in the Premiership.If he stays fit then Arsenal have a chance.
I cant see Liverpool competing even though they are unbeaten and Chelsea cannot afford to drop many more points.Early days but it looks like it could be a mouth watering duel between Arsenal and Man U.

[Roadend]

Is Sendaros going to fill the gap when Toure is off at the african nations? Who else is invloved?

[see's it]

carrick has a prem medal so what stuart ripley has 1 aswell that doesnt make him a good player.

[see's it]

Is Sendaros going to fill the gap when Toure is off at the african nations? Who else is invloved?

wenger has 50 million to spend and with gilberto and lehmann leaving in jan i think he'l buy a centre half in the transfer window

[jebus]

Love how jealous United fans are of Wenger. Anyway United nurturing home talent? Outside of Kidd's United team who has Ferguson brought through? He spent nearly £30 million on Carrick, Rooney, and Hargreaves each, and over £30 million on that hack Ferdinand. Just get over the fact that Wenger is a better manager than Sir Fergie and move on

[Stevo Da Gull]

Like they did with Ashley Cole.

Again, though, why does it matter?

The original purpose of the thread was to garner opinion on who was more likely to win the league this year.


Bang on. On the subject though, as a Bray fan I wouldn't care if there were no Irish players in the Bray team if we were going to be successful - it's not feckin International football. One final thing, English players = overpriced! Why dish out over E30m on Rio Ferdinand when you could get Toure for £150,000:confused:

As an Arsenal fan, I'm probably going to be a bit biased, but I'm not really buying all of Fergie's talk, over 50% of what he says should be taken with a pinch of salt IMO. As for Arsenal, I'm not sure where we'll finish this year, after watching most/all of their matches I don't think they've quite clicked into top gear - which could be a good thing or a bad thing. It'll certainly be interesting when January comes to see how much activity there will be at the top clubs.

[Metrostars]

...
As an Arsenal fan, I'm probably going to be a bit biased, but I'm not really buying all of Fergie's talk, over 50% of what he says should be taken with a pinch of salt IMO. ....Right about that. He just likes to stir the pot...


Love how jealous United fans are of Wenger. Anyway United nurturing home talent? Outside of Kidd's United team who has Ferguson brought through? He spent nearly £30 million on Carrick, Rooney, and Hargreaves each, and over £30 million on that hack Ferdinand. Just get over the fact that Wenger is a better manager than Sir Fergie and move on

Oh please. I wont go through what Man Utd have won under Ferguson but statistics dont lie.

I admire Arsenal and they way they've played this season. But they havent won anything yet and there is long way to go. So get back to me next May to continue this discussion.

[shanman2]

Love how jealous United fans are of Wenger. Anyway United nurturing home talent? Outside of Kidd's United team who has Ferguson brought through? He spent nearly £30 million on Carrick, Rooney, and Hargreaves each, and over £30 million on that hack Ferdinand. Just get over the fact that Wenger is a better manager than Sir Fergie and move on

Wenger hasn't brought through much talent he bought most of the players when they were 16/17. EG Walcott, Fabregas, Senderos, Toure, Eboue the list goes on!!! You might just tell me an un-educated fan what players actually started at the club as kids???

[MyTown]

I'm an Arsenal supporter, so obviously I think Arsene Wenger is a better manager than Sir Alex Ferguson. More importantly for me, Wenger is a much more decent human being.

Ferguson's record speaks for itself, and he is far and away the most SUCCESSFUL boss in the history of British (possibly World?) football, so full credit where it's due. But as a man, IMO, he's something we're well used to on Foot....he's a WUM.

[cheifo]

Chelsea dont seem to annoy Fergie near as much as Arsenal, proably because Arsenal get lavished with praise for the football they play.

[Roadend]

Ferguson's record speaks for itself, and he is far and away the most SUCCESSFUL boss in the history of British (possibly World?) football, so full credit where it's due. .

Yes his three European cups stand out for me, oh wait......

[shanman2]

Yes his three European cups stand out for me, oh wait......

He has won three european tropies!!!:eek:

[see's it]

could fergie have done the same job as wenger i dont think so but wenger would have prob done alot better in fergies position

[jebus]

Wenger hasn't brought through much talent he bought most of the players when they were 16/17. EG Walcott, Fabregas, Senderos, Toure, Eboue the list goes on!!! You might just tell me an un-educated fan what players actually started at the club as kids???

