We're goin' Continental

[SUB of the day]

Very good interview with John Delaney, on Finucane show this am.In summary, he pointed to the failure of "British style coaching and methods" with regard to the likely collective failure to qualify.Given his position as ceo, and his likely influence of the headhunters, the current list of candidates can be narrowed down to ,Troussier, Houllier and Jol. Put your money on Houllier!

[eirebhoy]

Link:
http://dynamic.rte.ie/quickaxs/209-rte-marianfinucane-2007-10-27.smil

Interview starts about 7 and a half minutes in.

[Torn-Ado]

I can see us getting a continental manager. The pressure is on Delaney and the FAI to deliver this time.

I can see it happening.

[geysir]

Thanks for the link Eirebhoy.

He is cute, now it's blame the Brits.
He also mentioned about trying to arrange friendlies with Brazil and Argentina.

[eirebhoy]

He also mentioned about trying to arrange friendlies with Brazil and Argentina.
I only got to listen to it now and I was just about to say that. Brazil we know about but Argentina was the one I was calling for. I'd love to see it.

[SUB of the day]

Messi in Croker, Brazil also, Staunton gone, City in the final.....things are looking up:)

[geysir]

It will give us a chance to see how a team of midgets can play football.

[lopez]

Two words come to mind when I hear this 'anglo'-phobia over 'British' coaches managing 'British' national teams. 'Bertie' and 'Vogts'. The belief that any decent non British or Irish coach, including one that has won a European Championship, has the answers, is flawed.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Two words come to mind when I hear this 'anglo'-phobia over 'British' coaches managing 'British' national teams. 'Bertie' and 'Vogts'. The belief that any decent non British or Irish coach, including one that has won a European Championship, has the answers, is flawed.

British and Irish teams cannot retain possession of the football... FACT.
British and Irish teams do not seem to be able to defend for 90 minutes without making mistakes... FACT. The standard of defending in the Premiership is mostly woegeous. Any country that give Danny Mills 25 caps while at the same time leaving out better players has serious problems.

I think a change of focus would be required. Two suggestions I would make to the new Irish manager would be ....drop John O'Shea and Robbie Keane.

[Irish_Praha]

Two words come to mind when I hear this 'anglo'-phobia over 'British' coaches managing 'British' national teams. 'Bertie' and 'Vogts'. The belief that any decent non British or Irish coach, including one that has won a European Championship, has the answers, is flawed.

I said this in another thread but after the Stan shambles any coach the FAI appoints now is going to be under the spotlight more than ever before. He will be seen to be flawed by the majority of the fans/media/pundits for a variety of reasons, some pathetic some well-founded. Whoever it is they will be treated with a dose of sceptisim from the off and will be very lucky to have anywhere near 50% of us very happy with his appointment. If they appoint someone British/Irish some will say that we need a continental manager and vise versa. Let's just hope they make a decent choice and that 10 games into his tenure the majority are happy with the job he is doing and only those who have something to gain from him not performing well are still complaining (e.g. Dumpy).

In reference to the interview I thought Finucane asked a few tricky questions that I wouldn't have expected from her. Of course she could have went further but it was much better than anything the likes of Pat "The Plank" Kenny would have done. It seemed like she and her team had a good understanding of some of the reasons why a lot of people are unhappy with Delaney/FAI. A few sore points that are regularly raised on Foot.ie were brought up and I suppose he did a decent enough job of brushing them off. He is the type of guy you would like to have present to discuss the case for Ireland when the fixture list is decided for a qualification campaign. Imagine if he appoints O'Leary as manager. They would get whatever fixture list they wanted just so the others could get to their hotels before it's too late to get breakfast! I don't live in Ireland so I'm not really exposed to the Irish media, apart from a few internet sites. So maybe I am giving Finucane too much credit and all these points were already disscussed to death over the last few weeks? Anyway, I still don't like the man but I dislike him a little less after hearing what he had to say today. Maybe it's easier to listen to him and not hate him when you don't have to see him :D He has gotten a lot of abuse over the last few weeks, most merited but some a bit OTT but at least he doesn't appear bitter about it. Unless of course it's all a big front and he's realy fuming behind the scenes. The 300 grand a year might have something to do with him not being bitter too! :p

[Scram]

I can see us getting a continental manager. The pressure is on Delaney and the FAI to deliver this time.

