Paul McShane

[an_ceannaire]

Are we grossly over rating the lad?

[paul_oshea]

i advised cautious optimism when he first broke onto the scene, he is certainly prone to errors, and his positional sense doesn't make up for his lack of speed. He needs a little more marshaling, but I can see him costing us big time in a match eventually as he is prone to errors etc, a little like a young dunne. Only time will tell I think.

[an_ceannaire]

its his positional sense that kills him, he has absolutely none. I hope he becomes the new Richie Dunne, but I have my doubts. I dunno why he bothers going forward, he has had the chance to score 4 goals in this campaign and not only missed but completely ******** up every one of them. He is a good man under a high ball and he can tackle, but he lets men in behind him, he is not aware of his surroundings and he has very little football in him

[mackannovic]

Are we grossly over rating the lad?

Yes, very much so I think. Thought O'Brien played better in centre-back against Germany and look far more at ease than McShane ever did.

As Raphael Honegstein said on Newstalk a while back:

"Paul McShane: There's so much wrong there"

[eirebhoy]

Look at Andy O'Brien and John O'Shea against Holland. That's two players with very little positional sense and organisational skills and the result is what happens when you put the 2 together. McShane has great positional sense for his age imo. He looks awkward, hurried and panicky a lot of the time but that's just his style of play. I think he's a very good reader of the game.

[Ozymandias]

Look at Andy O'Brien and John O'Shea against Holland. That's two players with very little positional sense and organisational skills and the result is what happens when you put the 2 together. McShane has great positional sense for his age imo. He looks awkward, hurried and panicky a lot of the time but that's just his style of play. I think he's a very good reader of the game.

i agree...we seem to forget how young he is...

[lionelhutz]

Sometimes he reminds of a dog chasing a frisby, but then other times he wins the ball like kevin moran in his prime.

He is still young and will improve - just depends on whether he can improve his reading of the game which is very questionable at the moment - as was shown by the cypriots goal.

The fact that the hapless o'shea was longside him last nite certainly didnt help him. I think himself and Dunne make an excellent partnership cause Dunne can read the game very well and direct McShane

[DaveyCakes]

He's hopeless. The end.

[an_ceannaire]

its a fair point about his age, and Rich Dunne wasnt the greatest centre half in the world back then either!
But McShane just seems to panic and get into dreadful positions too often...work in progress for sure......the brilliant premiership defender some would have u believe.....no....not yet anyways

[eirebhoy]

This thread is going into my bookmarks and I'll drag it up in a few years time. :)

Look at England's next big thing, Micah Richards. Put him beside John O'Shea and see how impressive he looks.

Richards:
"I am still young and I am still learning. I know I have a tendency to chase people all over the place sometimes but that is where Richard Dunne has been such a big help to me. He is always moving me into the right positions."

I'm really surprised how opinions on McShane have changed. The vast majority of centre halves of his age need to be led. At premiership/international level 99% of 21 year old centre halves need to be led. I actually don't think McShane requires an organiser beside him all that much. Unlike Phil Babb, McShane is learning a lot with every game.

I'm delighted to have Dunne and McShane as our centre backs.

[Ozymandias]

i hear ya eirebhoy and will do the same

[mackannovic]

I never really saw it myself and still can't.

[Ordinary Fan]

He is still work in progress. Not playing centre-back for his club will not help but he was in the same position at WBA.
Some people blew him up to much after the Czech game, see how his does over the next 12 months for his club will tell which way he will develop.

Whatever about his size, pace and positional sense, you gotta love his passion.

[McShels]

He does remind me of Dunne a few years ago, talented but still raw is how I would put it.

Although I wouldnt like to see McShane and Dunne be our CH pairing as neither have enough pace for international football IMO.

[drinkfeckarse]

The praise lavished on him after the Czech game got out of hand. He isn't the worst defender but he has a lot to work on like most young defenders. He has potential but has a long way to go yet. I would still think that he can be an important player for us in years to come.

[eirebhoy]

He does remind me of Dunne a few years ago, talented but still raw is how I would put it.

