A Championship

[kingdomkerry]

What is it and who is going to be in it?????

[Mr A]

Premier sides will have to enter reserve teams in it for a start. Optional for D1 teams.

[Pablo Escobar]

What is it and who is going to be in it?????
I'd love to know, but afaik nothing has been mentioned bout 'who' will be in it yet.

We can speculate though. A team from Kerry....? surely!

[olegunnar]

expect to see sporting fingal as well, read it last week

[kingdomkerry]

Hopefully, its about time kerry had a team in the LOI. Plenty of talent in the county anyway. I think it would be a disaster if premier reserve teams were in there.

It should be teams who might in the future enter teams in the league proper. ie Kerry, Mayo, Fingal etc

[Pablo Escobar]

expect to see sporting fingal as well, read it last week

Yeah they're a shoe-in alright.
What about Mullingar?

[half_full]

As said already, reserves of each Premier side (who cant be promoted).

Sporting Fingal, will surely be accepted, havent heard of any other clubs expressing an interest:confused:


A new club in Carlow, South East F.C., are aiming for the new U-20 league AFAIK

[Sam_Heggy]

Letterkenny Rovers and Fanad Utd are rumoured to be applying.

[Pablo Escobar]

As said already, reserves of each Premier side (who cant be promoted).

Sporting Fingal, will surely be accepted, havent heard of any other clubs expressing an interest:confused:


A new club in Carlow, South East F.C., are aiming for the new U-20 league AFAIK
Carlow is definitely big enough for an EL club.

In Cork, Douglas Hall and Avondale have easily good enough squads.
Rockmount and College Corinthians would also be options, but you'd have to wonder how these clubs would fare if they went up.

[Terry]

Castlebar Celtic, Salthill Devon and Ballinasloe town are other names being thrown in.

[A face]

As said already, reserves of each Premier side (who cant be promoted).

What say what now?

[gael353]

Hopefully, its about time kerry had a team in the LOI. Plenty of talent in the county anyway.


cant agree with that. the support which existed a few yars ago when kerry first came on the scene has vanised and i think Kerry being in the A division will be a good thing for them and they should do well in it with the seasoned LOI players which they possess. Their pitch is a disgrace as well

[CollegeTillIDie]

Gael353

The A League will be used to groom new clubs for the First Division in future as well as being a platform for reserve players to get regular football. It's like a Spanish 3rd Division where real clubs play reserve team of Primera Liga clubs who are based in other towns.
In Spain and other countries where reserve teams are allowed play in lower Divisions they are prohibited from getting promoted to higher divisions whereas real clubs are allowed to go up and down as per normal.

[Poor Student]

If I remember correctly there's a €5k registration fee for this division. Apart from Sporting Fingal all is very quiet on this front at the moment. Does anyone know if any other clubs applied for the spot that Wexford Youths got last year?

[osarusan]

In Spain and other countries where reserve teams are allowed play in lower Divisions they are prohibited from getting promoted to higher divisions whereas real clubs are allowed to go up and down as per normal.

So if Ronaldinho, for example, was working his way back from an injury, he could play a game or two for the reserves an the Spanish 3rd division? Interesting.

As a point of interest, whereabouts do the reserve teams usually finish in the table?

[listowelceltic]

cant agree with that. the support which existed a few yars ago when kerry first came on the scene has vanised and i think Kerry being in the A division will be a good thing for them and they should do well in it with the seasoned LOI players which they possess. Their pitch is a disgrace as well
If kerry enter this a championship,which is 99% certain at the moment,the buisness men taking over the venture have plans to bring the the pitch up to LOI standards and to extend main stand. Agree with you about the support though.

[kingdomkerry]

cant agree with that. the support which existed a few yars ago when kerry first came on the scene has vanised and i think Kerry being in the A division will be a good thing for them and they should do well in it with the seasoned LOI players which they possess. Their pitch is a disgrace as well

Because Jackmam Park is the envy of every club in Europe!!

