Oman for Stoke City?

[MariborKev]

http://www.derryjournal.com/journal-sport/Oman-at-Stoke-City.3425802.jp

Out of contract and on his way it appears.

Fair play to him, I hope it goes well for him.......

Unfortunate that he wasn't signed onto a new deal earlier, thanks Nutsy.

His performances this season definately indicate he is capable of a higher level.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Derry losing out to a player on a Bosman... forgive me while I hold back a laugh... :D :D :D... sorry couldn't do it.

[OneRedArmy]

Derry losing out to a player on a Bosman... forgive me while I hold back a laugh... :D :D :D... sorry couldn't do it.He's out of contract. We knew that all along. Nobody holds a grudge as he's been our best player over the last 2 seasons, by quite a margin.

BTW, presume you're referring to Derry using the failure to implement Bosman within the EL that existed under the previous contractual and transfer arrangements? You do realise that "loophole" was closed years ago?

[Dodge]

BTW, presume you're referring to Derry using the failure to implement Bosman within the EL that existed under the previous contractual and transfer arrangements? You do realise that "loophole" was closed years ago?

I prefer to call it the Derry announcing themselves as a British club fiasco

[OneRedArmy]

I prefer to call it the Derry announcing themselves as a British club fiascoGiven the lack of finances in the EL if it helped us get good players for free we'd call ourselves Mongolian.

In the grand scheme of EL scams, dodges (no pun intended) and general rule-bending it doesn't even make the top 50.

[Dodge]

Nothing wrong with the scam, I just know it annoys many of your more republican fans when I talk to them about it

[OneRedArmy]

Nothing wrong with the scam, I just know it annoys many of your more republican fans when I talk to them about itNever met anyone who disagreed with us using that loophole and if they do, then they should consider whether they are a Derry City fan or not.

In a similar vein, I don't see the FAI or other clubs refunding Derry City the VAT we are charged on gate receipts.

Swings and roundabouts.....

[dcfcsteve]

Shame to see him go, and even bigger shame he wasn't on a contract. But he was always destined to move onto the English or Scottish scene.

Pity it wasn't a better club than Stoke, but at least he'll get to play in the same colours..... :D

[Dodge]

Never met anyone who disagreed with us using that loophole and if they do, then they should consider whether they are a Derry City fan or not.
I agree. But I have encountered these fans

[Ceirtlis]

Shame to see him go, and even bigger shame he wasn't on a contract. But he was always destined to move onto the English or Scottish scene.

Pity it wasn't a better club than Stoke, but at least he'll get to play in the same colours..... :D

He will have his work cut out to get a game at Stoke.

[OneRedArmy]

He will have his work cut out to get a game at Stoke.Why? He's been the one of the top centre halves in the League over the last 2 seasons.

[Steve Bruce]

Why? He's been the one of the top centre halves in the League over the last 2 seasons.

Because the Eircom League is a lesser standard than Stokes division perhaps?

[Sam_Heggy]

Because the Eircom League is a lesser standard than Stokes division perhaps?

Colin Hawkins moved to Coventry during last season, he walked straight into the team and held his place.
Wes Hoolahan is flying at Blackpool, Doyle, Murphy, Long, and many more have found it easy transition from Eircom League to Championship football.
Ken Oman should be good enough for Stoke.

[btid1]

Colin Hawkins moved to Coventry during last season, he walked straight into the team and held his place.



He hasnt been playing of late has he?

[OneRedArmy]

Because the Eircom League is a lesser standard than Stokes division perhaps?Tell Kevin Doyle and Shane Long that. If a player is good enough, he's good enough.

Anyway, good to see you and your anti-EL views back on here Steve.

[osarusan]

If a player is good enough, he's good enough.


That isn't related to the quality of the league they player comes from though.

According to you, he is
one of the top centre halves in the League over the last 2 seasons.

Why haven't a better team than Stoke come in for him? Why is he (seemingly) happy to move to Stoke?

[Sam_Heggy]

He hasnt been playing of late has he?

Is he not injured?
He def played out the end of last season.

[gufct]

yes he is out until March and has been out injured nearly all season.

[OneRedArmy]

That isn't related to the quality of the league they player comes from though.