I can see it happening.

Hopefully not with an incontinent overseer i.e "Sir" Booby Rosson

[Qwerty]

Very good interview with John Delaney, on Finucane show this am.In summary, he pointed to the failure of "British style coaching and methods" with regard to the likely collective failure to qualify.Given his position as ceo, and his likely influence of the headhunters, the current list of candidates can be narrowed down to ,Troussier, Houllier and Jol. Put your money on Houllier!

Despite his protestations abouts not being involved in the choice of the next manager, I believe I find a clue to his preference in his repeated mis-prounounciation of San Marino during this interview.

[OwlsFan]

Didn't look at the interview but I find it strange that he would appear to be suggesting the sort of manager he would prefer while on the other hand saying that the choice will be made by "football people". Man U have won the CL league relatively recently under a British coach while a non-British coach in the form of Eriksson presided over some woeful displays by England not to mention the 6-0 drubbing yesterday. WHo said British coaches can get their teams to defend. Liverpool are brutal at the moment and couldn't retain possession in Turkey - is their coach British? This line of reasoning just doesn't stand up.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Despite his protestations abouts not being involved in the choice of the next manager, I believe I find a clue to his preference in his repeated mis-prounounciation of San Marino during this interview.

San -Mourinho? :D

[CollegeTillIDie]

Didn't look at the interview but I find it strange that he would appear to be suggesting the sort of manager he would prefer while on the other hand saying that the choice will be made by "football people". Man U have won the CL league relatively recently under a British coach while a non-British coach in the form of Eriksson presided over some woeful displays by England not to mention the 6-0 drubbing yesterday. WHo said British coaches can get their teams to defend. Liverpool are brutal at the moment and couldn't retain possession in Turkey - is their coach British? This line of reasoning just doesn't stand up.

Ferguson is Scottish. Scotland has produced better coaches than anywhere else in these islands. Which Scottish candidates are being suggested for the Ireland job? NOBODY.

To answer your other question Danny Mills got 25 caps for England. He wouldn't have gotten 1 for Ireland had he been eligible.

[Supreme feet]

Hope it's Houllier. A proper manager. At least he's managed at the highest level. We would have no excuses.

[The Swordsman]

Does this guy ever learn?

Talk about limiting our options.

If we can get a top class continental manager, brilliant, but as other posters have said, I can't see them queuing up to manage us especially for the type of money the FAI will offer.

We could end up with a Gross or a Venglos rather than a Jewell,Graham or O'Leary.

I'd love to see Martin Jol given the job, but I think he will end at a top club in Europe.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Two words come to mind when I hear this 'anglo'-phobia over 'British' coaches managing 'British' national teams. 'Bertie' and 'Vogts'. The belief that any decent non British or Irish coach, including one that has won a European Championship, has the answers, is flawed.
I've said before that I'm deeply suspicious about the reasons behind the apparent hostility of some of our senior players to the idea of a non-Irish manager. It's been dressed up as worry that such a candidate "wouldn't understand the Irish temperament and culture". I believe that's double-speak and I think it can be reasonably guessed what the real concern is here.

[Claret Murph]

I am sure this has a long way to run yet as to who gets the job , but lets face it bottom line is how much do the FAI want to spend on out next manager .

Right the same idea as myself , PEANUTS and what are we going to get YES correct again a monkey a nobody , has been or a person who has not worked for a season or two .

LET ME SPELL IT OUT FOR THE FAI

Spend the cash bring in the best person for the job give him 2/3 million a year then ask Mr Scolari / Lippi will he take us to the world cup in in 2010 . Or on the other hand get someone on the cheap and lets say we are building for the Euro's 2012 anyone hear that one before .

