View Full Version : And Then There Were Three - The First Division
Sniffer
03/10/2007, 5:20 PM
First Division fans constantly bemoan the lack of coverage; some thoughts on the season so far here (http://walkthechalk.blogspot.com/)
Refreshing to get some coverage for the First Division and good article but tell me, why do you think Higgsy had a load of money to spend on the Harps squad?
Refreshing to get some coverage for the First Division and good article but tell me, why do you think Higgsy had a load of money to spend on the Harps squad?
Because he spent a load of money on the Harps squad?
Sam_Heggy
04/10/2007, 9:44 AM
Because he spent a load of money on the Harps squad?
Like what? The supporters club paid the fee for John O'Loughlin, a local business man paid for another player and the rest were on free. Why would a club in debt spend loads of money on players?
How is it that so many people outside of Harps know what our finances are?
btid1
04/10/2007, 10:15 AM
Why would a club in debt spend loads of money on players?
That is the eternal EL question which most clubs in the country are guilty of apart from maybe UCD.
Magicme
04/10/2007, 10:42 AM
The day we spend loads of money on players instead of ploughing almost every penny we have into developing our grounds, improving facilities for the whole club & running our 8-9 juvenile teams, mini leagues & women's team, is the day I leave the club.
We dont have any really debts but we dont want to pay big money for players.
btid1
04/10/2007, 10:44 AM
The day we spend loads of money on players instead of ploughing almost every penny we have into developing our grounds, improving facilities for the whole club & running our 8-9 juvenile teams, mini leagues & women's team, is the day I leave the club.
We dont have any really debts but we dont want to pay big money for players.
Fair point Magicme, maybe I should have prefaced that statement by saying that it is far more prevalent in the Premier Div but no exclusive to it either.
bohsmug
04/10/2007, 10:48 AM
Because he spent a load of money on the Harps squad?
Like what? The supporters club paid the fee for John O'Loughlin, a local business man paid for another player and the rest were on free.
I don't think Jebus meant that "Higgsy" spent his own money on the squad.
Sniffer
04/10/2007, 11:24 AM
Refreshing to get some coverage for the First Division and good article but tell me, why do you think Higgsy had a load of money to spend on the Harps squad?
Like what? The supporters club paid the fee for John O'Loughlin, a local business man paid for another player and the rest were on free. Why would a club in debt spend loads of money on players?
How is it that so many people outside of Harps know what our finances are?
While the players mentioned may not have cost the club in terms of fees, the quality of many of the playing staff at Finn Harps does not come cheaply in terms of wages.
Our accounts are handed out all members every year. We have the same weekly wage budget as last year. It is €7,000. If that is a lot of money for the First Division then apologies, yes Higgsy has had a lot of money.
Sniffer
05/10/2007, 11:49 AM
Compared to Cobh's supposed €2,500 per week it is indeed a lot of money.
Sam_Heggy
05/10/2007, 12:11 PM
Compared to Cobh's supposed €2,500 per week it is indeed a lot of money.
If you know so much, what is Dundalks, Athlones, Shels and Limericks wage bills?
What is the lowest budjet in the prem?
What was Shamrock rovers and Galways budjets last season?
Im asking because the fore-mentioned clubs all had promotion in mind when setting their budjets (with the exception of Shels) at the start of the season.
I do find it hard to believe that Cobhs weekly budjet is just €2500. They pay travel, players (even pay per play at 16 players used per week is less than 150 per week expecting every1 else to recieve nothing.), management, advertising, grounds keepers, etc.
A hell of alot of charity work going on in Cobh I doubt.
jebus
05/10/2007, 12:18 PM
Limerick's is 5,000 last time I checked/moaned about the way the season has tailed off.
Further question, why is it that Harps fans are the only ones who get bent out of shape when the subject of wage bills come up? Not trying to start a conspiracy theory, but I think Harps have something to hide, something sinister perhaps
:)
but I think Harps have something to hide, something sinister perhaps
*Laughs in an evil manner*
Watch your back Jebus.
