Left Wing Clubs?

[OneRedArmy]

In France PSG would be considered very right wing (particularly the Boulogne Boys) but the other curva (Auteil, Lutece etc) appears to be a lose alliance more to the left and who have fought on and off with the right wing element over the past few years, frequently having to be segregated in away grounds.

We were strongly advised not to bring the Che banner.....and didn't.

[Steve Bruce]

Nope Che takes it, in that his image has been raped by capitalism until he has become eternally linked with that ideology. McDonalds and America have never pretending to be anything other than money driven whores.

As for Celtic being left wing, don't make me ****ing laugh is all I'll say. Sure they have left wing elements, as do Rangers (http://rangersantifascist.net/), but on a whole they haven't taken a political stance as a club since they realised there was money to be had in appealing to everyone, it just so happens that that includes people who like to think they are left wing because they own a Palestinian flag. I'd say Celtic are seen as left wing to Rangers right wing because of the BNP nonsense that a lot of Rangers' supporters tend to go in for in talk, if not in action.

As for Eircom League clubs, well there's a split in the L37 fans (or 4 of us to be precise) in what flags to bring. So far we have brought the flags of Cuba, the Basque, Palestine, Israel, and the USA among others, but we have also paraded a Lazio flag and a Hellas Verona one as well. I think it's more fun for us than any serious political divide (I mean Israel fair enough, but the US flag?!? :p)

It's funny people asking who is left etc.

Celtic and Rangers are not really anything because as you said their is too much money to be made from everyone.

Slightly off the subject of teams, in Sinn Fein, Gerry Adams is a lefty but McGinness(sp?) is known to be very much on the right. ALthough I do accept Sinn Fein are on the left as a party.

[BohsPartisan]

Irish football is not politicised and any attempt from fans on here to say their club is "left wing" is ridiculous. Yeah BohsPartisan, I'm talking to you...



The club itself has no political ethos but we have a lot of leftie fans is all I'm saying.
Probably true for quite a few EL clubs though.

Having said that, being democratically owned and run we are always going to be more left wing than the St. Pats Corporation! :p

[Lim till i die]

Did the Liverpool and Everton fans take an active part in the Left Wing movement in the 80s, ie fighting Skinheads and the far right rallys??.

Well there was a socialist council elected in Liverpool at the time :rolleyes:

Besides 80s being a key bit again. It's the year 2007.

D'uh.........


And as for the other comment, I have never read so something so stupid in all my life?

You don't read your own posts?? :eek:


Please tell me how Che Guevara is a symbol of capitalism?

I fear any attempted explanation without the aid of sock puppets would be futile

[Lim till i die]

Why would I crucify you? Maybe your implication that the working class are automatically left wing? ;)

More my implication that since there apparently isn't such a thing as a Catalan working class any more Espanyol are the actual club of the people in Barcelona :p


FCB have about 50 right wing ultras. Thats not an understimate.

The Boixes Nois are allowed to be pretty fcukin visible for such a small group

Why not crush the muppets?? :confused:

[Lim till i die]

While I'm at it, anyone who identifies with Irish Republicanism in the Sinn Fein understanding of it can't class themselves as left wing. What's left wing about hating someone else because of their creed?? Or having economics policies written largely in crayon??

The fcukin stupidity of anyone claiming an exclusionist business like Celtic (And yes I know they are not as exclusionist as Rangers blah, blah, Jock Stein Prod blah, blah) is some paragon of far left virtue is baffling

Tell you what Da Real Rover, next time your over in Paradise inc. start singing James Connolly in the stand see how far you get.

Left wing my hole

The Old Firm. Two clubs who grew fat off sectarianism and now that it's no longer hip are trying to wash their hands of all association :rolleyes:

[MyTown]

The Old Firm. Two clubs who grew fat off sectarianism and now that it's no longer hip are trying to wash their hands of all association

Agree wholeheartedly.

We've differed on loads Ltid, but you're smack on the money there IMO.

