mick mac

[@ndy]

http://www.soccercentral.ie/viewstory.asp?id=9740&mainheading=Republic+of+Ireland&viewstory=yes

what a cnut!

[patsh]

Yeah, he agrees with the fans cos he had absolutely nothing to do with it...:rolleyes:
15 games played and NADA, ZILCH, NOTHING from them.
This cnut is the most uselss f*cker ever.
I never agree with Dunphy, but it's true what he said about Mucker, that "It's all about himself".
How much longer will the British public be fooled by this ghoul?
He shouldn't be left in charge of a hockey team.

[pbn]

Andy, oddboy,

Was Mick as bad you make out?
Yes, McCarthy will always be remembered for his failure to spot Spain's 10 men & his persistent use of Harte & kilbane
but what Manager hasn't ballsed up at times during a 7 year period??
have you ever considered any of the following;

1. Mick inherited a bag of old sh*te from Jack. He blooded
new people and effectively rebuilt the team. Was he ever credited for that?
2. He changed the whole style of play & we
played some good stuff on the deck unlike Jack's side
3. mick didn't have the standard of players jack had at his disposal so pound for pound was probably more successful than Jack by getting the best out of a limited squad
4.Ireland finished 2nd in every championship qualifying
group and therefore under the old system of qualification(pre play offs) would have got us to every championship finals
5.We were within 12 seconds of winning a group containing Croatia (WC semi finalists) and Yugoslavia (beating
them both)
6.Undefeated in Group containing Holland & portugal
7.Undefeated at 2002 WC finals
8.Undefeated at home in Competitive matches
up until his last game against switzerland
9.Most people who criticise him think soccer was invented
in 1988 & cant name the manager before jack.
10. The media held it against mick because he was born
outside Ireland of Irish parentage BUT Big
Jack got no criticism regarding his birthplace despite being a "True Brit" and having no affinity to ireland pre 1986.
11. good luck to Kerr but will his
record over the next 7 years be better?

[patsh]

Originally posted by pbn
Andy, oddboy,

Was Mick as bad you make out?

YES.


1. Mick inherited a bag of old sh*te from Jack. He blooded
new people and effectively rebuilt the team. Was he ever credited for that?

Bag of sh*te????
So Mucker came along, was given a bag of sh*te and magically turned it into an international football team? :rolleyes:


2. He changed the whole style of play & we
played some good stuff on the deck unlike Jack's side

So? He had a different way of playing. So what?


3. mick didn't have the standard of players jack had at his disposal so pound for pound was probably more successful than Jack by getting the best out of a limited squad

SO you think he was better than the scumbag Charlton. Big deal.



4.Ireland finished 2nd in every championship qualifying
group and therefore under the old system of qualification(pre play offs) would have got us to every championship finals
5.We were within 12 seconds of winning a group containing Croatia (WC semi finalists) and Yugoslavia (beating
them both)
6.Undefeated in Group containing Holland & portugal
7.Undefeated at 2002 WC finals
8.Undefeated at home in Competitive matches
up until his last game against switzerland

What about all the times we were beaten out on goal difference, corrupt refereeing in Eastern Europe, had more points than nearly every other team that qualified and our managers Eoin Hand and Giles having absolutely no support at all from the FAI ?


9.Most people who criticise him think soccer was invented
in 1988 & cant name the manager before jack.

Really? I was at Irish international matches long before Charlton could even figure out where Ireland was.
So because you think that I don't know anything about Irish soccer before Charlton, I must be wrong about Mucker.
A tip for you. Don't assume anything.


10. The media held it against mick because he was born
outside Ireland of Irish parentage BUT Big
Jack got no criticism regarding his birthplace despite being a "True Brit" and having no affinity to ireland pre 1986.

Am I the media ???


11. good luck to Kerr but will his
record over the next 7 years be better?
There is a very good chance of that.

On top of everything else, you miss the point of the article. Mucker
commiserated with the Sunderland fans for how bad they must feel.
As if HE had nothing to do with it.
15 games. 45 possible points.
Muckers haul of points from that?
NADA. SWEET F*CK ALL. ZERO.
Does he bear no responsibilty at all?
Name any other premiership manager who would get away with losing 15 games in a row?
Anyone else would be slaughtered by the tabloids.
He is a spoofer, chancer and a media spinner.
He might have been the darling of England after the WC, but he will be found out soon enough.

