NI Boss targets Republics Kane

[dr_peepee]

According to todays Indo, Worthington is gonna call Blackburns ROI U21 international Tony O'Kane into NI's full squad.

Bring it on.....

[liaml]

Absolutely fine with that. Should O'Kane chose the North then good luck him. Personally I'd rather have a 2nd generation English-born player who wanted to play for us than an Irish-born player that didn't.

-Liam

[carloz]

This is just being petty, they failed in their attempt to get Gibson so now they go for O'Kane. My cynical mind thinks that this is just because Gibson got capped against Denmark. Wortington is doing himself no favours here and is making himself look a bit desperate. Let the lad make up his own mind instead of forcing him into this situation

[HolylandsMan]

His loss as far as I'm concerned. What the FAI need to do is make it very clear that players from all 32 counties are eligible for Ireland and will be considered for selection. Therefore those that wish to can play for Ireland, if that is the country of their choosing and those who would prefer to play for the North can also do so. And good luck to all players in the choice that they make.

The important principle is that players who are born in the North should have the choice to represent whichever of the two international. sides they feel best represents their national identity. For some that will be NI, for other Ireland. Personally being from the North, I feel best represented by the southern side, others feel better represented by NI. Good luck to them but my choice is as equally deserving of respect as theirs.

[EalingGreen]

"NI Boss targets Republics O'Kane"

Wow! How many errors can you fit into one five word headline? :eek:

The NI boss did not "target" anyone. He had already been called up to NI's U-21 squad by Roy Millar and following injury scares to NI's first choice senior left backs (Evans and McCartney), Worthy "upgraded" him to the senior squad - common practice by managers.

And as for the player being the "Republics", he was born and brought up in NI and is a product of NI under-age football, having represented us first. However, he became p issed off when a stupid administrative error meant the IFA failed to register him for an U-21 tournament, so that he couldn't play in it.

He was then "targeted" by Don Givens and agreed to play for the ROI. However, following Given's apparently deciding that he was no longer "good enough" for the ROI's U-21 side, it looks as though the player is now happy to revert to his first choice, NI, with the happy bonus that he may be involved with the senior squad earlier than he might have expected.

And his name is "Kane".

[EalingGreen]

This is just being petty, they failed in their attempt to get Gibson so now they go for O'Kane. My cynical mind thinks that this is just because Gibson got capped against Denmark. Wortington is doing himself no favours here and is making himself look a bit desperate. Let the lad make up his own mind instead of forcing him into this situation

Your "cynical mind" is off the mark. If Worthy is "desperate", it is only because of an injury doubt regarding his first and second choice left backs (Evans and McCartney). Assuming he has called Kane (not O'Kane) up from the U-21 squad, it will be as back up to third choice left back (Capaldi), in the event of the other two not making it.

As for your last sentence, assuming Kane does actually accept the offer to return to the NI fold, it will be precisely because he has "made his own mind up"; otherwise, how else was Worthington going to "force" him into anything? Abduction at gunpoint? :rolleyes:

[EalingGreen]

His loss as far as I'm concerned. What the FAI need to do is make it very clear that players from all 32 counties are eligible for Ireland and will be considered for selection. Therefore those that wish to can play for Ireland, if that is the country of their choosing and those who would prefer to play for the North can also do so. And good luck to all players in the choice that they make.

The important principle is that players who are born in the North should have the choice to represent whichever of the two international. sides they feel best represents their national identity. For some that will be NI, for other Ireland. Personally being from the North, I feel best represented by the southern side, others feel better represented by NI. Good luck to them but my choice is as equally deserving of respect as theirs.

People can choose to support whoever they like, but they can't always choose who they may play for - there are eligibility criteria laid down by FIFA. And whether Kane is eligible for the ROI's senior team or not, there is no doubt that he is eligible for the Northern Ireland senior team.

I am pleased Kane appears finally to have chosen NI after having considered the ROI for a period, the latter perhaps only from pique by being messed around by the IFA over an administrative matter.

[HolylandsMan]

People can choose to support whoever they like, but they can't always choose who they may play for - there are eligibility criteria laid down by FIFA.

My point is that FIFA should clear up the confusion which some people seem to have and confirm that anybody born of the island of Ireland can represent the Republic if they wish to do so. The FAI should then make clear that they will welcome into the fold players from all 32 counties who see themselves better represented by the ROI team than the NI side. It will then be up to the individual player which of the 2 international sides they feel better represents their nationality and I would think that many will choose the southern side, just like many of us who make the trip to Dublin from the north regularly to support our national side.