[pixiehead]

I would be very surprised if Castlebar Celtic dont enter a team here in Mayo. They have already entered a team in the under 21 eircom League. However like Kerry they wont get a huge following

[dcfcsteve]

If the main benefit of the A Division is to tee-up future entrants to the League proper, then it will prove a useful thing to have. Too often the league has had to go scrabbling for replacement clubs at short notice - meaning those who enter may not have been the preferred option had there been a longer notice period.

On the downside - this benefit to the A League is contingent upon existing senior clubs either dropping out, or being consistently very poor and finishing bottom regularly. Neither of which we should want to see in the league.

I could see an expansion of the EL by 2 more teams at some future point, giving each division equal numbers, but no more beyond that.

Anyways - makes sense to give us more a pyramid structure to football south of the border.

[Kildare Lad]

Just a question, say for example Bray get relegated next season and Dundalk get promoted, will Brays B Team be taken out and Dundalk forced to put one in?

[Schumi]

Just a question, say for example Bray get relegated next season and Dundalk get promoted, will Brays B Team be taken out and Dundalk forced to put one in?First division teams can enter a reserve team in the A division but don't have to. Relegated teams could decide to remove their team if they wanted but I'd imagine most teams would enter a team. A promoted team would have to enter a team.

[gustavo]

So if Ronaldinho, for example, was working his way back from an injury, he could play a game or two for the reserves an the Spanish 3rd division? Interesting.


Dont think it would work like that as you have to register with one of the teams at the start of the season

[osarusan]

Dont think it would work like that as you have to register with one of the teams at the start of the season

But I'm guessing teams don't usually register players on a reserve team, as very often it will have "first team" players recovering from injury. I may be wrong though, but it would seem to nullify one of the reasons for having a reserve team.

[holidaysong]

As far as I remember from Football Manager once you are registered for the first team you are automatically registered for the reserve team too...

Edit - Also in the new FM is the First divison relegation playoff between bottom in the first and winner of the A Championship. I think this is a good idea as it will make things at the bottom of the first more interesting.

[Dodge]

So if Ronaldinho, for example, was working his way back from an injury, he could play a game or two for the reserves an the Spanish 3rd division? Interesting.

As a point of interest, whereabouts do the reserve teams usually finish in the table?


But I'm guessing teams don't usually register players on a reserve team, as very often it will have "first team" players recovering from injury. I may be wrong though, but it would seem to nullify one of the reasons for having a reserve team.

In Spain they're not reserve teams, they're B and C teams. Players can move up, but can't move down if they've played a certain amount of games for the First team. So Ronaldinho can't play for Barca B but the star of barca B can play for the first team in emergencies. I think there might be a rule about under 23s too

In terms of results they don't really excel as they're usually made up of kids playing in mans league. Real Madrid's B team (now called Real Madrid Castilla) lost the Spanish Cup final in 1980 to their first team. As Real had won the league their reserves went into the Cup Winners Cup. They're no longer allowed in the Cup

[Titan]

Real Madrids B team were relegated to the 3rd division at the end of last season hvaing played in the Segunda(?) division that year. I saw a few games on Realmadrid TV (STOP SNIGGERING I have a life honest I do) and there were 1 or 2 first teamers playing so not sure about the no first team regulars playing

Of course maybe they were bangers!

[galwayhoop]

On the downside - this benefit to the A League is contingent upon existing senior clubs either dropping out, or being consistently very poor and finishing bottom regularly. Neither of which we should want to see in the league.

Wrong. Each season the winner of the A league will have a play-off against the bottom team in Div 1 (Similar to Prem/1st Div Play-off). In theory an A division team could be in the Premier Division in 2 seasons!!

It should make the first division much more competitive with the threat of relegation looming for the division bottom feeders!

[dcfcsteve]

Wrong. Each season the winner of the A league will have a play-off against the bottom team in Div 1 (Similar to Prem/1st Div Play-off). In theory an A division team could be in the Premier Division in 2 seasons!!

It should make the first division much more competitive with the threat of relegation looming for the division bottom feeders!

Is it confirmed that the winners of A League will be in a play-off ?

Would the A-League winners of that play-off automatically be promoted ? What if they don't want to be - as many won't from a financial etc point of view ?

