View Full Version : Jersey Clash - Cork Fined
Sniffer
04/10/2007, 4:52 PM
It's in the rulebook that if the visiting club's two registered colours clash with the home side, then the home side must change. Doesn't mention a fine, but remember the Participation Agreement that every club signed prior to the start of the season states that rule breaks will be dealt with by way of fines, point deducations, etc.
So, basically, if Cork broke the rules they should have known a fine was on the way. If they didn't know this was the rule (re the clash of shirts), well that's something someone at the club will have to answer.
Based upon the assumption that those are the rules, Cork City have gotten off lightly here. Had they worn their away kit there was no problem. What reason other than stubborness could they have for refusing to change? The away kit had all their sponsors and logos on it. Bray arrived in good faith with both sets of approved kit. The ensuing fiasco can't have endeared eL football to their current sponsors and any which they might pursue in the future.
Cork City - riding the EL solid since 2007.:)
Bald Student
04/10/2007, 4:53 PM
Not sure but its not a secret or anything, Seemingly it is. Whether Bohs away clashes with Waterford home depends largely on who you talk to. It's my opinion that such things should be decided long before the day of a match.
TommyGaynor
04/10/2007, 4:53 PM
Can we get proof that this rule is actually in the rulebook?
centre mid
04/10/2007, 4:54 PM
Common sense should have dictated that Bray had an away kit that didn't clash with the home kits of the only two sides they'd need to wear it against
Hold on, Bray or any other club are entitled to have whatever colours they want as a 2nd gear whether or not it clashes or not, Cork (or any club for that matter) have a change gear aswell, Bray shouldnt have had to wear that ridiculous gear with gaffer tap over the sponsor logo.
TommyGaynor
04/10/2007, 4:54 PM
Based upon the assumption that those are the rules, Cork City have gotten off lightly here. Had they worn their away kit there was no problem. What reason other than stubborness could they have for refusing to change? The away kit had all their sponsors and logos on it. Bray arrived in good faith with both sets of approved kit. The ensuing fiasco can't have endeared eL football to their current sponsors and any which they might pursue in the future.
Cork City - riding the EL solid since 2007.:)
But the point is the away shouldn't have been approved as it didn't solve the clashing problems
TommyGaynor
04/10/2007, 4:56 PM
Hold on, Bray or any other club are entitled to have whatever colours they want as a 2nd gear whether or not it clashes or not, Cork (or any club for that matter) have a change gear aswell, Bray shouldnt have had to wear that ridiculous gear with gaffer tap over the sponsor logo.
No they're not entitled to wear whatever colours they want as an away, they're change colours, designed to avert a clash with the home side. Bray's away kit clearly doesn't do this, as Rovers had to wear black at home to Bray earlier in the year as well.
DmanDmythDledge
04/10/2007, 5:00 PM
It's actually a different rule for the FAI Cup believe it or not. The away team can wear their first choice kit and if it clashes, it is the home team which must change to their second choice kit.
That's because the home team has the advantage of playing at home. It's the same in Europe too (or at least was a few years ago).
centre mid
04/10/2007, 5:04 PM
No they're not entitled to wear whatever colours they want as an away, they're change colours, designed to avert a clash with the home side. Bray's away kit clearly doesn't do this, as Rovers had to wear black at home to Bray earlier in the year as well.
Clubs can still pick their own colours, even if they are likely to be the same as another clubs - thats why every club has a change of strip aswell. i.e. Bray brought home and away strip to the cross, ref wasnt happy to let the clash go ahead, Cork shoulf wear their change - happens all the time in Junior football - the owness is on the home team to change
TommyGaynor
04/10/2007, 5:10 PM
Clubs can still pick their own colours, even if they are likely to be the same as another clubs - thats why every club has a change of strip aswell. i.e. Bray brought home and away strip to the cross, ref wasnt happy to let the clash go ahead, Cork shoulf wear their change - happens all the time in Junior football - the owness is on the home team to change
But what if every club was like Bray and their away kit was too similar to the home? If City still had their 2005 away of white jerseys and green shorts what would have happened at Turner's Cross that night? The point is, Bray should not be allowed to have an away kit that fails to avoid the colour clash created by the similarity of the two homes
I tend to agree with Tommy here. Whatever about what happened in Cork, surely there must be something done at the start of the season to ensure a clubs away colours are sufficiently different to their home colours.
pineapple stu
04/10/2007, 5:55 PM
how can it make sense if cork are fined. bray wore cork's away jerseys occording to the article
What a joke of a decision. If any club was to be fined it should have been ourselves.
