Ray Tracey on Drivetime Sport

[MyTown]

Anyone hear Ray Tracey on Radio 1 last night?

He spoke of his career with West Brom, Swindon and Charlton.

He spoke of the decision of Johnny Giles, himself and Eamon Dunphy to come “home” to make Shamrock Rovers a force to be reckoned with once again in the League of Ireland.

What struck me about the interview is that Giles left West Brom having finished 5th. in what would be now the Premier League to come home and take over in Milltown. Now fair enough, there were probably family reasons, but does it not appear to anyone as a huge step down, particularly given the fact that their time at Rovers was not a very happy one?

Tracey also spoke of himself as being a very limited footballer, making a career out of his aeriel ability alone. From my recollections he was a brilliant servant in the green shirt and himself and Don Givens were an excellent partnership up front – loads of passion and graft in a pre-Charlton era – and no shortage of skill either.

He told of his only goal for Shamrock Rovers (what happened? did he fall out with Giles / Dunphy? Or did injury finish him off?) – a penalty in a cup semi-final against Sligo. He said the Sligo supporters may have been justified in feeling that it was a lousy decision, made by a blatantly biased ref (John Carpenter), but that he was subjected to years of hatred from Sligo “supporters” ever after , when his only act in the whole drama was to stick the pen away. He said all subsequent visits to Sligo by him were welcomed in a hail of spit – so anyone who thinks standards of fan behaviour are slipping, might like to think again after that.:D

If you’re interested enough you can catch the interview here (http://www.rte.ie/radio1/drivetimesport/)

[DvB]

He told of his only goal for Shamrock Rovers (what happened? did he fall out with Giles / Dunphy? Or did injury finish him off?) – a penalty in a cup semi-final against Sligo. He said the Sligo supporters may have been justified in feeling that it was a lousy decision, made by a blatantly biased ref (John Carpenter), but that he was subjected to years of hatred from Sligo “supporters” ever after , when his only act in the whole drama was to stick the pen away. He said all subsequent visits to Sligo by him were welcomed in a hail of spit – so anyone who thinks standards of fan behaviour are slipping, might like to think again after that.:D

here (http://www.rte.ie/radio1/drivetimesport/)

That was actually the 1978 FAI cup final, not semi final.

Koh

[drummerboy]

I remember, I was there. Dreadful day, dreadful match.

[NY Hoop]

They had a dream, led by Giles, to turn Rovers into European contenders. Giles did bring a new professional thinking to the club but other clubs couldnt be arsed stepping up. He was way ahead of his time. Experiment never worked out for a multitude of reasons that I'm sure older Hoops here will point out.

Hardly think it was a huge step down.

Treacy's penalty against sligo was in the 1978 FAI Cup Final. Incidentally it was the only medal Dummy ever won although rtengland should give him a medal for the trail of verbal diarrhoea that he comes out but I digress!

My memory of Treacy is of a manager who wanted his team to play ball and to cut back on the silly money that was in the game in his time at Rovers. He succeeded on both counts.

The other side of the coin was that he didnt give a flying fcuk about the fans and the disgraceful defeat in Poland was the beginning of the end for him though. And he also played his future son in law who was one of the worst players I ever saw.


KOH

[red bellied]

It was the 1978 FAI Cup Final. The old dressing rooms used to be situated behind the Shed in the Showgrounds and Treacy would have to pass here to get in and out. Treacy was manager of Shams in the nineties so the abuse probably occurred then.

[Tenderloins]

As far as I remember in 1978, Rovers went fulll time with the aim of winning the league and doing very well in Europe. It was actually very ambitious of Giles to take the helm at Rovers as there was an awful lot of pressure to do well.
At the time though 5th in the then English Division 1 would not have qualified you for Europe. Champions got into the European cup, 2nd and 3rd in the League the UEFA cup and cup winners into the Cup Winners cup. SO it may well have been making Rovers into a Eurpean force that was one of the reasons Giles moved.

[jebus]

It was a step down by Giles alright, but not a huge one by any means when you consider how popular Rovers and the league itself was back in the late 70s-early 80s. I can see why Giles and Dunphy felt they could turn Rovers into European contenders back then

[Tenderloins]

Doubt Giles would have had to take a drop in wages either.

