Left Wing Clubs?

[Da Real Rover]

Does anyone know of clubs with a big left wing tradition in World football? I know of the likes of Livorno, Marseille, St Pauli, Celtic, Hibs, Besiktas etc but any other information would be appreciated.

[jebus]

Celtic, Hibs

Yes you really get that left wing, warm, fuzzy, everyone together feeling around Parkhead when Rangers/Hearts/Dundee etc. visit :rolleyes: About as truly left-wing as AC Milan, who also claim to be left of the center

[NeilMcD]

If Celtic are left wing well then so are Man Utd as Ferguson voted Labour once.

[Lim till i die]

Celtic, Hibs,

You're taking the pi$$ right??

Maybe back in the 80s when all the fans were on the dole

Olympiacos are another club of the left from the docks area of Athens

In Italy other left wing clubs would be Atalanta, Bologna (Far left) and Perugia (Very far left)

Roma and Fiorentina would have traditionally been clubs of the left but their curvas have ceded to the far right in recent years

I'm sure there's a good few more examples in Italy, they're all I can think of off the top of my head at the minute

Football in Germany and Spain* wouldn't be as politicised but just for example 1860 Munich would be the working class yin to FC Bayerns middle class yang

*Any ultras there are in Spain are almost by definition far right

The club of the working class in Madrid is Rayo Vallecano.

The club of the working class in Seville would be Real Betis.

(Going to be crucified by Dodge) Many Espanyol fans would be second or third generation working class "immigrants" into Catalonia. Would be very much a right wing club though

Levante from the docks area of Valencia would be considered leftist


About as truly left-wing as AC Milan, who also claim to be left of the center

In fairness their curva would still consider themselves anti-facist and would sing The Red Flag, Bella Ciao etc with the Livorno fans when they visit.

Pity about the clubs owner :p

[superfrank]

About as truly left-wing as AC Milan, who also claim to be left of the center
Of course, Berlusconi is the modern day Lenin.

I recently read John Foot's book on Italian football "Calcio" which gave some political background to some of the clubs. Livorno are traditionally the left club but others have defined political leanings too or their fans do.

Lazio's fans, not the club, associate themselves with the neo-Fascist movement in Italy. Celtic crosses are a Fascist symbol in Italy. Roma's fans have switched back and forth between right and left at various stages over the years. Verona (iirc) have a strong reputation as a racist club. I could get more info if I remembered what page to look for.

I also took out a book from the college library yesterday called "Understanding Soccer Hooliganism". If there's anything to do with political leanings I'll report back.

[Da Real Rover]

Yes you really get that left wing, warm, fuzzy, everyone together feeling around Parkhead when Rangers/Hearts/Dundee etc. visit :rolleyes: About as truly left-wing as AC Milan, who also claim to be left of the center

Many fans of both Hibs and Celtic are members of the James Connolly socialist society (not the exact name). There fans were also extremely active in the Red Action movement in the 80s. More noteable examples was Red Action recruiting members of the CSC and CCS as the front lines in the marches against the skin heads and BNP hate rallys. Who ever said the left wing was warm and fuzzy?? All facts and now time to throw your condescending :rolleyes:. If you dont have any new information then please dont derail the debate.

[stojkovic]

Milan may lean to the left in repsonse to Internazionale being a shower of nazis from top to bottom.

They were originally called Ambrossiana but changed it in the 30s..

Their fans displayed banners about Arkan to appease their fascist players Stankovic and Mijhailovic.

Lazio are just as bad.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Sinisa Mihajlovic comes from Vukovar and his family were subjected to death threats during the Civil War until he managed to get them out to Italy. Civil Wars give rise to that sort of thing on a huge scale as well as atrocities where sometimes literally it's neighbour against neighbour or as happened here, brother against brother . I think given what happened to his family some of his views have been coloured by his experiences. While I disassociate myself completely from Fascism you have to understand that he might have issues with the people who forced his family to flee Vukovar permanently.He would be a bloody saint if he didn't have issues over that episode.