What if, say, first place in the A League goes to a Reserve team - what would be the point in them playing for promotion ? Would it then go to 2nd place team instead - in which point it would become daft. Or would there just not be a play-off in any year that a Reserve team won - making a bit of a lottery/mockery of the whole relegation playoff thing ? And if a Reserve team did win it, and the play-off place then went to the second placed team - what if they were also a Reserve team ? All of this is highly feasable at some point.

So it seems very far from clear what the actual plan is regarding any proposed promotion/relegation re the A League.

[Danny]

read page 9 & 10 of this http://www.fai.ie/merger/pdf/eircomLeague-proposals.pdf

should answer your questions (that is once the fai havent changed the idea)

[Mr A]

As I remember it to qualify for a playoff a non-reserve team would have to come in the top four as well as finishing ahead of other non-reserve teams. If the league is split they would have to play off against any team in a similar scenario in the other half before earning the right to challenge the D1 bottom team. I assume they would have to fulfil licensing to actually enter the league though.

[galwayhoop]

Is it confirmed that the winners of A League will be in a play-off ?yes, well insofar as that is the proposal.


Would the A-League winners of that play-off automatically be promoted ? What if they don't want to be - as many won't from a financial etc point of view ?it will come down to licensing if they are awarded a 1st division license they will go up. afaik the participation agreement will require them to make themselves available for promotion, if they don't want to then don't enter the A league in the first place, or don't reach the promotion places!!!


What if, say, first place in the A League goes to a Reserve team - what would be the point in them playing for promotion ? Would it then go to 2nd place team instead - in which point it would become daft.if the winner is a reserve team then it goes to the highest placed non-reserve team (provided they finish in the top 4 of the section).

i understand the format is as follows:

either 2, 3 or 4 regionalised divisions in the A league (depending on the number of accepted teams). apparently all premier division teams are obliged to enter a (reserve) team, first division teams are encouraged and then some outside teams, like those listed earlier, will be invited also.
supposedly the winners of each section (or highest placed non-reserve team if in the top 4) play off against each other.
the winner of this/these play-offs then plays a 2 legged play-off against the bottom team in the first division.
whoever wins this then plays in the first division provided they meet licensing requirements.



So it seems very far from clear what the actual plan is regarding any proposed promotion/relegation re the A League.
unclear if you are going on hearsay, however if you read the eircom league proposals document (http://www.fai.ie/merger/pdf/eircomLeague-proposals.pdf) (pages 9&10 in particular) it is quite straight forward - again insofar as this is the framework of what is proposed, it may alter slightly on implementation

[Dodge]

As I remember it to qualify for a playoff a non-reserve team would have to come in the top four as well as finishing ahead of other non-reserve teams. If the league is split they would have to play off against any team in a similar scenario in the other half before earning the right to challenge the D1 bottom team. I assume they would have to fulfil licensing to actually enter the league though.

Very good of you to sponsor it too Mr A

[dcfcsteve]

yes, well insofar as that is the proposal.

it will come down to licensing if they are awarded a 1st division license they will go up. afaik the participation agreement will require them to make themselves available for promotion, if they don't want to then don't enter the A league in the first place, or don't reach the promotion places!!!

if the winner is a reserve team then it goes to the highest placed non-reserve team (provided they finish in the top 4 of the section).

i understand the format is as follows:

either 2, 3 or 4 regionalised divisions in the A league (depending on the number of accepted teams). apparently all premier division teams are obliged to enter a (reserve) team, first division teams are encouraged and then some outside teams, like those listed earlier, will be invited also.
supposedly the winners of each section (or highest placed non-reserve team if in the top 4) play off against each other.
the winner of this/these play-offs then plays a 2 legged play-off against the bottom team in the first division.
whoever wins this then plays in the first division provided they meet licensing requirements.



unclear if you are going on hearsay, however if you read the eircom league proposals document (http://www.fai.ie/merger/pdf/eircomLeague-proposals.pdf) (pages 9&10 in particular) it is quite straight forward - again insofar as this is the framework of what is proposed, it may alter slightly on implementation

Thanks for clarifying GalwayHoop. I think my natural scepticism of the FAI was getting in the way here, as it does look like they've actually thought something through properly for once...! :)

Thanks again.

