Ireland's Next Holding Midfielder

[viagogo]

With Lee Carsley moving on at the end of this campaign (hopefully) who would take his place? They (Stan & Bobby, but heres hoping it will be someone or anybody else) will probably be looking to Steven Reid to fill this gap but with his injury record over the last year it cant be guaranteed that he will be ready. We dont seem to have a lot of options to me.

[Stuttgart88]

oh God, that "holding midfielder" description again :)

Very good thread in the World Football section a month or so back debating the meaning of the term. Sorry mate, I just can't describe Steven Reid as "holding". I think a fit Steven Reid would bring a lot to the party however. More Gerrard than Mascherano or even Alonso though, to use a poor analogy.

Step up Owen Garvan. Hopefully Gibson will make an impression at Wolves. One or two others are worth keeping an eye on two but there's no obvious quick fix.

[tricky_colour]

I'm not sure if he is a holding midfielder, he tends to play the back 1 in a 4-1-4-1 system, a system which we dont seem to play, mind you sometimess its difficult to tell which system we are playing when we are being ripped to shreds :D

[stojkovic]

its difficult to tell which system we are playing when we are being ripped to shreds :D

Love it.:)

[Dyl10]

When his team were in attack, Roy Keane defined a holding midfielder

[ofjames]

When his team were in attack, Roy Keane defined a holding midfielder

I dont agree entirely with that. Keano was football's 'mr. everything' (like LT in the NFL), it was only in his latter years that he was restricted to a holding midfield role.

Like at manchester united, ireland will never find one player to replace roy. United have signed two players (carrick and hargo), we'll probably have to find two also

[Billsthoughts]

Holding Midfielder......???????????
we still havent found a replacement Wing Back since Macateer retired....

[eirebhoy]

If they're ever both fit at the same time, Reid and Reid would surely be the best partnership. Andy would be more of a natural in the "holding" role because of his positional sense, decision making and general playmaking abilities. You don't really need to be a great tackler. As long as all midfielders work hard off the ball it should work.

[dr_peepee]

Yeah! but his decision making and positional sense is only good going foward.. Highly suspect defensively. Especially the last 20 minutes of a game!!!

Andy Reid at his most effective would at least need two grafters alonside him. He execelled for Charlton in the period when he was the fifth midfeilder with Kishishev and (i think) Holland.

[geysir]

I'm depressed, it's hopeless.

[elroy]

Holding Midfielder......???????????
we still havent found a replacement Wing Back since Macateer retired....

If you ask me, we havent had a really decent right sided midfielder since Houghton, which is strange, considering how blessed we've been with left sided midfielders.

[Noelys Guitar]

I wasall for Carsely coming back into the team and he played well in the home game against the Czechs. His form for club and country has gone down recently (age, injuries kicking in) and I would have second thoughts about playing him on Saturday. Or again for that matter. We need 2 to 3 very good players to come through quickly in the mold of Houghton Whelan and Sheedy types. We have missed a target man since Quinn and hopefully Keough will come through and become a top player. It can happen very quickly but usually only with a team that is already heading in the right direction.

[viagogo]

Anybody consider Colin Healy, I think if he can prove his fitness then he is our best player in this position.

[cheifo]

Gibson and Garvan with Potter and possibly Joey O Brien are our best options for central midfield for the future IMO.Whether they will have developed enough for next years WC qualifiers I dont know in which case Stephen Reid will hopefully have a successful return from injury.For as long as I can remmeber every decent team has had a good holding midfield player.

[Supreme feet]

Should be interesting how Gibson and Garvan do against England (assuming Givens picks them). If they're as good as we need them to be for the future of the national team, they'll dominate the game. If not...

Anyone for cricket?

[back of the net]

joey o brien - def mid??

[back of the net]

Anybody consider Colin Healy, I think if he can prove his fitness then he is our best player in this position.

??????????????????????????

[shanman2]

??????????????????????????
He is only joking back of the net. You are only joking viagogo arent you?

Joey O' Brien playing his natural position as a def mid is a good option to have but only if bolton move him in there. Me thinks Garry Speed has to retire before we see that.

