Change the flag - Yes or No? [Archive]

jebus

04/10/2007, 1:09 PM

I would say yes with a I don't care tag, but because Kevin Myers wrote that I'll say No with a Please shoot him tag*

* Incidentally I didn't read the piece as I can't stand that muppet so I don't know whether he is saying it should or shouldn't be changed, probably he is saying it should because Irish people are pond life, or some other nonsense. Honestly how even a rag like the Indo thinks that Myers 'bad publicity is better than any publicity' approach to journalism is okay is beyond me

John83

04/10/2007, 1:34 PM

Moreover, which one of us can instantly identify the German flag from the Belgian, the Dutch from the Italian, the Luxemburgese from the Portuguese?
Me. Seriously, what kind of retard doesn't recognise the Portuguese flag?

Schumi

04/10/2007, 1:48 PM

what kind of retard doesn't recognise the Portuguese flag?The Azorean Liberation Front?

noby

04/10/2007, 1:55 PM

What a load of crap. "I think we should change our flag because (a) someone else is talking about doing it and (b) it's a boring colour scheme"

First

04/10/2007, 2:01 PM

Just turn it around and you have the Ivory coast flag , which I had to explain to a mate as he headed into a rant about the tri-colour being displayed in the Stanford Bridge crowd.

Torn-Ado

04/10/2007, 2:26 PM

Kevin Myers wrote that.

Enough said.

Torn-Ado

04/10/2007, 2:30 PM

And by the way, I always felt that Ireland has a good flag that is easy on the eye. Nice bright and colours that aren't the very common on other flags (India, Ivory coast apart).

First

04/10/2007, 2:34 PM

I think the skull and cross bones would be an ideal replacement for the tri-colour , can't you just see it flying above the Dail.

Lionel Ritchie

04/10/2007, 3:07 PM

I think he's on a Wind Up here and, while I've no irrational attachment to our flag, I'm not going to take the bait on any of his subjective issues ...just a couple of matter of factual ones...

A flag has to have a strong symbol, or has to consist of at least one strong primary colour: black/red/blue.
Black is not a primary colour.

Moreover, not having a prime colour, it is visually not particularly interesting;
I think he means Primary again here ...I also notice White is good enough for the UJ and S&S but not for us.:confused:

Moreover, which one of us can instantly identify the German flag from the Belgian, the Dutch from the Italian, the Luxemburgese from the Portuguese? A medley of stripes: meaningless.
...anyone who wasn't on the mitch from fourth class Geography can separate any of those and name them instantly I'd say. Would he rather the germans reverted to their previous flag? It had lots of that Primary Red he likes as well as a strong motif in black on white ...both of which he seems to believe are primaries too.

not least because all the best flags in the world, as above, contain it): or a brilliant gold harp on the madder-red hue of the Donnebrog.
Nice logic. No-one from this neck of the woods has ever stumbled differenciating a Morrocan Flag from a Turkish or Albanian one.

Now, since hearts are involved in such matters, it is unlikely that a reasonable discussion could take place on the removal of the tricolour as the national flag of Ireland.

A lynching, perhaps; a rational conversation, hardly. Yet our flag is the least prepossessing and recognisable of any in Europe.

Well he's hardly starting one here then. Though for what it's worth I tend to agree that this country has not reached a point where flags could or indeed should be top of an agenda.

centre mid

04/10/2007, 3:07 PM

The Azorean Liberation Front?

potm :eek:

superfrank

04/10/2007, 4:14 PM

Poruguese flag isn't a tri-colour either.

I like the flag the way it is. I would like to see the harp in the white field but I have no problem whatsoever with the colours and, as he says, not all republicans are accepting of the protestants in this country but I think of it more as a sign that we hould be able to set aside our differences over religious/sectarian issues especially when religion doesn't have such a stranglehold on the country anymore.

Pauro 76

04/10/2007, 5:09 PM

Im ok with the flag. No point changing it just for the sake of it. And Myers would just claim the credit if we did change it. Good reason to stay put so. Off topic, is it true that India chose the colours of the Irish flag for theirs when they became independent from Britain? Not sure where i heard that from..

pineapple stu

04/10/2007, 5:21 PM

No mention of the Indian link on wikipedia anyways.

