View Full Version : Who owns your club?
The thread about which club people would like to buy brings up a question in my head regarding who currently owns all the EL clubs.
Not who specifically, but are they owned privately and operated as a Limited Company or PLC or are they fan owned like Harps, Rovers and others. And who actually owns some of the lower Div 1 clubs like Mons, Kildare, Kilkenny? Probably run by committees who raise the cash for the team, but who actually owns the entity and elects or appoints the committee?
For example, Harps are owned by shareholders in a Co-Operative Society, who elect the board from the shareholders to run the club. Rovers seems to be something similar with the 400 Club Members electing the board. Whats the story with Bohs members club - I take it they elect the board too.
If clubs are privately owned are they entirely at the mercy of their owners, if their motives are suspect - as a lot of clubs with valuable land assets seems to have suddenly become of interest to new owners, while Shels owners seem to have sold their soul to similar interests.
Whats happened at Cork recently - has Lennox sold his control of the club entirely and who owns it now?
Galway have a lot of high profile business people listed on their Board of Directors, and I think their Supporters TRust have a percentage share of the club too, but who owns the thing at the end of the day.
Anybody able to correct or fill in the gaps in this list which is off the top of my head. Try and stick to facts rather than a thread of speculation and guesses.
CLUB OWNERSHIP
Drogheda Utd Private Owners / PLC
Shamrock Rvs Members Club
St Pats Ath Private Owner / PLC
Cork City Private Owner / PLC
Sligo Rovers Co-operative
Bohemians Members Club
Derry City Private Owner / PLC
UCD College Club
Galway United Private Owner / PLC
Bray Wanderers ??
Waterford Utd ??
Longford Town Private Owner / PLC
Cobh Ramblers Members Club
Finn Harps Co-operative
Dundalk Private Owner / PLC
Limerick 37 Private Owner / PLC
Shelbourne Private Owner / PLC
Monaghan Utd ??
Athlone Town ??
Kildare County ??
Wexford Youths Private Owner / PLC
Kilkenny City ??
Whats happened at Cork recently - has Lennox sold his control of the club entirely and who owns it now?
Owned by Arkaga (an Investment Fund).
I think Waterford are privately owned.. I certainly remember them doing a big share issue. I'm not sure what Limerick's status is- are they owned by the Junior League or something?
Owned by Arkaga (an Investment Fund).
So who runs the club day to day, sets the budget, appoints the manager?
green-blood
19/09/2007, 11:31 AM
a board of directors, employed by the investment company
Lim till i die
19/09/2007, 11:59 AM
I'm not sure what Limerick's status is- are they owned by the Junior League or something?
40% is publicly owned or something like that
Nobody really knows............
Stato
19/09/2007, 12:14 PM
St Pats:
Private company, now owned 100% by Garreth Kelleher or his company Shelbourne Developments. First time in the history of the club that it's not owned by supporters of the club but no one seems to mind.
Before Kelleher the club was owned approx 60% by Gerry Mulvey, 30% by Andy O'Callaghan and 10% by a number of others including former board members. Before that it was owned approx 75% owned by Tim O'Flaherty.
So who runs the club day to day, sets the budget, appoints the manager?
The CEO as appointed by the owners. Mr. Tynan formerly of the Irish Greyhound Board. I think there is still an advisory board from Lennox days but it would not have any power.
Patrick Dunne
19/09/2007, 12:25 PM
GUFC is owned a private company, Galway Football Ltd. The shares are held by a number of individuals on behalf of the wider football community.
The Galway and District League own 30% of GUFC. Galway United Supporters Trust have no shareholding at the present time.
pineapple stu
19/09/2007, 12:28 PM
I think Waterford are privately owned.. I certainly remember them doing a big share issue.
Waterford are a plc since they floated a few years back. The other clubs you have down as plcs should be Ltds (except the ones I've noted below). Just a technical correction though.