[Bluebeard]

Why not crush the muppets?? :confused:
:confused:But wont that just make your attempts to explain that the Che Guevara image is a symbol of captialism to Da Real Rover even more difficult?:confused:

[jebus]

Could someone tell me how Che's image isn't a symbol of capitalism at this stage? Read this before answering please (http://living.scotsman.com/people.cfm?id=1609602007)

[Dodge]

More my implication that since there apparently isn't such a thing as a Catalan working class any more Espanyol are the actual club of the people in Barcelona :p
So only the working class count as people now? ;) Surely if the majority of the people are middle class the club of the middle class would be the clubof the people? And thats if you believe in simple class structures...


The Boixes Nois are allowed to be pretty fcukin visible for such a small group

Why not crush the muppets?? :confused:
Visible but still tiny (in numbers). There's no real need to crush them as they're pretty redundant at this stage

[geysir]

Could someone tell me how Che's image isn't a symbol of capitalism at this stage? Read this before answering please (http://living.scotsman.com/people.cfm?id=1609602007)
The article doesn't write anything more than the image of Che becoming a fashion icon.
The 2 most famous graphic images of Che are "free property", the one big commercial attempt to use the Che image to sell Vodka was successfully challenged in the courts by that photographer.
Other than that, there is just talk by advertising guys on how marketable his name would be and why his image appeals.
No, the image of Che is not a symbol of capitalism,
for the most part he is symbol of a revolutionary being used as an icon for the most part by young people.

[Da Real Rover]

While I'm at it, anyone who identifies with Irish Republicanism in the Sinn Fein understanding of it can't class themselves as left wing. What's left wing about hating someone else because of their creed?? Or having economics policies written largely in crayon??

The fcukin stupidity of anyone claiming an exclusionist business like Celtic (And yes I know they are not as exclusionist as Rangers blah, blah, Jock Stein Prod blah, blah) is some paragon of far left virtue is baffling

Tell you what Da Real Rover, next time your over in Paradise inc. start singing James Connolly in the stand see how far you get.

Left wing my hole

The Old Firm. Two clubs who grew fat off sectarianism and now that it's no longer hip are trying to wash their hands of all association :rolleyes:

Clearly you dont believe what I say, so research the Green brigade. Look at their photos etc, see their political leanings. As for the CSC and the CCS fighting skinheads and the like, well the teenagers who were running around with them mobs back in the 80s are now the primary leaders in the resurgent firms so chances are they have maintained something of there predecessors former beliefs. Also I dont buy into the Sinn Fein model of its warped republicanism, like you said, the sectarianism. I despise it and I despise Sinn Fein for its traditions in Sectarian violence.

[Da Real Rover]

Well there was a socialist council elected in Liverpool at the time :rolleyes:

Besides 80s being a key bit again. It's the year 2007.

D'uh.........



You don't read your own posts?? :eek:



I fear any attempted explanation without the aid of sock puppets would be futile

As for this post?? Trying to deflect your lack of knowledge on this issue with sarcasm. If your going to argue with me on these topics can you please be capable of conducting yourself in a mature manner.

[DaveyCakes]

The article doesn't write anything more than the image of Che becoming a fashion icon.
The 2 most famous graphic images of Che are "free property", the one big commercial attempt to use the Che image to sell Vodka was successfully challenged in the courts by that photographer.
Other than that, there is just talk by advertising guys on how marketable his name would be and why his image appeals.
No, the image of Che is not a symbol of capitalism,
for the most part he is symbol of a revolutionary being used as an icon for the most part by young people.


Ah yes, so all the companies producing Che posters and T-shirts to sell to students are totally committed to left-wing revolutionary politics and aren't at all interested in making a quick buck.

[geysir]

So what, doesn't mean Che is the symbol of capitalism, no more than most of the people who wear his image have a clue about Che.
Nothing stronger that irony.

[Bluebeard]

I would have to agree with lim till i die in that the image of Che Guevara's has become the symbol of Capitalism's (hopefully temporary) victory over Communism and more committed forms of Socialism as much as is the concept of "New Labour" a political example of the same.

While I'm not trying to deny that the likes of Macdonalds produce a far more virulently capitalistic stench, the Che image is hand in glove with Macdonalds as it allows the potential protesters, the ones who slip the Macdonalds net, to be able ot buy into the grand consumption for the sake of consumption. This is much in the way that the likes of Gap and Starbucks grew up as conceptually "Green" corporations - there will always be contrarians - how can we harvest from this fact. So the people who think that they are bucking the capitalist led consumerist culture are subscribing to it by the very act of buying something that reassures consumer capitalism's place in their lives: and before we hear the argument of purchase location, it is generally mass produced in a way that perpetuates the labour exploitation cycle, especially when it is bought from a seemingly black-economy style stall.