Although I wouldnt like to see McShane and Dunne be our CH pairing as neither have enough pace for international football IMO.
Dunne now is one of the top 10 centre halves in the premiership. When he was 21 he needed an experienced head beside him. I don't necessarily think McShane does but he'll obviously look a lot better beside one.

[paul_oshea]

EB, book them along with those ones where you said we would beat germany at home and cyprus and mcgeady and all those other ones about kerr too and how great israel are etc.....

I never changed my opinion on McShane I have always said the same about him.

[SunderlandBohs]

I said this at the start of the season when he signed for us. The lad looks a little raw & needs an experience head beside him in defence (like Richard Dunne). He's only 22 so give him time.

[jbyrne]

the whole lack of shape and consistency that has been a constant throughout this campaign wont have helped him one bit. rule no. 1 in football is to get your back four sorted.... we were forced into one change (and a big one at that) due to dunnes suspension yet despite that big enough disruption to our back four stan adds to it by making 3 changes to the back 4 from last sat!!

[John83]

Sometimes he reminds of a dog chasing a frisby, but then other times he wins the ball like kevin moran in his prime.

He is still young and will improve - just depends on whether he can improve his reading of the game which is very questionable at the moment - as was shown by the cypriots goal.

The fact that the hapless o'shea was longside him last nite certainly didnt help him. I think himself and Dunne make an excellent partnership cause Dunne can read the game very well and direct McShane
I agree. O'Shea was far quieter than him last night - less errors, but less tackles, clearances, headers... everything.


I'm really surprised how opinions on McShane have changed. The vast majority of centre halves of his age need to be led. At premiership/international level 99% of 21 year old centre halves need to be led. I actually don't think McShane requires an organiser beside him all that much. Unlike Phil Babb, McShane is learning a lot with every game.

I'm delighted to have Dunne and McShane as our centre backs.
I agree entirely. McShane is leading the line for Sunderland - there's no better reader of the game in their squad (which says a lot about their squad), and he's making do every week. He's far better than I recall Dunne at that age, but it's hard to make the comparison - Dunne was a bit of a waster at his age.


He is still work in progress. Not playing centre-back for his club will not help but he was in the same position at WBA.
Some people blew him up to much after the Czech game, see how his does over the next 12 months for his club will tell which way he will develop.

Whatever about his size, pace and positional sense, you gotta love his passion.
He is playing centre-half for his club.

And yes, I love the passion.

[Dr. Ogba]

That's the thing, I think McShane will prove to be a great player eventually because of his attitude....he seems like the sort of lad that may well be aware of his limitations but is more than willing to address those limitations and improve himself, whereas someone like O'Shea has the "couldn't be arsed" vibe about him...

I'd wait until he's matured a bit more until I'd make a definitive judgement. There's no substitute for experience as a Centre-half...

[cudsy1]

mcshane's emergence in the czech game was (for me anyways) a little surprising and very encouraging. I think we should be counting our lucky stars that a young defender of such raw dynamism and passion for the game has emerged in this pitiful campaign. Comparisons with John O' Pie just says it all for me...thank god for paulie

[EAFC_rdfl]

Darren O'Dea, thats your man along side Dunne, no probs

[eirebhoy]

I'd swap O'Dea (or any Celtic defender) for McShane in a flash.

[an_ceannaire]

EireBhoy
Do u mean u would take McShane over any of them, or any of them over McShane?

[eirebhoy]

EireBhoy
Do u mean u would take McShane over any of them, or any of them over McShane?
Sorry, I'd rather McShane at Celtic over any one of the defenders there atm. I still haven't a clue whether O'Dea's going to make it. I can't make up my mind on him.

[an_ceannaire]

i wouldnt be swapping Caldwell or McManus for him!

[citizenerased]

McShane is good but abit headless at times...

[the doc]

McShane is a poor player, lacks technical ability, lacks pace, poor distribution, poor positioning as the goal last night showed when he lost his man and to cap all that he is a bit of a hot head too, so will always be liable to get sent off.
But if thats the type of player Ireland continue to pick,then we can look forward to even more failures in the World cup and Euro qualifying campaigns.