[citizenerased]

stephen reid has been a vital loss to us over this campaign..he is a quality centre mid...typical stan played him on the right against germany!! ya have to laugh

[John83]

Anyone think Potter's good enough there? I haven't seen him play enough to judge for myself, though I've heard negative noises.

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Jonathan Douglas. He's not great, but he's probably the best defensively minded midfielder we have who has any experience at all.

[SÓC]

Anybody consider Colin Healy, I think if he can prove his fitness then he is our best player in this position.

Ok I'll bite


Joe Gamble is a far better holding midfielder than Healy, although Healy is starting to find his form again.

[Torn-Ado]

Holding Midfielder

The biggest misjustice to a football position.

[Paddy Garcia]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Jonathan Douglas. He's not great, but he's probably the best defensively minded midfielder we have who has any experience at all.

Hopeless at tracking back, was at fault for the last goal against Slovakia.

[eirebhoy]

The biggest misjustice to a football position.
We've had loads of discussions on this site but I always consider a holding midfielder to be one that "holds" back. He sits in front of the defence and his job is to be in the best position possible to receive a pass. I love Pirlo and I regard him as a holding midfielder.

[viagogo]

He is only joking back of the net. You are only joking viagogo arent you?

Joey O' Brien playing his natural position as a def mid is a good option to have but only if bolton move him in there. Me thinks Garry Speed has to retire before we see that.

Well Colin Healy is probably the most unluckiest player to play for Ireland in the last few years. This time next year he will be probably be back playing in England (no doubt Wolves) and I think would be a better option than any player mentioned in this thread.

[John83]

Hopeless at tracking back, was at fault for the last goal against Slovakia.
I'd mainly pegged O'Shea for that one, but possibly correct. He was on the right for that though, not in the middle.

[Kivlehan]

I dont agree entirely with that. Keano was football's 'mr. everything' (like LT in the NFL), it was only in his latter years that he was restricted to a holding midfield role.

Like at manchester united, ireland will never find one player to replace roy. United have signed two players (carrick and hargo), we'll probably have to find two also

I hope you mean Lawrence Taylor by LT in the NFL. I'm trying to talk to my buddies about starting a "There's only one LT" chant at Giants Stadium the next time LaDainian Tomlinson and the Chargers visit. Probably wouldn't go over but it would be sweet.

[rambler14]

Between Steven Reid, Jonathan Douglas and Stephen McPhail in my eyes. It'll probably be reid but will Reid be the same player when he comes back if he comes back?
Also Joey O'Brien.

[eirebhoy]

Andy Reid proved himself to everyone tonight. He's the future of the Ireland team. He's without doubt our nost intelligent player. He's without doubt the most technically gifted player we have. And he's certainly the best player we have, imho.

[rambler14]

Andy Reid proved himself to everyone tonight. He's the future of the Ireland team. He's without doubt our nost intelligent player. He's without doubt the most technically gifted player we have. And he's certainly the best player we have, imho.

Not a holding midfielder though!

[eirebhoy]

Not a holding midfielder though!
Why not? He'll be sitting in front of the back 4 spraying the ball around when he's 30, I've no doubt about that. Why not now? It's the most influential role in a team and we should give it to Reid.

[Closed Account 2]

I'd mainly pegged O'Shea for that one, but possibly correct. He was on the right for that though, not in the middle.


I agree O'Shea was at fault for that one. He was caught between 2 players, and as a defender he should have taken the man.

[mattie]

I'm a Blackburn fan (god love me) and an Ireland fan (god obviosly doesn't love me).. by the way LOI comes first, but what it does mean is I have been intrepidly following the progress of Stevie Reid for a while. Lads this guy has got huge potential. He is a really good player.

His biggest problem is that he needs someone beside him who's gonna do the further up the pitch bit. Reid is comfortable as a stopper who sits behind, plays the ball around and then bursts forward when he sees a gap. That's how I see him, I think that's how i think he sees himself. I don't know how he would fit into the Irish team as it stands but I think if he got a few friendly games first (I know he has played before but not recently) it would help. He's been the kind of player who gets better the more he plays, hence his injury layoff has been even more frustrating!