People who choose the ROI are not "traitors" or "defectors" no matter how posters on certain websites might try to depict them, rather they are proud Irish people representing their country.

[EalingGreen]

My point is that FIFA should clear up the confusion which some people seem to have and confirm that anybody born of the island of Ireland can represent the Republic if they wish to do so. The FAI should then make clear that they will welcome into the fold players from all 32 counties who see themselves better represented by the ROI team than the NI side. It will then be up to the individual player which of the 2 international sides they feel better represents their nationality and I would think that many will choose the southern side, just like many of us who make the trip to Dublin from the north regularly to support our national side.

People who choose the ROI are not "traitors" or "defectors" no matter how posters on certain websites might try to depict them, rather they are proud Irish people representing their country.

I certainly agree that FIFA should clear this up for once and for all (even if I hope that they decide differently to you!)

And I wouldn't argue with too much of the rest of your post. And if FIFA should decide in your favour, my chief concern would be one of players making their choice not because a team "better represents their nationality", but because they choose the team which best suits their own interests
i.e. if they're good enough for both, they choose the one which is playing best, or if they're not good enough for both, they end up playing for what would otherwise have been their second "choice".

Anyhow, on this subject of supporting the team which "better represents your nationality", HM, do you not find it somewhat strange to follow a team which, until Gibson at least, never had any representatives from your own neck of the woods?

I ask this, since as an Irish rugby fan, I always felt especially proud when the Ireland team had more than its "share" of Ulstermen, and found I had to work a little harder to summon up the same enthusiasm recently when Ulster only had one or two (or even no) representatives.

And if FIFA did finally close off all hope of the FAI selecting NI-born players who did not have the necessary parental/grandparental/residential eligibility, would that present a "challenge" to your enthusiasm?

P.S. I would never use the term "traitor" for someone who has chosen as Gibson did. But considering he formerly represented NI as an under-age player, I have no problem in using the term "defector"! ;)

[HolylandsMan]

Anyhow, on this subject of supporting the team which "better represents your nationality", HM, do you not find it somewhat strange to follow a team which, until Gibson at least, never had any representatives from your own neck of the woods?

I see myself as Irish, I see my national flag as the tricolour, my national anthem as Amhrán na bhFiann and my national capital as Dublin. I have no affinity with the Stormont flag or God Save the Queen, therefore I choose to support the ROI as my national side as it is a team which better represents my nationality. While "political" factors may seem to come into it, it is more a choice of identity rather than politics although of course the two intertwine.

[lopez]

...Anyhow, on this subject of supporting the team which "better represents your nationality", HM, do you not find it somewhat strange to follow a team which, until Gibson at least, never had any representatives from your own neck of the woods?

I ask this, since as an Irish rugby fan, I always felt especially proud when the Ireland team had more than its "share" of Ulstermen, and found I had to work a little harder to summon up the same enthusiasm recently when Ulster only had one or two (or even no) representatives.

And if FIFA did finally close off all hope of the FAI selecting NI-born players who did not have the necessary parental/grandparental/residential eligibility, would that present a "challenge" to your enthusiasm?..LOL! :D How embarassing can one get. Watch out Holylands, he'll be asking you to come along for a bible study next.

Yeah, I'm having a problem with the Ireland team not including enough 2G players from hertfordshire these days. Might have to start following the tans instead. :rolleyes: EG, your problem with the Irish rugby team is that there are not enough unionists (more than a couple of years ago, though?) left in the team, not due to their geographical birthplace. If you were that petty, you'd be having kittens because no one from your street was playing rugger for Ireland. And don't insult our intelligence it isn't, cos you wouldn't be bringing up the the SS and tricolour being flown at Irish rugby games as an issue with you, if it weren't. My advice is bring along your O6C flag next time and chill out. No one cares at rugby.

[co. down green]

'Anyhow, on this subject of supporting the team which "better represents your nationality", HM, do you not find it somewhat strange to follow a team which, until Gibson at least, never had any representatives from your own neck of the woods?'

eg

Irish lads from the North have been representing Ireland for the last ten years, Its hardly Holylandsman's fault that none of them have reached the Level of Darron Gibson, Apart form Bangor's Alan Kernaghan of course.