Indeed, if I am not mistaken, the most commonly used image was a likeness that Irish artist Jim Fitzpatrick made, and was never paid for - further example of the march of capitalism's grubby impact

It is yet another example of what you could call Marketed-Leninism (as opposed to Market-Leninism) - the nostalgia dollar being eeked out of pseudo-soviet bars like Pravda for the upper orders of the Hamburger classes, the souvenier hats and medals hawked as trophies to the historically conscious travellers, and so forth.

The revolution will be downloaded.

[Da Real Rover]

I would have to agree with lim till i die in that the image of Che Guevara's has become the symbol of Capitalism's (hopefully temporary) victory over Communism and more committed forms of Socialism as much as is the concept of "New Labour" a political example of the same.

While I'm not trying to deny that the likes of Macdonalds produce a far more virulently capitalistic stench, the Che image is hand in glove with Macdonalds as it allows the potential protesters, the ones who slip the Macdonalds net, to be able ot buy into the grand consumption for the sake of consumption. This is much in the way that the likes of Gap and Starbucks grew up as conceptually "Green" corporations - there will always be contrarians - how can we harvest from this fact. So the people who think that they are bucking the capitalist led consumerist culture are subscribing to it by the very act of buying something that reassures consumer capitalism's place in their lives: and before we hear the argument of purchase location, it is generally mass produced in a way that perpetuates the labour exploitation cycle, especially when it is bought from a seemingly black-economy style stall.

Indeed, if I am not mistaken, the most commonly used image was a likeness that Irish artist Jim Fitzpatrick made, and was never paid for - further example of the march of capitalism's grubby impact

It is yet another example of what you could call Marketed-Leninism (as opposed to Market-Leninism) - the nostalgia dollar being eeked out of pseudo-soviet bars like Pravda for the upper orders of the Hamburger classes, the souvenier hats and medals hawked as trophies to the historically conscious travellers, and so forth.

The revolution will be downloaded.


Even though Che's image is being harvested by certain corporations and the like i do not agree with the sweeping statement that Che is now just an image of corporate capitalism. Your argument may stand up in the consumerist market in the west, but do you really think that in Africa, Asia and Latin America that Che is just another marketing tool? He is recognised as the revolutionary of our time by the vast majority of people and if certain segments of the wests population see's him as a marketing tool it in NO way means that is the only image he has. You could say his image has developed into a dual identity, those that still recognise him as the revolutionary and those that recognise him as another marketing tool.

But for the purpose of this debate the clubs who do unveil flags and banners of Che are not doing it for the consumerist market or any capitalist driven marketing campaign, they do it because he is an icon of Revolutionary Left Wing Politics.

[BohsPartisan]

Superbly put.

[kingdom hoop]

...i do not agree with the sweeping statement that Che is now just an image of corporate capitalism.

I wouldn't imagine anyone would agree that Senor Guevara's legacy in this will only be as an image of capitalism. In fairness, the question asked was;


Could someone tell me how Che's image isn't a symbol of capitalism at this stage?

That is a question you implicitly agree to in your post, saying he effectively has a dual identity. It is clear that he is both used as an inspiration for revolution, and, unfortunately, his memory is trivialised by the use of his likeness as a marketing ploy. In other words, the main point is that his image has proliferated because it is iconic. So the question then becomes, is it iconic to the extent it is because of his revolutionary status or because it is seen as being cool by people who have no idea about the man himself? Obviously originally it was because of the political inferences but I think things are very much blurred now and personally I think his image has propagated so much at this stage that it is hard not to think that someone who buys a product with his image does so as they think it's cool as opposed to making a political statement. I agree though that in certain environments (football matches) his effigy is most logically construed in a political guise.


do you really think that in Africa, Asia and Latin America that Che is just another marketing tool?

