Scottish football

[Fingal hoop]

what a great week for scottish football
same population,same style as us- only difference is their football fans follow their own teams & go to their games

the barstoolers are missing out on so much

[Dave77]

wouldnt really agree, worked in Dunfermline and most people supported the old firm,glasgow being 100miles away!mind you at least they support scottish teams.

[Fingal hoop]

that happens in most countries with the likes of Juventus Ajax Bayern Munich Manchester

For Aberdeen to qualify its a great result for scottish football- finally puts the idea that are crap league is as good as theirs & it shows what peopel supporting their own teams can achieve

[superfrank]

My sister lives in Aberdeen and she's said that a lot of the jerseys you see around the town are Old Firm ones. They do get big attendances for the SPL (upwards of 10k, AFAIK) but the city has a population of about 300k.

[Fingal hoop]

13,000 is the average

[ciaraa]

what a great week for scottish football
same population,same style as us- only difference is their football fans follow their own teams & go to their games

the barstoolers are missing out on so much

Scottish football is muck. 2 clubs dominating a mickey mouse league. Most boring predictable league in the world. Biggest 2 teams dont even claim to be scottish anyway. Celtic are full of idiots with tricolours pretending to have some magical mystical relationship with Ireland and rangers are full of union jack waving UK lovers.
The Welsh league has far more credibility then those jokers up there.

[Fingal hoop]

Scottish football is muck. 2 clubs dominating a mickey mouse league. Most boring predictable league in the world. Biggest 2 teams dont even claim to be scottish anyway. Celtic are full of idiots with tricolours pretending to have some magical mystical relationship with Ireland and rangers are full of union jack waving UK lovers.
The Welsh league has far more credibility then those jokers up there.

Haha - The three scottish teams that won this week have all won european cups- cant be that bad - Celtic fans are part of the Irish diaspora hence the tricolours, Rangers fans are proud to be British hence the UJs. Aberdeen winning is a great boost to scottish football. Pity that LOI football seems to be going backwards europe wise

[dcfcsteve]

what a great week for scottish football
same population,same style as us- only difference is their football fans follow their own teams & go to their games

the barstoolers are missing out on so much

Firstly - Scotland has a population 25% bigger than the ROI (5m vs 4.1m).

Secondly - Football is by far the biggest spectator sport in Scotland. There isn't any other spectator sport that is popular throughout the whole country. Rugby is very regional to the Borders/Edinburgh/Glasgow, cricket is non existent, shinty gets almost no supporters etc. Therefore - Scotland is in a unique position in this part of the world for being a one-spectator-sport country. In light of that - you'd expect them to be doing a lot better than they actually are !

P.S. Why is this in the Eircom league section ?

[Fingal hoop]

Firstly - Scotland has a population 25% bigger than the ROI (5m vs 4.1m).

Secondly - Football is by far the biggest spectator sport in Scotland. There isn't any other spectator sport that is popular throughout the whole country. Rugby is very regional to the Borders/Edinburgh/Glasgow, cricket is non existent, shinty gets almost no supporters etc. Therefore - Scotland is in a unique position in this part of the world for being a one-spectator-sport country. In light of that - you'd expect them to be doing a lot better than they actually are !

P.S. Why is this in the Eircom league section ?

one has 5 million one has 4 million - similar enough population - Sportswise Scotalnd is similar to most countries- its in the eircom league section as we should be using teams like aberdeen as the benchmark for our clubs

[dcfcsteve]

No your totally wrong steve totally !

Evidence......? :D

[dcfcsteve]

one has 5 million one has 4 million - similar enough population - Sportswise Scotalnd is similar to most countries- its in the eircom league section as we should be using teams like aberdeen as the benchmark for our clubs

The comparison isn't as cut and dry as you're suggesting though FH.

Firstly - a population difference of 20% is statistically significant, but it's merely an aside in this debate.