Interesting comments from Don Given's today stating that it was Kane who approached the FAI asking to play for Ireland and confirming his request in a letter. Given said that all the paperwork had been completed and verified with FIFA regarding his change of association, including Kane's formal written request to represent Ireland.

I thought you could only switch once, is he even eligible to play for the North ?

Dispels the myth of tapping up etc..regarding Kane.

It also seems the offer of an u21 call up did not sway Kane's decision initially and Worthington was forced to offer him a squad place in the senior team to try and sway the lads decision.

Whatever his decision, i wish him well in the future and ultimately i only want to see Irish players representing Ireland who can give 100% commitment to the team

[geysir]

I thought you could only switch once, is he even eligible to play for the North ?
AFAIU he only played in 2 u21 friendlies. Apparantly underage friendlies don't count but senior friendlies and underage competition caps do count.

[EalingGreen]

LOL! :D How embarassing can one get. Watch out Holylands, he'll be asking you to come along for a bible study next.

Yeah, I'm having a problem with the Ireland team not including enough 2G players from hertfordshire these days. Might have to start following the tans instead. EG, your problem with the Irish rugby team is that there are not enough unionists (more than a couple of years ago, though?) left in the team, not due to their geographical birthplace. If you were that petty, you'd be having kittens because no one from your street was playing rugger for Ireland. And don't insult our intelligence it isn't, cos you wouldn't be bringing up the the SS and tricolour being flown at Irish rugby games as an issue with you, if it weren't. My advice is bring along your O6C flag next time and chill out. No one cares at rugby.

Your opening comment (bible study :confused:) is baffling and your main paragraph (rugby) is cobblers. Not only do you have no idea why I support the Irish rugby team, but the motive which you ascribe to me - wanting to see
more "Unionists" in the team - is not even logical, since no Ulsterman who allowed his Unionism to colour his thoughts about sport in such a way, would follow an all-Ireland team in the first place, never mind attend matches at Lansdowne where the Tricolour flies and the Soldiers Song is played. :rolleyes:

Anyhow, perhaps I'll ask advice on the matter from the Ulster and Ireland rugby player who lives nearest to my neck of the woods in Ulster: Monaghan's Tommy Bowe...

P.S. Who the fcuk are the "tans"?

[co. down green]

AFAIU he only played in 2 u21 friendlies. Apparantly underage friendlies don't count but senior friendlies and underage competition caps do count.

Maybe i'm wrong but i thought a change is possible only once, up to the age of 21 as long as it has been approved by the FIFA Players Status Committee.

If Givens has said that it had been approved & ratified, then surely the move of association has already been made, irrespective of his competitive appearances.

[EalingGreen]

eg

Irish lads from the North have been representing Ireland for the last ten years, Its hardly Holylandsman's fault that none of them have reached the Level of Darron Gibson, [B]Apart form Bangor's Alan Kernaghan of course.

Interesting comments from Don Given's today stating that it was Kane who approached the FAI asking to play for Ireland and confirming his request in a letter. Given said that all the paperwork had been completed and verified with FIFA regarding his change of association, including Kane's formal written request to represent Ireland.

I thought you could only switch once, is he even eligible to play for the North ?

Dispels the myth of tapping up etc..regarding Kane.

It also seems the offer of an u21 call up did not sway Kane's decision initially and Worthington was forced to offer him a squad place in the senior team to try and sway the lads decision.


I get accused of repeating myself on this forum, but it seems you can't make some points frequently enough. ALAN KERNAGHAN WAS NOT BORN IN NORTHERN IRELAND. If he had been, he would have played for our senior team, which he had always wanted.

He was born in England, as were both his parents, though they moved the family to NI when AK was very young, which is why e.g. he represented NI Schools. His grandparents were from NI, which would have made him eligible for us according to FIFA. However, at that time, the IFA only recognised a player having been born in NI, or having an NI-born parent, as sufficient to qualify someone.

The FAI had no such qualms, however, and arranged a Passport for him on the basis of his grandparents (who may have been born pre-partition?).

As for Givens, do you have the source where he made such comments? If he has (avoidably?) missed out on a promising young player, perhaps there's a degree of "ass-covering" going on? As it happens, the IFA having screwed Kane around previously, it's most likely Kane approached the FAI first, rather than the other way round. However, the existence of said paperwork doesn't actually prove anything, since any such application to switch Associations would have to be recorded formally in writing and in cases where the FAI made the first approach, I doubt they'd be stupid enough to let the paperwork reflect that.