God help us if he's the best we have got, which I don't think for a minute he is!

[paul_oshea]

McShane is a poor player, lacks technical ability, lacks pace, poor distribution, poor positioning as the goal last night showed when he lost his man and to cap all that he is a bit of a hot head too, so will always be liable to get sent off.
But if thats the type of player Ireland continue to pick,then we can look forward to even more failures in the World cup and Euro qualifying campaigns.

He had fault for that goal, the slovakia one, and teh czech one, i still think he had a big part to play in that goal, granted oshea made the initial mistake. However I do think you have gone a little OTT here. he is not that bad

[eirebhoy]

Really? :eek:

First of all, the Czech goal, I still haven't had anyone convince me that he could have done anything to stop that goal. The only thing he could have really done to stop it was get the ball off Koller, sounds easy...

Slovakia and last nights goal. When someone scores a header does there have to be someone on the opposition directly at fault for the goal? I don't think so. Putting the blame on McShane for those 2 goals is extremely harsh. It was a defender that scored for Cyprus last night. All 4 Irish defenders were equally to blame.

McShane was closest to the goalscorer for the 3 goals, it doesn't mean he's at fault for the 3 goals.

[shelbourne1904]

the whole lack of shape and consistency that has been a constant throughout this campaign wont have helped him one bit. rule no. 1 in football is to get your back four sorted.... we were forced into one change (and a big one at that) due to dunnes suspension yet despite that big enough disruption to our back four stan adds to it by making 3 changes to the back 4 from last sat!!

Best comment of the lot.Proves once again Stan is not cut out for this.He makes a brave but neccessary decision last saturday to play O Brien at Centre Half.OBrien does really well and what happens next he gets moved into midfield increasing the number of changes in the back four and taking another unneccessary gamble which turns out to be a disaster.
Was Stephen Kelly any worse on Saturday to his other performances? Was he that "worse" to bring Kevin Kilbane in there???

On McShane.Having come through the CR game against the giant quite well, except .... repeat except .....the one on one with Koeller where he was that bit too far off the man and too slow for the goal,serious questions should have been asked about that incident and now seem to be coming to light.

Finally someone ask Roy Keane did Liam Miller really come on at half time last night or was it a ghost and more importantly was it a Cork ghost??

[paul_oshea]

I meant the san marino goal actually not slovakia. sorry. BUt yes he could certainly have made the angle a lot more difficult for koller and pushed him out further instead he stayed off him and let him keep running, a defenders job in that instance is to always keep goal side and push the striker out and he didnt, but that could be put down to experience. I don't need to explain the other ones in fairness, but just because he didn't fall over or mis-hit the ball to an opposing player that scored doesnt mean he isn't responsible for a goal.

[paul_oshea]

Best comment of the lot.Proves once again Stan is not cut out for this.He makes a brave but neccessary decision last saturday to play O Brien at Centre Half.OBrien does really well and what happens next he gets moved into midfield increasing the number of changes in the back four and taking another unneccessary gamble which turns out to be a disaster.
Was Stephen Kelly any worse on Saturday to his other performances? Was he that "worse" to bring Kevin Kilbane in there???

On McShane.Having come through the CR game against the giant quite well, except .... repeat except .....the one on one with Koeller where he was that bit too far off the man and too slow for the goal,serious questions should have been asked about that incident and now seem to be coming to light.

Finally someone ask Roy Keane did Liam Miller really come on at half time last night or was it a ghost and more importantly was it a Cork ghost??

No its, not dunne was gone mcshane was back. You couldnt play mcshane and obrien together in defence, he did right here, even if oshea is crap he has more experience and should be using it. He was forced into at least 2 changes in that area and 3 would have been the correct ones in my opinion.