If Andy Reid were next to him for the next World Cup I would in the words of Sven G.E. be "Wery optimistic"

[carloz]

The future of our midfield is the two Reids, simple as. If the two can remain fit then i would be very excited about the prospect of them

[geysir]

I have been intrepidly following the progress of Stevie Reid for a while. Lads this guy has got huge potential. He is a really good player.
His biggest problem is that he needs someone beside him who's gonna do the further up the pitch bit.
His biggest problem is his injuries, injuries on top of injuries.

[dr_peepee]

Why not? He'll be sitting in front of the back 4 spraying the ball around when he's 30, I've no doubt about that. Why not now? It's the most influential role in a team and we should give it to Reid.

Very talented technically, without a shadow of a doubt. But his limitations are the reason he was supported by 3 hard working midfielders (if you include Keogh) on saturday. He has to be carried. In his 20's his last 20 minutes of a game are a bit of a minefield. Tackles become very Scholes like, and we can't be conceeding those in our own third of the pitch if he's playing deep.

[eirebhoy]

Fair point. Pity we don't have a Gattuso to do the dirty work. :)

[backstothewall]

The two reids in the middle would leave our centre backs horribly exposed. Either Stephen has to go on the right, or Andy has to go on the left. I would prefer the former to be honest, with Carsley or Joey O'Brien in the holding role

[eirebhoy]

The two reids in the middle would leave our centre backs horribly exposed.
It's worth a try. It'd be a similar partnership to Gerrard and Alonso. It's about the positions they hold more than anything. Then again, Benitez clearly doesn't trust that partnership. Actually, it's a lot more reliable than Gerrard-Lampard. That partnership didn't leave the defence exposed, it was just rubbish.

[mattie]

The two reids in the middle would leave our centre backs horribly exposed. Either Stephen has to go on the right, or Andy has to go on the left. I would prefer the former to be honest, with Carsley or Joey O'Brien in the holding role

can't say i'd go along with that.
I think the two would compliment each other.
We need to go back to looking at playing recognised wingers out wide and not trying to fit whoevers in decent form but has competition for another position in there.

[billybunter]

Stan likes Ireland though. I don't see him leaving him on the bench to accomodate two Reids.

its fair enough that Stan likes Ireland, the issue is that Ireland does'nt like Ireland.....

[cheifo]

Lads,filling this key position with a capable player is imo going to be the biggest challenge for our new manager.I know it has being said before but apart from Carsley there is no one else suitable coming through.All of the players mentioned, the two Reids,Miller etc are just not the type of players suited to defensive midfield duties.O Shea I wont even comment on.Even Gibson and Garvan promising as they are, are not in this mould.We are left with Joey O Brien who had a mare against Cyprus but in fairness he was'nt match fit and would need practise playing there for Bolton.At Int level you need a fella whose is playing there regulalry for his club side.Any ideas?

[eirebhoy]

Lads,filling this key position with a capable player is imo going to be the biggest challenge for our new manager.I know it has being said before but apart from Carsley there is no one else suitable coming through.All of the players mentioned, the two Reids,Miller etc are just not the type of players suited to defensive midfield duties.O Shea I wont even comment on.Even Gibson and Garvan promising as they are, are not in this mould.
Are you talking about a steriotypical holding midfielder of the Carsley, Lennon type? If so I think those type of players are becoming rarer and rarer. Managers are playing playmakers more and more in the holding position while the combative players are given more freedom. The only Carsley type holding midfielder I can think of coming through is the lad Alan Power off Forest. Then again, Carsley and Lennon weren't playing the holding role at 19 or 20.

We've a flood of technically gifted midfielders coming through and I'm really excited about that. Anyway, Andy Reid for me. A couple of energetic midfielders in beside him would be nice in some kind of 4-5-1/4-3-3 formation.

[OwlsFan]

4-5-1 :rolleyes: How I hate that formation. It doesn't suit our style of play and gifts possession to the opposition.