According to you, he is

Why haven't a better team than Stoke come in for him? Why is he (seemingly) happy to move to Stoke?I don't know to either, but both questions are irrelevant in the context of whether he's good enough to get his game at Stoke.

Given I suspect you've seen little of the player in question I'd question what value you feel you are adding to the discussion?

[dcfcsteve]

Why haven't a better team than Stoke come in for him? Why is he (seemingly) happy to move to Stoke?

Because the Steve Bruce who posts on here reckons he isn't even good enough for Stoke, so I guess Oman should be grateful of any offer outside the Rymans Premier League..... :o

[Ceirtlis]

Why? He's been the one of the top centre halves in the League over the last 2 seasons.

Well first of all i wasnt altogether impressed any time that i have seen him play and secondly look over all the players that went to england and scotland this season and last and you will see that more than half are not playing regularly including Alan Bennett who i would have thought was better than Oman. I l stick my neck on the line and say i expect him to play less than 50% of the games for which he is fit and available. Please dont start listing the names of players who have done well after leaving the league please or i will list the names of the players who are not getting their game.

[pete]

Central Defence is a difficult position to break into as Mangers do not bring defenders off the bench for the last 10-15 minutes very often.

[Ceirtlis]

Central Defence is a difficult position to break into as Mangers do not bring defenders off the bench for the last 10-15 minutes very often.

Agreed.

[Anto McC]

He hasnt been playing of late has he?

Hawkins was in Germany (i think) very recently getting an operation on his knee as far as i know.

[LeixlipRed]

This is one that Shels fans might get only,

It's "fright'nin" to see Oman leave for Stoke ;)

[Steve Bruce]

Colin Hawkins moved to Coventry during last season, he walked straight into the team and held his place.
Wes Hoolahan is flying at Blackpool, Doyle, Murphy, Long, and many more have found it easy transition from Eircom League to Championship football.
Ken Oman should be good enough for Stoke.

I'm not saying their arent players in the LOI that can't make hte step up. But the league as a whole is not on par or near as good as the Championship

[Steve Bruce]

Tell Kevin Doyle and Shane Long that. If a player is good enough, he's good enough.

Anyway, good to see you and your anti-EL views back on here Steve.

My point wasn't that certain players cannot make the step up. My point is that it is indeed a BIG step up.

[Steve Bruce]

Because the Steve Bruce who posts on here reckons he isn't even good enough for Stoke, so I guess Oman should be grateful of any offer outside the Rymans Premier League..... :o

Some one asked why would he move to Stoke. The simple answer is because Eircom League is a lesser standard, so obvsiouly he is going to try and pit his wits in a far superior league.

[Steve Bruce]

Can I also state that their has been many Irish League players who have made the grade over in England as well. It doesn't mean that hte IL is a great standard, it means we have players in our league who are capable of playing at a far greater standard.

E.g Gareth McAuley, Glenn Little, Ivon Sproule(who wasn't even a great player in the IL)

Do people understand what I am getting at?

[Dodge]

Some one asked why would he move to Stoke. The simple answer is because Eircom League is a lesser standard, so obvsiouly he is going to try and pit his wits in a far superior league.
Without being funny, its completely down to money in the vast majority of cases.

And of course the LOI, as whole, isn't close to the Championship in England. Have yet to read any posts claiming otherwise. Player wise, the top level players in the LOI are good enough to play at that level

[OneRedArmy]

their has (sic) been many Irish League players who have made the grade over in England as well.Stretching the truth a bit there Steve if you are referring to the top 2 divisions.

Anyway, again completely immaterial in the context of whether Oman is good enough to play in the Championship (he is).

[Mad Moose]

Well stepping up to te Championship level is one thing but word is he has now headed for a trial with Sunderland.Not sure how much truth is in it actually but Stoke is a no deal and he' getting a try out at SunIreland.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Getting a trial at Sunderland... hmmm.... what's he being charged with? :D

[Steve Bruce]

Stretching the truth a bit there Steve if you are referring to the top 2 divisions.

Anyway, again completely immaterial in the context of whether Oman is good enough to play in the Championship (he is).

Stuart Elliot, Andy Kirk, Johnathon Harkness, Richie Barker are just a few that has went over to England and have made the grade.

These 4 plus the other 3 are just off the top of my head. I could sit do more research if you like.

But it depends on what you call many. If you think 20 is many, then your right I have been stretchin the truth, if you call 10 many, then maybe I haven't been.