[Mr A]

Very good of you to sponsor it too Mr A

You know how it is, you go out for a quiet pint and the next thing you wake up with a raging hangover and discover you've sponsored a reasonably major football competition.

You'd think I'd have learned my lesson from that time in Australia, but no, history repeats itself once more. :o

[L37Ultra]

Real Madrids B team were relegated to the 3rd division at the end of last season hvaing played in the Segunda(?) division that year. I saw a few games on Realmadrid TV (STOP SNIGGERING I have a life honest I do) and there were 1 or 2 first teamers playing so not sure about the no first team regulars playing

Of course maybe they were bangers!



So is it possible for Real Madraid B's to get promoted twice to the La Liga and end up playing against the first team or is there a rule to stop this occuring.

[jebus]

So is it possible for Real Madraid B's to get promoted twice to the La Liga and end up playing against the first team or is there a rule to stop this occuring.

There's a rule to stop it

[Bray Head]

Does this mean that the new A league will replace the current under 21 league. Most LOI clubs have a team in the under 21 league so the A league would be a combination of their current under 21 team and first teamers who are not playing. Since the current league teams can't get promoted you might have a situation of a club finishing in 5th or 6th place been promoted to the First division. Would promotion be optional then if they felt they were not up to First division standard or did not have a ground suitable ?

[Mr A]

Teams have to be at least 4th to get promoted, and the U21 league will remain, albeit changed to U20.

[DmanDmythDledge]

and the U21 league will remain, albeit changed to U20.
I think you can no longer play overage players in that league as well.

[Kildare Lad]

So does anyone know when the teams will be announced?

[pineapple stu]

Probably the week before the first fixtures.

[charliesboots]

article in the Indo today

Second-tier strugglers facing 'A' team battle
Wednesday November 07 2007


THE battle between Wexford Youths and Kilkenny City to avoid finishing bottom of the First Division has slipped under the radar somewhat as another Eircom League campaign draws to a close.


Next year, however, it will all be very different as the strugglers in the second tier will have to adjust to playing for something more than pride.

The introduction of the FAI's new 'A' Championship will add a third strand to domestic football and ensure that those clubs who consistently potter around in the lower echelons of the league -- with the only punishment being the token exercise of re-election -- have far more reason to nervously look over their shoulder.

Essentially, the 'A' Championship has two functions. It will serve as a new Reserve League for the clubs in the Premier Division for whom participation is compulsory while First Division sides have the option of entering back-up selections if they so wish.

In an era where some of the better clubs have larger squads, then an U-21 league (which will be downgraded to U-20 level next year) does not quite adequately fit the requirements for those out of the first team picture.

However, the intriguing aspect of the 'A' Championship is the door which it has opened for prospective new members into the league with non-league clubs or bodies from around the country encouraged to step up to the plate and give senior football a shot with the possibility of promotion to the First Division available to them.

The deadline for applications was last week and after nine parties initially expressed tentative interest, only six followed through with their intentions after considering the practicalities of what was being asked of them in the licensing manual.

Impressive

Their next step will be to face an independent assessment board -- similar to what each league club faced last year -- where they must present their vision and path forward in order to be fully ratified.

Already, the new Sporting Fingal project have gone public with their plans after an impressive display a fortnight ago which stated that their ultimate aim was to make it to the Premier Division.

With Liam Buckley stating a desire to introduce a competitive first team semi-professional squad in conjunction with the venture's ambitious plans in the youth department, they will be a force to be reckoned with at this level once they can dot the i's and cross the t's in the coming weeks.

It is believed that Galway club Salthill Devon will also be bidding to join them, while the identities of the other four remain unknown for the time being although clubs involved in the U-21 league such as Portlaoise, the Kerry League, Ballinasloe Town, Lifford from Clare and also a team from Mayo have been mooted as possibles.

A regional spread will be pivotal to its development as the 'A' Championship will be divided into two parts with a North and South league. Then, the respective winners will playoff for a prize fund of €20,000.