[Dalymountrower]

It was a step down by Giles alright, but not a huge one by any means when you consider how popular Rovers and the league itself was back in the late 70s-early 80s. I can see why Giles and Dunphy felt they could turn Rovers into European contenders back then

The crowds were uniformly crap back then apart from the big Dublin Derbies and the Cork Celtic/ Hibs derby.
Giles and Co gambled all of someone elses money on a Europe or bust strategy. Given that they didn`t win the league that torpedoed the European Cup dream. They didn`t get the plumb draw in the ECWC (Banik Ostrava ?) Giles huffed that the other clubs in the league wouldnt go full time and wouldn`t do the decent thing and let his Rovers team win the league, the`other clubs reckoned they could win trophies on a part time basis.
So end of dream, but the legacy of spend spend spend lived on and as the four in a row team lifted their silverware in a near empty Milltown, it was only a matter of time before Kilcoyne pulled the plug to recover some of his investment. No different than Shels really.

[jebus]

The crowds were uniformly crap back then apart from the big Dublin Derbies and the Cork Celtic/ Hibs derby.

Not true at all, there used to be large crowds at Limerick games back then, Dundalk used to also get very large crowds I'm told, as I am about Waterford as well

[Stuttgart88]

Was it definitely his only goal for Rovers?

My first ever live game was Rovers vs Sligo at Milltown, Rovers winning 2-1 and I could have sworn Treacy scored at least one, a diving header into the Milltown Road end goal.

I was a very young aspiring goalie (ok, I was crap outfield and wanted to play so was stuck in goals) at the time and the keepers that day were Alan O'Neill and Alan Patterson.

[Dodge]

Did Tracey not mention his plan (when still ROvers manager) to forma new club and get them into the Scottish 2nd division?

That'll be my abiding memory

[Billy Lord]

Giles and Co gambled all of someone elses money on a Europe or bust strategy. Given that they didn`t win the league that torpedoed the European Cup dream. They didn`t get the plumb draw in the ECWC (Banik Ostrava ?) Giles huffed that the other clubs in the league wouldnt go full time and wouldn`t do the decent thing and let his Rovers team win the league, the`other clubs reckoned they could win trophies on a part time basis.
So end of dream, but the legacy of spend spend spend lived on and as the four in a row team lifted their silverware in a near empty Milltown, it was only a matter of time before Kilcoyne pulled the plug to recover some of his investment. No different than Shels really.

A totally unbiased view there, full of insight and not an ounce of wild conjecture.:rolleyes:

[Calcio Jack]

Didn't hear him.... to clear this up I suspect he was refering to his most infamous goal for Rovers rather than his only goal, as he scored lots of goals for us... including a late equaliser in the cup qtr finals in Milltown against Finn Harps.

Re Giles coming back he had a dream and fair play to him for trying to pursue it...despite all the begrudgers who couldn't wait to se him fail... also he was married to Kilcoynes sister so there was a strong family conection.

As for Dunphy playing for ...he wasn't bad and when we played St Pats who had Gordon Banks guesting for them he struck a shot that brought a save from Banks that to this day I haven't seen bettered.

[geysir]

Is it my false memory or did Banks play with only one good eye in that game when he made that save?

[onceahoop]

He packed in West Brom because he alleged that Directors over there were ruining the game (something like that anyway). At the time they took over Rovers had dropped to botom of the League

"I want to see Irish Football standing on it's own feet, to set standards to be followed by others, rather than for us to be led. We should not wory about England but set our own standards at League and International level. We must entice young boys to stay at home and create something worthwhile here."

John Giles quoted in "Who Stole Our Game". If you have the book go to Page 92 and read on.

[Stuttgart88]

"I want to see Irish Football standing on it's own feet, to set standards to be followed by others, rather than for us to be led. We should not worry about England but set our own standards at League and International level. We must entice young boys to stay at home and create something worthwhile here."

God, if only his modern day equivalents thought the same, with the wealth they have accumulated.