Its breathtaking really. The FAi are a shambles. and prove it on a weekly basis.
Still it'll buy a few coctails on their jolly up To South Africa
Did any of you actually read the explanation posted before replying?
Can we get proof that this rule is actually in the rulebook?
I think the rulebook is supposed to be on the FAI website now.
Obviously, while it appears Cork were due to be fined under the rules, the FAI should by rights be fined for letting Bray register an away jersey which is so close to their home jersey, but that's not going to happen anytime soon. Also, as Bald Student noted, there's no reason why it can't be decided long in advance which colours clash, and let clubs know about this.
But hey, brand new league...
atfconline
04/10/2007, 6:23 PM
The rules state:
13 Club Colours
13.1 Each Participant Club shall register two sets of colours to be used. All jerseys shall be numbered on the back. Goalkeepers must wear colours, which distinguish them from other players and the match officials. Sponsors advertising on team gear must receive the prior approval of the League Director before each season commences. Rules governing sponsorships and team kit are described in Schedule Three Commercial Rules, which must also be adhered to.
13.2 In the event of two Clubs playing in the same colours, the Away Club shall change colours when such Clubs meet in competition. In the event of there still being a colour clash, the Home Club shall change colours to the referee’s satisfaction. In all cases the referee’s decision on the necessity for any Club to change colours shall be final.
pineapple stu
04/10/2007, 6:26 PM
And Cork's away kit is black and yellow (http://www.colours-of-football.com/colours03/irl/irl05.html), which barring any referee kit or problems telling black from white under floodlights, seals the deal. Cork should have gotten fined under the rules. But Bray still shouldn't have been allowed register such a similar away kit.
What happened when Rovers played in Cork? Their kits are the same. Or when Rovers played Bray? All four of their kits are green and white.
TommyGaynor
04/10/2007, 6:51 PM
Rovers' away is all black, they wore it in Cork and Bray, and as previously mentioned, at home to Bray because Bray's away doesn't solve the clashing problems.
pineapple stu
04/10/2007, 6:54 PM
Oh, OK. Colours of football has it as all white.
Demoshield
04/10/2007, 6:58 PM
The FAI should not have let Rovers & Bray register away kits that were so similar to their home strip. But the referees need to be told cop on also. Cork v Galway, in the second game of the season, Cork wore green& white, Galway wore their white away jersey, Richie Winter & his officials had no problem with that. Galway v Pats in April, Galway wore maroon strip Pats, red & white, again Alan Kelly had no problem with this. Lasf friday Galway had to wear white away strip & Pats their 'Barcelona' away strip. The reason, the ref decided that both Pats strips clashed with Galways home kit. The referee? A certain Mr Alan Kelly who had no problem with a colour clash in April!!!!
TommyGaynor
04/10/2007, 7:13 PM
The refs would never survive in the GAA (http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/3484/clashtt8.jpg)
I tend to agree with Tommy here. Whatever about what happened in Cork, surely there must be something done at the start of the season to ensure a clubs away colours are sufficiently different to their home colours.
Bray's away kit is sufficiently different. Its just that both are similar to corks. Which has very little to do with them.
Pats away kit is COMPLETELY different to home but Galway were made wear their away kit. No big deal. Unless a club is looking to be awkward
TommyGaynor
04/10/2007, 7:21 PM
Bray's away kit is sufficiently different. Its just that both are similar to corks. Which has very little to do with them.
Pats away kit is COMPLETELY different to home but Galway were made wear their away kit. No big deal. Unless a club is looking to be awkward
It's not sufficiently different to the home kits of either of the two clubs they'd need to wear it against!
A face
04/10/2007, 7:24 PM
The FAI should not have let Rovers & Bray register away kits that were so similar to their home strip. But the referees need to be told cop on also. Cork v Galway, in the second game of the season, Cork wore green& white, Galway wore their white away jersey, Richie Winter & his officials had no problem with that. Galway v Pats in April, Galway wore maroon strip Pats, red & white, again Alan Kelly had no problem with this. Lasf friday Galway had to wear white away strip & Pats their 'Barcelona' away strip. The reason, the ref decided that both Pats strips clashed with Galways home kit. The referee? A certain Mr Alan Kelly who had no problem with a colour clash in April!!!!