Bray, Kildare and Kilkenny are also private companies (Ltds). Monaghan, Athlone and Longford are partnerships.
What is meant by partnership here stu?
pineapple stu
19/09/2007, 12:33 PM
A partnership is a legal body, usually used by accountancy firms and legal firms. All moneys come in, and all partners share the profits out equally at the end of the year. (They don't have to take it, just know that it's shared).
In practical terms, there's no annual accounts filed and, usually, there's no limited liability.
Partnerships are owned by the partners on whatever basis is agreed among them. So very similar in structure to a limited company, but basically without the filing requirements of one, and similar little differences.
sonofstan
19/09/2007, 12:45 PM
A partnership is a legal body, usually used by accountancy firms and legal firms. All moneys come in, and all partners share the profits out equally at the end of the year..
Are you sure it has to be 'equally'? I was a partner in a such a body once and I seem to remember our accountant advising us that we could share it anyway we wanted as long as it was agreed between all partners.
You can see why the absence of a filing requirement would be attractive in an EL context.
Yes- but the lack of limited liability mightn't be so appealing!
As a matter of interest- what are the prerequisites to be a member of the members clubs- what's the yearly fee and can anyone at all join?
pineapple stu
19/09/2007, 12:49 PM
Are you sure it has to be 'equally'? I was a partner in a such a body once and I seem to remember our accountant advising us that we could share it anyway we wanted as long as it was agreed between all partners.
:confused:
Yeah, don't know why I put that in!
It's shared out in its entirety between all the partners, in the ratio or basis as agreed and as alluded to elsewhere in my post. Sorry 'bout that.
St Pats:
Private company, now owned 100% by Garreth Kelleher or his company Shelbourne Developments. First time in the history of the club that it's not owned by supporters of the club but no one seems to mind.
its owned by a holding company of which Mr Kelleher and his wife are sole directors and share holders. Its kept seperate from Shelbourne Developments.
And the club hasn't been owned by a fan in years and years. Only Andy O'Callaghan would be considered a Pats fan before he invested.
Celdrog
19/09/2007, 2:03 PM
The Drogs are currently owned by Vincent Hoey, Chris Byrne and Eugene O'Connor.
At the end of the season they will be owned by the revenue and the banks, apparently;)
And the club hasn't been owned by a fan in years and years. Only Andy O'Callaghan would be considered a Pats fan before he invested.
Don't quite understand what you mean Dodge, what then qualifies a person to be a "fan" of their club? Gerry Mulvey was a 500 Club member, came to practically every game with his wife and kids and set up and ran the forecast coupon before he ever invested a cent into shares. Maybe he's not on the scene as long as some of us but to me that still qualifies him as a supporter of the club before he invested.
I don't exactly know Tim O'Flaherty's background before he invested but I'm pretty sure he was supporting the club for years before he put his and his company's money in.
Before that a group of supporters (Phil Mooney, Tom McGibney, Richard Black, Ray Barry, Paul Garrigan and a few others) put their own money in to rescue the club from liquidation and get us back to Richmond Park.
As far as I can see the club has alwasy been under the control of supporters until GK took over.
Yeah, you're right. I just have a particularly jaundiced view of various boards in the past ten years. I appreciate I was being unkind to most of them, at least when they started their heart was in the right place. BTW John Doran's crowd were definitely NOT fans when they took over in 1991 (from which the group above (and several others including Brian Kerr) saved us)
sonofstan
19/09/2007, 5:06 PM
As a matter of interest- what are the prerequisites to be a member of the members clubs- what's the yearly fee and can anyone at all join?
At Bohs you have to proposed and seconded by existing members in good standing and pay a yearly sub (a little more than the cost of a season ticket)- after three years continuous membership you can stand for office. Don't know what it's like elsewhere.
Yeah, you're right. I just have a particularly jaundiced view of various boards in the past ten years. I appreciate I was being unkind to most of them, at least when they started their heart was in the right place.