[dcfcsteve]

As for Dunphy playing for ...he wasn't bad and when we played St Pats who had Gordon Banks guesting for them he struck a shot that brought a save from Banks that to this day I haven't seen bettered.

When was Banks at Pats CJ ?

[Dodge]

When was Banks at Pats CJ ?

Late seventies. Only played a couple of games. And yeah, he had alredy "retired" due to his eye injury. Pats fans who witnessed it have always said his save v Rovers was the best they've ever seen (far better than his save from Pele's header!)

[joeSoap]

They had a dream, led by Giles, to turn Rovers into European contenders. Giles did bring a new professional thinking to the club but other clubs couldnt be arsed stepping up. He was way ahead of his time. Experiment never worked out for a multitude of reasons that I'm sure older Hoops here will point out.

Hardly think it was a huge step down.

Treacy's penalty against sligo was in the 1978 FAI Cup Final. Incidentally it was the only medal Dummy ever won although rtengland should give him a medal for the trail of verbal diarrhoea that he comes out but I digress!

My memory of Treacy is of a manager who wanted his team to play ball and to cut back on the silly money that was in the game in his time at Rovers. He succeeded on both counts.

The other side of the coin was that he didnt give a flying fcuk about the fans and the disgraceful defeat in Poland was the beginning of the end for him though. And he also played his future son in law who was one of the worst players I ever saw.


KOHWho's his son-in-law??

[dcfcsteve]

What struck me about the interview is that Giles left West Brom having finished 5th. in what would be now the Premier League to come home and take over in Milltown. Now fair enough, there were probably family reasons, but does it not appear to anyone as a huge step down, particularly given the fact that their time at Rovers was not a very happy one?

Not as big a step-down as it might seem MyTown.

Firstly - the gulf between ourselves and England wasn't anywhere near as big in the 1970's as it is now. Irish teams were competing with top English and Scottish First Division sides in the Texaco Cup at the start of the 70's, for example, and that was only halted by the Troubles. The fact the likes of WBA were able to do well in that era also shows how the financial gap hadn't opened yet. It wasn't until the 80's that crowds went abysmal in Ireland (Cup Final crowds regularly below 10,000 for the first time, for example) - possibly because RTE/Network 2 started showing English games live. So it wasn't the huge step-down for Giles that it might at first have seemed.

Secondly - the fact that their time at Rovers was unhappy can't be brought into the equation, as they obviously had no expectation it would go so wrong for them.

[monutdfc]

John Giles quoted in "Who Stole Our Game". If you have the book go to Page 92 and read on.
Read the book and it was low on detail as to the whole "Shamrock Rovers Experiment". Said that Giles was bitter baouot the whole affair but did not explain why it failed or what he was bitter about.

[NY Hoop]

A totally unbiased view there, full of insight and not an ounce of wild conjecture.:rolleyes:

LOL! Dont forget the smell of bitterness.

Treacy did try and promote getting a club into the scottish second alright but think it was after he got sacked at the RDS.

To this day Giles never ever mentions Shamrock Rovers despite his two sons going on to play for the club. His brother in law's son also played for Rovers.

KOH

[Dalymountrower]

A totally unbiased view there, full of insight and not an ounce of wild conjecture.:rolleyes:

Apart from a bit of tongue in cheek about Giles expecting other clubs to lay down and present him with the league I would have thought that it is as unbiased a commentary that I can make through a red and black prism.:) Anyway BL you were there at the time ,as was I , and Giles was gutted by the lack of relative domestic success and the poor crowds, the 6-1 defeat by Ostrava was a low point. (Didn`t he get upset by the reaction to his son Michael playing too or was that later?).
Ironically if an equivalent Irish player of Giles`s international reputation were to throw in their lot with an EL club today it would really kick the league forward. Back then there was a minimum of ambition, now with clubs like Bohs, cork and Pats(who knew!) with money behind them (or in front of them,) a Giles like intervention with Rovers or Derry , Dundalk ( go on Stan!) or Drogs could result in an ambitious competitive league.

BTW Wasn`t it Seanan o Duachain who was connected to Treacys daughter?