Finally, what is your source for stating that an U-21 call was inadequate to sway Kane? His invitation by Roy Millar to join the U-21 squad, and apparent acceptance, was before NW's invitation to join the senior squad, which itself only followed injury doubts about some of NW's defenders.

[dr_peepee]

"NI Boss targets Republics O'Kane"

Wow! How many errors can you fit into one five word headline? :eek:

The NI boss did not "target" anyone. He had already been called up to NI's U-21 squad by Roy Millar and following injury scares to NI's first choice senior left backs (Evans and McCartney), Worthy "upgraded" him to the senior squad - common practice by managers.

And as for the player being the "Republics", he was born and brought up in NI and is a product of NI under-age football, having represented us first. However, he became p issed off when a stupid administrative error meant the IFA failed to register him for an U-21 tournament, so that he couldn't play in it.

He was then "targeted" by Don Givens and agreed to play for the ROI. However, following Given's apparently deciding that he was no longer "good enough" for the ROI's U-21 side, it looks as though the player is now happy to revert to his first choice, NI, with the happy bonus that he may be involved with the senior squad earlier than he might have expected.

And his name is "Kane".

Haven't quite got your head around the whole sarcasm thing, have ye!!.... :rolleyes:

[geysir]

Maybe i'm wrong but i thought a change is possible only once, up to the age of 21 as long as it has been approved by the FIFA Players Status Committee.

If Givens has said that it had been approved & ratified, then surely the move of association has already been made, irrespective of his competitive appearances.
It's pretty clear that a player may exercise the option only once.
My guess (only a guess) is that the new country has to bless the transfer by capping the player, if the player is uncapped at senior level then the transfer may be revoked, just a guess.

Otherwise we could be looking at a situation where if NI cap Kane then they risk the wrath of FIFA by fielding an ineligible player :D

I hope the IFA financially compensated the FAI for nurturing Kane.

I see there is poster on the thread acting the troll, now I am thinking that he is best ignored. :)

[EalingGreen]

Haven't quite got your head around the whole sarcasm thing, have ye!!.... :rolleyes:

Perhaps not. You see, I had thought it was the convention to give people a clue by using the rolleyes smilie when being sarcastic, not when subsequently giving your explanation. Oh well.

And what was with getting his name wrong? Surely "Kane" isn't too difficult a name, unless you were trying to emphasise his "Irishness" with the extra "O" :rolleyes:

(See, I used the rolleyes thingie there. You know, to denote sarcasm...)

[lopez]

Your opening comment (bible study :confused:) is baffling and your main paragraph (rugby) is cobblers. Not only do you have no idea why I support the Irish rugby team, but the motive which you ascribe to me - wanting to see
more "Unionists" in the team - is not even logical, since no Ulsterman who allowed his Unionism to colour his thoughts about sport in such a way, would follow an all-Ireland team in the first place, never mind attend matches at Lansdowne where the Tricolour flies and the Soldiers Song is played. :rolleyes:

Anyhow, perhaps I'll ask advice on the matter from the Ulster and Ireland rugby player who lives nearest to my neck of the woods in Ulster: Monaghan's Tommy Bowe...

P.S. Who the fcuk are the "tans"?Your support of the Irish rugby team is conditioned by your unionism. Why bring up the point of anthem and flag not representing your 'tradition.' I'd support Ireland in rugby no matter where the players are from. You seem to have a bit of a problem with that.

As for that twaddle about unionist players playing for Ireland, two points. Their choice is to play for England, Scotland or Wales if they don't like it or lobby for either a NI team or better still a British team. Secondly, the IRFU accomodates the unionist 'tradition' far more than the IFA's and its 'Football for All' does for Northern Nationalists. Still, some people aren't happy, to which I'd suggest 'have you heard of Murryfield'?

[Juanace]

To be fair EalingGreen makes some valid points, but at the end of the day it should be simple. If you live in the 6 counties you have a choice who to represent. Everyone knows the reasons why. There's no point us waffling on about it.

Only thing i'd add is that once you make that choice you should not be allowed change ur mind.

[Ordinary Fan]

That is very reasonable JUANACE but when is the cut-off point for making up your mind?