Agreed, think we've all been jaundiced by the various things that have happened over the years, we keep going back though ;)
BTW John Doran's crowd were definitely NOT fans when they took over in 1991 (from which the group above (and several others including Brian Kerr) saved us)
Was never sure of the motives of Doran and crew, all seemed a little strange at the time. While I wholeheartedly agree that Kerr helped to save us by his work both on and off the pitch (and arguably is doing so again by being the key that unlocked the Kelleher deal), I find it interesting how the myth surfaced about him remortgaging his house to put money into the club. I still hear it doing the rounds every now and then.
bohsmug
19/09/2007, 6:39 PM
At Bohs you have to proposed and seconded by existing members in good standing and pay a yearly sub (a little more than the cost of a season ticket)- after three years continuous membership you can stand for office. Don't know what it's like elsewhere.
Also your application form is put up on a notice board for a short period of time (2 weeks?) so that if anyone has any objections to you becoming a member they have the opportuntity.
The fans own Derry City, we are not privately owned
dcfc_1928
19/09/2007, 7:44 PM
No we don't. The reality is that Wellvan Enterprises Limited "own" Derry City FC.
Wellvan Enterprises is a "Private company limited by shares". The major shareholders are two individuals - Philip O'Doherty and Paul Diamond.
Only a fraction of the club's support are shareholders in Wellvan/DCFC.
It's a romantic notion, but its untrue. DCFC is not owned by the fans.
The fans own Derry City, we are not privately owned
So basically Paul Diamond and Philip O'Doherty own the club? Isnt Philip also involved in Brandywell Properties?
onceahoop
19/09/2007, 9:03 PM
Also your application form is put up on a notice board for a short period of time (2 weeks?) so that if anyone has any objections to you becoming a member they have the opportuntity.
That's a pre-requisite of any application for membership of a club. Mostly ignored by a lot of clubs in my opinion. My own club nearly paid the price for it once.
MariborKev
19/09/2007, 9:13 PM
So basically Paul Diamond and Philip O'Doherty own the club? Isnt Philip also involved in Brandywell Properties?
Yes and yes.
AFAIK the club has A shares and B shares. PD and POD own something over 90% of the A shares and therefore own the club.
The board of directors run the club, but they basically don't have any ownership stake.
Them 2 are worth a few pound, do they invest much into the club or do we only bring in money from our own making? You learn something new everyday.:)
gael353
19/09/2007, 10:22 PM
I think.....Limerick 37 is made up of a 40/60% or 60/40% share issue. The LDMC (Junior) schoolboy leagues, ladies hae shares not exceeding 20% each. The rest is made up of private investment again not exceeding 20% to any one group
sonofstan
19/09/2007, 10:32 PM
Also your application form is put up on a notice board for a short period of time (2 weeks?) so that if anyone has any objections to you becoming a member they have the opportuntity.
I'm always tempted to object on grounds like 'we've too many red-headed members already' or 'he's not from round here' or something...
Dr.Nightdub
20/09/2007, 12:33 AM
its owned by a holding company of which Mr Kelleher and his wife are sole directors and share holders. Its kept seperate from Shelbourne Developments.
Mancar Ltd. now own Newtonheath Ltd who trade as Pats
Longford Town Private Owner / PLC
Members club, with elected committee, although in practice controlled by whoever's pumping in the money.
Yes and yes.
AFAIK the club has A shares and B shares. PD and POD own something over 90% of the A shares and therefore own the club.
The board of directors run the club, but they basically don't have any ownership stake.
Interesting, I always wondered how Derry were actually set up. Obviously they have a lot of fan involvement onto the board or various sub committees, but at the end of the day the appointment of directors is down to the tow main owners?
Members club, with elected committee, although in practice controlled by whoever's pumping in the money.
I never knew LTFC were a members club. How does one beocme a member there? Is it a subscription thing as well or does it involve putting up a lump of money?
Hows this then?