To be the best you have to get the best .............

[bennocelt]

Two words come to mind when I hear this 'anglo'-phobia over 'British' coaches managing 'British' national teams. 'Bertie' and 'Vogts'. The belief that any decent non British or Irish coach, including one that has won a European Championship, has the answers, is flawed.


most observers of internationla football knew damn well that Bertie and Scotland would end in disaster, he was even surprised himself that someone gave him another job...............he became a bit of a joke in germany............even after winning the Euro's.......cause he wasnt that good


next one please..............:)

[Dazzy]

British and Irish teams cannot retain possession of the football... FACT.
British and Irish teams do not seem to be able to defend for 90 minutes without making mistakes... FACT. The standard of defending in the Premiership is mostly woegeous. Any country that give Danny Mills 25 caps while at the same time leaving out better players has serious problems.

I think a change of focus would be required. Two suggestions I would make to the new Irish manager would be ....drop John O'Shea and Robbie Keane.

But we will probally run into problems with all our players being produced by a British system.

[osarusan]

The ideas that a continental manager, any continental manager is needed, or that only a British/Irish manager will be in tune with the players are both flawed, I think.

In fact, I'm not too convinced that there is a "continental type" of manager, or that there is a "British/Irish" type manager, all of whom share respective characteristics.

What I want is an experienced manager who is able to choose the right players, the right system, get the most out of those players and have them performing to the best of their ability as a team. Where he (or she!!) comes from doesn't matter at all.

[inexile]

why not go to the top and break the bank and everything else and try and convince jose mourinho to take on the challenge, optimistic i know but at least try?

[Irish_Praha]

The ideas that a continental manager, any continental manager is needed, or that only a British/Irish manager will be in tune with the players are both flawed, I think.

In fact, I'm not too convinced that there is a "continental type" of manager, or that there is a "British/Irish" type manager, all of whom share respective characteristics.

What I want is an experienced manager who is able to choose the right players, the right system, get the most out of those players and have them performing to the best of their ability as a team. Where he (or she!!) comes from doesn't matter at all.

Agree 100%.

We just need a strong experienced and respected character to come in and get the team firing on all cylinders and if that is a British, Irish or Continental manager I don't care. We can all give examples where a manager has come in from another country and turned an international team around. Equally there have also been failures. The same can be said for managers managing their own country's team. It all depends on the character of the person and their coaching ability. All appointments come with a risk of failure.

[Superhoops]

...Spend the cash bring in the best person for the job give him 2/3 million a year then ask Mr Scolari / Lippi will he take us to the world cup in in 2010 . Or on the other hand get someone on the cheap and lets say we are building for the Euro's 2012 anyone hear that one before .

To be the best you have to get the best .............

I know I keep on about this but I dont think the FAI would have a problem paying out 2/3 million if (a) it gets us to the finals and (b) a good run would guarantee full houses at CP or LR. They would be millions in if that happened.

However, let's say that €3m a year is the price we have to pay, surely at least half of that must be results based, in this case getting us to 2010 finals, so over 2 years €3m in salary and €3 bonus when we qualify.

Do we really think the Scolari's, Lippi's would work on that basis?

I don't, and certainly not until the draw for the qualifying groups is made. I also think they would realistically look at the players we have and quickly come to the conclusion, I would not bet half my pay packet on this lot!

If there is no perfomance/results based incentive, what is the point of considering paying for the best.

[Noelys Guitar]

I know I keep on about this but I dont think the FAI would have a problem paying out 2/3 million if (a) it gets us to the finals and (b) a good run would guarantee full houses at CP or LR. They would be millions in if that happened.

However, let's say that €3m a year is the price we have to pay, surely at least half of that must be results based, in this case getting us to 2010 finals, so over 2 years €3m in salary and €3 bonus when we qualify.

Do we really think the Scolari's, Lippi's would work on that basis?

I don't, and certainly not until the draw for the qualifying groups is made. I also think they would realistically look at the players we have and quickly come to the conclusion, I would not bet half my pay packet on this lot!