City might not have changed, but theres more at fault for that.
If at the start of the season you had to pick out clubs that might have these problems, then Rovers and Bray would be two of them for me. To let them register those away kits so similar is madness, and fingers shoe be pointed.
Good administration will avoid this happening ....... Bad administration wont.
TommyGaynor
04/10/2007, 7:26 PM
On the Cork and Galway game that demoshield mentioned, it was actually a small bit confusing, I don't know why Galway didn't wear maroon, as they did a few weeks ago
superfrank
04/10/2007, 9:56 PM
Why? You went to the game with both your kits. It was Cork who refused to budge
Mt problem with it is that, one, the rule is stupid and, two, in the eyes of the ref Bray were the guilty party by not bringing a "sufficient" jersey.
Did any of you actually read the explanation posted before replying?
Yes and I feel the rule is very poor. I'll restate it. The ref clearly saw the jersey situation as Bray's problem : our jersey wasn't up to his very high standards and, whilst I feel he's wrong there, the ref's decision is final and you get on with it.
pineapple stu
04/10/2007, 10:07 PM
The ref was given a workable solution, which he (it appears) tried to invoke - namely, make Cork play in away kit. They refused, they got fined. Bray were being awkward by not having a proper away kit; Cork were breaking the rules by not wearing theirs. There's the difference. The jersey situation was as much Cork's fault as Bray's in the ref's view - not just Bray's fault as you say - and he tried to get them to change too, but they refused.
Bray shouldn't have been allowed register the white away top in the first place, but in the context of this one game and the resulting fine, that's neither here nor there.
Dodge
04/10/2007, 10:13 PM
It's not sufficiently different to the home kits of either of the two clubs they'd need to wear it against!
Or Cork's jersey is too similar to both of Bray's kits. And don't even start on "well they're our club colours", as we've all seen Cork wear white, red and green seperately and together as home colours....
TommyGaynor
05/10/2007, 12:37 AM
Or Cork's jersey is too similar to both of Bray's kits. And don't even start on "well they're our club colours", as we've all seen Cork wear white, red and green seperately and together as home colours....
Regardless of history (though while we're on the subject, within the past ten years Bray have had white, green and striped home jerseys), Cork were the home team and therefore the visitors should have had a kit that would not have resulted in a clash. By the same token I wouldn't expect Cork to travel to Bray and only have kits that would force Bray to change. Bray had this problem away to Rovers too
Bray's away kit is sufficiently different.
I don't tend to agree. Not having a go at Bray here, specifically, but if your home jersey is a combination of two colours (50/50 as opposed to trim), then if one of those two colours is your away jersey, then I don't think they're sufficiently different.
I don't tend to agree.
Foot.ie summed up nicely in one sentence there. :)
The FAI should not have let Rovers & Bray register away kits that were so similar to their home strip.
Eh, our away kit is all black, i fail to see how thats even vaguely similar to green & white hoops, white shorts & white socks!? You'd need some kit to clash with both of those!! :)
Koh
BrayUnknowns
05/10/2007, 8:36 AM
FS, will some of you grow up ! some of the posts in this thread are just childish.
Why all of a sudden is clashing jerseys such a BIG problem this season ? We have had the same home and away gear for the last number of years and not once has there been a problem up until this season. Our home and away jerseys are very different and can be easily distuingished from each other. As i said, why all the fuss this season when in all other season there has not been a problem what so ever.
Also, As the rules state, that if the 2 sets of jeresys clash then the home side must wear there away jersey. These are the ruls, Cork unsportingly refused and were then fined for this. End of.
tiktok
05/10/2007, 10:54 AM
In fairness, Bray brought their two kits down.
The ref decided that both clashed with our home jersey.
The rules are quite clear, we should have worn our away strip.
We didn't.
We deserve the fine.
It's comical though that in the same week Rico gives out about fans causing the club to be fined €100 for lighting a flare, the club themkselves incur a fine ten times as large through their own stupidity/stubborness/superstition.
Whether the rule is daft or not is irrelevant.
Crikey, Tiktok is still with us.
Apparently Blues got a €250 fine, and Bohs got €750 for their 'Jersey incident'
Demoshield
05/10/2007, 11:19 AM
Eh, our away kit is all black, i fail to see how thats even vaguely similar to green & white hoops, white shorts & white socks!? You'd need some kit to clash with both of those!! :)
Koh
Apologies. Didn't know you have a black kit. You did have a white jersey with green trim,green shorts & socks as your change strip?