Sam_Heggy
05/10/2007, 12:35 PM
Limerick's is 5,000 last time I checked/moaned about the way the season has tailed off.
Further question, why is it that Harps fans are the only ones who get bent out of shape when the subject of wage bills come up? Not trying to start a conspiracy theory, but I think Harps have something to hide, something sinister perhaps
:)
U calling me bent? :mad:
jebus
05/10/2007, 12:37 PM
Well I've just been told to watch my back up Finn Harps way, so I just assumed that was the norm on match days at Ballybufty
:p
Sam_Heggy
05/10/2007, 12:45 PM
Well I've just been told to watch my back up Finn Harps way, so I just assumed that was the norm on match days at Ballybufty
:p
Full assault on Jebus :p
Anyways back on topic, Harps budjet is a mere €50million a week, we had Shevchenko on trial but we didnt think he was worth it. We currently have a bid in for Kaka and while he wants to sign Milan are holing out for another few quid.
bellavistaman
05/10/2007, 1:05 PM
I do find it hard to believe that Cobhs weekly budjet is just €2500. They pay travel, players (even pay per play at 16 players used per week is less than 150 per week expecting every1 else to recieve nothing.), management, advertising, grounds keepers, etc.
A hell of alot of charity work going on in Cobh I doubt.
It definitly isnt much over that Sam, very small squad, some players who travelled to harps,21's would have only got €40. We have a very very small budget i seriously think 2500 is the budget if it was less would not be surprised. Unfortunatly we really had little or no money start of season one of the lowest.
Further question, why is it that Harps fans are the only ones who get bent out of shape when the subject of wage bills
Because Harps are a club who faithfully do not spend more than they can afford and their fans know that. Last season we had a disasterous return of results v our budget, resulting is terrible crowds and losses looming. We cut the budget and steadied the ship for this year. We went into this year with apparently much the same budget, and to attribute Higgsy's success to splashing silly cash is not doing him or Finn Harps FC justice.
Compared to Cobh's supposed €2,500 per week it is indeed a lot of money.
As I said in another thread, this comparing of educated guesstimates of how your club's wage bill compares to another clubs is bull$hitology of the highest order.
People quote Cobhs as having a bill of €2,500 per week. So as Sam Heggy said, thats about €150 per player, before manager and coaching staff, physio etc. Even if you accept that as realistic - is that GROSS or NETT, concepts most EL fans still struggle to grasp the massive difference between.
Is the €5k per week figure for Limerick gross or net or inclusive of manager and backroom?
People trumpet figures with no idea whether they are comparing like with like.
Harps figues are being quoted as around €7,000 per week and if this is INCLUDING manager, coaching staff, physio AND tax (look it up if you don't understand the term), which I believe it is, it is far from extravagant.
If Cobhs figure is a NETT figure for players wages only then while still very low, its probably at least double that when taken as GROSS and including management.
Harps wage bill, which will be public record come the club's AGM is certainly less than Dundalk's and Shelbourne's (quoted as being set at €10k per week by the developers who bailed them out again preseason) and Athlone's (I heard figures they were offering to players Harps were interested in and we couldn't even come close to competing).
Hence the reaction from Harps fans at the statement about money falling from the sky at Finn Park.
PS: "panglossian" - is Sniffer the Rico of foot.ie???
Sniffer
05/10/2007, 3:19 PM
PS: "panglossian" - is Sniffer the Rico of foot.ie???
Sorry, couldn't resist it. Have to admit I'd never heard of the word until I spotted it in a match report in last week's Sunday Life of all places. I can't cut grass to save my life.:p
Sniffer
05/10/2007, 3:24 PM
As I said in another thread, this comparing of educated guesstimates of how your club's wage bill compares to another clubs is bull$hitology of the highest order.
Not knocking Harps fiscal exercises in any way. They did the right thing last season and it was a big lump to swallow. Yet they were able to bring Gethins back along with the quality of Holmes, Parkhouse, Shields, McLaughlin,O'Loughlin and Divin.
Is the €5k per week figure for Limerick gross or net or inclusive of manager and backroom?
