Ireland vs Germany - Pre-match thread

[theworm2345]

Squads out tomorrow, does anyone else even care?

Squad:
Nick Colgan - Barnsley
Colin Doyle - Birmingham City
Shay Given - Newcastle United

Stephen Carr - Newcastle United
Richard Dunne - Manchester City
Steve Finnan - Liverpool
Stephen Kelly - Birmingham City
Paul McShane - Sunderland
Joey O’Brien - Bolton Wanderers
John O’Shea - Manchester United

Lee Carsley - Everton
Jonathon Douglas - Leeds United
Stephen Hunt - Reading
Stephen Ireland - Manchester City
Kevin Kilbane - Wigan Athletic
Aiden McGeady - Celtic
Alan O’Brien - Hibernian
Darren Potter - Wolverhampton Wanderers
Andy Reid - Charlton Athletic

Kevin Doyle - Reading
Stephen Elliot - Wolverhampton Wanderers
Robbie Keane - Tottenham Hotspur
Andy Keogh - Wolverhampton Wanderers
Shane Long - Reading
Daryl Murphy - Sunderland

[greendeiseboy]

Was reading a flyer for a local pubs tv coverage and noticed that germany were playing saturday week!!!

[cavan_fan]

Squads out tomorrow, does anyone else even care?

Of course. After the rugby at least the football team arent that bad. Also the new ranking method (if agreed) would mean we could be 2nd seeds for the next campaign. However if we do beat Germany I'll probably be more frustrated about this campaign.

[ParkLife]

On another note,has anyone received their tickets yet?

[reder]

Also the new ranking method (if agreed) would mean we could be 2nd seeds for the next campaign. However if we do beat Germany I'll probably be more frustrated about this campaign.

How does the system work? Any online info about it?

[shelbourne1904]

On another note,has anyone received their tickets yet?

Not yet:confused:

[tetsujin1979]

Stephen Ireland set to be recalled according to the Indo: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/irelands-recall-as-midfielder-set-for-squad-return-1114322.html

No great surprise there, but this paragraph:

He is also a lively option for the troubled right side of midfield after Aiden McGeady's struggled in the previous two games.
is way off, he started on the right against Wales and was wholly uneffective until he moved into the centre. Against Newcastle at the weekend, he played the inside right channel, as soon as Elano got the ball, he was off running into space. Unfortunately, Ireland don't have anyone who can pick a pass like Elano :(
As has been pointed out before, he didn't do much from a defensive point of view, but with Hamann and Johnson playing behind him, he really didn't need to.

[as_i_say]

IF only steven reid was fit :(

stan wouldnt pick him anyway i suppose

[lionelhutz]

It's a really sad state of affairs when nobody is getting excited about a competitive home match against the most successful european country ever.

This campaign has been one nightmare after another. If he's still manager after this campaign, i doubt very much i'll be going to the matches in the next campaign. My family and I have been block bookers since '96 but the disillusionment since he took over is growing by the day. It's pretty depressing

[soccerc]

Got this email from DFB today.

We are the the "Fan Club Nationalmannschaft", the official supporters club of our national football-team.

It is great what you are planning in Dublin as a sign of "Fan-Friendship". We will put an advice about the Fan Fest on our website, so that all members of the german fan club are informed. And by the end of this week we will send a newsletter to all fans about your activity.

I hope that therefore many away-fans will join the Fan Fest in Dublin.

Let me you know if we can do something to promote your fan-friendly activity."

[wallis]

Klose is out injured for the germans - a small chink of light ?

[Sligo Hornet]

It's a really sad state of affairs when nobody is getting excited about a competitive home match against the most successful european country ever.


Yourself included by the sound of it Lionel!...........Competitive only on paper now (sadly):(.....really nothing more than a Friendly ( for both Countries )

[Wolfie]

Klose is out injured for the germans - a small chink of light ?

Klose isn't Chineese.

[Ireland4ever]

Its a real dilemma...if Ireland Lose theres a greater chance that the clowns in charge could be removed...but on the downside i dont think any proper fan should be wishing for Ireland to lose regardless of what it means. Plus losing wont help our ranking/seedings.

[Wolfie]

McShane and Hunt's suspensions not the best starting point.