Naturally, the reserve teams of the Premier Division clubs will be prevented from taking up a place in the First Division so the process of possible promotion and relegation between the 'A' League and First Division is predicated on a couple of factors.

The highest ranking nonleague side will only be in with the chance of ascending to the league proper if they finish in the top four of their respective division.

In the event of there being a corresponding team in the other region then they must play off against each other to earn the right to take on the basement club in the First Division in what would be the ultimately decisive encounter.

Logistical difficulties

Understandably, there are logistical difficulties to be resolved regarding the new applicants before the 'A' Championship can get under way next year.

The new clubs, who are currently engaged in the winter campaign that amateur football still operates, will not be in a position to start until that season ends. Therefore, there will be a Shield competition for the Premier Division reserve sides that will begin in March in conjunction with the normal league season. In June, the 'A' Championship proper will kick off with the influx of fresh blood certain to capture the most attention.

The arrival of a new entity like Wexford Youths to the league this year has been a breath of fresh air although steadily their attendances have fallen off as their season trickles to what is essentially a pointless conclusion.

From an early stage, it has been obvious that there has been nothing to play for, a reality that the First Division has lived with for so long.

Now, it's a matter of how the graveyard dwellers respond to the potential threat on the horizon. The hope is that they will embrace it and use it as a motivation and wake-up call for the club and the locality.

Alas, time waits for nobody and the flip side is that this may be a necessary exercise in removing some dead wood from where they continually linger. Cruel, perhaps, but then sentiment and progress rarely make comfortable bedfellows.

[Battery Rover]

I think you can no longer play overage players in that league as well.

Yep thats correct. No overage players allowed

[dcfcsteve]

Have the FAI said how big they want the A league to be ?

A maximum of 8 new applicants to chose between, with 12 Premier clubs having a mandatory presence already, and First Division clubs apparently having the option of adding a team or not. Could make it quite a big league.

I'd also be concerned about the stability of Reserve team members from some of the weaker First Division clubs, shoudl they chose to join. It would be ideal to not have the numbers in the A-league chopping and changing all the time.

Reagrdless - I think this is a great developmnent for Irish football. Feck knows how the IFA beat us to it years ago though.... :eek:

[Dodge]

Reagrdless - I think this is a great developmnent for Irish football. Feck knows how the IFA beat us to it years ago though.... :eek:
They just have a reserve league don't they? same as we had years ago?

Anyway, there's 9 new applicants and the FAI have said they'll split the league into 2 regions (possibly North/South) so size won't be a problem

[Schumi]

Anyway, there's 9 new applicants and the FAI have said they'll split the league into 2 regions (possibly North/South) so size won't be a problemArticle above says there's only 6 teams interested in joining.

[charliesboots]

Article above says there's only 6 teams interested in joining.

6 new teams. Add them to 12 Premier 'Reserve' teams and probably a handful of First Division 'Reserve' teams and there are plenty to cover a two sections (North/South).

[Mr A]

So if all 6 get in and no first division teams decide to enter (it will be pretty expensive after all, and you could just enter your reserves in a local league) then you end up with two eight team divisions once the ten team premier kicks in. In that case new clubs would have a fair chance of making the top four.

The FAI actually seem to have planned this pretty well so far. I'm scared.

[Dodge]

BTW I swear to god I meant to type 6 above...

[dcfcsteve]

They just have a reserve league don't they? same as we had years ago?

They do have a reserve league for Premeir teams, but also a Carnegie First and Second Division below the Premier. Examples of teams in the Second Division would be Oxford United Stars (Derry), Moyola Park, Queens University, and Ballinamallard (who, I think, once hit the giddy heights of the Premier division about 5 years ago). So we're a good few years behind in the IFA here.


Anyway, there's 9 new applicants and the FAI have said they'll split the league into 2 regions (possibly North/South) so size won't be a problem

There's only 6 applicants :


The deadline for applications was last week and after nine parties initially expressed tentative interest, only six followed through with their intentions after considering the practicalities of what was being asked of them in the licensing manual.

Not all of them might get in. So with the north-south split, you could feasibly have one of the 2 divisions with only one or two non-reserve clubs in it.