[Dalymountrower]

[QUOTE=dcfcsteve;771140]Not as big a step-down as it might seem MyTown.

It wasn't until the 80's that crowds went abysmal in Ireland

QUOTE]



Can anybody else who attended Lof I matches in the 70`s set the record straight on this?. Lwtv`s The Big Match destroyed Sunday afternoon crowds in the `70`s, there were only 2/3 grounds with functioning floodlights at the time, so night games were not an option. Drums final season had a couple of hundred at games, ditto Shels in the late 70`s
Cup final crowds were the exception ( though Shels v Home FARM Final only had a crowd of 10,000 ;2-3,000 following Shels and every Lof I fan in Dublin supporting Home Farm for the day. Home Farms ECWC game v Racing Cub Paris had about 1,500 at it.
Not that this is now a golden era or anything but it`s a lot better than it was in the `7o `s and early 80`s

[red bellied]

Shamrock Rovers were always the darlings of the Dublin press which made a victory over the hoops all the sweeter. On this occassion the club was being re-shaped. Johnny Giles had returned from England and was given the brief of turning Shams into one of the top teams in Europe. The club became a full-time professional outfit and Giles recruited seasoned international players such as Ray Treacy and Eamonn Dunphy to help achieve his aims. On a rain sodden Sunday afternoon Giles' team was outplayed by the men from the north-west only to be defeated by the worst piece of refereeing witnessed by any Rovers fan. The name of John Carpenter is infamous among Rovers fans for his display in this game. With three minutes of injury time played in the first half Shams winger Steve Lynex ran into the box with Rovers full-back Paul Fielding sheperding him towards the line. With little or no contact Lynex went down and Mr. Carpenter pointed to the spot. Ray Treacy converted the penalty.

In the second half Rovers pushed forward looking for an equaliser. On two occasions Gary Hulmes was clear through put couldn't finish. Shams keeper Alan O'Neill produced an excellent display of goalkeeping to deny Rovers time and again. Shams held on for victory and for Rovers this was the bitterest pill of all. The penalty decision itself was a disgrace but this was only half the story. No trainer had been on the pitch in the first half. To add insult to injury Mr. Carpenter explained that the three minutes injury time was added on for time-wasting by Shamrock Rovers !! It later transpired that the referee had taken the pitch without his referee's card and he was disqualified as a result. Visits to the Showgrounds became even more uncomfortable for Giles and his men after this game.

http://homepage.tinet.ie/~sjgarvey/History/rovhist3.htm#holy_grail

[Calcio Jack]

[QUOTE=dcfcsteve;771140]Not as big a step-down as it might seem MyTown.

It wasn't until the 80's that crowds went abysmal in Ireland

QUOTE]



Can anybody else who attended Lof I matches in the 70`s set the record straight on this?. Lwtv`s The Big Match destroyed Sunday afternoon crowds in the `70`s, there were only 2/3 grounds with functioning floodlights at the time, so night games were not an option. Drums final season had a couple of hundred at games, ditto Shels in the late 70`s
Cup final crowds were the exception ( though Shels v Home FARM Final only had a crowd of 10,000 ;2-3,000 following Shels and every Lof I fan in Dublin supporting Home Farm for the day. Home Farms ECWC game v Racing Cub Paris had about 1,500 at it.
Not that this is now a golden era or anything but it`s a lot better than it was in the `7o `s and early 80`s

To set a couple of matters straight:

1. Banks played for St.Pats during 1977/78 (same season as when Giles returned)

2.Rovers ie Shamrock Rovers were the better side in the '78 final and would of won anyway, plus it was IMO a clear penalty...but hey you got your revenge this year.

3. The crowds were falling off from the start of the 1970's. I atended a Rovers game against Athlone town in 1974 and there were 67 at it....yes you read that correctly.So the serious dowward trend commencedduring the 70's.I was also at the Home Farm ECWC match you mentioned and indeed the crowd was crap

4. All the other teams especially the culchies loved to beat Rovers during the Giles era (nothing much has changed)... for our first league game away under him approx 4,000 turned up at Oriel park (we drew 1-1 Leech scored ours).

