Card stolen help

[paul_oshea]

I had my debit card ( laser card equivalent i spose ) stolen in chicago there at the weekend, £1,000 was put on the card. Because it is debit i have a feeling its a lot harder get your money back am I right? The other thing is, I was locked when it was stolen so I cant say for definite what my last transaction was, the only thing that stands to me is there were very few transactions on the card up until that date and then there were 19.

anyone have this happen to them before?

[Dodge]

Did you report it as stolen as soon as you noticed?

What bank you with? presume its a UK one as I don't think Irish debit cards work abroad (open to correction here...)

[paul_oshea]

ya its an UK one, the thing is I didnt think this worked outside of england ( other than in the atm ), but it appears to have been used all over the place in chicago i.e. not just hole in the walls. Its hsbc.

I reported it sunday morning ( around 11 ) american time, though it was stolen early sunday morning (between 11 - the night before - and 7 american time ) - i had no phone etc and only noticed it was stolen about 6 - 10 hours later so couldn't report it.

[anto1208]

Does it have chip and pin in it ?
I know there was a big problem in the UK with banks and chip and pin cards they said if it was chip and pin then it cant be swipped and you must have given someone the pin .if it was the old style then they should replace the money if not i wouldnt hold out much hope for it .

Irish banks will still hand over the cash all thought this is starting to change

[paul_oshea]

thanks anto, you just made my day after the holiday blues - NOT!

In the states they dont use chip and pin, thats the thing. But this is a maestro and I was pretty sure it was not able to be used like a credit card i.e. only in hole in the walls. The thing is I think someone was watching me when I put in the card and spotted that, even if they didnt, lets say the card was skimmed, surely the banks have to pay for this? its a balls, i will definitely learn from anyhow.

[Dodge]

You might want to read This thread... (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=34002&highlight=skimmed)

[anto1208]

thanks anto, you just made my day after the holiday blues - NOT!

In the states they dont use chip and pin, thats the thing. But this is a maestro and I was pretty sure it was not able to be used like a credit card i.e. only in hole in the walls. The thing is I think someone was watching me when I put in the card and spotted that, even if they didnt, lets say the card was skimmed, surely the banks have to pay for this? its a balls, i will definitely learn from anyhow.

They should give it back to you then , i was full sure that you couldnt use that maestro as a credit card abroad but maybe you can , there isnt much you can learn from it though just one of those things unfortunetly . kick in the stones allright

[OneRedArmy]

Paul, here's the not nice bit.

You are strictly liable for transactions between when you lost the card and when you notified it as stolen. After that time you should not be liable. Your bank may decide not to pursue you for the money, but be prepared not to get it back.

The chip and pin thing is irrelevant. If a card has a magnetic strip on it, it doesn't need Chip and Pin to be used (as was said above US doesn't use Chip and Pin).

From what you said, your card hasn't been skimmed, cloned or anything like that, its simply been used to purchase goods which have been signed for using a falsified signature.

Prepare for the worst, then it can only get better (truly sorry to be the bearer or bad news)

[paul_oshea]

ya i remembered that thread but couldnt find it when I searched. Something differences between mine and blobbyblob are:

I was in chicago, and thats where the transactions occurred I think, bar one possibly. Also I cant for def say it was skimmed.

[paul_oshea]

You are strictly liable for transactions between when you lost the card and when you notified it as stolen. After that time you should not be liable. Your bank may decide not to pursue you for the money, but be prepared not to get it back.

See, I didnt know that and now I feel like sh..
The thing is I didnt realise it was stolen, and even if i had, i had no phone, and i dont know how i would have got through to hsbc as i didnt even have their number......

But in fairness who spends 600 dollars in walgreens?

[OneRedArmy]

Also I cant for def say it was skimmed.I thought the card itself was stolen Paul?:confused:

If it was skimmed, the card is run through a reader (eg attached to the front of an ATM or when restaurant staff take it away) and they they need to get your PIN. They then clone the card (on a blank card such as a Tesco clubcard) and use it to buy goods.

Its sounds like your card was physically stolen and a falsified signature was used to buy good?

If it was skimmed they would've taken cash out on it.

[OneRedArmy]

Paul also disappointing your bank didn't pick up the unusual transaction pattern and stop the card earlier. They all have software that should do this automatically nowadays and 19 transactions in a period of hours is very unusual.