[eirebhoy]

Aye Milan, Roma, etc. gift the ball the the opposition regularly. ;)

I'm not talking about the basic 4-5-1 defensive formation.

-------F-------
M--M--M--M--M

I mean 4-5-1 / (slash) 4-3-3

--------Doyle---------
Duff-------------Keane
---???---Reid---Reid---

You could say it might aswell be a 4-4-2 with one of the Reid's playing on the right but I think both Reid's are much better in the centre, Duff could do with a little more freedom and Keane would thrive in that position, starting his runs from deep rather than having to come deep with his back to goal. Doyle proved against Slovakia that he can certainly play the lone role but he's not exactly going to be up there on his own anyway.

[Stuttgart88]

can't say i'd go along with that.
I think the two would compliment each other.
Agree totally. If we had both Reids fit they'd make a great combo - in theory.

[Stuttgart88]

4-5-1 works for me in principle because the biggest problem we face is that our midfield 2 get overrun in most games they play or at best fail to get a grip. Having a core 3 in midfield goes some way to solving this. Didn't we do it at home to Czech Rep (Douglas, Carsley, A. Reid, flanked by Kilbane & Duff and with Keane upfront, supported by A. Reid who had most license to venture forward from midfield)?

Portugal used to use this and played super football, dominating possession at will. However, like us, Portugal didn't have a really reliable goalscorer. Nuno Gomez or Paulita (?) just weren't dependable enough so there's a huge onus on goals from midfield.

Having tactically intelligent players is important if you're to tinker with the shape. I don't think we have them unfortunately.


Anyway, as Billsthoughts, me and a few others here regularly suggest, "holding midfielder" is simply a trendy term that is misused by most and means little of substance anyway. Football is about passing, running with the ball and tackling. As long as your two central midfielders can do enough of this between them that's what counts in my opinion.

[gustavo]

Aye Milan, Roma, etc. gift the ball the the opposition regularly. ;)

I'm not talking about the basic 4-5-1 defensive formation.

-------F-------
M--M--M--M--M

I mean 4-5-1 / (slash) 4-3-3

--------Doyle---------
Duff-------------Keane
---???---Reid---Reid---

You could say it might aswell be a 4-4-2 with one of the Reid's playing on the right but I think both Reid's are much better in the centre, Duff could do with a little more freedom and Keane would thrive in that position, starting his runs from deep rather than having to come deep with his back to goal. Doyle proved against Slovakia that he can certainly play the lone role but he's not exactly going to be up there on his own anyway.

Looks similar to the Barcelona formation there , so you could say we are looking for a Deco / Iniesta type there really

[eirebhoy]

Doyle = E'to
Duff = Messi
Keane = Ronaldinho
Andy Reid = Iniesta
Steven Reid = Xavi / Deco
Carsley = Yaya Toure

Looks about right to me but Andy Reid would be more of the playmaker (Xavi) with Steven Reid the box to box (Iniesta). Barca are just a few classes above us in every department. :)

I've seen a bit of Everton recently and they're playing some beautiful football. Carsley holding midfield with Arteta, Cahill, Osman and Pienaar supporting Yakubu. That's a bit more our level.

I'm all for playing Carsley as long as there's a couple of gifted midfielders ahead of him. He's not really suited to a 4-4-2.

[dr_peepee]

Aye Milan, Roma, etc. gift the ball the the opposition regularly. ;)

I'm not talking about the basic 4-5-1 defensive formation.

-------F-------
M--M--M--M--M

I mean 4-5-1 / (slash) 4-3-3

--------Doyle---------
Duff-------------Keane
---???---Reid---Reid---

You could say it might aswell be a 4-4-2 with one of the Reid's playing on the right but I think both Reid's are much better in the centre, Duff could do with a little more freedom and Keane would thrive in that position, starting his runs from deep rather than having to come deep with his back to goal. Doyle proved against Slovakia that he can certainly play the lone role but he's not exactly going to be up there on his own anyway.

Agreed.. But it also offers something in terms of absorbing absences and suspensions. Ireland can come in for A. Reid, McGeady for Duff or Keane etc