Any more info?
CLUB OWNERSHIP LEGAL STATUS/DETAILS
Drogheda Utd Private Owners Ltd Company (Vincent Hoey, Chris Byrne and Eugene O'Connor)
Shamrock Rvs Members Club Monthly Fee, Members Elect Board
St Pats Ath Private Owner Ltd Company (Gerry Kelleher)
Cork City Private Owner Ltd Company (Arkaga Investment Fund)
Sligo Rovers Co-operative
Bohemians Members Club Members pay annual fee. Members propsoed by existing members. Board elected from members of 3 years standing.
Derry City Private Owner Ltd Company (Wellvan Enterprises - Philip O'Doherty and Paul Diamond)
UCD College Club
Galway United Private Owner Ltd Company (30% owned by Galway & District League)
Bray Wanderers Private Owner Ltd Company
Waterford Utd Privately Owned PLC (don't know what the story is with shareholders - is it one or two main ones or is it fan owned)
Longford Town Private Partnership
Cobh Ramblers Members Club
Finn Harps Co-operative 500+ shareholders. Board elected annually at AGM
Dundalk Private Owner Ltd Company (Gerry Matthews)
Limerick 37 Private Owner Ltd Company (40% owned by Junior Leagues, max investment = 20%)
Shelbourne Private Owner Ltd Company (Accolade Ltd - Byrne Family)
Monaghan Utd ??
Athlone Town Private Partnership
Kildare County Private Owner Ltd Company
Wexford Youths Private Owner Ltd Company (Mick Wallace)
Kilkenny City Private Owner Ltd Company
MariborKev
20/09/2007, 1:33 PM
Interesting, I always wondered how Derry were actually set up. Obviously they have a lot of fan involvement onto the board or various sub committees, but at the end of the day the appointment of directors is down to the tow main owners?
T,
I am not 100% certain, ORA would be the man with the info.
I believe that A shareholders hold the right to have x amount of their appointments on the board, but have never taken up this option. The current board was elected by the B shareholders AFAIK, without the A shareholders appointing anyone.
AFAIK Diamond and JR had a fallout and Diamond hasn't been involved since then. Paul and Mary are season ticket holders and are at every home game, but they have no involvement in the club as far as I'm aware. POD hadn't been the the Brandywell in years, but has become involved with the stadium redevelopment and has been back for a few games
Red Youth
20/09/2007, 2:15 PM
Wexford Youths FC owned and managed by the one and only, Mick Wallace
Philly
20/09/2007, 9:38 PM
"Kildare County Football Club Limited is a company limited by guarantee and with no share capital."
Board members and other details here: http://kildarecountyfc.com/aboutus/index.asp
kdjaC
20/09/2007, 10:30 PM
I find it interesting how the myth surfaced about him remortgaging his house to put money into the club. I still hear it doing the rounds every now and then.
Eh thats true :o
His remortage financed the payment owed to get us back to richer. a shocking 20 grand, wonder how much his gaff is worth now :p
kdjac
LeixlipRed
20/09/2007, 10:31 PM
My own club nearly paid the price for it once.
Was that the time Dr. Evil tried to join?? :D
Vitruvian Man
21/09/2007, 11:42 AM
There's a shocking number of property "players" involved with EL clubs.
There's a shocking number of property "players" involved with EL clubs.
That was part of the reason for my original curiosity.
Makes the EL quite exposed if the predicted property crash does occur. What happens to DrogTown then?
Saint MacDara
21/09/2007, 3:58 PM
Dont think its really surprising the investment from property developers as every second person and their granny seems to be making a bundle from real estate.
And the prospect of a property price crash,well football clubs will be the least of our worries then.
dcfcsteve
21/09/2007, 4:37 PM
Yes and yes.
AFAIK the club has A shares and B shares. PD and POD own something over 90% of the A shares and therefore own the club.
The board of directors run the club, but they basically don't have any ownership stake.