United fans and their obsession with Arsenal :D

Wenger never claims to bring through kids for the team, he selects the finest from around the world and trains them up to a higher level then they could hope to reach and practically every other club in the world.

Ferguson on the other hand mouths off about foreigners on a weekly basis, despite the fact he has done the same thing as Wenger, only less successfully. That's the difference you see, Wenger is better


could fergie have done the same job as wenger i dont think so but wenger would have prob done alot better in fergies position

And that right there is the winning quote of the thread

[GavinZac]

Ferguson on the other hand mouths off about foreigners on a weekly basis, despite the fact he has done the same thing as Wenger, only less successfully. That's the difference you see, Wenger is better

LESS successfully?
By what definition?

[jebus]

LESS successfully?
By what definition?

By the definition of jebus

[GavinZac]

By the definition of jebus

I trust you, you're occasionally right :p

[jebus]

I trust you, you're occasionally right :p

It has been known to happen on occasion

[see's it]

im tipsy after the celebrations post of the thread is a great honour

[Thomo]

Surely Arsene Wengers scouts could find some English talent and develope it.


Unfortunately, young english talent costs way over the odds due to the general lack of it coming through, so its cheaper to go and get players from around the world and bring them in, and to be honest, the arsenal style requires players of a certain technical capacity which is, no offence to anyone, i think rarely seen in english talent, its just a continental thing, and thats the balance of those continental factors going up against and the english grit which makes the league so exciting to watch.

But back on topic, :) As an arsenal fan, i think we're playing well, but its early days, you have to respect ferguson and united, but arsenal respect united, not fear united, which makes a big difference. Arsenal have a togetherness in the team not seen since the unbeaten run ( and yes before you mention it we do all know who ended it), but we shall see who wins in may. If we don't win it, its no big loss, wenger has built a team of youngsters, who if they stay together should dominate the league for years to come!

[DmanDmythDledge]

Also, Carrick is poor
:eek: First Scott Brown, now Carrick. If you're being serious you're clueless when it comes to football.

[gustavo]

Unfortunately, young english talent costs way over the odds due to the general lack of it coming through, so its cheaper to go and get players from around the world and bring them in, and to be honest, the arsenal style requires players of a certain technical capacity which is, no offence to anyone, i think rarely seen in english talent, its just a continental thing, and thats the balance of those continental factors going up against and the english grit which makes the league so exciting to watch.

But back on topic, :) As an arsenal fan, i think we're playing well, but its early days, you have to respect ferguson and united, but arsenal respect united, not fear united, which makes a big difference. Arsenal have a togetherness in the team not seen since the unbeaten run ( and yes before you mention it we do all know who ended it), but we shall see who wins in may. If we don't win it, its no big loss, wenger has built a team of youngsters, who if they stay together should dominate the league for years to come!
They have a few good English youngsters now though , the llikes of Kieran Gibbs and Rhys Murphy all look promising.

[jebus]

Wenger was in FourFourTwo this month saying that some of the English players in the national U-17 side are fantastic and that he's trying to get a few on board

[L37Ultra]

:eek: First Scott Brown, now Carrick. If you're being serious you're clueless when it comes to football.


Carrick is poor. Who would you rather have in your team? Fabregras or Carrick? Its not Wegners fault the foregin players are better quality than the English players. You hardly think he looks at thier nationality and says "oh no there english i wont sign them" :ball:

[see's it]

technically english players wouldnt even be in the top 10/15 in the world as wenger likes his teams to play the game properly it makes sense to buy players who are technically better than english players.all wengers players only need 1 touch to control the ball and then its a pass most of the rest of the league need 2/3 touches to get it down then its a punt forward

[DmanDmythDledge]

Carrick is poor. Who would you rather have in your team? Fabregras or Carrick? Its not Wegners fault the foregin players are better quality than the English players. You hardly think he looks at thier nationality and says "oh no there english i wont sign them" :ball:
:confused: Where did I mention anything about Fabregas?

Anyway there must be something in the water down in Limerick. Carrick is class, in my opinion better than Gerrard and Lampard. He is not the typical 'English midfielder' as he his technique and vision are the main parts of his game. He can also control a game from midfield. He is one of those players who always appears to have that extra second on the ball, which is down to his class.