I don't know much about Stankovic so I am not in a position to comment about his view opinions or experiences one way or the other. Except to say that given Mr. Hitler's opinions about Slavs that Slavs who are Fascist are a bit like turkeys who vote for Christmas!

[stojkovic]

I don't know much about Stankovic so I am not in a position to comment about his view opinions or experiences one way or the other. Except to say that given Mr. Hitler's opinions about Slavs that Slavs who are Fascist are a bit like turkeys who vote for Christmas!

You don't know much about WWII either.

[CollegeTillIDie]

You don't know much about WWII either.

Hitler sent hundreds of thousands of Slavs to the gas chambers. As he outlined in his Mein Kampf they were next on his hitlist after The Jews.
From ex Yugoslavia alone , there were around 250,000 Serbs. What is your point exactly?

[Poor Student]

He's probably talking about the Ustashe, some very fascist Slavs.

[Poor Student]

Yes you really get that left wing, warm, fuzzy, everyone together feeling around Parkhead when Rangers/Hearts/Dundee etc. visit :rolleyes:

So Livorno fans would welcome Lazio fans witth open arms? You'll struggle to find a more reactionary bunch of fans than at Rangers and Hearts in Scotland.

[CollegeTillIDie]

He's probably talking about the Ustashe, some very fascist Slavs.
Yes Poor Student I am talking about them . Understanding about that outfit explains a lot of the factors which contributed to the Civil War in ex-Yugoslavia. The Krajina Serbs did not wish to be governed by their neighbours the Croats , which was/is the nationality of the Ustashe. The Bosnian Serbs in Eastern Bosnia had similar reservations and also had an issue with President Itzebegovic, The Bosnian Muslim leader, who wrote a paper in the 1960's advocating a Muslim State. That was interpreted by Bosnian Serbs and Bosnian Croats alike to mean Sharia Law and was baulked at hugely.

To get back to my previous post Hitler had Slavic people in general as second on his list of ''untermenschen'' for obliteration after The Jews in '' Mein Kampf ''. Hence my comments about Fascist Slavs being like turkeys who vote for Christmas.

I don't think either of the big two clubs in Belgrade can be described as Left wing now even though they were both founded in 1945, one being Partizan , which would hint at left-wingness; and Red Star. I mean how Communist a symbol do you need? But neither in their present form and certainly not in their support bases could be described as left-wing in 2007.

[superfrank]

Sinisa Mihajlovic comes from Vukovar and his family were subjected to death threats during the Civil War until he managed to get them out to Italy. Civil Wars give rise to that sort of thing on a huge scale as well as atrocities where sometimes literally it's neighbour against neighbour or as happened here, brother against brother . I think given what happened to his family some of his views have been coloured by his experiences. While I disassociate myself completely from Fascism you have to understand that he might have issues with the people who forced his family to flee Vukovar permanently.
Surely everyone in this country can understand that people hold grudges against other nations about things that happened in the past. This can also influence political views. In Mihajlovic's case it actually happened in his lifetime.

[Poor Student]

I don't think either of the big two clubs in Belgrade can be described as Left wing now even though they were both founded in 1945, one being Partizan , which would hint at left-wingness; and Red Star. I mean how Communist a symbol do you need? But neither in their present form and certainly not in their support bases could be described as left-wing in 2007.

I don't much about the current Partizan fan base but from what I know they were the more left leaning club. Red Star tend to attract the scummier ultra nationalist Cetnik type.

Environment can explain but can't excuse support for a cretinous thug like Arkan. I thought the whole Arkan banner thing happened at Lazio. I thought things had cooled off by the time both moved to Inter.

[Da Real Rover]

I don't much about the current Partizan fan base but from what I know they were the more left leaning club. Red Star tend to attract the scummier ultra nationalist Cetnik type.


I thought the Belgrade clubs were not necessarily divided on left wing or right wing politics?
Were Partizan not the club of all nationalities in the former Yugoslavia and advocated the whole Yugoslav identity. They were Titos club in Belgrade.