5.I don't think Giles was particularily bitter...and he did bring on a number of youg players who went on to have great careers... Jim Beglin, Liam Buckley (save you breath Shels fans), Alan O'Neill , ritchie Bayly and that all time great Pierce O'Leary

[Billy Lord]

The crowds disappeared almost overnight in the early 1970s, thanks largely (in Dublin) to The Big Match, Rovers sliding into obscurity, Drums folding, and the Dubs' revival.
One point, though. The attendances weren't always that good. Sure, you'd get 15-20,000 and more for big games, but at Rovers (for example) there was always plenty of bare terracing at other games. 5-6,000 was the norm.
I remember being at Milltown in 1971 when 22,000 saw us play Cork Hibs, 28,000 were at the play-off between the two clubs that April and - as Calcio Jack points out - by the time we played Athlone on Grand National Day 1977 the attendance was tiny. I was there too. Ironically, that was Rovers' last home game before Giles arrived.
Giles spent a lot of his own money on Rovers and his efforts - even though they ended in failure - have to be applauded. It was a very brave move at the worst possible time, and he gave it six years before jacking it in.
His legacy was a good chunk of the four-in-a-row team: Liam Buckley, Alan Campbell, Harry Kenny, Peter Eccles and John Coady all came through during his reign. So it wasn't all in vain.
Honestly, I can't understand why he wasn't more successful, although the initial plans (making a breakthrough in Europe, turning Milltown into a 50,000-capacity stadium) were overly ambitious; he seemed to want to run before learning to crawl.
Rovers had a full-time set-up, educational opportunities for young players, and there were some pretty good players there - but the attitude around the league at the time was 'who does this jumped-up little fcuker think he is?' I'd no problem with that - it doesn't matter what other people think, especially if they're idiots, just do what you believe in and ignore the cynics and fools - but I feel Giles had a desire to be appreciated, which wasn't possible in the dark days of the 1970s, when any sign ambition in Ireland was frowned upon.
And yes, SOD went out with Ray's daughter. The poor guy got lashed out of it!

[seand]

Just regarding Giles the manager at Rovers, is it just possible that Jim McLaughlin was a better manager! ;)

[monutdfc]

Lwtv`s The Big Match destroyed Sunday afternoon crowds in the `70`s, there were only 2/3 grounds with functioning floodlights at the time, so night games were not an option.
To set the record straight on this, and my biggest gripe about the "Who Stole Our Game" book, "The Big Match" was a highlights show for most of its life, a poor man's Match of the Day and I'm pretty sure it was on around 12 or 1pm. It only showed live games from 1983 onwards, and even then not every Sunday. Form Wikipedia (ok, not the most reliable but correct in this case):

The demand for football grew through the 1970s and early 1980s, and the decision to start screening live league matches was almost inevitable; a deal was struck for the start of the 1983-84 season and the first live league match since 1960 was screened on ITV, between Tottenham Hotspur and Nottingham Forest, on October 2, 1983.

[dcfcsteve]

My uncle got thrown out of the Dail because of this.

Because of what ? :confused:

This thread....!? :eek: ;)

[Mr A]

On the crowds in the 70's- would it not be the case that crowds in Dublin were crap, but at the Regional clubs were very good?

[onceahoop]