The key issue is that football is pretty much the only show in town in Scotland - with minor excpetions for small rugby-loving border towns. Conversely in Ireland, domestic football is the 4th most popular spectator sport : behind both GAA codes and rugby (provincial).

Agree that we can emulate the likes of Aberdeen, but the thread began purely as a 'celebration' of the SPL. I'm not sure what learnings we can draw form the SPL though - as we have a very different set-up for domestic football here than they do, there is real competition both in other sports and other football clubs here that they don't face, and Scotland isn't largely a nation of muppets who've only come to the game relatively recently.

[back of the net]

what a great week for scottish football
same population,same style as us- only difference is their football fans follow their own teams & go to their games

the barstoolers are missing out on so much

scotland have one million more ppl


plus the amount of funding they get from the british goverment would be far greater - thus allowing more finance to be pimped into the scottish game including stadiums


so not really getting where your coming from mate

[back of the net]

scotland have one million more ppl


plus the amount of funding they get from the british goverment would be far greater - thus allowing more finance to be pimped into the scottish game including stadiums


so not really getting where your coming from mate

sorry pumped not PIMPED (-:

[Fingal hoop]

scotland have one million more ppl


plus the amount of funding they get from the british goverment would be far greater - thus allowing more finance to be pimped into the scottish game including stadiums


so not really getting where your coming from mate

1 million more in the grand scheme of things isnt that great,Scottish teams beating Italian French & Ukranian teams with massive populations shows what we could achieve with our population. The fact that the government pump money into scottish football (not sure if they do) would be significant as it shows how underfunded we are & what a difference investment would make

[Fingal hoop]

Well said Fingal Hoop, there are some people on this forum who think that the Eircom Premier league is on a par with the SPL which is laughable. A few freak results in Europe against SPL clubs and lower league Scottish sides do no make the Eircom premier better that than the SPL.

one chestnut was that apart from facilities the EPL is on par- the facilities bit is very true- compare St johnstons ground to anythine we have here for example- this weeks results put that to bed- massive result by the donsThe semantics over population is nit picking as well -

[Fingal hoop]

too many people fooling themselves about the realities of life as an eircom league fan

[Ireland4ever]

Your talking absolute muck Fingal hoop.
1. Soccer isnt near to being the most followed sport in ireland, its way behind Football, Hurling,
2. The organisation that runs Soccer in this country is an absolute disgrace and could learn a hell of a lot from the GAA
3. You cant just brush off 1million people and say it cant have an effect.
4. The scottish league has been professional for a long long time and cannot be compared to the irish set-up.

[back of the net]

1 million more in the grand scheme of things isnt that great,Scottish teams beating Italian French & Ukranian teams with massive populations shows what we could achieve with our population. The fact that the government pump money into scottish football (not sure if they do) would be significant as it shows how underfunded we are & what a difference investment would make

i agree wit you - we are underfunded terribly - but we are not going to get the same funding for the eircom league of our goverment as the scots have received from the british gov - hence the development of the game will be better in scotland and thus the spl will be able to flourish at home and abroad

but as you say if we got proper funding - who knows mate

[Fingal hoop]

Your talking absolute muck Fingal hoop.
1. Soccer isnt near to being the most followed sport in ireland, its way behind Football, Hurling, ----- soccer is the most played sport in Ireland & has the most interest
2. The organisation that runs Soccer in this country is an absolute disgrace and could learn a hell of a lot from the GAA ---- SFA not great either



3. You cant just brush off 1million people and say it cant have an effect. --- of course you can -if A french team loses to an italian team is population given as a reason- no



4. The scottish league has been professional for a long long time and cannot be compared to the irish set-up.---- exactly- its something to strive too - Im saying with a similar population & sylte of football what the scots have achieved so can we

[Fingal hoop]

not sure why some people are negative- we should celebrate other small countries doing well especially one so close to us & also so close to the monster that is the epl

[Ireland4ever]

How can you claim that soccer is the most popular and most played sport in ireland?