If there is no perfomance/results based incentive, what is the point of considering paying for the best.

Agree with your opinions on how the new manager should be payed. This is the best thread on here for awhile. I have a bet on Houllier at 40/1 getting the job but he would not be my choice. I don't believe he would be able to get the best out of this current crop of players. We need a strong character (with real football guile)to manage this team. If he is from Argentina, Antrim or Argyle I don't care. Delaney is from the "Hunch" school of football. The forced Irish asistant (or English consultant). Dream team double managers bull****. Swinging from Kerr to Stan and now "continental". Just go and get the best manager available for the money offered.

[Irish_Praha]

I know I keep on about this but I dont think the FAI would have a problem paying out 2/3 million if (a) it gets us to the finals and (b) a good run would guarantee full houses at CP or LR. They would be millions in if that happened.

However, let's say that €3m a year is the price we have to pay, surely at least half of that must be results based, in this case getting us to 2010 finals, so over 2 years €3m in salary and €3 bonus when we qualify.

Do we really think the Scolari's, Lippi's would work on that basis?

I don't, and certainly not until the draw for the qualifying groups is made. I also think they would realistically look at the players we have and quickly come to the conclusion, I would not bet half my pay packet on this lot!

If there is no perfomance/results based incentive, what is the point of considering paying for the best.

Throwing every last cent available at a top manager has lots of risks attached to it too. If we fail to qualify for the next two competitions and spend all that is available on an expensive senior team manager it's bound to take some much needed investment away from the grass roots level. Then the development of the game in this country could suffer badly and we would be back to square one looking for a cheap manager to get us to a WC or EC. I like the idea of the results based salary. He could be offered a decent enough basic salary without breaking the bank and if they qualify for something he gets his bonus and the FAI gets the added cash from taking part in a tournament. If they fail to qualify then the money on his bonus is saved.
I hope this is how they do it.

[SuperDave]

Ferguson is Scottish. Scotland has produced better coaches than anywhere else in these islands. Which Scottish candidates are being suggested for the Ireland job? NOBODY.

To answer your other question Danny Mills got 25 caps for England. He wouldn't have gotten 1 for Ireland had he been eligible.

Mr G Souness?

Anywho, re the qualification bonus, the manager should also get a bonus based on crowds. cos if we're only pulling in 40,000, we're doind something wrong and the manager has to bear part of the responsibility for that. more money for full houses, more money if we qualify. Incentivise!

[jmurphyc]

Can't see a bonus based on crowds being able to work. For starters I can't see many manager (if any) agreeing to that. Besides Staunton would have got virtually all of his bonus up until the Germany match. Would it not just be easier to have a bonus based on results?

[SuperDave]

Can't see a bonus based on crowds being able to work. For starters I can't see many manager (if any) agreeing to that. Besides Staunton would have got virtually all of his bonus up until the Germany match. Would it not just be easier to have a bonus based on results?


well, yeah, but as pointed out before, most guys are going to look at our group and think, i have no chance of qualifying, so why base half my salary on that.

maybe better would be 3m over two years, 3m for first, 2m for second and 1m for third type bonuses. though that is still a big step up from the 650k combined they were paying laurel and hardy.

either way, a big bonus based solely on qualifying or not qualifying isn't going to work.

[jmurphyc]

When I said a bonus based on results I meant just that. There can be a bonus for qualifying as well of course, but have a bonus either for a win or draw, or even better, maybe based on the number of points we get. Anyway, in terms of groups, we should be 3rd seeds so I'd be surprised if anyone that takes the job would think they have no chance of qualifying. Even if we're in a toughish group I'd say we'd have a decent shot at making the finals (or the play offs if they're being used for 2010).