It was being banded about a few weeks ago as our playing budget, hence why so many of us are unhappy with the efforts of the team as of late
Sam_Heggy
05/10/2007, 7:18 PM
Not knocking Harps fiscal exercises in any way. They did the right thing last season and it was a big lump to swallow. Yet they were able to bring Gethins back along with the quality of Holmes, Parkhouse, Shields, McLaughlin,O'Loughlin and Divin.
Gethins was only away on loan, never sold so no need to bring him back.
Holmes was released by Derry and there was no fee involved.
The supporters club paid for O'Loughlin.
Im not sure on McLaughlin, I think his contract was up at 'stute and no fee was involved there (Mr.T should know this one)
We did pay fee's for Divin, Parky and Sheilds AFAIK but they were not substansial.
depor
05/10/2007, 10:42 PM
Like what? The supporters club paid the fee for John O'Loughlin, a local business man paid for another player and the rest were on free. Why would a club in debt spend loads of money on players?
How is it that so many people outside of Harps know what our finances are?
harps have speent a lot of money, according to harps fans they are paying gethins 1500 a week. this year our usual small budget was cut further, and we'd pay our whole sqaud with that amount of money. so they have spent.
depor
05/10/2007, 10:59 PM
[/QUOTE] What was Shamrock rovers and Galways budjets last season?
Im asking because the fore-mentioned clubs all had promotion in mind when setting their budjets (with the exception of Shels) at the start of the season.
I do find it hard to believe that Cobhs weekly budjet is just €2500. They pay travel, players (even pay per play at 16 players used per week is less than 150 per week expecting every1 else to recieve nothing.), management, advertising, grounds keepers, etc.
A hell of alot of charity work going on in Cobh I doubt.[/QUOTE]
our budget is very low, in fact its a third of lasts years. to be honest i think its even less than 2500, the advertising is done for free or very cheaply, the players are being payed according to goals, clean sheets and i think assists. the groundsmen are FAS workers so they cost the cclub nothing or very little.
we had to cut the budget as it was getting out of hand, which has obvious consequences. :rolleyes:
i dont really get the last line of your post, like any club, the budget comes from gate takings, matchday and programme sponsors, pitchside sign sponsors, main sponsor and clubhouse/bar takings. its buisness, not charity, i dont know what u mean by charity:confused:. well the supporters club has provided a lot of money for the club over the years.
Sam_Heggy
06/10/2007, 1:08 AM
harps have speent a lot of money, according to harps fans they are paying gethins 1500 a week. this year our usual small budget was cut further, and we'd pay our whole sqaud with that amount of money. so they have spent.
Very generous fans as the board would never pay that kind of money.
Has anyone got proof to back up these allegations? We are not on the defensive, but we do believe people are trying to make out that Harps are trying to buy the league or something :rolleyes:
Sam_Heggy
06/10/2007, 1:11 AM
What was Shamrock rovers and Galways budjets last season?
Im asking because the fore-mentioned clubs all had promotion in mind when setting their budjets (with the exception of Shels) at the start of the season.
I do find it hard to believe that Cobhs weekly budjet is just €2500. They pay travel, players (even pay per play at 16 players used per week is less than 150 per week expecting every1 else to recieve nothing.), management, advertising, grounds keepers, etc.
A hell of alot of charity work going on in Cobh I doubt.[/QUOTE]
our budget is very low, in fact its a third of lasts years. to be honest i think its even less than 2500, the advertising is done for free or very cheaply, the players are being payed according to goals, clean sheets and i think assists. the groundsmen are FAS workers so they cost the cclub nothing or very little.
we had to cut the budget as it was getting out of hand, which has obvious consequences. :rolleyes:
i dont really get the last line of your post, like any club, the budget comes from gate takings, matchday and programme sponsors, pitchside sign sponsors, main sponsor and clubhouse/bar takings. its buisness, not charity, i dont know what u mean by charity:confused:. well the supporters club has provided a lot of money for the club over the years.[/QUOTE]
Wexfords budget must be on a par with Cobhs then so. No club can travel all over the country, pay players, a manager, physio, trainer, etc, all for only 2500 per week, thats unbelievable, but if true, well done.