The crowds disappeared almost overnight in the early 1970s, thanks largely (in Dublin) to The Big Match, Rovers sliding into obscurity, Drums folding, and the Dubs' revival.
One point, though. The attendances weren't always that good. Sure, you'd get 15-20,000 and more for big games, but at Rovers (for example) there was always plenty of bare terracing at other games. 5-6,000 was the norm.
I remember being at Milltown in 1971 when 22,000 saw us play Cork Hibs, 28,000 were at the play-off between the two clubs that April and - as Calcio Jack points out - by the time we played Athlone on Grand National Day 1977 the attendance was tiny. I was there too. Ironically, that was Rovers' last home game before Giles arrived.
Giles spent a lot of his own money on Rovers and his efforts - even though they ended in failure - have to be applauded. It was a very brave move at the worst possible time, and he gave it six years before jacking it in.
His legacy was a good chunk of the four-in-a-row team: Liam Buckley, Alan Campbell, Harry Kenny, Peter Eccles and John Coady all came through during his reign. So it wasn't all in vain.
Honestly, I can't understand why he wasn't more successful, although the initial plans (making a breakthrough in Europe, turning Milltown into a 50,000-capacity stadium) were overly ambitious; he seemed to want to run before learning to crawl.
Rovers had a full-time set-up, educational opportunities for young players, and there were some pretty good players there - but the attitude around the league at the time was 'who does this jumped-up little fcuker think he is?' I'd no problem with that - it doesn't matter what other people think, especially if they're idiots, just do what you believe in and ignore the cynics and fools - but I feel Giles had a desire to be appreciated, which wasn't possible in the dark days of the 1970s, when any sign ambition in Ireland was frowned upon.
And yes, SOD went out with Ray's daughter. The poor guy got lashed out of it!

I was there also Billy in 1971,(Moved down to the country in 75 to 77), On the Miltown Road end. Waterford, Cork Hibs/Cork Celtic and Shels were the big attractions then. You needed to be in the ground about two hours before kick off to be able to see those games.

Dunphy is quoted in the book as saying that players greed drove him out. They were putting in for fictitious overtime losses from work etc. I seem to remember sometime in the late seventies there appeared to be a standard signing on fee of €3000. Think Fran Gavin picked up a few of them.

The Big match was shown in the afternoon if I remember rightly, about 3pm. Attendances really dropped dramatically then.

I think you're right when you say it was a brave move but at the wrong time and he left a great legacy for Jim McLoughlin.

I wonder will we ever see crowds like it again.
"Those were the days my friend, we thought they'd never end."

They said Milltown could hold 24,000. I can see it know as I write. I've got the shivers just thinking about it. What a waste.

[Billy Lord]

To set the record straight on this, and my biggest gripe about the "Who Stole Our Game" book, "The Big Match" was a highlights show for most of its life, a poor man's Match of the Day and I'm pretty sure it was on around 12 or 1pm. It only showed live games from 1983 onwards, and even then not every Sunday. Form Wikipedia (ok, not the most reliable but correct in this case):

What was then called 'piped TV' (ie: cable) arrived circa 1971, and it meant that The Big Match quickly became a staple of Sunday afternoon viewing. The programme was around long before 1983.
Poor man's MOTD maybe, but it was football in your sitting room, as opposed to going out to Milltown or Tolka. Anyone under 40 has no idea of how much of an impact that had. It was like Elvis performing his greatest hits in your gaff - so why bother going out to see the local bands?

[Billy Lord]

On the crowds in the 70's- would it not be the case that crowds in Dublin were crap, but at the Regional clubs were very good?

Nah. All clubs enjoyed fluctuating attendances, and it remains today and in other sports. It seems to be an Irish thing that most people only want to go to 'big' games - look at inter-county GAA attendances: 1,000 one week, 30-60,000 the next. Leinster need three stadiums because their fans pick and choose their games, and their crowds go from a few thousand to a full Lansdowne Road.
English football fans are amazingly loyal; thy love going every week, regardless. Respect. That's what supporting a club is all about.
We're a terribly fickle bunch. Insecurity rather than devotion still drives us as a sporting nation.

[Bucky-O'Hare]

They said Milltown could hold 24,000. I can see it know as I write. I've got the shivers just thinking about it. What a waste.

24,000 at a League of Ireland game. I can only imagine it! That sounds like heaven! I hope it happens again because I want to experience it!

[dcfcsteve]

24,000 at a League of Ireland game. I can only imagine it! That sounds like heaven! I hope it happens again because I want to experience it!

I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see those type of crowds for literally decades. The simple reason being that there is no stadium capable of hosting such attendances, and none are planned or considered necessary by even our most ambitious and best supported clubs.

Luckily I have the memory of the early Derry City years in the mid-to-late 1980's to keep the aul' memory bank happy. 10,000 full-house at every home game, 3-4,000 at every away game (depending on the opposition and location) - bigger crowds for cup games and finals. Magical days that no EL club will see again for some time, let alone crowds of 25,000 for league games.