Not just a marketing tool of course but I think you would be naive to believe companies, whatever the location, do not play on his popularity for their financial benefit. As an example, there is a brand of cigarettes in Peru called El Che with his image adorning the top of the box and near the butt of each cigarette. Clearly he is a marketing tool in that situation. It worked on me anyway! Nice and strong they were too. :)

[Poor Student]

Indeed, if I am not mistaken, the most commonly used image was a likeness that Irish artist Jim Fitzpatrick made, and was never paid for - further example of the march of capitalism's grubby impact


Are you referring to him never being paid for the service or never being paid for the use of the image? Artistic and intellectual property is not a bastion of communist ideology.

[dcfcsteve]

Ahh but that was when Left Wing political activism was highest in Britain and is thus easier to identify the grass roots politcal leanings of British Clubs. They are still clubs of left wing leanings, which is why the CSC and CCS refuse to join a Scottish national firm with Hearts, Rangers and Airdrie because of there far right leanings. Many members of each being involved in The BNP and The National Front.
If you still refute them being Left Wing Clubs have a look at some of the photos of the green brigade. Many flags of Che Guevara etc. So in conclusion, Hibs and Celtic are where the grassroots in the majority identify themselves with the left of centre.

BTW who are on a first strike policy.

Misty-eyed socialist nonesense from someone who endorses the political wing of the INLA.

Liverppol and Everton would have more a left-wing heritage than Celtic would. Who gives a fcuk what haoppened in the 1980's. I've no doubt you'll find a higher percentage of left-leaning voters and trade union members amongst Derry City's support, for example, than Celtics, but that doesn't make City modern-day Stalinists.

Bottom line is that British politics has resoundingly rejected left-wing politics, as finally has Scottish politics about 20 years later (e.g. note the decimiation of the Scottish Socialists in this year's Assembly elections). Politics has moved on, and so have football fans with it. The 1980's may as well be the 1680's for all that it matters now.

[dcfcsteve]

Some countries have a fundamental left-right political split in their football teams.

Cypriot football is extremely politicised. It's roots go back to the Greek civil warc after WWII, as supporters and players of various clubs took sides. APOEL Nicosia is considered the main right wing club, with Omonia the main left wing one. Omonia was estabnlished byp[layers expelled form APOEL for not backing the right-wing side in the Greek civil war, and has been left-wing form the start.

Israel like-wsie has a left-right split in football that refelctes the politics of the country. Hapoel Tel-Aviv, for example, have always been a let-wing team ('Hapoel' is Hebrew for 'workers'). Beitar Jerusalem have been associated with the Israeli-right since the club was founded by the leader of a youth right-wing movement ('Beitar'). Their fans are very anti-Arab, and are associated largely with the Likud party. Hapoel Jerusalem were Beitar's traditional footballing and political rivals, but they've been outside the top league for some time.

Football reflects society. Hence - where you have serious left-right splits in the politics of society, it is likewise carried over into football. Despite what some way want to believe, Britain and Ireland has never had a serious left-right political split - certainly not to the extent that a lot of other European countries did. Hence, pinning certain political labels on English or Scottish clubs is contrived and fairly meaningless. Football in England and Scotland has not existed in some surreal parallel universe where politics has been dramatically more important than within the society in which it operated.

[Bluebeard]

Are you referring to him never being paid for the service or never being paid for the use of the image? Artistic and intellectual property is not a bastion of communist ideology.

If I was referring to the latter, you would of course be right. However, if I am correct in what I have been told (which I may well not be and would liek to be put straight if I'm not please) I am talking about the worker (in this case artist) being exploited by being restricted from access to the profit and benefits derived by his work, i.e. the image.

[Lim till i die]

Misty-eyed socialist nonesense from someone who endorses the political wing of the INLA.

Liverppol and Everton would have more a left-wing heritage than Celtic would. Who gives a fcuk what haoppened in the 1980's. I've no doubt you'll find a higher percentage of left-leaning voters and trade union members amongst Derry City's support, for example, than Celtics, but that doesn't make City modern-day Stalinists.

Bottom line is that British politics has resoundingly rejected left-wing politics, as finally has Scottish politics about 20 years later (e.g. note the decimiation of the Scottish Socialists in this year's Assembly elections). Politics has moved on, and so have football fans with it. The 1980's may as well be the 1680's for all that it matters now.

Thank you very much for saving me from further banging my head against a wall :)

[Lim till i die]

So only the working class count as people now? ;) Surely if the majority of the people are middle class the club of the middle class would be the clubof the people?