Sniffer
06/10/2007, 11:13 AM
Gethins was only away on loan, never sold so no need to bring him back.
Holmes was released by Derry and there was no fee involved.
The supporters club paid for O'Loughlin.
Im not sure on McLaughlin, I think his contract was up at 'stute and no fee was involved there (Mr.T should know this one)
We did pay fee's for Divin, Parky and Sheilds AFAIK but they were not substansial.
I know all of this; but you could afford to bring Gethins back onto the payroll; and the players listed all get paid don't they? I am not suggesting that Harps are trying to buy the league. Higgsy has used the budget available to
him wisely. I did also mention that he plucked some decent players from Derry City's reserves/21's.
according to harps fans they are paying gethins 1500 a week.
LOL :D:D:D
harps1954
08/10/2007, 2:10 PM
according to harps fans they are paying gethins 1500 a week
I can guarantee that Harps aren't paying Gethins anywhere near half of the figure you quoted.
harps1954
08/10/2007, 2:14 PM
A Cobh fan was telling me in Finn Park the other week that Graham Cummins gets €2,400 per week. Everyone else gets a bag of crisps and a can of coke.
Sam_Heggy
08/10/2007, 2:32 PM
A Cobh fan was telling me in Finn Park the other week that Graham Cummins gets €2,400 per week. Everyone else gets a bag of crisps and a can of coke.
Nah most of them get a bag of crisps, the can of coke is for bonuses.
dundalksarge
10/10/2007, 2:39 AM
I have no doubt that Dundalk's wage budget must be one of the largest in the division , there is no point in actually trying to hide that. i just hope come the end of the season we see a return for our money.
Anyway back to football matters, Dundalk 1 Mons 0 Final Score from tonight.
We move into second and only 1 pt behind Finn Harps, well for tonight anyway........but you never know how the other two will go this w/e - both expected to win, but will they ?
Sam_Heggy
11/10/2007, 9:07 PM
Anyway back to football matters, Dundalk 1 Mons 0 Final Score from tonight.
We move into second and only 1 pt behind Finn Harps, well for tonight anyway........but you never know how the other two will go this w/e - both expected to win, but will they ?
Feckin Mons rolling over and lettin ye win :rolleyes::p
This Div will go all the way imo.
Feckin Mons rolling over and lettin ye win :rolleyes::p
This Div will go all the way imo.
LOL :) Come on Limerick!!!
marty
11/10/2007, 10:25 PM
Dundalk must be credited the seemed out of it not so long ago the win 2nite will no doubt boost the confidence for their expected final push,i reacon harps/cobh will pick up points the wknd and that next wks fixtures will once again tinker with the table it must be the best finish to a season in years for all involved pity its coming to an end.
The Rebel Ram
12/10/2007, 4:00 AM
Dundalk must be credited the seemed out of it not so long ago the win 2nite will no doubt boost the confidence for their expected final push,i reacon harps/cobh will pick up points the wknd and that next wks fixtures will once again tinker with the table it must be the best finish to a season in years for all involved pity its coming to an end.
Deff best season in years, best season in decades for Rams imo.
Huge game next week for 2nd and 3rd. It was in injury time before Rams beat Dundalk in same fix earlier that started the temporary demise of Dundalk, hopefully the same this time!:D
I can't see Harps loosing it though, they have put together an unbelieveable run.
The Rams aren't gonna leave em win it till last day of the season though......
Would be great if the 3 teams headed into the final day all with a chance of the title........
Not counting next weeks game between Cobh V Dundalk, there is no way all 3 teams will win all of their remaining games, one if not two will slip up, this may be one or two draws or even a defeat, so all to play for.
Where the hell did the first division title thread go, can't seem to find it...
Magicme
12/10/2007, 8:20 AM
Feckin Mons rolling over and lettin ye win :rolleyes::p
This Div will go all the way imo.
Ha! We did anything but roll over I can tell ya! Looked like we might break the hoodoo of the plastic pitch last nite.