[dcfcsteve]

Some one asked why would he move to Stoke. The simple answer is because Eircom League is a lesser standard, so obvsiouly he is going to try and pit his wits in a far superior league.

Your inherent prejudice aside, how do you genuinely know the EL is far inferior to the Championship ? Seriosuly - please explain.

Particularly in the light of examples of decent, but not spactacular, EL players going straight into premeirship first teams and making a big impact.

Are you suggesting that EL teams couldn't survive somewhere in the 22 team Championship - alongside the likes of Blackpool, Norwich, Colchester and Burnley....?

And on what basis are you making your judgement ?

And as Dodge has said - moves to English or Scottish teams are often more about money and exposure than anythign to do with standards. Or love, in Darren Kelly's case. Unless you're now going to claim the Conference Premier is of a higher standrad than the EL, just because someone made that move.....

[gustavo]

Particularly in the light of examples of decent, but not spactacular, EL players going straight into premeirship first teams and making a big impact.
...

When did this happen?

[dcfcsteve]

When did this happen?

Seen the Reading team recently.....? :rolleyes:

[Dodge]

When Roy O'Donovan rugby tackled the corkie keeper for Birmingham.

[pateen]

Seen the Reading team recently.....? :rolleyes:

And that’s it.
Wud live to think we are as good as the championship but were not.
Jason Byrne - top scorer in the EL for two seasons, seriously struggled at Cardiff
Glen Crowe - Released by wolves, top scored in EL for two seasons
Alan Bennet - Struggling at Southampton

There are success stories.
Colin Hawkins
Wes Hoolahan
George O Callaghan (ish, was released by Ipswich but don’t know why)
But these were the best players in the league.

It’s very hard to use players when comparing the divisions but you watch EL games week in week out and then sit down and watch an average championship game.

Sadly, It’s still a faster game.

[dcfcsteve]

And that’s it.
Wud live to think we are as good as the championship but were not.
Jason Byrne - top scorer in the EL for two seasons, seriously struggled at Cardiff
Glen Crowe - Released by wolves, top scored in EL for two seasons
Alan Bennet - Struggling at Southampton

There are success stories.
Colin Hawkins
Wes Hoolahan
George O Callaghan (ish, was released by Ipswich but don’t know why)
But these were the best players in the league.

It’s very hard to use players when comparing the divisions but you watch EL games week in week out and then sit down and watch an average championship game.

Sadly, It’s still a faster game.

Glen Crowe hasn't been a good player in Ireland either for years - arguably not since he left Bohs first time round.

You've conveniently glossed over the Reading lot, and others like Dayl Murphy.

I watched QPR play Norwich in the flesh last month, and it was certainly nothing that i wouldn't have seen in an EL ground.Despite QPR having an outrageously wealthy owner and large fan-base.

I'm not saying EL teams would win the Championship; I'm not even saying they'd all do well. But I can't believe that our top teams couldn't at least exist in that league somewhere above 22nd place - alongside the Burnleys, Colchesters, Norwich's etc.

We're certainly better than Division 1 standard - which, if you're saying we're not up to the Championship, is the level you're putting us at.

[endabob1]

Seen the Reading team recently.....? :rolleyes:

This is what gets me about this argument everytime, a handfull of players make it and all of a sudden the whole league is supposed to be better.

DJ Campbell went from Ryman premier (7th tier of English football) to the Premier League with Birmingham (via Brentford) in less than 6 months but I don't often hear the Ryman premier being lorded as the equivalent to the Championship.

I don't see much Eircom league football anymore (as I live in England) but judging a whole league's standard based on a few players who have made the grade from it without looking at the number who fail to make the grade and retun to it does not strike me as reasonable.

[gustavo]

Seen the Reading team recently.....? :rolleyes:
Kevin Doyle and Shane Long didnt go straight from our league to the Premiership as they were in that team whilst it was in the Championship

[dcfcsteve]

This is what gets me about this argument everytime, a handfull of players make it and all of a sudden the whole league is supposed to be better.

DJ Campbell went from Ryman premier (7th tier of English football) to the Premier League with Birmingham (via Brentford) in less than 6 months but I don't often hear the Ryman premier being lorded as the equivalent to the Championship.