The amount of GAA stadia around the country dwarfs the amount of soccer ones and shows that football is by far and away the most played sport.

[Fingal hoop]

How can you claim that soccer is the most popular and most played sport in ireland?

The amount of GAA stadia around the country dwarfs the amount of soccer ones and shows that football is by far and away the most played sport.

have a look at the backpage of any newspaper & you will see what is more popular- There are more soccer players than GAA players

[Ireland4ever]

I disagree, when you look around the country every small parish has an under-age gaa set up and a couple of senior teams. The same CANNOT be said about soccer and the FAI.
And even in dublin, you just have to look at the support the dublin football team gets to show how popular it is. Regardless of the opposition you never see an empty seat.

[Stevo Da Gull]

sure football sucks anyway, who cares abou ..... aww no am I on the wrong forum again?

Anyway, we should strive to follow the SPL but there are a lot of stumbling blocks - one obvious one being SPL/ EPL/Championship etc are right beside us = top players leaving, competition for attracting foreign players.
The imprvement of stadia and training faciliteis should be the top priority at the moment and this seems to be happening.
Ireland4ever has a good point too, IMO all EL club's could do with having a set-up from under7 (or whatever the starting age is) upwards.

[Fingal hoop]

I disagree, when you look around the country every small parish has an under-age gaa set up and a couple of senior teams. The same CANNOT be said about soccer and the FAI.
And even in dublin, you just have to look at the support the dublin football team gets to show how popular it is. Regardless of the opposition you never see an empty seat.

80,000 jump on the bandwagon 4 games a year- same as with jacks army-
look how many leagues & teams playing soccer in dublin & compare that to the GAA

[passinginterest]

According to the National Sport Council in the report: Ballpark Figures, A Guide To The Key Facts About Report In Ireland available from http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/

Swimming, Golf and then soccer are the most popular participant sports in this country, soccer well ahead of GAA 9% to 4%.

[dcfcsteve]

Well said Fingal Hoop, there are some people on this forum who think that the Eircom Premier league is on a par with the SPL which is laughable. A few freak results in Europe against SPL clubs and lower league Scottish sides do no make the Eircom premier better that than the SPL.

I'm not Fingal Hoop....! :D

[dcfcsteve]

According to the National Sport Council in the report: Ballpark Figures, A Guide To The Key Facts About Report In Ireland available from http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/

Swimming, Golf and then soccer are the most popular participant sports in this country, soccer well ahead of GAA 9% to 4%.

Irrelevant though.

We're talking about spectator sports. There's a huge difference between someone going out for a swim at the local lesisure centre or a quick round of golf than someone donning a scarf and going to an EL or GAA game.

[pete]

The only spectator sport in Scotland is football. Attendances outside the top half of the SPL not far off eL levels. Attendances are rugby are dire.

[Fingal hoop]

their lowest probably better than our highest

they have the same attendcances for Rugby
L H
Celtic 57,928 59,659
Rangers 49,955 50,488
Hearts 16,937 17,369
Hibernian 14,587 16,747
Aberdeen 12,475 20,045
Dundee United 7,147 12,329
Kilmarnock 6,807 13,506
Dunfermline Athletic 6,106 8,561
Motherwell 5,877 11,745
St Mirren 5,609 10,251
Falkirk 5,387 7,245
Inverness CT 4,879 7,522

[Fingal hoop]

All figures in for the first weekend - averages as follows (2005 in brackets).

PREMIER DIVISION
Bohs - 2446 (1976)
Bray - 2800 (1550)
Cork - 3800 (3644)
Derry - 2390 (2698)
Drogheda - n/a (1682)
Dublin City - n/a (175)
Longford - n/a (1004)
Pat's - 1700 (1599)
Shels - n/a (1949)
Sligo - n/a (1794)
UCD - n/a (653)
Waterford - n/a (1513)

[gspain]

Football is quite a big spectator sport here. It is also by far the biggest sport in terms of participation. Unfortunately many of those spectators won't be reading thisas I type ebcause 4,000 of them will be on their way to Old Trafford today. Another significant number go to Anfield etc etc.