[reder]

On another note,has anyone received their tickets yet?

Nope and I hope that the tickets are not sent until the week of the game. This will be a thorn in the side of the obscene amount of knobends who are selling on their tickets.

[DeNiro]

What combination would people prefer, in McShane's absence, in the centre of defence?
Dunne & O'Shea, Dunne & O'Brien or does he throw caution to the wind (he is supposedly rebuilding remember :rolleyes:) and blood someone such as McCarthy or the marvellous St Ledger?


Stokes, Gibson and O'Halloran in U21 squad. Why is Gibson demoted all of a sudden? Building for the future I suppose?

[Bungle]

As much as I want a new quality manager, there is a small opportunity to get into the second batch of seeds for the world cup. If we can do that, there is a very small chance that with our band of dissilusioned mostly premiership players and talented youngsters like Garvan and Gibson, we can qualify for South Africa.

If Stan does go, he wont be replaced with a quality manager like Rehagel or Beenhaker, but a second rate one. Our only hope is that Stan blossoms into a decent enough manager like Mick did and D.Gibson becomes a midfield general like Keane was.

[Wolfie]

What combination would people prefer, in McShane's absence, in the centre of defence?
Dunne & O'Shea, Dunne & O'Brien or does he throw caution to the wind (he is supposedly rebuilding remember :rolleyes:) and blood someone such as McCarthy or the marvellous St Ledger?


Stokes, Gibson and O'Halloran in U21 squad. Why is Gibson demoted all of a sudden? Building for the future I suppose?

Stan will most likely go with Dunne/O'Shea. That was the pairing for the Denmark game when McShane was unavailable.

This could mean Stan will persist with Kelly at right full and will continue to play Finnan at Left full (if he turns up).

[lionelhutz]

What combination would people prefer, in McShane's absence, in the centre of defence?
Dunne & O'Shea, Dunne & O'Brien or does he throw caution to the wind (he is supposedly rebuilding remember :rolleyes:) and blood someone such as McCarthy or the marvellous St Ledger?


Stokes, Gibson and O'Halloran in U21 squad. Why is Gibson demoted all of a sudden? Building for the future I suppose?

What about O'Dea?? Is he getting a game with Celtic this year?? I'd love to see him given a chance after sseing him excel with Celtic last year. I think he certainly deserves a chance ahead of the likes of O'Shea, who has already failed miserably in that position (and every other one for that matter)

[DeNiro]

O'Dea in U21 squad.

Squad
Republic of Ireland Senior Squad for Matches: v Germany (H), October 13, 2007 and Cyprus (H), October 17, 2007.

Nick Colgan - Barnsley
Colin Doyle - Birmingham City
Shay Given - Newcastle United
Stephen Carr - Newcastle United
Richard Dunne - Manchester City
Steve Finnan - Liverpool
Stephen Kelly - Birmingham City
Paul McShane - Sunderland
Joey O’Brien - Bolton Wanderers
John O’Shea - Manchester United
Lee Carsley - Everton
Jonathon Douglas - Leeds United
Stephen Hunt - Reading
Stephen Ireland - Manchester City
Kevin Kilbane - Wigan Athletic
Aiden McGeady - Celtic
Alan O’Brien - Hibernian
Darren Potter - Wolverhampton Wanderers
Andy Reid - Charlton Athletic
Kevin Doyle - Reading
Stephen Elliot - Wolverhampton Wanderers
Robbie Keane - Tottenham Hotspur
Andy Keogh - Wolverhampton Wanderers
Shane Long - Reading
Daryl Murphy - Sunderland

[CJTheGull]

Knowing us we'll probably get a 'brave' draw against the Deutchlanders. Andy Reid must play though and Staunton must start learning from his mistakes - like not playing Douglas where there is better quality on the bench.
Remember 3 things - we were HAMMERED 5-2 by Cyprus, just about beat the worst team in Europe San Marino 2-1 with a last billisecond goal and then drew with a very poor Slovak team 2-2 by conceeding a late, late goal. The fact that Wales CRUSHED the Slovaks 5-2 a few days later shows how good they really are.