While Red Star were the serbian nationalist club and were fiercely patriotic. After the calamity of Milosovic it was these fans who were heavely involved in the sparking of the demonstrations against him for how he screwed the country.

[SligoBrewer]

Does anyone know of clubs with a big left wing tradition in World football? .

manchester united always a couple of good left wingers.

best, giggs and this ronaldo fella could be one of the best left wingers ever

[DaveyCakes]

[QUOTE=CollegeTillIDie;802512]
To get back to my previous post Hitler had Slavic people in general as second on his list of ''untermenschen'' for obliteration after The Jews in '' Mein Kampf ''. Hence my comments about Fascist Slavs being like turkeys who vote for Christmas.

[QUOTE]

Fascism is not defined purely in terms of German National Socialism.

[Da Real Rover]

manchester united always a couple of good left wingers.

best, giggs and this ronaldo fella could be one of the best left wingers ever

Funny....

[Lim till i die]

Many fans of both Hibs and Celtic are members of the James Connolly socialist society (not the exact name). There fans were also extremely active in the Red Action movement in the 80s. More noteable examples was Red Action recruiting members of the CSC and CCS as the front lines in the marches against the skin heads and BNP hate rallys.

80s being the important word there mate.

As I had already pointed out above.

BTW, political wing of the INLA?!?! :eek:

[Lim till i die]

Hitler sent hundreds of thousands of Slavs to the gas chambers. As he outlined in his Mein Kampf they were next on his hitlist after The Jews.
From ex Yugoslavia alone , there were around 250,000 Serbs. What is your point exactly?

Slavs sent 1000s of Slavs to the gas chambers.

Croats massacaring Serbs to be more precise (If a little over simplistic)

Also by the closing days of the war the Waffen SS was choked with Slavs, Croats and Ukranians in particular.

I would agree with you though that given history any Pole or Serb (amongst some others) who is facist is also a bit of a retard

[superfrank]

LTID's post reminded me of that Ross Kemp's Gangs episode with the Polish neo-Nazis who showed up at football matches to start trouble. I don't think they identify themselves as fans of those teams, simply as fascists looking for trouble.

I also took out a book from the college library yesterday called "Understanding Soccer Hooliganism". If there's anything to do with political leanings I'll report back.
This book is mainly to do with the mentality of English football hooligans. It's more about classism than political belief.

[gilberto_eire]

He's probably talking about the Ustashe, some very fascist Slavs.

lucky they didnt put a M before there name anyway:D

[sligoman]

lucky they didnt put a M before there name anyway:DWhy? Unless you meant Mustache, which is spelt different than the way you're implying;)

[CollegeTillIDie]

Fascism is not defined purely in terms of German National Socialism.

Well Nazism advocated sending Slavs to the ovens they were as I say next on the hit list once the final solution had been completed. I think that to adopt a philosophy any branch of which advocated your own annihilation is like I said ''turkeys voting for Christmas'' my point is still valid.

Well said Lim Till Die


I would agree with you though that given history any Pole or Serb (amongst some others) who is facist is also a bit of a retard

[Da Real Rover]

80s being the important word there mate.

As I had already pointed out above.

BTW, political wing of the INLA?!?! :eek:

Ahh but that was when Left Wing political activism was highest in Britain and is thus easier to identify the grass roots politcal leanings of British Clubs. They are still clubs of left wing leanings, which is why the CSC and CCS refuse to join a Scottish national firm with Hearts, Rangers and Airdrie because of there far right leanings. Many members of each being involved in The BNP and The National Front.
If you still refute them being Left Wing Clubs have a look at some of the photos of the green brigade. Many flags of Che Guevara etc. So in conclusion, Hibs and Celtic are where the grassroots in the majority identify themselves with the left of centre.

BTW who are on a first strike policy.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Doesn't seem to be any ideological leanings for any Eircom League of Ireland clubs though does there?