Article merely proves Kevin Myers is an idiot. Thought he was going to go into something about national unity (even though the tricolour is all-representative), but no, he wants to change 150 years of tradition and history because he doesn't like the colours. Superb. :rolleyes:

strangeirish

04/10/2007, 5:33 PM

Brief mention from Wikipedia under 'Flag of India'

'To address Mahatma Gandhi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi)'s concerns, another new flag was indeed designed. This tricolour featured white on top, green in the centre and red at the bottom, symbolising the minority religions, Muslims and Hindus respectively, with a "Charkha" drawn across all three bands. Parallels were drawn with the fact that it closely resembled the Flag of Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Ireland), symbol of the other major freedom struggle against the British Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empire).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_India#_note-FOTW) This flag was first unfurled at the congress party meeting in Ahmedabad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmedabad). Although this flag was not adopted as the official flag of the Indian National Congress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_National_Congress) party, it was nevertheless widely used during the freedom movement.'

Jerry The Saint

04/10/2007, 7:14 PM

. Parallels were drawn with the fact that it closely resembled the Flag of Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Ireland)

Did you know the real reason for those colours is that Gandhi was a law student in Trinity and taught Socrates how to play football in the Phoenix Park:confused: Pelé was watching from the sidelines and was so impressed he changed his name in honour of the wonderful 'Peile' on display. When he later told his good friend Kaiser Wilhelm he was so touched by the uplifting tale that he ordered the German footballers to adopt a green change strip.

All the above has been confirmed by a high-ranking official within the FAI, as quoted in The Star.

Sligo Hornet

04/10/2007, 7:21 PM

I don't think we need to change or add to our flag.......if we were to put the Harp on it , wouldn't it be seen as just copying the Indian Flag.....and why do they have a "Wagon Wheel" in the middle?;)

Torn-Ado

04/10/2007, 7:25 PM

Did you know the real reason for those colours is that Gandhi was a law student in Trinity and taught Socrates how to play football in the Phoenix Park:confused: Pelé was watching from the sidelines and was so impressed he changed his name in honour of the wonderful 'Peile' on display. When he later told his good friend Kaiser Wilhelm he was so touched by the uplifting tale that he ordered the German footballers to adopt a green change strip.

All the above has been confirmed by a high-ranking official within the FAI, as quoted in The Star.

Duh...

Everyone knows that.

kingdom hoop

04/10/2007, 9:36 PM

The Azorean Liberation Front?

:D Brilliant Schumi!

Noelys Guitar

04/10/2007, 10:08 PM

Macy

05/10/2007, 7:38 AM

I would like to see the harp in the white field but I have no problem whatsoever with the colours
A banana might be more apt though...

especially when religion doesn't have such a stranglehold on the country anymore.
I don't know about that, given that 90% of primary schools are State funded Catholic Church run (with the state going to court to say they don't have a role in their running).

galwayhoop

05/10/2007, 9:45 AM

Brief mention from Wikipedia under 'Flag of India'

'To address Mahatma Gandhi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi)'s concerns, another new flag was indeed designed. This tricolour featured white on top, green in the centre and red at the bottom, symbolising the minority religions, Muslims and Hindus respectively, with a "Charkha" drawn across all three bands. Parallels were drawn with the fact that it closely resembled the Flag of Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Ireland), symbol of the other major freedom struggle against the British Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empire).

how does a flag with horizontal stripes from top to bottom in the order of white, green and red have a simalarity to an irish tri-colour! surely the flag that was adopted of orange, white and green has more similarities!!!!
you gotta love wikipedia

galwayhoop

05/10/2007, 9:55 AM

I don't know about that, given that 90% of primary schools are State funded Catholic Church run (with the state going to court to say they don't have a role in their running).

i think we can say, with certainty, that the catholic church has lost it's stranglehold over the irish state.

regardless how many schools they run the church has no control over the moral conscience of the citizens of ireland anymore. - FACT

Dodge

05/10/2007, 9:57 AM

how does a flag with horizontal stripes from top to bottom in the order of white, green and red have a simalarity to an irish tri-colour! surely the flag that was adopted of orange, white and green has more similarities!!!!
you gotta love wikipedia

In fairness, the quote leaves out a bit. It initially talks about the green, white and orange one. Then mentions the flag symbolising the minority religions, but as we know this wasn't accepted.