[EalingGreen]

To be fair EalingGreen makes some valid points, but at the end of the day it should be simple. If you live in the 6 counties you have a choice who to represent. Everyone knows the reasons why. There's no point us waffling on about it.


I'm not going to argue with your point, Juanace, merely suggest that there might be another "simple" choice out there. Namely, if you are born/live within NI, you play for NI and if you are born/live within the ROI you play for ROI.

After all, why should people within the 6C (your term) have a choice which is not automatically open to people within the 26C (or anywhere else in the world, for that matter)?

[DmanDmythDledge]

After all, why should people within the 6C (your term) have a choice which is not automatically open to people within the 26C (or anywhere else in the world, for that matter)?
:eek: How do you not know the answer to that? (although you're probably wumming).

[EalingGreen]

:eek: How do you not know the answer to that? (although you're probably wumming).

Of course I know the answer to that, Dm, which is why I did not seek to deny Juanace the right to his opinion.

Rather, I was merely trying to point out that there might be more than one opinion out there, something which appears to have passed you by entirely...:(

[geysir]

there might be another "simple" choice out there. Namely, if you are born/live within NI, you play for NI and if you are born/live within the ROI you play for ROI.

:confused:

Your simple choice is to eliminate choice for NI born Irish nationals. :D

Fortunatly there is some precise and honourable legislation in the FIFA statutes to protect the civil rights of footballers from people like you.

Time to return to your nest Ealing Green and await furthur developments
because the answer (like the little boy tells the two tramps every evening) from FIFA will not be this evening but surely tomorrow.

[EalingGreen]

:confused:

Your simple choice is to eliminate choice for NI born Irish nationals. :D

Fortunatly there is some precise and honourable legislation in the FIFA statutes to protect the civil rights of footballers from people like you.

Time to return to your nest Ealing Green and await furthur developments
because the answer (like the little boy tells the two tramps) from FIFA will not be this evening but surely tomorrow.

And there was me thinking that there might be more than one "simple choice" out there in Ireland, seeing as there is more than more than one "Irish" international football team out there, as well.

Or do you envisage a situation whereby players from the 26C, for whatever reason, might be allowed which of the two Irish teams they represent?

Or indeed a situation whereby players from the territory of any Association (jurisdiction) might be in a position to choose to represent another Association, whether for political reasons, or no particular reason at all?

Trust me, if you could be sufficiently arsed to check back through my posts on this subject, you'd find that I have never actually prescribed any single "solution" to this particular conundrum.

Rather, I have tried instead to point out that there must be more than one way of looking at this, otherwise the solution would be obvious to everyone.

In which case, I am happy enough to await "further developments" at my "nest" - I may not be the nestling who is disappointed in all this!

P.S. I am not familiar with the story of the little boy and the two tramps.

[dr_peepee]

Or do you envisage a situation whereby players from the 26C, for whatever reason, might be allowed which of the two Irish teams they represent?

Or indeed a situation whereby players from the territory of any Association (jurisdiction) might be in a position to choose to represent another Association, whether for political reasons, or no particular reason at all?

Yes but is the above not a case of using Northen Ireland as an exception to prove a rule. Is this not a misplaced fear that this precedent is gonna cause annarchy in International football eligability criteria?



.....you'd find that I have never actually prescribed any single "solution" to this particular conundrum.


Why not? Commit to something. It appears to me you're understandably looking for an outcome that best suits NI. The only conundrum I see is that that can't happen without compromising the players right of choice of Nationality.

If you are bothered by the prospect of loosing eligable players to the Republic, I feel your frustration is misdirected in targeting perceived ambiugity in eligabiliy criteria.

P.S I'll work on my Net-iquette.

[as_i_say]

So back to O'Kane (or is it Kane?). Is he any good-should we be bothered about him the way we are with Gibson?


Will his brother The Undertaker play for NI or us?

[EalingGreen]

Yes but is the above not a case of using Northen Ireland as an exception to prove a rule. Is this not a misplaced fear that this precedent is gonna cause annarchy in International football eligability criteria?


Why not? Commit to something. It appears to me you're understandably looking for an outcome that best suits NI. The only conundrum I see is that that can't happen without compromising the players right of choice of Nationality.

If you are bothered by the prospect of loosing eligable players to the Republic, I feel your frustration is misdirected in targeting perceived ambiugity in eligabiliy criteria.