Not a nice thing to happen and could happen anyone (has happened me in similar circumstance).

[paul_oshea]

I thought the card itself was stolen Paul?

It was stolen, but i thought in order to get my pin they could possibly have done that too.

The thing is 1 of the transactions is from a bank machine for 300 dollars. I am 100% sure that isnt mine, but the rest of the transactions were all done using signature......

[OneRedArmy]

Any update from your bank Paul?

Its strange that the card was stolen and they managed to get your PIN.

Are you sure you didn't withdraw the cash yourself?

[Sligo Hornet]

Any update from your bank Paul?

Its strange that the card was stolen and they managed to get your PIN.

Are you sure you didn't withdraw the cash yourself?

Might explain those 200 copies of the "US Big Issue" at the bottom of your bed!:D

[paul_oshea]

Any update from your bank Paul?

Its strange that the card was stolen and they managed to get your PIN.

Are you sure you didn't withdraw the cash yourself?


The last transaction i had was american time at about 5 in the morning, and i could account for that, but the thing is that transaction showed up after another transaction for an amount that I definitely didnt take out (on that day anyhow ), so I reckon that it was just a case of the transaction appearing later ( which they told me on the phone can happen ) than it actually occured.

No update from the bank yet, they told me it would be a few days. They would send out a form, I would then need to sign a form and a fraud investigation would begin.

Looking at the transactions though, they all occurred in 4 shops, and 3 of them occurred in the same shop more than once, with 6 transactions ( 3 per shop )occuring in 2 shops but not in a row ( if that makes sense i.e. they went to different shops in between a rotation policy ). One transaction also cost just under £300 which subsequently sent me £160 over my overdraft limit. I received no voicemails or missed calls on my phone from the bank, which in fairness should have struck a chord with the banks security ( they have rang me before ) as these happened i think in the space of a couple of hours, also there is also a buffer of £100 max on limit, so this transaction shouldn't have been allowed to go through. They are the only things going for me really, but i will use them to the max.

The other thing I cant understand is I tried to use this card in germany and other parts of europe before in shops etc and it was declined. So I dont see how it would work in shops in america...

Is it still 5 years on the CRA if you leave a bad debt? I would be tempted to be honest, cos I already have a mortgage and I still have my accounts in Ireland, a credit card being the only other thing i really require which i have at home.

[Dricky]

Had my card stolen in Spain a few years back, money was debited through Cirrus/mastro. Even though my card was stopped transactions were still being booked 3 days later. The Bank imposed an excess on the return of the money which would have cost €180. I went back to them to request a letter from them to say they were doing this and asked them to include that this was happening despite someone forging my signature (This was the point I highlighted with them and warned them that I would be highlighting this if I wasn't satisfied.) They gave me the all the money back instead.

You can push them for this as it is your right to get an explanation as to why an action has been taken on your account. If they refuse they are opening themselves up to bad press and they will never give you a letter quoting that you have to pay because your sig was a forgery. It will cost you nothing.

There are a few things they have to investigate. The terminal that the transaction was book, that the persons in the shop check the sig, this the shop has to agree to when getting a terminal to use the card. and that the sig is exactly like yours.

This was a Luxembourg bank and they did not want the bad press but there was no cash taken just products purchased.

[OneRedArmy]

Is it still 5 years on the CRA if you leave a bad debt? The bank would likely get a CCJ against you for the outstanding amount (if its a UK bank?). The impact on your credit rating is also an issue but the potential court judgment is the more serious one.

Be polite to the bank but keep on to them. There seems to be a lot of leeway to write off small fraud (small to them, not to you) and they tend to take a decision that if its going to cost them more to investigate its easier to just write it off.

The fact that they managed to withdraw cash is the only puzzling thing here. The rest of the behaviour is standard for pickpockets. Spend as quickly as possible on re-saleable goods before the card is stopped. However, they need your PIN to get the cash out of the ATM and I can't work out how they got that? :confused:

Was the card stolen in a bar?

[paul_oshea]

and that the sig is exactly like yours.

If you saw my signature, you would realise it is the simplest to impersonate. I write like a child, after 5 I never got any better at writing :D Unfortunately thats true.

I worked for a CC company before, and they never issue CCJ for credit cards, bad debts just get sold off and a black tick ( so to speak ) on your credit file, however with an overdraft I am not so sure that they would do this.....so a county court judgement would be worrying.