[pbn]

Oddboy,

If you hate Mick then that's fair enough
but his record for Ireland speaks for itself
which is my point

Lots have people have forgotten this & it's
gotten too personal.
i notice you haven't replied to my points 5, 6, 7 and 8.
I wonder why?

[@ndy]

In fairness, Jack got a fair bit of criticism, especially because he was English. It was a big shock and a risk for the fai to take at the time. He silenced the critics with great results. Mick's success as Ireland manager speaks for itself, he did have a good run. I think the squad he had was actually better than the one Charlton had, and yes he did build a good squad himself and deserves credit for this.

As a 23 year old, my first football memories are of Charlton's side in the late eighties, so in that regard, he is the only Irish international manager i can truly compare to Mick, but as a football fan, i can tell a good manager from a bad one.

Throughout Mick's term there were constantly things he did that took away from his success. Dropping Irwin in what appeared to be a stance on the unfortunate club vs country bit ch slapping war that happens. I mean, Irwin was a model professional and his early retirement clearly went down to problems in the camp.

Jack's side was very hard to watch at times, but at the same time, i always had more faith in his team than Mick's, to pull off results in major tournaments.

As his career went on the cracks were starting to appear and as a certain fella from Mayfield started to voice opinions about national matters, not necessarily football things, but complaints about the treatment of the squad by the fai etc, i mean, a manager should be in control of these things, and if players aren't happy he should be there to do the best he can by them. If players are starting to have to talk to the media to get thru then there must be problems.

Lastly, the unfortunate fiasco in saipan...ugh. I mean, we could and i'm sure many of us have argued til we've been blue in the face about this and who said and did what and who should have done what. Residing in Cork during this time allowed me to have the Cork perspective and it was as everywhere else, however more extreme. There were Keano haters and Mick baters, and although i know Roy Keane didn't really handle the situation very well, even if you take all blame for the situation arising away from McCarthy, his handling of the affair as manager of the squad was just not very good and he allowed confrontation to happen and didn't calm the media down, like Alex Ferguson would have. He allowed rather, the battle to take place thru the bloody media, and once that had happened that was it. It would have been fully possible for Roy to play for us in that world cup...and how it would have been great, although i don't think we would have done any better than we ended up doing. Sure tis all speculation.

Anyway, i just don't like McCarthy now and everything he says and does i seems to confirm this for me. What do you think about this most recent article and his handling of the sunderland situation? I mean, it was an impossible task...a no win situation for him, but instead of apologising to fans and thanking the board for the opportunity to try and save the clubs premier status, he condemns and blames his players branding them an embarrassment to him because he couldn't even motivate them to win a single game under him?

Oh...i think i need a sh ag! :p

[patsh]

Originally posted by pbn
Oddboy,

If you hate Mick then that's fair enough
but his record for Ireland speaks for itself
which is my point

Lots have people have forgotten this & it's
gotten too personal.
i notice you haven't replied to my points 5, 6, 7 and 8.
I wonder why?
I don't "hate" McCarthy, I just think he is a crap manager, who is a bullsh*tter.
As for not answering your points, can you not read my post?
My comment below them ?

As for "your point", if you want to talk about something else, post a new thread.
You posted on a thread dealing not with Muckers record, but his inane comments in the article.

[pineapple stu]

Oddboy, you didn't answer any of his comments, unless stupid sarcastic comments count, which they don't. He got us playing quality football with a team of Irish players (by and large), was unlucky in his first three qualifying attempts while he was having to rebuild the team, knocked out a Holland side which was playing over £60m of talent up front against ten men and was a penalty kick away from a World Cup quarter final! He deserves a lot of credit for that!

And what's the problem with the article? So he sympathises with the fans - wow, what an idiot!

And oddboy, he hasn't lost 15 of 15 - he's lost 6 of 6! You haven't a clue - you seem just stupidly petty because you don't like the guy! Typical Cork attitude :rolleyes: . He got a team which was the worst ever in the Premiership, which only stayed up the previous year because they had a good start and which was hit by in-fighting, bickering and people who had stopped caring. McCarthy has shown he has an ability to bring the best out of ordinary players, so with a clear-out at Sunderland and some new players, they should be right up pushing for promotion next season.

[patsh]

Originally posted by pineapple stu
Oddboy, you didn't answer any of his comments, unless stupid sarcastic comments count, which they don't. He got us playing quality football with a team of Irish players (by and large), was unlucky in his first three qualifying attempts while he was having to rebuild the team, knocked out a Holland side which was playing over £60m of talent up front against ten men and was a penalty kick away from a World Cup quarter final! He deserves a lot of credit for that!