I can certainly understand the call for NI to be an exception (though how it "proves the rule" somewhat escapes me. No matter) However, the fear that allowing such an exception will cause great difficulties elsewhere is not "misplaced", otherwise FIFA would not have had to tighten the eligibility rules in the first place. The birthplace/parent/grandparent/residency Annex was introduced in response to a genuine problem which had arisen. I personally have little doubt that it was done without regard to the unusual circumstances obtaining in NI. Whether FIFA now wishes to amend the Annex, declare an exception (or the non-application of it) for NI-born players, or is determined to apply it equally to all Nationalities, is the moot point.

Re your second paragraph, obviously I know which way I would like FIFA to decide. However, unlike the majority of posters on this Board, I can see the merit of the technical arguments both ways. Therefore I feel FIFA has to make a policy decision, which will inevitably disappoint one of its Member Associations or the other, which I imagine may be why it is taking so long.

Re your last paragraph, of course I am concerned at the prospect of losing players who might otherwise only be eligible for us. What supporter wouldn't be? But it is not a case of "perceived ambiguity". Rather, there is a conundrum to be solved which may only be determined by FIFA. Namely, do NI-born players automatically have dual footballing (NOT political or constitutional) nationality, which would thereby qualify them for either of two Associations?
Or, on the basis that one cannot be born in two separate "countries" (obviously!), do they need to satisfy one of the the additional three criteria (parent/grandparent/residency), now applied to every other footballer everywhere else in the world, when seeking to represent an Association in whose jurisdiction they were not actually born?

[lopez]

...After all, why should people within the 6C (your term) have a choice which is not automatically open to people within the 26C (or anywhere else in the world, for that matter)?
This is not our concern. Take it up with the British government about their policy of denying citizenship to Southern unionists who want it.

Why aren't you suggesting a recipricol arrangement. Simple choice of the player, or are you some sort of dictatorial fascist? Southern players if they choose can play for the North as well? Because you have that de facto arrangement already, and you know it.

The quality of the NI team is not so low as to not still be compiled of players from British teams. Two years in Britain and any Irish player can get a British passport. I'm sure this will be 'fast-tracked'. Then the player in question can play for NI. So the choice may not be automatically open to everyone, but it is almost universally open to professional footballers from the 26C to play for NI if they wished.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; You want to deny Northern nationalists the choice to play for what they regard as their country (Ireland, which is currently politically 26C but who they believe should be (as it was prior to 1921) 32C), but doing nothing to stop southerners or any other foreigners playing for NI.

[tetsujin1979]

from http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/im-so-lucky-to-be-here-admits-clarke-1070276.html

Meanwhile, the FAI yesterday told Northern Ireland that they can forget about Darron Gibson following Tony Kane into Nigel Worthington's team.
Blackburn Rovers defender Kane has been called into Worthington's senior squad for next weeks' Euro 2008 qualifiers. This is despite the player switching to the Republic in October last year and playing in five under-21 internationals.
FIFA are processing the player's application for a change of allegiance from the North to the Republic. Worthington is determined to reclaim Manchester United midfielder Gibson, who made his senior Irish debut in Denmark. The Northern Ireland boss is adamant that Steve Staunton will not pick the player in a competitive game for fear of FIFA sanctions.
"Darron first played competitively for the Republic in October 2003 and FIFA only changed the rules in May 2004," insisted an FAI spokesman.

[youngirish]

And I wouldn't argue with too much of the rest of your post. And if FIFA should decide in your favour, my chief concern would be one of players making their choice not because a team "better represents their nationality", but because they choose the team which best suits their own interests
i.e. if they're good enough for both, they choose the one which is playing best, or if they're not good enough for both, they end up playing for what would otherwise have been their second "choice".

You mean like Tony Kane choosing the North because he wasn't good enough to get into any of the Republic Youth Squads?




As for your last sentence, assuming Kane does actually accept the offer to return to the NI fold, it will be precisely because he has "made his own mind up"; otherwise, how else was Worthington going to "force" him into anything? Abduction at gunpoint? :rolleyes:
So why have you been harping on for what seems like an eternity on here and on ourweecountry.com about the FAI tapping up the likes of Gibson, Kane (initially), Wilson and O'Connor and convincing them to switch associations adding that you would like to see FIFA take action against the FAI for this? This shows EG what a hypocrite you are. One rule for the North and another for everyone else. Take those blinkers off and grow up.