The Old Firm are an anomaly in Scotland but there is no reason why our clubs can't be as big as Hearts, aberdeen or Hibs etc.

Rugby and GAA may get bigger crowds in this country but there is no way they are bigger sports. Their playing numbers are dwarfed by thos eof football (13% play football in this country next biggest was 8% for GAA according to the recent ESRI study).

However your average football fan in Dublin will watch most of it from a barstool, make the odd trip to Old Trafford or Anfield and watch the Dublin GAA team in the summer. They don't go to domestic football except maybe Shels v Depor. They do of course support the national team.

I know of 7 people going to Old Trafford today in 4 different groups and 2 of them don't even have tickets.

I really think this is an opportunity for our league though and not one to knock the barstoolers. A successful club or 2 here competing in europe.

We do have another advantage in that many of the football fans in this country are fickle. i'm sure everyone knows people who have changed their English club. The Blackburn and Newcastle jerseys are now replaced by Chelsea and maybe soon by Arsenal. I think a successful domestic club would hoover up much of this support. However then we'd be moaning aout all the bandwagon jumpers.

[Sniffer]

Why not start up a team called Dublin something or other, use the sky blue and navy colours, tap into the whole Dubs thing. Make big money from jersey sales, pump it into the club - europe, hoover up fans, it's a no-brainer.;)

PS The Dubs struggle to fill Parnell Park for your average National League fixture. THe tens of thousands who come out with the big yellow thing in the sky are bored EPL fans waiting for their beloved league to resume.

[madblaa]

Scottish football is muck. 2 clubs dominating a mickey mouse league. Most boring predictable league in the world. Biggest 2 teams dont even claim to be scottish anyway. Celtic are full of idiots with tricolours pretending to have some magical mystical relationship with Ireland and rangers are full of union jack waving UK lovers.
The Welsh league has far more credibility then those jokers up there.

Ha ha, well said!

[superfrank]

Why not start up a team called Dublin something or other, use the sky blue and navy colours, tap into the whole Dubs thing. Make big money from jersey sales, pump it into the club - europe, hoover up fans, it's a no-brainer.;)
You try push Rovers, Bohs, Pats, UCD and Shels fans into a stadium together and tell them they're all supporting the same football team?

:rolleyes:

[dcfcsteve]

Wrong Steve ! Do you follow football at all mate ? :confused:


You're wallowihng in your own obscurity now RT. That post just didn't make any sense.

There's a huge difference between participating in a sport and spectating it. Hence - quoting how many people like to swim or play golf is totally irrelevant to a discussion about the appeal of attending live Irish soccer matches versus other live spectator sports. I'm sure that swimming or golf would also be the highest rankiong participatory sports in England and Scotland, but what that would have to do with attendances at live football in those countries I know not.

Do you follow logic at all mate ? :confused:

[dcfcsteve]

they have the same attendcances for Rugby


There are only 2 provincial rugby clubs in Scotland - and even those 2 are struggling to survive as meaningful entities.

And their attendaces on a good day would be about as high as the lowest SPL teams. So rugby and football do not have the same attendnaces in Scoitland - even with phenomenally less clubs in rugby.

Even at a national level rugby in Scoltand is in somewhat of a crisis. I bought a ticket for a Scotland v Ireland match about 4 years ago, and ever since then I get bombarded with offers for discount price tickets to almost every Scotland game at Murrayfield. Unless it's England or sometimes France, they struggle to fill the place and have to turn to hawking thei wares to randoms who once showed an interest in their product years ago.

Scotland is a football nation - first, second and third.

[Fingal hoop]

predictibly enough Hibs beat rangers

[Fingal hoop]

There are only 2 provincial rugby clubs in Scotland - and even those 2 are struggling to survive as meaningful entities.