"stupid sarcastic comments" ???
I don't see why I should even answer this, but where are the comments you describe.
As for anything else you say, that YOUR opinion.


Originally posted by pineapple stu

And what's the problem with the article? So he sympathises with the fans - wow, what an idiot!

Yes what an idiot.
Has he no responsibilty for the relegation?
Or do you simply believe the never ending supply of bullsh*t the guy pours out?




And oddboy, he hasn't lost 15 of 15 - he's lost 6 of 6! You haven't a clue - you seem just stupidly petty because you don't like the guy! Typical Cork attitude :rolleyes: .

Actually, you haven't a clue either.
It was 9 out of 9. You are just stupidly petty because you had to rush to get up on your high horse.:rolleyes:
And as for the "typical Cork attitude" crap, I can take it that you are entirely representative of Dublin??




He got a team which was the worst ever in the Premiership, which only stayed up the previous year because they had a good start and which was hit by in-fighting, bickering and people who had stopped caring. McCarthy has shown he has an ability to bring the best out of ordinary players, so with a clear-out at Sunderland and some new players, they should be right up pushing for promotion next season.
Again this is YOUR opinion.

I'm not getting into a petty argument with you over a useless manager, so you keep your opinion and insults and I will stick to the facts. :)

[pineapple stu]

Originally posted by oddboy
"stupid sarcastic comments" ???
I don't see why I should even answer this, but where are the comments you describe.



Bag of sh*te???? So Mucker came along, was given a bag of sh*te and magically turned it into an international football team?


Am I the media ???


So? He had a different way of playing. So what?

There's three of them - stupid sarcastic comments with which you conclude that McCarthy's cr@p without actually offering any arguments or points.

As for responsibility for relegation - he said himself that they ended up needing 25 points out of 27. I presume that it's a) entirely his fault that they didn't do this with the worst squad ever in the Premiership and b) his fault entirely that they were in that situation in the first place??? Cop on! That would have been the greatest relegation escape ever!



so you keep your opinion and insults and I will stick to the facts.

Like this one?
You are just stupidly petty because you had to rush to get up on your high horse

And on top of all that, you manage to call McCarthy a bullsh!tter while agreeing with Dunphy!!! How on earth can anyone possibly do that?!?! Dunphy is an idiot, plain and simple. McCarthy is a very underrated manager whose only fault was to not be the media's choice, and so they embarked on a ludicrous anti-McCarthy campaign which undermined everything he achieved.

And you still haven't brushed off the trifling problem of McCarthy's record as Ireland manager, which, under the circumstances he had to face, was better than any previous Ireland manager.

If you want to get involved in a discussion about this, please bring up actual points rather than stupid jibes. Like here -
What about all the times we were beaten out on goal difference, corrupt refereeing in Eastern Europe, had more points than nearly every other team that qualified and our managers Eoin Hand and Giles having absolutely no support at all from the FAI ? What's your point?!

But if insults and jibes are all you understand, here's one -

Really? I was at Irish international matches long before Charlton could even figure out where Ireland was.

Very hard to believe given the maturity of your posts!

[patsh]

OK.
You seem to want to make a big deal of this, so here is my final contribution to you.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by oddboy
"stupid sarcastic comments" ???
I don't see why I should even answer this, but where are the comments you describe.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bag of sh*te???? So Mucker came along, was given a bag of sh*te and magically turned it into an international football team?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is what the guy posted. He was the one who called the team a "bag of ****e".


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I the media ???
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Am I the media?
Well?
I give my opinion, and it has nothing to do with the media.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So? He had a different way of playing. So what?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So? McCarthy had a different style of playing. So what?
Doesn't every manager?

************
There's three of them - stupid sarcastic comments with which you conclude that McCarthy's cr@p without actually offering any arguments or points.
***************
Those points are neither stupid or sarcastic.
If you think they are, thats your problem, not mine.

***********
As for responsibility for relegation - he said himself that they ended up needing 25 points out of 27. I presume that it's a) entirely his fault that they didn't do this with the worst squad ever in the Premiership and b) his fault entirely that they were in that situation in the first place??? Cop on! That would have been the greatest relegation escape ever!
*********
I don't give a sh*t what happens to Sunderland.
I blamed Mccarthy for nothing except the fact that the team did not win a solitary point with him in charge.
As for cop on, maybe cool yourself down there and take your own advice.