Good answer Dodge, saw that coming :p


Visible but still tiny (in numbers). There's no real need to crush them as they're pretty redundant at this stage

In fairness you'd be one of the first to give out about the BSC even though they make up a far higher percentage of Bohs' support

[Da Real Rover]

Misty-eyed socialist nonesense from someone who endorses the political wing of the INLA.

Liverppol and Everton would have more a left-wing heritage than Celtic would. Who gives a fcuk what haoppened in the 1980's. I've no doubt you'll find a higher percentage of left-leaning voters and trade union members amongst Derry City's support, for example, than Celtics, but that doesn't make City modern-day Stalinists.

Bottom line is that British politics has resoundingly rejected left-wing politics, as finally has Scottish politics about 20 years later (e.g. note the decimiation of the Scottish Socialists in this year's Assembly elections). Politics has moved on, and so have football fans with it. The 1980's may as well be the 1680's for all that it matters now.

If you have a problem with my political leanings, PM me because this isnt a debate on politcal parties.
Everything you said there is your own personal opinion, no facts. Untill you can give me some solid facts on Celtics political leaning what you said is irrelevant. Anyone can make your sweeping statements and not have a clue what they are talking about.

[Lim till i die]

Untill you can give me some solid facts on Celtics political leaning what you said is irrelevant.

Irish Republican :confused:

[dcfcsteve]

If you have a problem with my political leanings, PM me because this isnt a debate on politcal parties.
Everything you said there is your own personal opinion, no facts. Untill you can give me some solid facts on Celtics political leaning what you said is irrelevant. Anyone can make your sweeping statements and not have a clue what they are talking about.

Firstly - berating me for mentioning that your signature promotes the political wing of the INLA in the midst of a discussion about the supposed political leanings of football clubs is laughable. My point was hardly off-piste - get over it.

Secondly - I will re-direct everything you said back to yourself. You were the one who made the initial declarations of fact without evidence. You are saying something exists (e.g, Celtic's left-wing leanings), without providing the evidence. Conversely, it is extremely difficult for me to provide evidence that something doesn't exist.

So bar the odd isolated thing from over 20 years ago, please provide evidence regarding the supposed left-wing leanings of the Celtic football club and even a sizeable minority of its fans. I gave examples of clubs in Cyprus and Israel who have very strong and clear political leanings/connections. Let's see the same for Celtic please.

Anyone can make your sweeping statements etc etc etc.... :rolleyes:

[Bottle of Tonic]

I read a book a few years back on Scottish football and politics, sectarianism, the divisions, history etc etc. Can't remember the name of it now but it was done by some academic from Aberdeen University. There were some interesting polls on supporters political opinions, quite a few i think, but one of the ones I remember concerned who supporters of whatever club voted for. Celtic's support voted something in the region of 90% Labour. Rangers two highest were both conservative and labour at about 40% each.

Now I know it doesn't really prove much , 'new labour' and all that, but as a mark of the traditional left in mainstream politics Labour were it and Celtic supporters have traditionally been also labour supporters. I have read many other books/articles/anecdotes to support this fact. I know its not ultra left anarchist stylee, but left anyway.

By the way I couldn't really give a damn about the left, and I'm not trying to score any type of trendy lefty points for the club I support, but I would see them as a mildly left wing club(i.e the support) more than not.

[Billy Lord]

I couldn't give a toss about this debate other than pointing out that leaning to the left hasn't been 'trendy' for three decades. Modern 'trendies' are right wing, even extreme right wing, and use the term 'trendy' as an insult; which only goes to show how stupid most people are at this juncture.
Being stupid is very 'trendy'.

[dcfcsteve]

but as a mark of the traditional left in mainstream politics Labour were it and Celtic supporters have traditionally been also labour supporters.

Look at the Westminster election results for the last 20 years.

Scotland is overwhelmingly Labour supporting. Celtic is therefore nothing unusual in reflecting that. It is Rangers who are unusual.

The North-East of England is also a Labour fiefdom. Does that mean that Newcastle United FC, Sunderland and Middlesborough are some sort of left-wing bastions ? It doesn't.