[micls]

I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see those type of crowds for literally decades. The simple reason being that there is no stadium capable of hosting such attendances, and none are planned or considered necessary by even our most ambitious and best supported clubs.

Our new owners want a 28-30,000 seater. Looking for a site but how long it will take and whether it will come to fruition or not is another thing.

Still its ambitious

[dcfcsteve]

Our new owners want a 28-30,000 seater. Looking for a site but how long it will take and whether it will come to fruition or not is another thing.

Still its ambitious

Any money you like that there won't be a dedicated Cork City stadium of that size in the next decade (if not for many more decades after) !

Sure munster rugby don't even have anywhere near that...!

[bennocelt]

To set the record straight on this, and my biggest gripe about the "Who Stole Our Game" book, "The Big Match" was a highlights show for most of its life, a poor man's Match of the Day and I'm pretty sure it was on around 12 or 1pm. It only showed live games from 1983 onwards, and even then not every Sunday. Form Wikipedia (ok, not the most reliable but correct in this case):

I dont think so, i thought it was a decent enough programme at the time, it did exactly what it said on the tin.........live football
MOTD is rubbish compared to it...............

i remember when The Big Match was on the box................every young fella was glued to it................so i can imagine it must have had a terrible effect on the LOI

does anyone know at about what time did people start travelling en masse to British clubs................surely the prices of cheap airlines tickets also had a huge influence on the attendances at LOI games

[passerrby]

ray tracey travel

[geysir]

I dont think so, i thought it was a decent enough programme at the time, it did exactly what it said on the tin.........live football
MOTD is rubbish compared to it...............

i remember when The Big Match was on the box................every young fella was glued to it................so i can imagine it must have had a terrible effect on the LOI

does anyone know at about what time did people start travelling en masse to British clubs................surely the prices of cheap airlines tickets also had a huge influence on the attendances at LOI games

It´s all a bit fuzzy in my head, I remember the Ferries were offering packages in the early 70´s and reports of loads of people travelling over. Duty free as well.
In the very early 70´s I went to secondary school in Dublin, most kids were following English football, Leeds. I was about the only one who went to LOI.
Billy Lord has given a good account. Though I would have compared the LOI to English 3rd division, with quality and the pattern of fluctuating attendances
There was talk about changing the kick off times on Sunday to avoid clashes. The live match on ITV was a killer blow not the package tours to English football.
Before then 1970 or thereabout I remember things like the Presidents Cup played on Stephens Day attracting 15 - 20,000. The League Cup, a pre season warm up competition, some games attracting thousands.
The Indo would have 2 full pages on Match reports, Evening Press back page banner headlines on the big games. RTE had a highlights programme on Sunday night. Even Phil Greene had fame.

[Bucky-O'Hare]

Luckily I have the memory of the early Derry City years in the mid-to-late 1980's to keep the aul' memory bank happy. 10,000 full-house at every home game, 3-4,000 at every away game (depending on the opposition and location) - bigger crowds for cup games and finals. Magical days that no EL club will see again for some time, let alone crowds of 25,000 for league games.

I have flashbacks but no meaningful memories of being an infant in a packed out jungle in the late eighties with loads of fellas having those red bobble benny hats with 2 white stripes. I think my da still has his.

I think if we had a proper football stadium in a better location we would easily have 10,000 regular attendance. With further improvements that would rise. Build it and they will come!

[onceahoop]

It´s all a bit fuzzy in my head, I remember the Ferries were offering packages in the early 70´s and reports of loads of people travelling over. Duty free as well.
In the very early 70´s I went to secondary school in Dublin, most kids were following English football, Leeds. I was about the only one who went to LOI.
Billy Lord has given a good account. Though I would have compared the LOI to English 3rd division, with quality and the pattern of fluctuating attendances
There was talk about changing the kick off times on Sunday to avoid clashes. The live match on ITV was a killer blow not the package tours to English football.
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I seem to remember clubs changed the kick off times to 4p.m to avoid clashing with the Big Match.Don't think it worked. Another thing to remember is that there was a population boom in the sixties plus a huge interest in soccer after the World Cup in 1966. A lot of people took up the game and a lot of those games were played on Sunday. I know the ferries used to be full on Friday nights going to Liverpool in the late 70's. But you got back in time to go see your own club in the afternoon on the Sunday. God bless Atlas Travel. They ran most of the trips then. Don't think too many people flew over though.