[greendeiseboy]

joey o'brien in squad - out injured for 15 months and picks up another injury last saturday - dont want to knock the lad but ffs how can he be considered for a game like this and dont give me any s*it about having no options.........another beauty from staunton

[tetsujin1979]

dont give me any s*it about having no options.........another beauty from staunton
well then what options are there?

no real problem with the squad, it's pretty much what I would have picked, Douglas's inclusion is still puzzling, but Leeds are on a roll and he's playing consistently for them

[drummerboy]

Nicky Colgan, Alan O’Brien, are both poor players who would struggle to get their game in some Eircom league clubs.

[bwagner]

he is a mental case isnt he ..like J o brien is only back .
He needs to blood another centre back for fecks sake , ahhhhh just get him out

[shanman2]

he is a mental case isnt he ..like J o brien is only back .
He needs to blood another centre back for fecks sake , ahhhhh just get him out

Its scandalous it really is. How the hell can he justify putting him back into the full squad so soon. I think he is a good player but its a bit early for him to come back to the full squad.

[gustavo]

2 centre backs available for the Germany game , if you count O'Shea who hasnt played centre back for his club for years

[OneRedArmy]

Nope and I hope that the tickets are not sent until the week of the game. This will be a thorn in the side of the obscene amount of knobends who are selling on their tickets.Appreciate the intention of your comments, but when you are responsible for distributing 50 tickets to SC members getting them less than a week in advance is a complete pain in the hole.

Incompetent fools :mad:

[macdermesser]

2 centre backs available for the Germany game , if you count O'Shea who hasnt played centre back for his club for years

Unbucking believable .. he's playing us for all gombeens with the I'm working towards the 2010 world cup blarney ... is he planning on playing a 2-4-4 formation for the qualifiers. At the very least Andy O Brien should be there for cover .. and he has to blood a young centre half or at least have a few in the squad for experience

[greendeiseboy]

[QUOTE=tetsujin1979;781617]well then what options are there?


darren gibson!!!!!!!!!!
jay tabb
pat cregg
stephen reid
roy o'donovan
kevin foley

as far as i know all with the exception of reid and gibson are playing regularly

[Reddladd]

Surely Alan O'Brien should mean Andy O'Brien.
We're short centre backs and Andy is in the first team at Bolton.
However we have no shortage of headless chickens in and around the senior international team albeit a fast one.

[bwagner]

But Alan O'Brien is very fast!

there is a reason for this paddy....

Stan bought Alan these special boots that have go faster stripes on them ......
That sneaky wee louth chancer

[carloz]

So Gibson was good enough to come on and play some 25 minutes against Slovakia.......and now he is not good enough to get in the senior squad. Stans stupidity highlighted for the umpteenth time. Also i think it was time to call back up Andy O'Brien. He is back playing some Premiership football and is playing in a ppsition we really need cover for. These are the games where we need to look at alternatives for McShane and Dunne as they are not going to be available for every match. I think O'Brien has been unfairly taking the flack for that Cyprus nightmare. Stephen Ireland, kevin Kilbane and even to a lesser extent Dunne were every bit as bad as O'Brien that night. IMO McGeadys performances in Slovakia and the Czech republic were worse than O'Briens against Cyprus. Problem is O'Brien is in a position where mistakes are much more costly

[Stuttgart88]

Finnan was every bit as bad too. Kenny baled him out at least once.

[zenokelly]

I really couldn't be bothered repeating the exact same things I said after the last squad was named (namely the inclusion of Colgan and Douglas)

But I do feeel sorry for Stan in what you are saying about the shortage of defenders in the squad.

FACT: We are extremely short of central defenders of even a decent standard
FACT: If you take all of Andy O Briens matches for Ireland, you see that he is not international standard(all poor with a couple an exception)
FACT: He was the main culprit in the worst defeat in Ireland's history
FACT: Stan has tried the next batch of defenders in the US and he has seen their performances in training and on the pitch and he has made the decision that they are not good enough for full international duty (which he is paid to do)
FACT: If Stan picked Alan Bennett or Darren O Dea etc. in the team for the Germany match (which most of you seem you want to see) and they had a horror game, Stan would get the stick again.

PLEASE: Do not blame Stan for the shortage of defenders in the squad.

[carloz]

I
FACT: If you take all of Andy O Briens matches for Ireland, you see that he is not international standard(all poor with a couple an exception)
.