[superfrank]

Doesn't seem to be any ideological leanings for any Eircom League of Ireland clubs though does there?
What about the Dundalk Shed Boys and their parade of flags of freedom struggles?

Up North, surely Linfield and Donegal Celtic are associated (mainly) with both sides of the political debate.

[Stuttgart88]

Isn't a lot of Italian football divided along fascist / communist lines?

Roma = communist roots / lazio = fascist roots for example.

Wasn't there a furore about 15 years ago when the then compulsory skanger speckle in Fiorentina's strip was alleged to resemble a swastika?

On Celtic, it's obvious that their core support is from the Irish nationalist / catholic community, but they also draw support from non-catholics as they're seen as the non-establishment club. The Scottish "establishment" is very right wing and hence Celtic draws support from middle class liberal types , non-catholics, across Scotland too. Can't comment on Hibs.

[BohsPartisan]

Roma were Mussolini's club! They were founded through a forced amalgamation of Rome clubs during Fascist rule.

As for EL clubs.
We have some flags of a left wing nature - Che etc. but its very unofficial. Derry have that too.

Atalanta are a left wing club

[superfrank]

Roma were Mussolini's club! They were founded through a forced amalgamation of Rome clubs during Fascist rule.
Whilst the forced amalgamation in 1927, iirc, is true, it has never been proved that they were Mussolini's club. To quote John Foot's "Calcio": "For years rumours circulated about the role of the Fascist government in that Roma triumph (1942) but no real evidence of wrongdoing has ever emerged."

In the same chapter, the author notes the rumours that Mussolini was, supposedly, a Lazio fan.

In the 1920's Bologna won a title due to direct influence from the Fascists. Leandro Arpinati was a Bologna fan and president of the Italian football federation, having being installed by Mussolini, at the time. In 1925 they beat Genoa in the fourth replay of the championship playoff after crowd trouble and dodgy refereeing in at least two of the previous four games.

[BohsPartisan]

Ah yeah, you're right. I read Calcio but it was some time back.

[superfrank]

Ah yeah, you're right. I read Calcio but it was some time back.
It's a great book. Best book on Italian football I've found anyway.

[Stuttgart88]

On the way into the stadium for the Italy vs Ireland WC QF in 1990 I was wearing a Roma scarf tied around my head having exchanged scarves with fans earlier in the day. I was manhandled by the police, had my scarf ripped off my, had it spat on and thrown away. It only dawned on me later that the cops must have been Lazio fans!

[superfrank]

My brother now lives in Rome and is a Roma supporter. He's always telling me about the dirty looks he gets from Lazio fans if he wears a Roma hat or jacket when he's on the train.

[Valencia Hoop]

In this day and age is there such thing as a left-wing football club? Fans may have a certain philosophy but all clubs operate in the free market that is modern football. Also, ultra groups may the most vociferous fans but aren’t necessarily representative of the general fanbase.

Anyway, Spain:

Most Spanish are to the right but in the regions where desire for more autonomy is strongest (Basque Country, Catalunya, Galicia) ultras are almost all to the left.

Seville city is a funny one. Traditionally Betis are the working class team and Sevilla are more middle class but their ultras go against the grain - Biris (Sevilla) are left-wing and Supporters Gol Sur (Betis) are fairly facha.

Cádiz fans have a long tradition of being to the left and off the top of my head Burgos, Tenerife and Málaga all have leftie groups.

In Valencia, Levante would be more working class and Valencia more bourgeois origins. There isn’t a huge rivalry between the teas though purely because LUD have only had five seasons in Primera and Valencia (like to) see Real Madrid and FC Barcelona as our rivals. Unfortunately the Valencia ultras Yomus are fascist scum. The group I’m in, Gol Gran, has seen better days but has always been apolitical.

Espanyol are not as right-wing as you might think, their nazi ultras are a small group compared to the Penya Juvenil. On an individual basis, pericos I have met have been very sound and not at all right-wing. FCB’s philosophy is all about Catalan nationalism and any supposed socialism comes a distant second.