Louth4sam
12/10/2007, 9:25 AM
You must have been watching a different game then me so. Dundalk had about 90% possession but didn't really use it effectively. Its easy to see how Harps won 4-0 last week. Hey magicme, any update on the player who got injured for you last night. Looked like a serious enough injury with the dundalk physio being rushed to help out in the Monaghan dressing room. I hope it isnt as bad as it looked.
Magicme
12/10/2007, 9:30 AM
Havent heard Louth4Sam but thanks for the concern. Jason McCartney is a fine young player & I would be devestated if he has a major injury.
monutdfc
12/10/2007, 9:35 AM
You must have been watching a different game then me so. Dundalk had about 90% possession but didn't really use it effectively. Its easy to see how Harps won 4-0 last week. Hey magicme, any update on the player who got injured for you last night. Looked like a serious enough injury with the dundalk physio being rushed to help out in the Monaghan dressing room. I hope it isnt as bad as it looked.
It was a poor game in truth, but believe me we were much better than on Sunday v Harps. I think 90% is exaggerating, we had a decent share of possession but absolutely no threat upfront; Dundalk looked ok when they knocked it about, but they persisted with long balls up to Trevor and Robbie Doyle which were meat and drink to our defence (although the goal did come as a result of a big belt upfield which we didn't deal with). The substitution created the goal, we didn't adjust to the 3 man forward line: Williamson (left back) had to track Doyle instead of closing down Trevor leaving him space and time to pick his spot.
Don't know about McCartney, it looked pretty bad. It was a late "tackle" by Williams, can't believe the ref, lino and 4th official missed it. Williams is a super player, but I've seen this nasty side to his game before.
Where the hell did the first division title thread go, can't seem to find it...
MR A - I meant to post a similar comment last week, but I thought i`d search for it first, still haven`t found it - so it must be gone
We can take it that this is now the 'official' first div thread now.
Bad luck v Limerick tonight !!!!!!!!!:D
Louth4sam
12/10/2007, 9:51 AM
It was a poor game in truth, but believe me we were much better than on Sunday v Harps. I think 90% is exaggerating, we had a decent share of possession but absolutely no threat upfront; Dundalk looked ok when they knocked it about, but they persisted with long balls up to Trevor and Robbie Doyle which were meat and drink to our defence (although the goal did come as a result of a big belt upfield which we didn't deal with). The substitution created the goal, we didn't adjust to the 3 man forward line: Williamson (left back) had to track Doyle instead of closing down Trevor leaving him space and time to pick his spot.
Don't know about McCartney, it looked pretty bad. It was a late "tackle" by Williams, can't believe the ref, lino and 4th official missed it. Williams is a super player, but I've seen this nasty side to his game before.
Good post, pretty much sums up the game and maybe i did exaggerate about the 90% possession (well just a little bit). Didn't see the tackle myself as it was the other side of the pitch but that ref made a few strange decisions. Thought the young lad who played in goals did well. Dealt with everything bar the goal but he hadn't a clear view of the shot.
more betting scams then from the kilkenny players last night i see - only joking this time, thats a fantastic win by cobh 7-0, must be a club record ? cobh fans ?
superfrank
13/10/2007, 1:15 PM
more betting scams then from the kilkenny players last night i see - only joking this time, thats a fantastic win by cobh 7-0, must be a club record ? cobh fans ?
I know one record they're a part of which mightn't please them......
Bray's biggest win: 8-1 vs. Cobh.
bellavistaman
13/10/2007, 4:24 PM
I know one record they're a part of which mightn't please them......
Bray's biggest win: 8-1 vs. Cobh.
Well done.
Comic Book Guy
14/10/2007, 10:11 AM
I know one record they're a part of which mightn't please them......
Bray's biggest win: 8-1 vs. Cobh.
Superfrank thanks for reminding me and dredging up yet another supressed memory:mad:, you're correct in that you did beat us by 7 but it was 7-0 in 97-98 (I think).
Our own record win is 8-1 v Monaghan a few years ago, Friday night's was our biggest away win.
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