I don't see much Eircom league football anymore (as I live in England) but judging a whole league's standard based on a few players who have made the grade from it without looking at the number who fail to make the grade and retun to it does not strike me as reasonable.

Read my following post. I said our top teams would exist in that league - I didn't say our entire league was of tghe same standard, or that our top teams would be at the top of the Championship. There is a huge difference.

If we ignore player transfers, then all we're left with as evidence is friendlies (rare against Championship sides, and often meaningless) or just mere speculation/opinion. In which case your opinion can be proven no less or more valid than anyone elses.

[dcfcsteve]

Kevin Doyle and Shane Long didnt go straight from our league to the Premiership as they were in that team whilst it was in the Championship

Ignoring the fact that Reading were clearly above Championship standard that year - hence they got promoted and finished quite highly in the Prem the following year - then that at least made them upper-Championship standard when they left our League.

[endabob1]

Read my following post. I said our top teams would exist in that league - I didn't say our entire league was of tghe same standard, or that our top teams would be at the top of the Championship. There is a huge difference.

If we ignore player transfers, then all we're left with as evidence is friendlies (rare against Championship sides, and often meaningless) or just mere speculation/opinion. In which case your opinion can be proven no less or more valid than anyone elses.

I still think my point stands, look at the number of players who have moved to England and failed and then returned to play in the EL. There a lot more players who fail than succeeed so using the success of a handfull to declare the standard pf the league is not reasonable. I watch a bit of League 1 (and lower)football here and there are some decent sides, with decent players who could probably operate at a higher level but I've seen a lot of them move up and fail, occasionally one makes it but many many more fail, the ones who make it don't mean the standard of the league they left behind is somehow improved

[Ceirtlis]

Particularly in the light of examples of decent, but not spactacular, EL players going straight into premeirship first teams and making a big impact.

Are you suggesting that EL teams couldn't survive somewhere in the 22 team Championship - alongside the likes of Blackpool, Norwich, Colchester and Burnley....?

And on what basis are you making your judgement ?

And as Dodge has said - moves to English or Scottish teams are often more about money and exposure than anythign to do with standards. Or love, in Darren Kelly's case. Unless you're now going to claim the Conference Premier is of a higher standrad than the EL, just because someone made that move.....

There is only one example of a player making a big impact and that is Kevin Doyle and by the time he left the eircom league he was spectaculuar. He was Cork Citys top scorer for a good few games after leaving that season. Shane Long has done well but he is 4th choice when everyone is fit.

Funnily enough this is Darren Kelly second spell in the conference, he didnt do to well last time.

I dont mean to be a negative **** but i think you are way overrating the league. Qpr et al are in my opinion a good bit better than anything the league has to offer. I am not convinced a current eircom league 11 would survive in the championship.

[Mr A]

Surely to follow the logic here we should compare how many players have made the jump from the Championship to the Premiership to those making a similar transition from our league?

[Mad Moose]

George O Callaghan (ish, was released by Ipswich but don’t know why)

Definetely not a success at Ipswich Town whatever about at Port Vale before his return to Cork City. Ipswich Town waited a long time to get George in.

Hasn't been released though, he's out on loan at Brighton and Hove Albion. Not sure though how he's getting on. Never saw him play for Ipswich Town.

[pete]

Definetely not a success at Ipswich Town whatever about at Port Vale before his return to Cork City. Ipswich Town waited a long time to get George in.

Hasn't been released though, he's out on loan at Brighton and Hove Albion. Not sure though how he's getting on. Never saw him play for Ipswich Town.

George O'Callaghan was mainly bench player with the occasional start at Ipswich. I think there was some issue about playing while hiding an injury but he was supposed to have been loaned as not 1st eleven player. He is 1st eleven player at Brighton.

Alana Bennet has been unlucky at Southampton as he got back in lately due to injuries, got MOTM marking Fowler & then out of the match squad.. Don't know if good enough for the Premier League but would be good Championship player.

[OneRedArmy]

Surely to follow the logic here we should compare how many players have made the jump from the Championship to the Premiership to those making a similar transition from our league?Err....no.

The argument as a read it is whether the top EL sides, at any given time, would survive (ie be at least as good as the bottom few sides) in the Championship.

I don't think anyone is crazy enough to argue that the EL Premier Division is of a similar standard to the Championship on the whole.