[Lim till i die]

Ahh but that was when Left Wing political activism was highest in Britain and is thus easier to identify the grass roots politcal leanings of British Clubs.

Bullspit

By the logic you're using Liverpool and Everton are far left clubs


If you still refute them being Left Wing Clubs have a look at some of the photos of the green brigade. Many flags of Che Guevara etc.

LMFAO :D

If there's a bigger symbo of capitalism today then a picture of fcuking Che Guevara I'm yet to see it


Most Spanish are to the right but in the regions where desire for more autonomy is strongest (Basque Country, Catalunya, Galicia) ultras are almost all to the left.

Basque Nationalism has always been associated with Catholic, right wing jiggery pokery, has it not??

Barcelonas most active Ultras are far right (and fairly pathetic to boot)


In the 1920's Bologna won a title due to direct influence from the Fascists.

Was one man in fairness

Bologna has always been a red town so majority of their fans left wing

Venezia aswell while I think of it.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Up North, surely Linfield and Donegal Celtic are associated (mainly) with both sides of the political debate.

I did say the Republic and I would argue that there is no left/right divide politically among fans down here or in the North.

[Lim till i die]

I did say the Republic and I would argue that there is no left/right divide politically among fans down here or in the North.

True that but understandable

Football Clubs support are merely a cross section of the views of the area they represent* and since there's no left right divide in Irish politics...............


*Thus of course making Limerick the anti-establishment loony club :p

[DaveyCakes]

Bullspit

LMFAO :D

If there's a bigger symbo of capitalism today then a picture of fcuking Che Guevara I'm yet to see it


hear hear.

[Closed Account 2]

Sinisa Mihajlovic comes from Vukovar and his family were subjected to death threats during the Civil War until he managed to get them out to Italy...

Borovo Selo actually, it's about 10km outside of Vukovar... it's where the war started. Croatian militia attacked the town with missiles from Austria. Mihajlovic 's mum was Croat his dad was Serb, he always said he was a "Yugoslav" not a Croat or a Serb.

This is a documentary about it in Serbo Croat with French subtitles.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2216605700430993476&q=the+last+yugoslavian

[osarusan]

If there's a bigger symbo of capitalism today then a picture of fcuking Che Guevara I'm yet to see it.

how about this one?
(http://img.search.com/8/8c/300px-Mcdonalds_golden_arches_sign.jpg)

or this one? (http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2975869/2/istockphoto_2975869_american_flag_and_money.jpgth)

[CollegeTillIDie]

Borovo Selo actually, it's about 10km outside of Vukovar... it's where the war started. Croatian militia attacked the town with missiles from Austria. Mihajlovic 's mum was Croat his dad was Serb, he always said he was a "Yugoslav" not a Croat or a Serb.

This is a documentary about it in Serbo Croat with French subtitles.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2216605700430993476&q=the+last+yugoslavian

Thanks for the link I have wanted that film for ages. I tried to download it hopefully it worked :D. Sinisa did see himself as a Yugoslav as did many people with mixed ethnic parentage and indeed several minority ethic groups did too. Ot was an inclusive identity unlike the narrow nationalistic identities which the Federation split into.

[jebus]

how about this one?
(http://img.search.com/8/8c/300px-Mcdonalds_golden_arches_sign.jpg)

or this one? (http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2975869/2/istockphoto_2975869_american_flag_and_money.jpgth)

Nope Che takes it, in that his image has been raped by capitalism until he has become eternally linked with that ideology. McDonalds and America have never pretending to be anything other than money driven whores.

As for Celtic being left wing, don't make me ****ing laugh is all I'll say. Sure they have left wing elements, as do Rangers (http://rangersantifascist.net/), but on a whole they haven't taken a political stance as a club since they realised there was money to be had in appealing to everyone, it just so happens that that includes people who like to think they are left wing because they own a Palestinian flag. I'd say Celtic are seen as left wing to Rangers right wing because of the BNP nonsense that a lot of Rangers' supporters tend to go in for in talk, if not in action.

