20 Moments that shook Irish Sport

[geysir]

Pedantic point but the big crowd scenes were not from Glenmalure Park.
That big billboard on the terraces "Gold Flake Satisfies" :) was a Dalymount fixture.

I think there was some action from the 1968 cup final.

[Stuttgart88]

Shamrock Rovers - Un. Craiova The Craiova 'keeper on those games was Silviu Lung, who was the Romanian 'keeper in Genoa in 1990.

[OwlsFan]

Pedantic point but the big crowd scenes were not from Glenmalure Park.
That big billboard on the terraces "Gold Flake Satisfies" :) was a Dalymount fixture.

I think there was some action from the 1968 cup final.

Yep, most of the action footage was from Dalyer including Mick Leech putting one past Thomas and tapping him on the head afterwards in the cup final. Nice shots though also of Milltown including the famous "FCUK TOLKA" banner.

[pete]

No. 20 was actually Paidi O'Se calling Kerry people a bunch of F***ING animals. How this was considered a major moment in Irish sporting history I'll never know.


Because the top 20 was decided by RTE/Production Company. Website only allowed you to rank them from 1-5 stars. They should have given a list & ask to actually rank 1-20.

[OwlsFan]

I suppose there had to be some sort of screening. If I had my way, Mullingar refusing to finish a cricket cup semi-final against us because the wicket was a bit damp would be my sporting outrage because I knew most of my team wouldn't be available to travel again to Mullingar to finish the game the following weekend. Pretty subjective ;)

[mypost]

Nice shots though also of Milltown including the famous "FCUK TOLKA" banner.

That wasn't the correct spelling. :D

[Bluebeard]

Just went through the list.

Carpet-Gate at 7
Man tackle roughly in rugby at 6 (spot the Ole Oireland's Corl lot here)
Guy denies doing drugs the year he didn't win the Tour de France, 11 years after the alleged doping took place at 12
F.F.S.

The ultimate act in the sacrificing of domestic Irish football by the people we had naively trusted to run it, a moment when rampant opportunism was finally allowed to nakedly crap on our sport only comes in at 15th??????
R.R.S.

And while we're at it, why was there no mention of the kid seriously injured, IIRC, in a county championship game in Galway in the past couple of years? Where was the mention of the mass fights that broke out in Cork - Kerry football games in the late 1980s? What about the various fights in the old Cross-Border competitions in the 1970s? The reaction caused in Ireland (and particularly in professional cycling on the continent) by revelations of doping in the sport in Paul Kimmage's (excellent) book Rough Ride in 1990?

Let's get Political. How about the fact that, in the light of a seeming great result in swimming at the Olympics, we managed to fumble getting an Olympic sized swimming pool built: why wasn't that, or a leaky national aquatic centre mentioned? Or that at it's height of popularity here, when we provided the world's greatest number one in the sport for years, and only the second man to win the grand treble of World Championship, Giro and le Tour, nothing was ever done to build cycling in Ireland - surely there was a missed opportunity that should be exposed? What about the promise, the cost and then the nothing about the proposed National Stadium, where two parties colluded to ensure a joint election victory on the basis of one promising it, and the other swearing it would never happen? How many millions from Irish sport did that take? Or the continual lining of the GAA against the FAI and IRFU over funding when the three bodies joint sum is a drop in the Ocean compared to what is thrown at the dogs and the horses - already profitable organisations with a much lower potential involvement base outside of betting and doing next to nothing to encourage youth to get involved in regular excercise. Or, if you like the various governments failure to do something to encourage the youth of the country to get fit, indirectly contributing to the slow blockage of Irish arteries? I had no idea what little care is given to the increase in Irish obesity untilI came to London and could see how great the concern is here in contrast.

Or if we really want to get into dark territory for R.T.É., home of the "Premiership", why not mention how many Irish millionaires are spending their spare vanity cash on buying English and Scottish clubs when their home teams are starving to death. Or how the country's Taoiseach, leader of the self styled "Republican" Party in the South, went on the box to proclaim his love for an English football team to the de facto exclusion of all Irish sides.

Staying with the "National" Broadcaster, how about the fact that it now spends more of it's money on games taking place with little or no direct Irish involvement and now does less to promote what is happening in Ireland than it did 20 years ago: volleyball, hockey, club rugby (RIP I believe), basketball, local athletics are all reduced in the scedules, and the few that are not down on years ago - domestic football for example - are treated like dirt. Almost the most scandalous RTÉ crime of all - Ger Canning! He has been allowed to commentate on football - a game he happily detests, and we can hear every time he does so. Even when commentating on the GAA, he is abominable.