[SuperDave]

When I said a bonus based on results I meant just that. There can be a bonus for qualifying as well of course, but have a bonus either for a win or draw, or even better, maybe based on the number of points we get. Anyway, in terms of groups, we should be 3rd seeds so I'd be surprised if anyone that takes the job would think they have no chance of qualifying. Even if we're in a toughish group I'd say we'd have a decent shot at making the finals (or the play offs if they're being used for 2010).

yeah, it will be playoffs. europe has 13 places, and there will be nine groups. but get this, the worst second placed team WILL NOT make the playoffs. The nine group winners plus 4/8 second placed teams in a playoff. 8 groups of six and one of five.

[Ireland4ever]

..........I can't see them queuing up to manage us especially for the type of money the FAI will offer.



Bull****, the market in England warps out view on wages and the figures managers are expecting. Look at Italy, only two of the managers are earning more than a million a year... The wages we can afford are more than enough. It wont be down to wages why we dont get the right man.

[EalingGreen]

British and Irish teams cannot retain possession of the football... FACT.
British and Irish teams do not seem to be able to defend for 90 minutes without making mistakes... FACT. The standard of defending in the Premiership is mostly woegeous. Any country that give Danny Mills 25 caps while at the same time leaving out better players has serious problems.


Mills gained 19 caps, all of them awarded by a continental manager, Erikkson, who prior to taking over the England job had managed successfully in Sweden, Portugal and Italy... FACT.

[EalingGreen]

I know I keep on about this but I dont think the FAI would have a problem paying out 2/3 million if (a) it gets us to the finals and (b) a good run would guarantee full houses at CP or LR. They would be millions in if that happened.

However, let's say that €3m a year is the price we have to pay, surely at least half of that must be results based, in this case getting us to 2010 finals, so over 2 years €3m in salary and €3 bonus when we qualify.

Do we really think the Scolari's, Lippi's would work on that basis?

I don't, and certainly not until the draw for the qualifying groups is made. I also think they would realistically look at the players we have and quickly come to the conclusion, I would not bet half my pay packet on this lot!

If there is no perfomance/results based incentive, what is the point of considering paying for the best.

A salary of €3 million, if offered, might expect to attract a serious number of applications, including from some highly qualified candidates. However, there is no guarantee that it would attract the top drawer applicants who might come as close to "guaranteeing" success as is possible in football. That is because club football in Europe - esp England - has long moved beyond that salary level for managers.

In fact, Spurs may just have raised the bar even further, considering they had to pay Jol somewhere over €6m (£4m Stg.) to buy out the remainder of his contract, so that they could get Ramos in, on a salary reported as €10m (£6m) a year. (Plus, of course, Spurs will have to find the money to pay his background team etc)

Interestingly, when NI appointed Sanchez, he was probably their second choice behind Jimmy Nicholl, who is said to have turned it down because the money wasn't enough. Nicholl is Assistant Manager at Aberdeen. And it is reported that Sanchez was on around €150k (£100k) a year basic, though apparently he also was cute enough to negotiate a bonus of €1,500 (£1000) for every place NI rose in the FIFA Rankings. This alone earned him almost a years salary extra during his time in charge!

[Stuttgart88]

What I want is an experienced manager who is able to choose the right players, the right system, get the most out of those players and have them performing to the best of their ability as a team. Where he (or she!!) comes from doesn't matter at all.Same here, but my suspicion is it'll have to be a continental manager to do this. I also think this group of players needs a coach who'll automatically command respect and get performances from the underachievers.

On ball retention: Jim Craig was on 5 Live on Saturday answering a question on why Celtic struggle away in the CL. He says they simply don't hold the ball well enough, a failing that has cost England badly in recent tournament finals (but has been less obvious with us because we haven't even been competitive).

Craig was saying that good teams will move the ball wide and if an opportunity doesn't present itself they'll move it across the middle to the other side and so on. The style in Britain is to play it back to the defenders who'll hoof it up the pitch!

[paul_oshea]

Link:
http://dynamic.rte.ie/quickaxs/209-r...007-10-27.smil

Interview starts about 7 and a half minutes in.

I cant view this in work, is there a podcast or media player version or something?