Err what performances are you basing this on. he has always been very reliable for Ireland and is a more than capable central defender. Dont tar him with that perfromance against Cyprus, the team was brutal then and Dunne was every bit as bad as him. We need options at central defence and he is still the best we have that is not in the squad. O'Dea has hardly been setting the world alight this year and McCarthy doesnt look great at Charlton. O'Brien is back playing central defence in a premiership team now, and has generally looked good in a green shirt. thats enough for me


PLEASE: Do not blame Stan for the shortage of defenders in the squad.
who selects the squad. of cource its Stans fault. he cant find room for any central defenders yet he can find room for a very average winger from Hibernian that has proven nothing at any level. Yes we are low on central defenders but you should always ALWAYS have at least 4 in the main squad, whatever level they are.

[Irish_Praha]

FACT: If Stan picked Alan Bennett or Darren O Dea etc. in the team for the Germany match (which most of you seem you want to see) and they had a horror game, Stan would get the stick again.

PLEASE: Do not blame Stan for the shortage of defenders in the squad.

I know we don't have much quality as back-up for Dunne and McShane and it will probably be an O'Shea-Dunne pairing for the German game. However, all we are asking is that he includes someone in the squad as back-up who plays regularly at CB for his club. I consider overlooking Andy O'Brien, who has lots of international experience and has had many, many more good games than bad for us, is a poor decision IMO. His poor performance against Cyprus was because he wasn't match sharp. I'm not saying he's the best defender in the world but what will Stan do if Dunne or O'Shea get injured during the game? Play one of the strikers there? or Kilbane because he's tall? I know I'd prefer to take my chances with O'Brien than any of those options. I'd even consider throwing on one of the young lads as a better option and think at least one of the CBs from the U21s should have been included in the squad to start with, if this building for the future bullsh!t is to be believed.

[zenokelly]

Err what performances are you basing this on. he has always been very reliable for Ireland and is a more than capable central defender. Dont tar him with that perfromance against Cyprus, the team was brutal then and Dunne was every bit as bad as him. We need options at central defence and he is still the best we have that is not in the squad. O'Dea has hardly been setting the world alight this year and McCarthy doesnt look great at Charlton. O'Brien is back playing central defence in a premiership team now, and has generally looked good in a green shirt. thats enough for me


who selects the squad. of cource its Stans fault. he cant find room for any central defenders yet he can find room for a very average winger from Hibernian that has proven nothing at any level. Yes we are low on central defenders but you should always ALWAYS have at least 4 in the main squad, whatever level they are.

I do not think he deserves to play for us again, unless he really shows something for Bolton that he has failed to show me previously. IMO, he cost us at least a play-off place for the last world cup with his needless sending off against Israel and the peno he gave away in that match. He has never pulled off a near great performance in any Irish match so how you can say he should be given a chance is beyond me. (maybe I'm just being too harsh but I basically think he is ****e!)

The exclusion of O Brien from Stan's previous squads is one decision I have been happy about.

Next thing you'll want Morrison back, and Alan Lee ffs!

It is not Stan's fault he has no decent options to choose from so no it isn't his fault with the few defenders he's chosen.

[carloz]

I do not think he deserves to play for us again, unless he really shows something for Bolton that he has failed to show me previously. IMO, he cost us at least a play-off place for the last world cup with his needless sending off against Israel and the peno he gave away in that match. He has never pulled off a near great performance in any Irish match so how you can say he should be given a chance is beyond me. (maybe I'm just being too harsh but I basically think he is ****e!)

The exclusion of O Brien from Stan's previous squads is one decision I have been happy about.

Next thing you'll want Morrison back, and Alan Lee ffs!