There was discussion about A and B class shares a few years back, with the aim of making share ownership more accessible to the fans (current cost of an A share is £250). I'm fairly sure that the conclusion of that process was a declaration by the club that it couldn't issue B Shares (though in my limited understanding of these things, I can't see why they could'nt myself).
I bought an 'A Share' 2 years ago, as thatv wa sthe only one I was told was available. I got share certificate Number 13. Assuming they didn't just skip back and forward between numbers for fun (the number is embossed) that seems to suggest we have very few individuals and/or purchase occassions of shares. Needless to say, my influenxce with that single share is negligible (particularly as we don't seem to have had an AGM in 18mths or so, which is naughty...).
Eh thats true :o
His remortage financed the payment owed to get us back to richer. a shocking 20 grand, wonder how much his gaff is worth now :p
kdjac
So it was you who started the rumour!!!
It's an urban myth. When the most recent board were tidying up loans and share issues Kerr himself confirmed in writing that he had put in £2,000 around 1991 or 1992. They converted that amount to shares for him, check the Companies Registration Office if you doubt it.
dcfc_1928
21/09/2007, 7:38 PM
The initial issue of shares - according to the documents lodged with Companies House - was 129 x Class A (£250) shares & 20 x Class B (£2500) shares.
The document is dated May 16th 1995.
There was discussion about A and B class shares a few years back, with the aim of making share ownership more accessible to the fans (current cost of an A share is £250). I'm fairly sure that the conclusion of that process was a declaration by the club that it couldn't issue B Shares (though in my limited understanding of these things, I can't see why they could'nt myself).
I bought an 'A Share' 2 years ago, as thatv wa sthe only one I was told was available. I got share certificate Number 13. Assuming they didn't just skip back and forward between numbers for fun (the number is embossed) that seems to suggest we have very few individuals and/or purchase occassions of shares. Needless to say, my influenxce with that single share is negligible (particularly as we don't seem to have had an AGM in 18mths or so, which is naughty...).
dcfcsteve
22/09/2007, 2:36 AM
The initial issue of shares - according to the documents lodged with Companies House - was 129 x Class A (£250) shares & 20 x Class B (£2500) shares.
The document is dated May 16th 1995.
But which company is that ?
Didn't DCFC in that guise go bust in c. 2000 - to be replaced by Wellvan Enterprises (sh!t name) which would make any company rules that existed in 1995 irrelevant re the current ownership ?
dcfcsteve
22/09/2007, 2:41 AM
Makes the EL quite exposed if the predicted property crash does occur. What happens to DrogTown then?
Don't believe the hype re any predicted property 'crash' (define crash....).
The only people who will really suffer are those forced to sell/liquidise property assets during any 'crash'/downturn. Sensible property investors would love a crash, as it presents an opportunity to buy further assets at a reduced price versus now.
Property downturns/crashes never last.....
Celdrog
22/09/2007, 10:01 AM
Makes the EL quite exposed if the predicted property crash does occur. What happens to DrogTown then?
Contrary to popular belief there are no houses associated with the planning application submitted. Stadium, retail, leisure, service station but not one single house.
dcfc_1928
22/09/2007, 11:03 AM
Steve
That document relates to Wellvan Enterprises Limited (NI28477)
Niall
But which company is that ?
Didn't DCFC in that guise go bust in c. 2000 - to be replaced by Wellvan Enterprises (sh!t name) which would make any company rules that existed in 1995 irrelevant re the current ownership ?
gilberto_eire
09/07/2009, 4:18 PM
Didn't think it warranted a new thread and this was the closest comparison i found in the search...
Connacht Tribune is meant to be running with a front page headline about a couple of Manchester business men who are interested in taking over the club, they came up before about a year ago, they remarked at the time how they wanted to use the club as a launch pad for talanted eastern european players into the english/european market.
Good or bad?, i don't know but if there of any decent standard and it makes us competitive i'm all for it
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