But the one that really f*cks me off with the list more than the others is this: the absolutely shocking revelations of abuse of children in the care of swimming coaches. How can this be less significant than Saipan, never mind Paudí O'Shea being a pottymouth with a public? If anything should have topped the poll, that's what I would suggest. That wrecked confidence in swimming in many quarters: in a country where individual sports are already discriminated against so much, swimming had done quite well and had a degree of success in attracting people who may not be ordinarily interested in sport. In a very real sense, this was a criminal issue, and should never be forgotten as one of the darkest times for Irish sport.

[OwlsFan]

Some interesting ones there. The Blaxnit Trophy between North and South teams ended up in riots. A friend of mine at a Rovers game against Coleraine I think it was got struck by a bottle.

I suspect the swimming abuse wasn't put in due to the fact that the show was presented by Mario Rosenstock and it took a light hearted look for the most part at the moments. Nothing light hearted in any way about that but you're correct, in a totally serious top 20 it should have been there.

The National Stadium: was ANYONE shocked that it wasn't built?

[pete]

Some good ones on the potential political list above.

I think the mass brawls in GAA not mentioned as they common & sort of covered in the Irish-Australian No Rules series. I thought it was funny how they showed the RTE promo for the Series which was hyping the physical nature wuthout actually mentioning RTE - I suppose this is as close as RTE get to self criticism :D

[mypost]

I thought it was funny how they showed the RTE promo for the Series which was hyping the physical nature wuthout actually mentioning RTE - I suppose this is as close as RTE get to self criticism :D

One great story was when the series was on in the 80's, think it was the '87 series there, in the days when RTE wouldn't show the matches live from there yet, as it interrupted the Closedown slot. So they showed highlights instead, but for one match, couldn't do so, as apparantly "the tape got lost in transit". :D :D LOL!!

[Bluebeard]

The National Stadium: was ANYONE shocked that it wasn't built?
True, none who thought for five seconds about the way it was being done were even mildly surprised; the reason I listed it was that I think the money spent on a Grand Project that no-one ever expected to see happen was a shocking waste of money that could otherwise be used to develop sports in the country.

[Rovers fan]

The biggest non-story had to be the English rugby players lining up on the wrong side of the red carpet.

ya i thought the same myself, it hardly "shook irish sport"

[pineapple stu]

From watching the programme, the sale of Milltown appeared pretty much inevitable. Rovers overspent on their four in a row team in a similar fashion to Shels in recent years, and trusted to a sugar daddy with some vague far out of reach Euro aspirations. There didn't really seem to be an alternative for selling the ground. Shocking that 20 years on, clubs still haven't learnt, and the FAI still hasn't got a mechanism in place to prevent it from happening again.

[mypost]

That is of course, from just watching the programme.

But as the saying goes, "there's more to it than meets the eye".

[DvB]

From watching the programme, the sale of Milltown appeared pretty much inevitable. Rovers overspent on their four in a row team in a similar fashion to Shels in recent years, and trusted to a sugar daddy with some vague far out of reach Euro aspirations. There didn't really seem to be an alternative for selling the ground. Shocking that 20 years on, clubs still haven't learnt, and the FAI still hasn't got a mechanism in place to prevent it from happening again.


Oh come on, surely you don't genuinely believe the guff Lucifer & his ilk came out with to justify their sale of the ground to property developers!? If so i'm genuinely disappointed, it is totally incomparable with the Shels situation!

Koh

[Dodge]

Stu relates everything to the Shels situation...

[pineapple stu]

Me? Never!

It is similar in a way though (run up massive debts chasing an unfeasible dream and sell the ground to cover them), although I don't know the ins and outs of the Milltown sale (before my time...), which is why I was asking the question.

[CollegeTillIDie]

pineapple stu

Oversimplified view of the situation. Basically you aren't old enough to have been aware of what was happening at the time. There was a lot of dirty work at the crossroads. Two examples
1) The Dublin Corporation voted unanimously AGAINST planning permission for Glenmalure Park. It was overturned by An Bord Pleanala. A few years later there was an internal inquiry in An Bord Pleanala as to how certain decisions were reached. The Milltown decision NOT INCLUDED in the inquiry. There were a lot of brown envelopes floating around planning issues at this time. It is not outside the realms of possibility that these were involved in this instance too.

2) The Kilcoynes owned a construction company called Healy Homes. Shamrock Rovers fans may be able to confirm this, but one of the theories was that Milltown was sold partly to offset losses in their other business, which in the early 1970's when they bought Rovers was able to partly fund the team.