Apologies. Didn't know you have a black kit. You did have a white jersey with green trim,green shorts & socks as your change strip?
Thats a third strip, which unsuprisingly we've worn a total of once as its of the same two colours as the home strip (ie pointless IMO), we wore it the night we won the FD away to Cobh last season. Everytime there's a hint of a clash we wear the all black strip, to the extent we've had to wear it in all 3 games v Bray this season as both their strips contain green & white.
Koh
Crikey, Tiktok is still with us.'
It is an impostor. He is criticising his own club. :eek:
According to LOI.ie the 3 Bray jerseys are:
1. Green & White
2. White
3. White
A few questions..
Why do Bray have mainly white as their 3 registered jerseys?
Why are 2nd & 3rd jerseys the same colour?
How stupid are Bray?
:rolleyes:
dublinwanderer
05/10/2007, 3:34 PM
It is an impostor. He is criticising his own club. :eek:
According to LOI.ie the 3 Bray jerseys are:
1. Green & White
2. White
3. White
A few questions..
Why do Bray have mainly white as their 3 registered jerseys?
Why are 2nd & 3rd jerseys the same colour?
How stupid are Bray?
:rolleyes:
unfortunitly bray dont have 3 kits. we've 2. if you look at the team poster on the club website you'l see the 2 strips. i am against the white kit. i think we should hav a completly different colour kit. i want a yellow one but i dont think that going to happen!!!:)
BrayUnknowns
05/10/2007, 4:11 PM
It is an impostor. He is criticising his own club. :eek:
According to LOI.ie the 3 Bray jerseys are:
1. Green & White
2. White
3. White
A few questions..
Why do Bray have mainly white as their 3 registered jerseys?
Why are 2nd & 3rd jerseys the same colour?
How stupid are Bray?
:rolleyes:
1. eircomloi.ie is wrong
2. bray have 2 jerseys, a home and an away, no 3rd choice, how many teams have a 3rd choice?
3. we have never had a problem before, why did it only happen this season?
4. cork were in the wrong and rightly fined
5. unsporting behaviour not playing by the rules from cork
6. both are jerseys are quite different IMO, maybe people who have eyesight problems could have problems, but then again refs should not have eye sight problems.
Tiktok is spot on in his post.
And DubWand, a yellow kit? why yellow? when has yellow ever been assoicated with Bray? (in saying that yellow and blue are the Wicklow colours so might not be the worst idea) if anything an all black kit i reckon, would sort all problems out, or a very dark all green jersey.
The away jersey should be a different colour to the home jersey otherwise there is no point to having one! Only GAA teams use the same colours for both sets of jerseys. If Bray feel this logic is too difficult then there needs to be a minimum IQ rule for partaking in the league.
CCFC may have been in the wrong according to the rules but still doesn't not stop Bray from being fools even accepting that the rules don't mention different colour jersey.
pineapple stu
06/10/2007, 10:33 AM
And DubWand, a yellow kit? why yellow? when has yellow ever been assoicated with Bray?
Away jerseys are for having a bit of fun. The UCD colours are saffron and blue, hence our blue kits, but in the past few years, we're had black, white, red, green and yellow as our away colours (http://www.stigonline.com/ucd/jerseys.htm).
Copa Mundial
06/10/2007, 10:49 AM
The FAI should not have let Rovers & Bray register away kits that were so similar to their home strip. But the referees need to be told cop on also. Cork v Galway, in the second game of the season, Cork wore green& white, Galway wore their white away jersey, Richie Winter & his officials had no problem with that. Galway v Pats in April, Galway wore maroon strip Pats, red & white, again Alan Kelly had no problem with this. Lasf friday Galway had to wear white away strip & Pats their 'Barcelona' away strip. The reason, the ref decided that both Pats strips clashed with Galways home kit. The referee? A certain Mr Alan Kelly who had no problem with a colour clash in April!!!!
I think if you go back and look at the colours for the first Galway v Pats game of this season in terryland you will see that galway wore white jerseys and Pats wore red jerseys.
I would imagine that the reason both clubs wore their away kits last week was due to the fact that Pats home and away clashed with Galway Maroon and also due to the new ruling that sleeves on jerseys should be completely different. Galway had white sleeves on their away kit so pats could not wear their red strip with white sleeves. In short, your argument does not stand up due to the fact that your point about the colours in April and September being the same is 'incorrect'.