The reasons for "our" colours are

Bhagwa or the saffron colour denotes renunciation or disinterestedness. Our leaders must be indifferent to material gains and dedicate themselves to their work. The white in the centre is light, the path of truth to guide our conduct. The green shows our relation to (the) soil, our relation to the plant life here, on which all other life depends

PS Myers is a ****

Macy

05/10/2007, 10:05 AM

regardless how many schools they run the church has no control over the moral conscience of the citizens of ireland anymore. - FACT
Yeah, it can be seen in the way we are so open and transparent on issues like same sex marriage, abortion, father rights etc and why the Taoiseach of this country will seperate but not divorce.

I wouldn't down play the significance of the control of schools, particularly now the church is effectively blackmailing parents into "keeping the faith". (Baptism certs now, how long before a situation where you have to be an active member of the parish, or where whether you've paid your dues is the criteria?). Unfortunately this major break between church and state is unlikely to change while the Minister for Education is apparently a member of Opus Dei.

jebus

05/10/2007, 10:08 AM

Jesus lets not get bogged down with the church and school debate again

noby

05/10/2007, 10:09 AM

Stop mentioning Jesus so.

jebus

05/10/2007, 10:17 AM

Stop mentioning Jesus so.

What am I gonna do? Reference myself?

BohsPartisan

05/10/2007, 10:17 AM

I think it should be changed to an all red flag with a yellow hammer and sickle in the top left corner.

noby

05/10/2007, 10:23 AM

I think we should replace our flag with a brown envelope.

galwayhoop

05/10/2007, 10:29 AM

Yeah, it can be seen in the way we are so open and transparent on issues like same sex marriage, abortion, father rights etc and why the Taoiseach of this country will seperate but not divorce.

i was actually going to put up a longer post where i mentioned that there was no denying that as a country/people we still have the catholic 'guilt complex' (hangover) in relation to the issues set out by yourself above and others. but this is a result of our moral upbringing and the current youngsters will have much less of this 'moral conscience' influenced by the catholic church.

however to say the church has a stranglehold over the counrty is simply not true. to have that the church would need to influence our daily lives and it most certainly does not. do people worry what the church/parish priest thinks of their decisions anymore? definately not.

personally i think the (failed) referendum on divorce in 1986 was a turning point where 36.5% of people went against the churchs wishes and voted in favour of divorce. i know the ammendment failed but the fact it was held in the first place, against church wishes, and that so many went against the churches wishes was monumental imo. you must remember that at the time over 95% of the population was catholic and many more were practising at that time than now.

the subsequent referendums on abortion and divorce were carried by personal preferences as opposed to following the church's directives. if you think of how the church would have us live our lives and how the majority do - contraception, divorce, pre-marital sex, aboration, children outside wedlock, actually going to church on a sunday and not just for a wedding/funeral/christening....etc - then you can't assertain that the church has the stranglehold anymore.

Catholic hangover - Yes
Catholic Values/Controlled - No way

galwayhoop

05/10/2007, 10:31 AM

On Topic -

Did Myers give any suggestion as to what he would have the Flag changed to??? Or did he state why we should change it in the first place???

superfrank

05/10/2007, 10:48 AM

I don't know about that, given that 90% of primary schools are State funded Catholic Church run (with the state going to court to say they don't have a role in their running).
Go to mass on a Sunday and you'll see how many Catholics actually practice their faith. These are real Catholics, anyone else who says they are is insulting the religion.

noby

05/10/2007, 11:02 AM

Macy

05/10/2007, 11:20 AM

Did Myers give any suggestion as to what he would have the Flag changed to???
A red, white and blue criss cross effort I'd imagine...

John83

05/10/2007, 11:23 AM

Go to mass on a Sunday and you'll see how many Catholics actually practice their faith. These are real Catholics, anyone else who says they are is insulting the religion.
I don't know about that. Many of those people are hypocrites who do not live at all according to Catholic doctrine. They go out of habit, for appearance's sake, or to bring their kids up Catholic. There are plenty of far better Catholics who aren't regular mass attendees.

He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'"

Lionel Ritchie

05/10/2007, 12:31 PM

I think we should replace our flag with a brown envelope.

That's a fantastic idea. We could make it kind of like Cyprus' one but instead of a leg of chicken and side salad like on there's we could have a bulging envelope crowned with a winking eye.

Or

make the entire flag "envelope" brown embossed with an enduring image of the Ireland of the new millenium -say a hospitality tent.

kingdom hoop

05/10/2007, 1:40 PM

make the entire flag "envelope" brown embossed with an enduring image of the Ireland of the new millenium -say a hospitality tent.