[pineapple stu]

Just had a read of the thread there on the Rovers forum; very interesting. Should obviously point out that, even in the case that Rovers were losing lots of money, in my opinion selling the ground should never have been allowed by the likes of the FAI or An Bord Pleanála. Have no problem with any of the Rovers fans' views of Kilcoyne, and later giving him a job in Merrion Square was disgraceful.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Just had a read of the thread there on the Rovers forum; very interesting. Should obviously point out that, even in the case that Rovers were losing lots of money, in my opinion selling the ground should never have been allowed by the likes of the FAI or An Bord Pleanála.
How could they have though? They owened it so could do as they liked with it. Only way I can think of if it was made a listed building but I'm sure that was totally out of the question.

[pineapple stu]

Clubs should not be allowed to sell their own grounds without some sort of plan. The FAI should have stepped in immediately.

In England, legal cases have been taken against clubs whose directors have tried to sell their grounds from under them (Wrexham the most recent example), and have had their cases upheld for reasons along the line of football grounds being important public centres. Obviously, it appears there was something dodgy with the legal processes...

[paul_oshea]

They owened it

Sorry, but thats a very interesting word. they owed it and owned it in one. Its funny that it came up in this conversation as well as it wouldn't be ironic at all otherwise.

[Schumi]

How could they have though? They owened it so could do as they liked with it. Only way I can think of if it was made a listed building but I'm sure that was totally out of the question.

An Bord Pleanála shouldn't have granted planning permission for houses. There would have been no value in selling it without that.

[gspain]

Clubs should not be allowed to sell their own grounds without some sort of plan. The FAI should have stepped in immediately.

In England, legal cases have been taken against clubs whose directors have tried to sell their grounds from under them (Wrexham the most recent example), and have had their cases upheld for reasons along the line of football grounds being important public centres. Obviously, it appears there was something dodgy with the legal processes...

Rovers were not losing money. They sold Alan Campbell, Liam Buckley and Liam O'Brien for big fees at the time. They were the richest club in the league. This wasn't a Shelbourne. anyway Rovers didn't get the money from the sale of the ground. The Kilcoynes did.

[OneRedArmy]

An Bord Pleanála shouldn't have granted planning permission for houses. There would have been no value in selling it without that.Given the level of planning corruption then and since the chance of it not getting PP, right in the middle of Milltown, was almost zero.

[pineapple stu]

Rovers were not losing money. They sold Alan Campbell, Liam Buckley and Liam O'Brien for big fees at the time.
Fair enough. Wasn't aware of that, to be honest. Had always envisaged it as Kilcoyne giving a large loan to the company, and then selling the ground to pay it off, which gets around your point about him not owning the ground.

[gspain]

pineapple stu

Oversimplified view of the situation. Basically you aren't old enough to have been aware of what was happening at the time. There was a lot of dirty work at the crossroads. Two examples
1) The Dublin Corporation voted unanimously AGAINST planning permission for Glenmalure Park. It was overturned by An Bord Pleanala. A few years later there was an internal inquiry in An Bord Pleanala as to how certain decisions were reached. The Milltown decision NOT INCLUDED in the inquiry. There were a lot of brown envelopes floating around planning issues at this time. It is not outside the realms of possibility that these were involved in this instance too.

2) The Kilcoynes owned a construction company called Healy Homes. Shamrock Rovers fans may be able to confirm this, but one of the theories was that Milltown was sold partly to offset losses in their other business, which in the early 1970's when they bought Rovers was able to partly fund the team.

It is beyond the realms of possibility that brown envelopes were NOT involved in any of their planning decisions at the time. They were totally completely and utterly corrupt.

[geysir]

It is beyond the realms of possibility that brown envelopes were NOT involved in any of their planning decisions at the time. They were totally completely and utterly corrupt.
I think you meant to write,
It is beyond the realms of possibility that brown envelopes were involved.


Kilcoyne gave evidence to the Planning Tribunal
http://www.planningtribunal.ie/images/SITECONTENT_114.pdf
page 2
Kilcoyne "we retained Frank Dunlop & Associates to
represent our interests and to make representations. Mr. Dunlop had, at that time, a strong reputation as a successful lobbyist".
I think the brown envelopes are referred to as enducements in his evidence.

I haven't gone through Kilcoyne's evidence to the tribunal, I assume the PP for Glenmalure Pk. wasn't discussed otherwise we would have heard about it by now.

[OwlsFan]

This selection process for the new manager and who they eventually appoint by 2015 may eventually join the ranks of the top 20.