It is not Stan's fault he has no decent options to choose from so no it isn't his fault with the few defenders he's chosen.
No what im saying is we need at least another central defender in the squad. Who would you recommend then??? Or would you agree with having two available centre halfs for the Germany game. Yes our options are not great but you pick the best of what you have and O'Brien is that. So your blaming him for costing us qualification even though John O'Shea gave away the penalty for hand ball.The sneding off seemed to be for O'Brien breathing to heavily on Dudu Awat, it really was a stupid decision to send him off from a ref who bought into Awats antics all night. thats hardly O'Briens fault. I think you are being very harsh, im not exactly a massive fan of the guy, but we need to select more central defenders and he is probably the 3rd/4th best we have at the mo

[zenokelly]

No what im saying is we need at least another central defender in the squad. Who would you recommend then??? Or would you agree with having two available centre halfs for the Germany game. Yes our options are not great but you pick the best of what you have and O'Brien is that. So your blaming him for costing us qualification even though John O'Shea gave away the penalty for hand ball.The sneding off seemed to be for O'Brien breathing to heavily on Dudu Awat, it really was a stupid decision to send him off from a ref who bought into Awats antics all night. thats hardly O'Briens fault. I think you are being very harsh, im not exactly a massive fan of the guy, but we need to select more central defenders and he is probably the 3rd/4th best we have at the mo

Maybe I am being a bit harsh on him but basically I think he is ****e. He has let Stan down in Cyprus and he isn't a kid for the future all I'm saying is that there is no point of bringing him in when he is not good enough. Stan does not have any options at the mo that are glaring at him so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Anyway, it's not as if it's a do or die fixture that such drastic action needs to be taken.

[harpsman2000]

i think the players have to take some of the blame for this campaign........i admit stan has made mistakes

look at spurs they have a great manager in Martin Jol .....but the players are not performing



im gonna stick by stan and cheer the irish on against the mighty germans

[danonion]

I really couldn't be bothered repeating the exact same things I said after the last squad was named (namely the inclusion of Colgan and Douglas)

But I do feeel sorry for Stan in what you are saying about the shortage of defenders in the squad.

FACT: We are extremely short of central defenders of even a decent standard
FACT: If you take all of Andy O Briens matches for Ireland, you see that he is not international standard(all poor with a couple an exception)
FACT: He was the main culprit in the worst defeat in Ireland's history
FACT: Stan has tried the next batch of defenders in the US and he has seen their performances in training and on the pitch and he has made the decision that they are not good enough for full international duty (which he is paid to do)
FACT: If Stan picked Alan Bennett or Darren O Dea etc. in the team for the Germany match (which most of you seem you want to see) and they had a horror game, Stan would get the stick again.

PLEASE: Do not blame Stan for the shortage of defenders in the squad.

Where to start with this post? Nothing like a punter marketing his (questionable) opinions as FACTs.

FACT number 2 is extremely subjective. Andy O'Brien was very good throughout most of the '06 WC campaign and was unlucky to be sent off in Israel.

FACT number 3 is a poorly supported opinion. The team appeared to have no structure and proper instructions for the Cyprus game. The midfield left the defense to hang. There were at least four players equally or more culpable than Andy O'Brien.

FACT number 4 states that the next batch of defenders aren't good enough. If thats the case, do you believe its better to not have another central defender if we lose one to injury. Zenokelly would rather see Kilbane slot in ahead of A. O'Brien. That clearly makes a lot of sense. If the next generation wasn't good enough, we better stick with the previous. It is unacceptable to have two central defenders available for a game.

And fact number 5 states that Stan shouldn't pick the likes of Bennett or O'Dea because he would get stick for it. That is a ridiculous argument - he is going to get far more stick if we leak several goals at home if we lose one of our central defenders.

I am not advocating picking O'Dea or Bennett or O'Brien or Gary Breen or Paddy McCarthy or Graham Coughlan or Alex Bruce or any other centre-back. But there needs to be ONE more in the squad ahead of a useless midfielder like Alan O'Brien.

Stan is culpable for almost all of our woes in this campaign. We had the players to get second out of this group, as Wales demonstrated when they put Slovakia to the sword.

Edit: And those swipes at Alan Lee and Morrison are unnecessary. I like Keane, Doyle and Long but the likes of Keogh, Murphy and Elliot have proven nothing. Morrison has scored away from home and has over a century of league goals. And he's scored away from home in competitive fixtures - did I mention that already? Its worth saying twice because we needed that experience in this campaign.

[Torn-Ado]

I also think that the slating of Morrisson was uncalled for. He managed what our golden boy could not: Score away from home and against half decent opposition. He also caused havoc against France away from home. I personally think thats what we are missing up front. A big strong striker because Doyle and Keane will not prosper with that midfield and defence.