[Lionel Ritchie]

Mills gained 19 caps, all of them awarded by a continental manager, Erikkson, who prior to taking over the England job had managed successfully in Sweden, Portugal and Italy... FACT.

Fair comment. I thought the English FA had finally cracked it when they appointed a non-UK coach. BUT I think it's the case that Erikkson went wrong on exactly the kind of thing that the FA feared from an English coach ...letting tabloids pick your squads. This of course culminated in the calamitous, ridiculous, utterly pointless inclusion of a 17 year old he'd not seen play, who'd never kicked a ball in the top flight in a WC squad.

[Stuttgart88]

Was Ericsson that bad? He made qualification a formality for them and qualification to QF level a virtual formaility too. They had never had that status before. Qualification was very often achieved in the past but was rarely as straightforward as it was in Sven's time.

It interests me that some in the press are saying Beenhakker has "turned Poland around". They actually qualified at a canter for WC06.

[paul_oshea]

This of course culminated in the calamitous, ridiculous, utterly pointless inclusion of a 17 year old he'd not seen play, who'd never kicked a ball in the top flight in a WC squad.


Nah, Lionel there was a very sutble reason for that, he was masking something else!!

Erikkson consistently got them to all tournaments without fuss and with a very good record.

[Stuttgart88]

Beenhakker's record is superb, look at what he did with T&T, getting them to the World Cup in Germany. Who did they beat to qualify? Not a pointed question, I honestly have no idea.

[youngirish]

Was Ericsson that bad? He made qualification a formality for them and qualification to QF level a virtual formaility too. They had never had that status before. Qualification was very often achieved in the past but was rarely as straightforward as it was in Sven's time.

It interests me that some in the press are saying Beenhakker has "turned Poland around". They actually qualified at a canter for WC06.


Eriksson was the prime example of the all to familar scapegoat for the English media and the fans that we've all become acccustomed to over the years.

As they believed they just had to show up to tournaments to be crowned champions because their players were so much better than anything else available to the other participating nations it must have been the managers fault when they failed at the quarter finals stage in three successive tournaments.

Judging from how they are doing now under McClaren and how they were doing before under Keegan with many of the same players Eriksson had worked with maybe, just maybe their players and team aren't the world beaters they hype them up to be (with no justification I may add).

Or maybe it's just more likely they can't get a good manager for their International team. After all Eriksson is doing a dismal job at City, isn't he?

[geysir]

I cant view this in work, is there a podcast or media player version or something?
It´s hard to view it with your ears.
You can listen to it with Real Player.

[Tipp Townie]

Who did they beat to qualify? Not a pointed question, I honestly have no idea.

Even though its not pointed, its a good point!

The decent results of USA and Mexico at WC2002 meant that North and Central America had potentially 4 qualifying spots for WC2006. So once they and Costa Rica had wrapped up the first three spots, it came down to a fight between T&T and Guatemala for the fourth spot. T&T came through that and then had to play-off with the '5th best' Asian team, Bahrain, over two legs.

I guess Beenhakker's main achievement was more how well T&T held themselves at the actual finals in Germany. They certainly gave Sweden and England a fright.

[Tipp Townie]

[QUOTE=Tipp Townie;803130] So once they and Costa Rica had wrapped up the first three spots, it came down to a fight between T&T and Guatemala for the fourth spot. QUOTE]

Actually, to be fair, T&T needed a result in their last match at home to Mexico to qualify for the play-offs, and they did it, 2-1. Which is pretty good going really, although i don't know how strong a team Mexico put out.

[Stuttgart88]

Disagree wrt Troussier. I came back from a week off expecting to see Geysir apoplectic at his mere mention, though I see he's calmed a bit. I suppose it's all relative: Stan vs [insert random manager] and the latter will always look good.

[citizenerased]

houllier all the way

[Wolfie]

houllier all the way

Just imagine how many times the Star and the Sun would run headlines with puns along the lines of "Hooley- ole" etc for the away games.

[geysir]

Sounds better that one with 'Troussier on his last legs'.