[Stuttgart88]

Big Match was on around 1pm iirc. London clubs only where I grew up. got a lot of Arsenal and Chelsea, and given Arsenal had all the Irish it was big factor in me following Arsenal. That said, it never stopped me going to Milltown but I was probably only 3 or 4 out of a big south Dublin school (100+ pupils per year in secondary, 60+ in primary) who went to any football.

If a handful of the current playing generation did what Giles did in the 70s I think it'd have a massive impact. Everyone has in interest in football now, almost exclusively English, but I was in a very sporty school and never was I able to go in on a Thursday morning and talk about staying up to watch X team on Sportsnight. Likewise, the Wednesday morning of an intl game at Lansdowne I'd be the only one excited, or even knew it was on. I was beside myself with excitement in '84(?) when Linfield were coming down to Milltown in the European Cup. Now every schoolkid watches football. If a 12 year old could see some 30 something ex Premiership footballers playing down the road with their local LOI team it'd attract crowds. God, I remember people turning out to watch an overweight Ray Hankin for Rovers at UCD cos he'd scored a few goals for Leeds.

[Billy Lord]

God, I remember people turning out to watch an overweight Ray Hankin for Rovers at UCD cos he'd scored a few goals for Leeds.
What a waste of time that was!

[Calcio Jack]

To set the record straight on this, and my biggest gripe about the "Who Stole Our Game" book, "The Big Match" was a highlights show for most of its life, a poor man's Match of the Day and I'm pretty sure it was on around 12 or 1pm. It only showed live games from 1983 onwards, and even then not every Sunday. Form Wikipedia (ok, not the most reliable but correct in this case):

If you lived in Dublin and had UTV, The Big Match kicked off at 2pm. That caused a major problem for clubs like Rovers during the winter because from the end of October their ko time was 2.15pm as they didn't have floodlights...

Personally I loved watching the BM when it didn't clash with Rovers games... it always featured a First Div game (for some reason most often West Ham of Moore, Peters Hurst, Brooking ,Clyde Best) and then games from the 2nd/3rd/and 4th Div featuring the likes of Orient, Brighton, Charlton etc... always semed to be packed stadiums on crappy muddy pitches of course in grainy black and white... so you'd watch that , lash down the Ma's roast beef dinner and bread and butter pudding for desrert, scrounge 10p from the Da and off to Milltown... life was so simple then !!

[NY Hoop]

24,000 at a League of Ireland game. I can only imagine it! That sounds like heaven! I hope it happens again because I want to experience it!

Opening day at the RDS 17 years ago there was a reported 22,000 at it. In reality it was more like 15,000 but still.

24,000 at Lansdowne for Shels v Deportivo. Oh we love the big day out.

Every club should be getting at least 5,000 every week but the "best fans in the world" only care about their english club and that wont change.

BL mentions that he doesnt think Giles is bitter about his whole Rovers experience. Maybe bitter is too strong a word but in my living memory he has never ever mentioned Rovers.


KOH

[geysir]

Before Giles and before the "star" guest phenonomen other clubs tried a professional approach of sorts, Waterford were the most successful with a good blend of imports and locals. Dundalk got in the hardest feckers going with Murray, Millington and Fox. Sligo blew a fortune and went the whole hog and flew in about 10 players per game to play alongside David Pugh.

[NY Hoop]

Before Giles and before the "star" guest phenonomen other clubs tried a professional approach of sorts, Waterford were the most successful with a good blend of imports and locals. Dundalk got in the hardest feckers going with Murray, Millington and Fox. Sligo blew a fortune and went the whole hog and flew in about 10 players per game to play alongside David Pugh.

Sligo were still doing that 10 years ago.

KOH