[ifk101]

Disappointing to see Joey O'Brien in the squad. He's just back from a long injury and with Carr, Finnan and Kelly in the squad, what's the point in bringing him over? He should be focused on establishing he's club career again and a week training with and being looked after by professionals in Bolton would surely be more benefical to him than letting that grinning eejit give him instructions.

Nicky Colgan, Alan O'Brien and Jon Douglas are in the squad again. There's absolutely no justification for Alan O'Brien's inclusion in the squad and what ever people may think of Andy O'Brien surely he's more deserving of a squad place than Alan O'Brien. Maybe certain players need to change their agent before Stan picks the strongest squad available ...

[shakermaker1982]

I thought we'd see some wild cards and a few more prospects seeing as we are building for the WC in South Africa.

[macdermesser]

I thought we'd see some wild cards and a few more prospects seeing as we are building for the WC in South Africa.

Yep .. I honestly thought Roy Brady was going to be in the team after Stan had read in the Sun that Man United were after him

[lionelhutz]

Maybe I am being a bit harsh on him but basically I think he is ****e. He has let Stan down in Cyprus and he isn't a kid for the future all I'm saying is that there is no point of bringing him in when he is not good enough. Stan does not have any options at the mo that are glaring at him so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Anyway, it's not as if it's a do or die fixture that such drastic action needs to be taken.

Àlthough I don't agree that O'Brien has been regularly ****e for ireland, i do think he's an average defender who doesn't have a good reading of the game. Also, what would be the point of bringing him into the squad now when it's a certainty he won't be part of the next qualifying campaign??

But there's no doubt he should have a third central defensive option, it's absolutely shocking he has that amount of strikers and 1 natural centre half. At least bring in O'Dea for cover ffs

[WembleyGreen]

Seems Stan is dancing to the 'loyalty/stupidity' linedance routine as alluded to by the 'septic one' on Wearside! He's even comparing himself to teflon Bertie today in the Indo. Alan O'Brien? Not even a regular for Hibs, OK Hunt is out but will this guy even feature? Why not include Miller? Surely he deserves a chance given his performances for Sunderland? Douglas? Surely he could include Gary McSheffrey who is playing a blinder for B'ham at the moment (assuming he is qualified to play for us of course, if someone knows the answer please because I've seen differing reports on this) Douglas is NOT an International level player, if he was he wouldn't be playing for Leeds in Div.3. Elliot? again at this level he's just not good enough. As for Andy O'Brien, he's been scapegoated for Cyprus and he was bad that night, lets not beat around the bush here, but so were most of the team and as for tactics, game plan etc? F*****g headless chickens would have been more organised than what Stan put out, same in San Marino. O'Brien deserves another chance and it's not like we're blessed with central defenders anyway. Clinton Morrison is another who seems to have been scapegoated by Stan & Co. he has had his moments but then he has also scored when it counted and he would be more of threat up front than Doyle has been of late, OK he scored a cracker against the Slovaks but he has been invisible this season for both Reading and Ireland for the most part. Sadly the real problem we have right now is the quality of players available to us and it's not helped by an 'L' plate manager with a 'slow' learning ability and a stubborn 'know it all' attitude. I think the Germans will stuff us anyway as much as I am praying for a miracle, what am I saying, I'm an atheist for Christs sake! We owe Cyprus though, 5-0 at least!

[Larks]

1. I'd love to see O'shea on the bench for once, he creates nothing much going forward and he makes to many mistakes. Can you imagine a back line of John O'sheas??! Get the ball, hoof it!

2. How often does finnan play right back for his country??
He's outstanding there for his club, defends well and also bombs forward and gets a few crosses in. Then we coul maybe play john o shea (LB for man u) or even my preference, Kevin Kilbane. He's good in the air, and fairly solid, but in my opinion not creative enough for centre mid. I reckon he'd easily adapt to this position.

Then we could have, with a full squad, Dunne and Mcshane in the centre with the option of bringing on O'shea anywhere in the backs.

3. Ireland are missing creativity and vision and even basic pass and move skills. Steven Ireland and Aidan Mcgeady don't shine at all for their country at the moment whereas they are so lively and energetic with their clubs.

In centre mid I'd have Darren potter and ????.
On the wings Stephen Hunt and Andy reid