As I said earlier in this thread, football does not exist in some weird parallel universe or a political vacuum. Clubs reflects the political leanings of the society in which they exist. I'd bet you that a substantial proportion of Celtic fans - probably the majority - donb't even bother to vote these days, as that is how little the society they live within cares about politics these days.

[ASR27]

Regarding Milan - I believe Fossa Dei Leoni was a left-wing ultra movement despite Berlusconi's ownership - and Roma's Commando Ultra Curva Sud CUCS was similarly left-leaning. Roma's Fedayn were 'non-political' but their graffiti features hammer & sickle logos ?! I think Fossa Dei Leoni disbanded when the Juve Vikings stole a Fossa banner ~ an Ultra rule being the loss of a banner means the close of the group!

pity as they were certainly one of the best groups for coreografie in the world... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEGAIrJTt-4

as were the CUCS & Fedayn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQgV77iUBYs

[Jaime]

As far as I know, ASR's CUCS disintegrated purely on the basis of having lost control of the curva, was more to do with power (and splintering of power) than politics but of course the two don't exist in isolation. The story with FdL is pretty much as above, but I don't think BRN are as right-leaning as many will presume - ex-members of FdL still travel to Milan away games in the company of BRN. And the displays - which haven't stopped and won't stop anytime soon - were almost always a joint effort.

Sporting Gijon are one of the most right-wing teams in Spain - in terms of city/population in general, as well as in terms of the police in the city and the fans of the club. A thoroughly unpleasant away trip for Basques, I believe.

[Da Real Rover]

Firstly - berating me for mentioning that your signature promotes the political wing of the INLA in the midst of a discussion about the supposed political leanings of football clubs is laughable. My point was hardly off-piste - get over it.

Secondly - I will re-direct everything you said back to yourself. You were the one who made the initial declarations of fact without evidence. You are saying something exists (e.g, Celtic's left-wing leanings), without providing the evidence. Conversely, it is extremely difficult for me to provide evidence that something doesn't exist.

So bar the odd isolated thing from over 20 years ago, please provide evidence regarding the supposed left-wing leanings of the Celtic football club and even a sizeable minority of its fans. I gave examples of clubs in Cyprus and Israel who have very strong and clear political leanings/connections. Let's see the same for Celtic please.

Anyone can make your sweeping statements etc etc etc.... :rolleyes:


It is off-piste and it derails the debate from the primary topic, which is football clubs leanings.
Throughout my posts on this topic I have given evidence and backed up my statements while you just reply with genralistations.
Granted you do not accept the political activity of Celtic fans 20 years ago as concrete proof of their leanings but it highlights what end of the political spectrum they lean towards. But it does still remain relevant because clubs like the casuals from Rangers, Airdrie, Hearts etc and there right wing leanings and membership of such organisations as the BNP. Due to this the CSC would never join an international a Scottish firm, and still dont, with casuals from these clubs. You may say its because of Celtics great rivalry with Rangers, but on the casual front the CSC's biggest scalps are always the ASC and the CCS, which are Aberdeen and Hibs respectively. Hibs and Celtic fans always had a left wing leaning while those previously mentioned have a right wing leaning. But then the oddity in Scotland is Aberdeen. They ridicule both Celtic and Rangers for there Sectarian nature in there fans. Aberdeen see themselves as distinctively Scottish and embrace everything Scottish.
Now all that is still relevant to today and still applys. If all that does not satisfy you have a look at The Green Brigades banners and displays. One of the most prominant and distinctive is that of their Che Banner with Green Brigade on it. They also have other distinctively left wing banners such as Cuban flags, Palestinian flags etc.
I am not claiming for 1 minute that Celtic is some form of marxist utopia but it certianly identifys itself with the left of centre spectrum. I have given more than enough evidence of their fans political nature, maybe its time you provided some evidence to the contrary instead of worming out of it by claiming its too hard to prove something doesnt exist. Unless you can provide me with facts a debate is pointless.

[Lim till i die]

It is off-piste and it derails the debate from the primary topic, which is football clubs leanings.

Your, ahem, "politics" have no bearing on your contributions to a debate about politics??


Throughout my posts on this topic I have given evidence and backed up my statements while you just reply with genralistations.

Old, old evidence from a bygone age

Also LMFAO at you castigating people for generalisations while nailing a whole clubs mast to the left on the basis of their display and their "firm"


Granted you do not accept the political activity of Celtic fans 20 years ago as concrete proof of their leanings.