And their attendaces on a good day would be about as high as the lowest SPL teams. So rugby and football do not have the same attendnaces in Scoitland - even with phenomenally less clubs in rugby.

Even at a national level rugby in Scoltand is in somewhat of a crisis. I bought a ticket for a Scotland v Ireland match about 4 years ago, and ever since then I get bombarded with offers for discount price tickets to almost every Scotland game at Murrayfield. Unless it's England or sometimes France, they struggle to fill the place and have to turn to hawking thei wares to randoms who once showed an interest in their product years ago.

Scotland is a football nation - first, second and third.

rugby has only recently become popular here as the bandwagoners bought into the hype- hopefully it might die down a bit now- the scottish sports fan would be more discerning

[NeilMcD]

Good thread and I agree that Scotland is a good benchmark and a good comparision for us both in the league and the international team It was interesting to hear that more Scottish players were playing Champions League football last week than English players and the English had twice as many teams.

I am not sure what the answer is but its an interesting discussion. Last night there was a good Dublin derby on and I would say there was at most 2,500 at the game.

[bennocelt]

Scottish football is muck. 2 clubs dominating a mickey mouse league. Most boring predictable league in the world. Biggest 2 teams dont even claim to be scottish anyway. Celtic are full of idiots with tricolours pretending to have some magical mystical relationship with Ireland and rangers are full of union jack waving UK lovers.
The Welsh league has far more credibility then those jokers up there.

to be fair..its not really a mystical relationship............brother Wilfrid and all that:rolleyes:

[bennocelt]

I disagree, when you look around the country every small parish has an under-age gaa set up and a couple of senior teams. The same CANNOT be said about soccer and the FAI.
And even in dublin, you just have to look at the support the dublin football team gets to show how popular it is. Regardless of the opposition you never see an empty seat.

ah come off it...........................when the kids have a chance to play a game it will always be football not Ga
i regularly see children playing football even on ga sites

[gspain]

to be fair..its not really a mystical relationship............brother Wilfrid and all that:rolleyes:

His name was actually Brother Walfrid but it was a long time ago. Many foreign clubs were founded by Englishmen yet for some strange reason most English people support an English club.

[gspain]

You're wallowihng in your own obscurity now RT. That post just didn't make any sense.

There's a huge difference between participating in a sport and spectating it. Hence - quoting how many people like to swim or play golf is totally irrelevant to a discussion about the appeal of attending live Irish soccer matches versus other live spectator sports. I'm sure that swimming or golf would also be the highest rankiong participatory sports in England and Scotland, but what that would have to do with attendances at live football in those countries I know not.

Do you follow logic at all mate ? :confused:

but Steve football is the biggest spectator sport in the country anyway. The problem we have though it is British football not our domestic league.

Even take Northenr Ireland as an example. The GAA is by far the biggest local spectator sport. However nobody can claim it is the biggest sport when you consider they exclude 60-65% of the population.

[dcfcsteve]

but Steve football is the biggest spectator sport in the country anyway. The problem we have though it is British football not our domestic league.

How is it Gary ? How many people go from Ireland to England and Scotland to watch football oon a weekly basis - a few thousand maybe ? A couple of full houses in Croke Park would probably contain more than go to watch foreign football across a single season.


Even take Northenr Ireland as an example. The GAA is by far the biggest local spectator sport. However nobody can claim it is the biggest sport when you consider they exclude 60-65% of the population.

This appears to contradict your previous point. If GAA is by far the biggest spectator sport in the north - a traditional soccer area where just over half the population is to varying degrees totally anti the GAA - then it would be doubly or trebly the biggest spectatot sport in the Republic. But you claim that soccer is.

[dcfcsteve]

Just watchingGretna beating Celtic 1-0 :eek: They look to have made major improvments since the night Derry beat them in the UEFA Cup ! Goes to show i suppose what major investment can do.