:D Best colour ever for a flag, envelope brown! Speaking of which, did Myers not recently have some spiel about how we've 'let in' too many immigrants - betcha his inspiration for all his latest socio-betterment notions for our, good but not great, country came while smoking a joint and gazing deeply at a brown envelope;

'oh, that window, so entrancing, almost seems like a chimeric representation of the soul of this fair land, yes, indeed, (sharp intake of air) we may just be onto something here kevie old boy

a shining harp, yes, the all encompassing symbol that binds the nation, a forgotten symbol of yore, but lament, lament, so underutilised, cast aside, needing a rebith for a new generation

ah, isn't that a beautiful primary brown hue enveloping the harp, surely is old pal, oh, oh, oh, you did it you scoundrel, you didn't, yes, yes I have it, the panacea for all the chronic ails of the country, the time has come, unfurl the glistening new flag!

but what else is here, you can't stop these kinetic brainwaves now, aha, look at that daring bold 'private' goading me, stop, stop, yes that's it, stop the, stop the.............immigrants, those yellow-bellied immigrants they daren't desecrate my harp, out, out I say.

(Myers subsequently dozes off into the land of nod, dreaming special dreams, dreams of wondrous elves, leprechauns and pixies, all playing the harp to a familiarly comforting regal melody; All Hail King Myers. A pleasant night for Mr.Myers, until he was rudely awoken by the dustman.

kingdom hoop

05/10/2007, 2:05 PM

:) Argh get outta me head Kev. Despite what I, well really I was in character mode I suppose, have said I actually wouldn't mind a change of flag. I'm big into my flags, it all started back in the days of no internet and a dearth of comics in the neighbourhood so you just had to resort to the international section of the phone book to entertain yourself, all those bright colours and exotic names really grabbed me. I remember the Nepal flag in particular, a curious two-storey triangle! It's not all about colours and symbols Kevin you know! I picked up the Belize (http://www.tofocus.info/images/flags/belize-flag.gif) flag over the summer but lost it on my travels afterwards, great flag it was too. :(

I suppose changing it would be a bit like trying to change our anthem, but personally speaking at least, the anthem means more. It would only be a change for changes sake really, no good reason. What does a flag do anyway only make little boys in faraway lands dream of what the country might hold.

Would a poll be worth lashing up or are people pretty ambivalent about the 'issue'?

Dodge

05/10/2007, 2:09 PM

Would a poll be worth lashing up or are people pretty ambivalent about the 'issue'?

I wouldn't be ambivalent about it, but no point in putting up a poll about a Kevin Myers article.

If a real debate emerges we might but as long as its just that self loathing arsehole...

DIFChick

05/10/2007, 2:54 PM

I think this flag change has been discussed several times before on foot.ie.

Someone suggested we incorporate this http://www.webdesign-guru.co.uk/icon/wp-content/uploads/rain-icon.jpg in the potential new flag.

Sorry, it's Friday, my brain is fried and I couldn't resist...;)

jebus

05/10/2007, 2:56 PM

I'd rather have a poll about whether Myers thinks he's Ireland's answer to either a) Richard Littlejohn or b) Robert Kilroy? Either way I'm sure they'd be top of his invite list to a dream dinner party

rebelarmyexile

08/10/2007, 10:30 PM

How about a return to the Cross of St. Patrick, a flag that neither communities on this island is insulted by.

John83

09/10/2007, 10:12 AM

How about a return to the Cross of St. Patrick, a flag that neither communities on this island is insulted by.
Yeah, we could just cut it out of the Union Jack. ;)

Lionel Ritchie

09/10/2007, 10:33 AM

How about a return to the Cross of St. Patrick, a flag that neither communities on this island is insulted by.

In the modern era it also bears a striking similarity to a piece of road traffic signage.

...and a semaphore code.

RogerMilla

09/10/2007, 12:34 PM

i have a radical suggestion , let's keep our flag. It looks great.

CollegeTillIDie

10/10/2007, 9:13 PM

Myers thinks we have let too many immigrants in? Well he was born in England so perhaps we should have kept him out. On that subject has anyone ever noticed how either foreign born mouthpieces (Myers) or the children of foreigners ( Michael Portillo former Tory MP in England) are among the most vociferous on the subject of immigration in these islands. Why is that?