If i remember the Cork v Galway game earlier in the season, i watched it on TV and imo the kits were too close and should not have been allowed. It was difficult to distinguish on TV.
BrayUnknowns
06/10/2007, 11:17 AM
The away jersey should be a different colour to the home jersey otherwise there is no point to having one! Only GAA teams use the same colours for both sets of jerseys. If Bray feel this logic is too difficult then there needs to be a minimum IQ rule for partaking in the league.
CCFC may have been in the wrong according to the rules but still doesn't not stop Bray from being fools even accepting that the rules don't mention different colour jersey.
IQ? listen Cork knew the rules and broke them, knew they would get find for it, now that's top notch IQ !
We did nothing wrong, brought both sets of jerseys etc. refs problem. I'll keep sayig it there has never been a problem before !
Celdrog
06/10/2007, 11:22 AM
Why do Bray have mainly white as their 3 registered jerseys?
Why are 2nd & 3rd jerseys the same colour?
How stupid are Bray?
:rolleyes:
I'll try and help here Pete
Apparently they only have two kits
Apparently they only have two kits
Apparently not as stupid as a club whose enjoyment of being "Ridden Rock Solid" meant they broke the rules knowing a large fine was on the way.
The fine is way over the top but there must be money to burn on Leeside if your stuborness allows you to refuse to wear your away kit and have the first 67 people's entrance fee that night going straight to the FAI.
sullanefc
06/10/2007, 1:43 PM
Q. What is the point in having an away jersey?
A. If you play a team away from home and your jerseys clash, then you change to the away strip.
At the start of the season a director at Bray must have pondered, when do we have to wear our away shirts this season??
A. Away to Cork City and Shamrock Rovers.
Ah well, he must have thought, we'll wear our white away jerseys at those games. Uh-oh they will clash too. Ah it'll be grand he thought, whats the worst that could happen???
In my eyes Bray are at fault here for not having a proper away jersey and the FAI are at fault for allowing them to register that away jersey.
The "it'll be grand" attitude and lack of foresight is sickening at times.
pineapple stu
06/10/2007, 1:45 PM
In my eyes Bray are at fault here for not having a proper away jersey and the FAI are at fault for allowing them to register that away jersey.
Correct. But there's no point ignoring Cork's role in things. There is a rule to cover the above eventuality, and Cork broke it. Tough.
I'll try and help here Pete
Apparently they only have two kits
Apparently they only have two kits
Apparently not as stupid as a club whose enjoyment of being "Ridden Rock Solid" meant they broke the rules knowing a large fine was on the way.
I can only go on what they is listed on the official league website.
If Cork City & Shamrock Rovers were to use the same logic as Bray & have a white away jersey what would happen when the two teams play???
I am not disputing the fine. The fact remains the Bray away jersey has no value when they forced to change the home jersey due to a clash of colours. They may be called away jerseys but they are really supposed to be change of colours. Every other club in the league understands that logic...
:rolleyes:
Celdrog
06/10/2007, 4:11 PM
The fact remains the Bray away jersey has no value when they forced to change the home jersey due to a clash of colours.
:rolleyes:
Completely agree with that as well
TommyGaynor
08/10/2007, 10:05 AM
I have an article in today's Evening Echo about this incident
Monkfish
24/10/2007, 4:10 PM
Just remembered that the Kilkenny keeper had to wear a Limerick GK jersey when we played them last week, the ref was a Mr R Rodgers of Dublin apparently.
charliesboots
24/10/2007, 5:58 PM
Just noticed this thread now.
I used to look after the kit for Pats and i always rang the ref and the kit man from whoever we were due to play two days before the game. Simple solution.
Despite this I still managed to have an argument with Gerry Perry (:mad:) in Galway about kits clashing. He was a late replacement for John Feighery who had agreed it was best for Pats to wear their home kit. With the players all kitted out as they arrived at the ground Perry (:mad:) wasn't happy and made us change our jersey to the away jersey. At half time he made us change back to the home jersey as the colours he made us change into were clashing with the Galway colours.
Moral of the story - always ring ahead, never change refs at the last minute and Gerry Perry (:mad:) is an idiot!
exiled_gufc_fan
28/10/2007, 12:49 PM
Was Mr Buttimer reffing in Cyprus this week? :D
http://football.guardian.co.uk/breakingnews/feedstory/0,,-7030401,00.html
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