Gretna are a case study in how not to invest in a club. Mileson has drawn a line under his investment - so their finances are limited, they will be lucky to stay up this season, and their catchment area makes their existence as an SPL club completely unsustainable. Gretna will return to lower division obscurity soon, and they will thankfully remain there ad infinitum.

A pure waste of money on an unsustainable vanity project by a bored millionaire. Hardly an appropriate model for the development of football anywhere.

[Ceirtlis]

Whatever about spectator figures or playing numbers i believe soccer is the sport which generates most interest in this country, be it in english soccer or wherever, so the comparison with scotland is not totally off the wall. However they do have a fully professional league with a long history and also if im not mistaken an almost fully professional division below it, something thats along way off here. Its all well and good saying we could be as good as them but until people start taking an interest in the league and going to games here we are going to stay the way that we are.

[don ramo]

to be fair..its not really a mystical relationship............brother Walfrid and all that:rolleyes:

wow brother walfrid, big whooop, an irish man formed the american navy but yet i dont see thousands flocking to that,
how does anyone campare the leagues, two teams dominate and i mean DOMINATE, the joke that is the SPL, and other teams are trying to catch up thats why you will always have a team close to the top two, they are actually the best team in scotland, as the other two are on an unlevel playing field, two teams with 60,000 seater grounds the next biggest is aberdean with 22,000, sure from stats i have (sky sports) falkirk and gretna have under 6000 capacity grounds,
what is the attraction of it, its professional longer, so they should have something to go on in there history, the problem with the EL is that it isnt saturated in the medie with big explosions, and all this talk of loads of games on RTE was s***e, setanta showed the most now watch RTE take over, i think the FAI should be allowed to sell the rights of the internationl games to whoever they want, but, nwhoever gets it they have to show at least one game a week of the EL, tv isnt free anywhere RTE isnt free so why shouldnt they pay the FAI for the right to show games,

[gspain]

How is it Gary ? How many people go from Ireland to England and Scotland to watch football oon a weekly basis - a few thousand maybe ? A couple of full houses in Croke Park would probably contain more than go to watch foreign football across a single season.



This appears to contradict your previous point. If GAA is by far the biggest spectator sport in the north - a traditional soccer area where just over half the population is to varying degrees totally anti the GAA - then it would be doubly or trebly the biggest spectatot sport in the Republic. But you claim that soccer is.

Agree it is confusing. I was including tv and the barstoolers.

My point really is that football is by far the biggest sport in the Republic. It is the game played by far more people, followed by more people and watched by more people (tv and in person). However this does not translate into support for domestic football. However I see it as a huge opportunity for domestic football. The rise of Sunderland's popularity shows the opportunity too as people adapt and change allegiances which would be unusual in the rest of the world.

GAA is clearly the biggest local spectator sport in the RoI and NI. I don't have the figures for NI but logic would dictate that given the GAA exclude 60%+ of the population that it couldn't be the biggest sport there. Irish League attendances are well behind those of our league so again it's cross channel football that is the attraction

Rugby has seen a huge surge in popularity in the last couple of years. It looks like the England game this year will be the most watched sporting event on tv. This will be the first time ever that rugby has achieved this. it has been a football International for something like 15 of the last 17 years. However there are still huge areas of this island where it has little pentration.

[ciaraa]

to be fair..its not really a mystical relationship............brother Wilfrid and all that:rolleyes:

hmmm, when was this? 1890 or something? Stop living in the past. I'm sure there was some relationship with some Irish guy and Velez Sarsfield back in the day but you dont see busloads of idiots heading to south america every weekend do you?
I must compliment Celtic plc on their fabulous marketing though. Convincing thousands of people to trek from all corners of Ireland to spend their euros at Celtic park wearing the latest replica kit and then drinking in the bars singing mildly sectarian songs with their buddies waving tricolours after watching their heroes beat kilmarnock 1-0. They must make an absolute fortune off these tw@ts.