It's because it isn't


but it highlights what end of the political spectrum they lean towards

No it doesn't

It highlights what end of the spectrum a section of their support leaned towards 20 years ago. A leaning which at the time was no different then that of the vast, vast, majority of clubs in Scotland and the North of England and as a matter a fact was nowhere near as strong a leaning as some


But it does still remain relevant because clubs like the casuals from Rangers, Airdrie, Hearts etc and there right wing leanings and membership of such organisations as the BNP.

Who gives a $hit?? How is this relevant to Celtic??


Due to this the CSC would never join an international a Scottish firm, and still dont, with casuals from these clubs.

There you go basing it on their "firm" again (Sweet Jesus)


You may say its because of Celtics great rivalry with Rangers,

No but what I will say is it doesn't matter a toss in relation to this debate


but on the casual front the CSC's biggest scalps are always the ASC and the CCS, which are Aberdeen and Hibs respectively.

So what.


Now all that is still relevant to today and still applys. If all that does not satisfy you have a look at The Green Brigades banners and displays. One of the most prominant and distinctive is that of their Che Banner with Green Brigade on it. They also have other distinctively left wing banners such as Cuban flags, Palestinian flags etc.

Oooh, look, a display with a couple of flags

It will take a nation of millions to hold em back......

A girl on the bus today had a Che handbag FFS.


I am not claiming for 1 minute that Celtic is some form of marxist utopia but it certianly identifys itself with the left of centre spectrum.

Big difference between the "left wing" you were claiming and being "left of centre"


I have given more than enough evidence of their fans political nature

You have given big piles of irrelevant and/or outdated twaddle


Unless you can provide me with facts a debate is pointless

If you surveyed 100 random Celtic fans at Parkhead asking who they vote for what do you think the answer would be??

[Da Real Rover]

As for this post?? Trying to deflect your lack of knowledge on this issue with sarcasm. If your going to argue with me on these topics can you please be capable of conducting yourself in a mature manner.

Same again is it?

[Lim till i die]

Same again is it?

LMAO

You haven't had a satisfactory answer for any point I've made in the whole debate so you come out sulking (AGAIN)

Good Answer :rolleyes:

You should really run for the Dail if your "Party" ever decides to recognise it.

[ASR27]

Is Lucarelli the most left-wing player in the modern game?

http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/ccu/lucarelliccu.html
http://www.99amaranto.it/en/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristiano_Lucarelli

he's the only reason I'm following Shaktar Donetsk on their crazy journey around the champions league ...

[Red Army]

Roma's "Irish clan" are non political but the "Boys" ultras are very right wing as is much of the cruva now of days

Barca have banned all political ultras after infighting between different right and left groups I thing a fan got murdered over it. I think they still do displays but nothing major

Do fenerbache (spell) have an antifa Ultra group?

Livorno, Atalanta, Pisa Rayo Vallecano all left too I think Milan still sing the red flag song

Oh and some Sligo Rovers supporters have a few lefty flags too

[The Good Son]

he's the only reason I'm following Shaktar Donetsk on their crazy journey around the champions league ...

You might be following QPR on their crazy journey around the English Championship.

http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/nov15o.html

[kingdom hoop]

You might be following QPR on their crazy journey around the English Championship.



He does seem like the logical next step after getting Bob Malcolm in on loan today. That would be the ex-Rangers Bob who in May 2004 was fined £5,000 after signing "FTP", **** The Pope, alongside an autograph for a fan. Reminds me of the time a few years ago when Neil Ruddock and Vinnie Jones were on the same QPR team. Not exactly befitting a nice corner of west London!

Hopefully Donetsk get knocked out and then we'll see another player have to make that famously tough decision, QPR or Milan. I know who I'd pick. ;)

(by the way, Francesco Coco (ex Milan, Inter, Barca) is on trial at QPR at the moment so it's not as outlandish a notion as you may think!)

[Poor Student]

That article suggests there's a strong chance Shaktar could be eliminated from the CL. As a Celtic fan I feel it's very unlikely that we'll edge past them and I'd say they're in a strong position to get through.


Bob Malcom, now there's a blast from the past. Could barely move but had a decent eye for a pass.