No the card wasn't stolen in a bar, after the night had ended i withdrew some more money, and I did notice someone looking at me, but prolly too drunk to take too much heed.

Thing is I am willing to take the hit on the $300 dollars withdrawn from ATM as long as I get the rest back. Because I am not sure how they would definitely have seen my pin. The reason I think they only withdrew $300 was because I had previouslly withdrawn some money and I can only withdraw something like £250 a day......but purchases can go on and on etc. Ill ring them again tomorrow if I haven't heard anything back.

THe annoying this is when I reported the card stolen the transactions hadn't shown up on teh account so I thought happy days, as the person on the phone also mentioned nothing about a load of transactions....

[Docboy]

Speaking from experience of working for a bank I think you'll get the money back in the end. You should force the issue though, they do have the option of not compensating you for the transactions made before the matter being reported, however, seeing as the card was stolen and supposing they believe you they should return the funds.

The fact is they, the banks, have forced us the customers to operate in this manner so they generally cough up. Good luck!

[paul_oshea]

Just spoke with the bank there. Got some positive feedback in regards the transactions, looks like i should get my money back if its proven fraud.

Here is a list of the times for some of the transactions. The card was definitely in my pockets at these times, if the guy on the phone was right that its not local time, but UK time i.e. its not 6 hours behind:

The left is my limit going up. How can someone run in and out of a shop in 1 min and rack up that amount ;)

1484.40 D 30/09/07 7:22 am
1480.05 D 30/09/07 7:24 am
1446.88 D 30/09/07 10:24 am
1445.23 D 30/09/07 10:33 am
1363.11 D 30/09/07 9:06 am
1093.30 D 30/09/07 10:29 am
1071.81 D 30/09/07 9:22 am
1020.53 D 30/09/07 9:21 am
969.25 D 30/09/07 10:29 am
926.77 D 30/09/07 10:28 am
854.54 D 30/09/07 8:09 am
802.33 D 30/09/07 10:32 am
798.29 D 30/09/07 6:44 am
767.85 D 30/09/07 9:20 am
716.02 D 30/09/07 8:26 am
688.15 D 30/09/07 9:19 am
636.34 D 30/09/07 8:27 am
608.47 D
606.72 D 29/09/2007 9:58 pm
554.98 D
552.70 D 30/09/07 705 am
400.50 D

ORA the bottom one is the $300 cash withdrawal.

[paul_oshea]

i jumped into the middle as usual above. ORA to answer your original question, I first thought that the card may have been cloned and/or stolen. But now I think I lost it ( after it had been cloned ) and it was also cloned ( as I still had the card in my wallet when these transactions went through UK time), if those transaction times are to be believed. However if you were to add 6 hours to those times to make them UK time, then I would go with the idea that my card was stolen like you refered too.
Either way its good to know I can come on here and get good and sound advice, and a sympathetic ear ( cos I would usually be the one to say it was a stupid mistake on the part of the person who had it done to them, and I still do even though it happened to me :D - which is not always the case I know! ) :)

[OneRedArmy]

Paul whatever you do don't say what you just said above to your banks fraud department!! :D

At a guess I'd say someone observed you entering your PIN when you got the cash out, followed you and dipped your pocket and took your card.

Its possible they had a card reader attachment on the ATM, but in that case there is no real need for them to take the risk and take your card as well.

Its also hypothetically possible you were unluckly enough to be skimmed and have your card stolen separately within a period of hours by different people, but you must have been seriously monkied!!!!

[paul_oshea]

Its also hypothetically possible you were unluckly enough to be skimmed and have your card stolen separately within a period of hours by different people, but you must have been seriously monkied!!!!

If ye knew me, you'd know that anything is possible, and that theory did go through my head!!!! Initially I wasn't "well oiled*" but at the end of the night and the second time I went to the atm I was! :D

Don't worry I said nothing like that to the bank. It would only confuse me, them and anyone else :)

*not sure if monkied means drunk or duped in this circumstance ( or possibly both or just dumb) ;)

[paul_oshea]

I got it back :)

I got slightly over a grand back as well. They refunded one atm withdrawal and all the other transactions that followed that withdrawal.

[Magicme]

Thats great.

[Dodge]

I got it back :)

I got slightly over a grand back as well. They refunded one atm withdrawal and all the other transactions that followed that withdrawal.
good news.