As for Eircom League clubs, well there's a split in the L37 fans (or 4 of us to be precise) in what flags to bring. So far we have brought the flags of Cuba, the Basque, Palestine, Israel, and the USA among others, but we have also paraded a Lazio flag and a Hellas Verona one as well. I think it's more fun for us than any serious political divide (I mean Israel fair enough, but the US flag?!? :p)

[geysir]

There is something sinister with that Limerick 37 logo.


Sure they have left wing elements, as do Rangers (http://rangersantifascist.net/)

You call that a left wing element?
It's clearly 'we are right wing but we don't mind the odd black joining'.

[Stuttgart88]

I did say the Republic and I would argue that there is no left/right divide politically among fans down here or in the North.The only left / right divide I know of in LOI football is the one where you head north up towards Drumcondra and you turn left for Bohs, turn right for Shels.

[Dodge]

(Going to be crucified by Dodge) Many Espanyol fans would be second or third generation working class "immigrants" into Catalonia. Would be very much a right wing club though


Why would I crucify you? Maybe your implication that the working class are automatically left wing? ;) FCB have about 50 right wing ultras. Thats not an understimate.

Irish football is not politicised and any attempt from fans on here to say their club is "left wing" is ridiculous. Yeah BohsPartisan, I'm talking to you...

Calling Celtic or Hibs left wing is ridiculous. Just because a clubs' fans are less right wing than their major rivals doesn't mean they're left wing.

Roma fans are a classic example of this. Less right wing than Lazio but nothing like communists. Their "Irish Clan" group being on the most right wing factions they have, using the well known fascist symbol; the celtic cross.

[MyTown]

Very enjoyable thread lads.

I'd always thought Hibs had a much more genuine Irish working class genesis than the Glasgow team that has appropriated that heritage, but Ltid's early post seems to suggest both Scottish clubs are now much of a muchness.

In the Irish context, there are identifiable left wing roots in local Junior soccer in Galway, but nothing on a national scale comes to mind.

East of the river Corrib, Mervue United had working class beginnings, while on the west Salthill Devon would always have been seen as part of a socail elite rather than any rabid form of Toryism. But the Celtic Tiger seems to have blurred all boundaries and the challenge for all teams now is to attract the next generation of players.

Clubs from county Galway (rather than the city) are the ones achieving success and honours now.This has something to do with greater mobillity of players, I think. In the past, you went to games in a car, packing in as many players as you could. Now, a player who previously was confined to playing for his local team, can move to any club he wants to in his district league area. My local club hired a coach last week for a team of 12year olds and treated them to a pre and post match meal. Okay it was a long journey, but it was literally a million miles away from my own pre-teen years when you brought boots, shorts, packed into the car, hoped it didn't break down, p***ed in the bushes, and were grateful to wear a damp jersey at least six sizes too big, that the lad in charge (we never had "coaches") had nicked / borrowed off his older broother, or a lad down the road. Not quite Angelas Ashes, but we can forget any pretensions to left wing / working class heritage, where I come from, despite being a dyed in the wool Michael D. Higgins supporter.

[Da Real Rover]

Bullspit

By the logic you're using Liverpool and Everton are far left clubs



LMFAO :D

If there's a bigger symbo of capitalism today then a picture of fcuking Che Guevara I'm yet to see it





Did the Liverpool and Everton fans take an active part in the Left Wing movement in the 80s, ie fighting Skinheads and the far right rallys?? I dont know the history or traditions of the fans so I wont pretend to know the story or draw a conclusion. And as for the other comment, I have never read so something so stupid in all my life? Please tell me how Che Guevara is a symbol of capitalism? Anyway its irrelevant, you can be left wing and capitalist.

[Stuttgart88]

Did the Liverpool and Everton fans take an active part in the Left Wing movement in the 80s,
Bobby Grant certainly was a left wing activist. Not sure if he was a red or a blue though.