ASR27 and Kingdom Hoop, either of you actually follow UCD's (mis)fortunes?

[Woody]

As far as I know, TSV 1860 Munchen are very much regarded as the left wing team in Munich, Germany. Their fans have a history of labour politics.

[CollegeTillIDie]

As far as I know Universidad De Chile is a campus inhabited by a lot of non-church going Chileans. As such it would be a home for left wing ideological thought. Therefore it is not outside the realms of possibility that this club could have a left wing tinge to it's politics.

[CollegeTillIDie]

ASR27 and Kingdom Hoop, either of you actually follow UCD's (mis)fortunes?

They are the left wing element in our support :D

[Lim till i die]

BUMP!!

I'd just like to point out that Notorious Communist John Reid (Yes, that John Reid) was recently elected President of Celtic Football Club by a staggering 97% of voters.

Well Done Comrades :D :D :rolleyes:

Left wing my left foot

[Not Brazil]

BUMP!!
I'd just like to point out that Notorious Communist John Reid (Yes, that John Reid) was recently elected President of Celtic Football Club by a staggering 97% of voters.

Well Done Comrades


Now, that's funny!

:D

[Junior]

BUMP!!

I'd just like to point out that Notorious Communist John Reid (Yes, that John Reid) was recently elected President of Celtic Football Club by a staggering 97% of voters.

Well Done Comrades :D :D :rolleyes:

Left wing my left foot

I cant be arsed getting in to the Celtic are/are not a left wing club debate. however a few things I would mention.

1) 97% is based on shareholders that voted for, I dont have the stats to hand be I would estimate that 80-90% of that vote was held by Dermot Desmond and Directors who were motioning the appointment, its spin and it would not represent 97% of the fan base which is what this thread is about In my opinion, though some may argue differently.

2) There have been regular visible displays (apbeit not that big) of anti John Reid protests at home and away games since it was announced that he was likely to be apponinted.

3) Celtic Fanzines such as Not The View and TAL with a decent sized readership amongst the support have recently ran editorials in opposition to such an appointment.

EDIT: It was chairman he was appointed not president.

[OldKentRoad]

It is off-piste and it derails the debate from the primary topic, which is football clubs leanings.
Throughout my posts on this topic I have given evidence and backed up my statements while you just reply with genralistations.
Granted you do not accept the political activity of Celtic fans 20 years ago as concrete proof of their leanings but it highlights what end of the political spectrum they lean towards. But it does still remain relevant because clubs like the casuals from Rangers, Airdrie, Hearts etc and there right wing leanings and membership of such organisations as the BNP. Due to this the CSC would never join an international a Scottish firm, and still dont, with casuals from these clubs. You may say its because of Celtics great rivalry with Rangers, but on the casual front the CSC's biggest scalps are always the ASC and the CCS, which are Aberdeen and Hibs respectively. Hibs and Celtic fans always had a left wing leaning while those previously mentioned have a right wing leaning. But then the oddity in Scotland is Aberdeen. They ridicule both Celtic and Rangers for there Sectarian nature in there fans. Aberdeen see themselves as distinctively Scottish and embrace everything Scottish.
Now all that is still relevant to today and still applys. If all that does not satisfy you have a look at The Green Brigades banners and displays. One of the most prominant and distinctive is that of their Che Banner with Green Brigade on it. They also have other distinctively left wing banners such as Cuban flags, Palestinian flags etc.
I am not claiming for 1 minute that Celtic is some form of marxist utopia but it certianly identifys itself with the left of centre spectrum. I have given more than enough evidence of their fans political nature, maybe its time you provided some evidence to the contrary instead of worming out of it by claiming its too hard to prove something doesnt exist. Unless you can provide me with facts a debate is pointless.


The CSC? Don't make me laugh. That book yer man O'Kane brought out was one of the best fictional reads since the bible. Even Celtic's scarf/beer monster/christmas tree element hate them! a shower of clowns.

[Lim till i die]

2) There have been regular visible displays of anti John Reid protests at home and away games since it was announced that he was likely to be apponinted.

Why maybe I'm wrong about this whole thing........


(apbeit not that big)

Oh right. Fair Enough. :rolleyes:


EDIT: It was chairman he was appointed not president

My mistake.