***************************
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
so you keep your opinion and insults and I will stick to the facts.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Like this one?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are just stupidly petty because you had to rush to get up on your high horse
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*******************************
No like this one:

quote from you
-----------------------------------------------
You haven't a clue - you seem just stupidly petty because you don't like the guy!
---------------------------------------------
Sound familiar?
Your own posting.

******************************
And on top of all that, you manage to call McCarthy a bullsh!tter while agreeing with Dunphy!!! How on earth can anyone possibly do that?!?! Dunphy is an idiot, plain and simple. McCarthy is a very underrated manager whose only fault was to not be the media's choice, and so they embarked on a ludicrous anti-McCarthy campaign which undermined everything he achieved.
***************************
Look, I do not have to defend myself or any of my comments to you.
But as I have gone as far as this, if you ever read any of my posts, you would know exactly what my thoughts on Dunphy are.
And I refer you to your qoute above
"you seem just stupidly petty because you don't like the guy!
"
Mmm, thats two instances of pot calling kettle balck

**********************
And you still haven't brushed off the trifling problem of McCarthy's record as Ireland manager, which, under the circumstances he had to face, was better than any previous Ireland manager.
******************
I do not brush off anything.
But you cannot have it both ways.
Either the players are to blame or not.
According to mccarthy, Sunderland players are to blame, he had nothing to do with it.
So how do we know he had anything to do with the irish performances?

If you want to get involved in a discussion about this, please bring up actual points rather than stupid jibes. Like here -
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What about all the times we were beaten out on goal difference, corrupt refereeing in Eastern Europe, had more points than nearly every other team that qualified and our managers Eoin Hand and Giles having absolutely no support at all from the FAI ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What's your point?!

My point is that Eoin Hand, John Giles had incredibly bad luck in just missing out on finals, but these two guys are completely forgotten.

But if insults and jibes are all you understand, here's one -

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really? I was at Irish international matches long before Charlton could even figure out where Ireland was.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Very hard to believe given the maturity of your posts!

Well in your opinion, you are mature, above jibes, sarcasm and insults, and all your posts are well thought out, reasonable pieces.
Mine appear to be sarcastic, stupid, immature comments and all I understand are jibes and insults.
Well I've understood your posts, have responded to them and have now said my piece.
If you cannot understand it, tough, but you and I will not be communicating again.
Cheers.

[pineapple stu]

No way can I leave you finish on that note -


Bag of sh*te???? So Mucker came along, was given a bag of sh*te and magically turned it into an international football team? This is what the guy posted. He was the one who called the team a "bag of ****e".


The team was sh!ite! But you ignored this and made some stupid comment by taking pbn literally - i.e. that the team was a physical bag of manure! You then claim that this is what the guy posted! If that isn't stupid and sarcastic, then I don't know what is.


Am I the media ???
Am I the media?
Well?
I give my opinion, and it has nothing to do with the media.


It also had nothing to do with the original point! McCarthy was victimised by the media, and a lot of idiots (not necessarily yourself - it's quite possible you have drawn your own conclusions independently) jumped on the bandwagon and believed what the media told them to believe. But again, you refused to get drawn into discussion on this point, and "refuted" it with a stupid, sarcastic comment.

There's those words again!


so you keep your opinion and insults and I will stick to the facts.

So when I say that McCarthy was a good manager and back t up with reference, that's my opinion, but when you say that McCarthy was a "cnut", and don't bother expanding, that's a fact?:confused:


I do not brush off anything. But you cannot have it both ways.
Either the players are to blame or not.
According to mccarthy, Sunderland players are to blame, he had nothing to do with it.
So how do we know he had anything to do with the irish performances?


Talk about spurious! McCarthy inherited an ageing team, rebuilt it, with time, with his players, got them playing his style and did exceptionally well. With Sunderland, he hasn't had time to rebuild a team or get them playing his way. If he comes in tamely in mid-table next season, then maybe - maybe - you can draw a conclusion from one about the other. But to say he's a cr@p manager after 9 games, ignoring all he managed as Ireland maanger, is ridiculous!


My point is that Eoin Hand, John Giles had incredibly bad luck in just missing out on finals, but these two guys are completely forgotten.

a) They're not completely forgotten. It's accepted that Johnny Giles was a very good Ireland manager who brought them forward; ditto, to a lesser extent, Eóin Hand. But they just don't get talked about as much these days because it was 20/30 years ago, whereas McCarthy is current. That's life.
b) Anyway, McCarthy finished higher every time than Giles or Hand ever finished. He also had his bad luck, but still qualified for one finals tournament, and would have qualified for every one under Giles' and Hand's qualification criteria. And yet he gets villified for being a cr@p manager! Something doesn't add up there, surely?