[tetsujin1979]

Has everyone forgotten McShane won MOTM in the Czech game, which was his debut?
He was thrown in at the deep end after the debacle 5-2 loss away to Cyprus, against one of the most prolific scorers in International Football in Koller, and he had John O'Shea beside him, and he won MOTM. He's still young and learning his trade. Traditionally defenders don't hit their peak until their late 20's. Let's not forget, at the same age John Terry was getting arrested outside nightclubs, now he's the captain of his country.
McShane seems to be well grounded and willing to learn, and willing to make sacrifices to learn (take note John O'Shea), and there's no way I'm going to condemn him when more experienced players are getting away with some of the dreck we've had to watch over the last year. Defenders and goalkeepers take more of the flak because it's easy to point to goals conceded as mistakes.

[Closed Account 2]

He's young, I think he'll come good after a full season with Sunderland in the Premier League. He's being tested against a lot of fast attackers week in week out, he'll come good in the end. I think as long as a more senior player is beside him at center back or even in defensive midfield he would be ok for us now.

Put it this way, had Dunne or Carsley been playing last night I think McShane would have had a far better game.

[Maroon 7]

I read the best description I have ever seen of McShane today when I read the following.



The fact that he hares around like he's got a nest of wasps stuck down his underpants only makes it more blindingly obvious how inept he is.


:D

In fairness I wouldn't call him inept but certainly his frantic playing style is unusual for a centre-half.

[eirebhoy]

I read the best description I have ever seen of McShane today
Where did that come from?

[backstothewall]

I don't rate him and would much prefer Andy O'Brien in the side. The errors that came last night were a matter or when, not if. He may have a future, but not at centre back. Even if he got faster, more composed, and learned to read the game better, he would still be to short.

[John83]

I don't rate him and would much prefer Andy O'Brien in the side. The errors that came last night were a matter or when, not if. He may have a future, but not at centre back. Even if he got faster, more composed, and learned to read the game better, he would still be to short.
Paul McShane: 6' 0".
Fabio Cannavaro: 5' 9 1⁄2"

[backstothewall]

Yea, but hes been FIFA world player of the year, and won the world cup. Paul McShane hasn't. Nor will he

You can play at centre back under 6'0, but you can drive a car with your feet, doesn't make it a good idea. Hans Segers was 5'11 and did well in goal, doesn't mean its to be recommended.

[eirebhoy]

I think his performances against Koller and Berbatov show that his height won't be a problem. It's the small, speedy players that'll trouble him.

[danonion]

McShane was beaten for pace by Koller, forget height. He is not premier league standard, nor will he be.

[irishfan86]

Paul McShane: 6' 0".
Fabio Cannavaro: 5' 9 1⁄2"

Was just about to bring up Cannavaro.

Height is a key attribute for a centre-half, but not necessarily an essential one if you can jump well and you've got good timing.

McShane is a good player now and will only get better.

There are real, legitimate problems with the Irish setup right now, but McShane isn't one of them.

[paul_oshea]

kingdom, why quote it then?!

[irishfan86]

I honestly don't see how the site would be in trouble for the opinion of one of its members.

If that's legally the case, we're getting into some very sketchy big brother ****...

[Ozymandias]

[QUOTE=backtowalsall;794812] but you can drive a car with your feet, doesn't make it a good idea. QUOTE]

please tell me that it is a modified car...otherwise you are only boasting as to how you would reach the accelerator and clutch;)

[Kingdom]

kingdom, why quote it then?!

my bad.

[John83]

I honestly don't see how the site would be in trouble for the opinion of one of its members.

If that's legally the case, we're getting into some very sketchy big brother ****...
It sucks, but that seems to be the way the law works in this country - Dahamsta responsible as the 'publisher'. IANAL though.

I'm going to report your post - no malice intended, but Dahamsta and his mods have to decide whether or not to leave that be.

[Kingdom]

It sucks, but that seems to be the way the law works in this country - Dahamsta responsible as the 'publisher'. IANAL though.

I'm going to report your post - no malice intended, but Dahamsta and his mods have to decide whether or not to leave that be.

I've already done it. Same for me it doesn't bother me if its true or not, but it will bother me if the forum is pursued/censored! I couldn't survive work without this site!