I do not brush off anything.

Those points are neither stupid or sarcastic. If you think they are, that's your problem, not mine.


Hmmm....



Well in your opinion, you are mature, above jibes, sarcasm and insults, and all your posts are well thought out, reasonable pieces. Mine appear to be sarcastic, stupid, immature comments and all I understand are jibes and insults.
Well I've understood your posts, have responded to them and have now said my piece.
If you cannot understand it, tough, but you and I will not be communicating again.
Cheers.

I never said the first part of that at all! That's just you jumping in head-first and spouting without thinking or backing stuff up! Though, with the level of discussion in your posts, and your complete inability or lack of desire to give something approaching substance to your claims, it is rather hard not to draw the inference.

[brine2]

I don't want to start opening cans of worms here (but it seems unavoidable), but if you compare Mick's match record when Roy Keane was playing and Mick's match record when Roy Keane was not playing, it seems obvious that not Mick McCarthy, but Roy Keane was the most decisive influence upon the team between 1996 and 2002. In other words: We could have had the Duracell bunny in charge, but as long as Roy Keane was in the side, we were usually all right.

(I'm not defending or condoning Roy Keane's actions, but these are the cold hard facts)

[Neil]

Roy who?

[SÓC]

*Post removed-Not posted by me*

(The Real) SÓCcfc

[Éanna]

I was nenevr a big fan of mccarthy from the word go, he got the job too early, he had no experience, but he grew into it and in my book was the best manager this country has had yet. there were some great moments during his time in charge- the two games against holland, the world cup; why let one argument that got out of control spoil it all. I can understand people resenting what happened last june, but that was one month out of several years, people make mistakes, staying bitter about this kind of thing is pointless.

[sadloserkid]

Originally posted by Neil
Roy who?

He was a Scottish guy Neil, kinda like a less sexy Braveheart I think...

[pineapple stu]

Originally posted by brine2
If you compare Mick's match record when Roy Keane was playing and Mick's match record when Roy Keane was not playing, it seems obvious that not Mick McCarthy, but Roy Keane was the most decisive influence upon the team between 1996 and 2002.

Fair point, but technically, you'd expect any team to do worse without their star player by definition.

We did well without him where it counted though - the World Cup performance alone surely should prove McCarthy's ability. Doesn't matter if Keane bribed every ref in the world to get us there - once we were there, and without our best player, we performed exceptionally well.

[Dricky]

All I can say is the manager we have had have had some fantastic players to use and where have we finished
Almost almost almost

sick of it
Jack Charlton had some of the best European Players and what did he do ****ed some off and played the long ball.

M Mac was handed a perfect youth squad from Kerr and ****ed it up.

Irish football has always lived by the Ole Ole. When have Spain ever done well in a world cup????? Camaroon were one of the worst teams there, Germany let us play, Saudi well enough said we proved how good we are by beating on of the worst teams in the world.
But still I have to say it again When have Spain ever done well in a world cup??? they were ****e and we couldn't beat them.
This is grap that we had a good world cup, it was there for the taking but some wanted to go on the ****. (Well look who got to the Semi and Finals)

At least someone with a football brain is in charge now.

Where do people get the idea we had a good world cup???

[Niamh_GalwayGal]

em, aren't spain like 4th in the world? but hey, FIFA, what do they know...

[RiffRaff]

I agree we could have done a lot better at the WC finals, if we had proper preparation. Under the circumstances it was a great achievement. I'm not a great fan of McCarthy but his biggest crime to some people seems to be not showing favouritism to players from certain clubs. Everyone who plays for Man u or Celtic doesn't mean you have a divine right to be picked and have the team built round you.

[patsh]

Originally posted by Conor74
I like Dunphy too, for my sins - I often find him thought provoking, and he was good on the radio. But his opinion on Keane, McCarthy etc. etc. must always be tempered by the thought that he was in the paypacket of the former. His is hardly the most objective of opinions. That doesn't disentitle him to an opinion, it's just that he was hardly going to give McCarthy a break.
I have to say I've never liked the guy (Dunphy).
He is too opinionated...;) :D
I always found though that his radio show was excellent for the contribuors he had on. Though this probably had a lot to do with the production team.
I don't think McCarthy was ever up to scratch as a manager, but I reckon that he is a more decent person than Dunphy is.
I think Dunphy's dislike of Mucker has a lot to do with the treatment of Dave O'Leary at the time of Charlton.