[Paddy Garcia]

Re tets post - Does this mean his applicaiton is still subject to "processing" & is therefore not yet ratified?

[lopez]

from http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/im-so-lucky-to-be-here-admits-clarke-1070276.htmlEven if the babies on ourweeminds and the IFA were to get this episode decided in their favour (which I think there are two hopes and one of them's called Bob), Gibson is ours as his debut preceded the Qatar incident.

Stan! Cap his Irish ass!

[WembleyGreen]

New boy here! Hi to all. Re: Kane/O'Kane, he's made his choice to switch back so let him on and good luck to him. Whatever his reasons are for going back to NI opportunity is most likely the biggest reason, he wasn't featuring much for us anyway and a senior call up looks even more unlikely. Worthington will no doubt put a bit of OWC spin on it but the reality is he is unlikely to be missed down south, talking of OWC there's a few posters on there that won't be best pleased to see the return of the 'prodigal son' judging from some of the bile spewed out on that rather long and tedious thread concerning Kane, Gibson, O'Connor and Wilson. Gibson's not for turning it would appear, I don't know about O'Connor and Wilson but I'm sure Nige will be sniffing about hoping he can persuade them to rejoin too. Good luck to Kane have a nice career, bye!

[EalingGreen]

You mean like Tony Kane choosing the North because he wasn't good enough to get into any of the Republic Youth Squads?


So why have you been harping on for what seems like an eternity on here and on ourweecountry.com about the FAI tapping up the likes of Gibson, Kane (initially), Wilson and O'Connor and convincing them to switch associations adding that you would like to see FIFA take action against the FAI for this? This shows EG what a hypocrite you are. One rule for the North and another for everyone else. Take those blinkers off and grow up.

Re Kane, I have not discounted the possibility that he is merely picking and choosing on grounds of expediency. It is for the manager to ascertain a player's motives and try to predict his commitment accordingly. Worthington seems hapy enough with Kane on this latter point.

As for your second paragraph, I expressed my concern when Kerr (FAI) discontinued the decades old "Gentlemens' Agreement" brokered by FIFA and started selecting NI-born players. This concern is exacerbated by evidence that the FAI is not merely accepting approaches from NI-born players, but actively soliciting them. The two examples we do know about are Kieran McKenna and Chris Baird, both of whom clearly stated they were "tapped up" (but declined). Given the thoroughness of the FAI's scouting programme under Kerr, it is extremely unlikely (imo) that these were the only two. However, those who accepted are not likely to disclose the fact of their having been approached.
Consequently, if as I believe it may be, the FAI should not in fact be capping these players at senior level, then yes, I do want FIFA to take action. There is nothing "hypocritical" about wishing to see the Rules properly applied, it would only be so were I not to accept FIFA's determination if it goes against the IFA.
As for the individual players you cite, I don't think I posted anywhere that any of these four were "tapped" by the FAI. Do you care to prove me wrong on this?

[EalingGreen]

talking of OWC there's a few posters on there that won't be best pleased to see the return of the 'prodigal son' judging from some of the bile spewed out on that rather long and tedious thread concerning Kane, Gibson, O'Connor and Wilson.

Actually, since it was disclosed that Kane is returning to the fold, the reaction to him on OWC has been almost universally favourable, so it really is a very "few".

[youngirish]

As for the individual players you cite, I don't think I posted anywhere that any of these four were "tapped" by the FAI. Do you care to prove me wrong on this?
You have mentioned tapping up with regard to those aforementioned players. On the ourweecountry.com thread dealing with this there are numerous mentions of the word tapping up by yourself with regard to the players mentioned above. Don't make me find them. I couldn't be bothered sifting through 89 pages of absolute bile.

[EalingGreen]

You have mentioned tapping up with regard to those aforemtnioned players. On the ourweecountry.com thread dealing with this there are numerous mentions of the word tapping up by yourself with regard to the players mentioned above. Don't make me find them. I couldn't be bothered sifting through 89 pages of absolute bile.

You made the claim, you back it up.

[youngirish]

You made the claim, you back it up.
Here's some comments by yourself on the thread regarding Gibson, Kane and O'Connor and this is only a few pages in. I can't be bothered to look for more. I'm sure I can recollect plenty more such comments both on ourweecountry.com and on some of the earlier threads discussing this matter on here which would take an age to find.

No doubt all those who have represented the ROI would say they, not the FAI, made the first approach: that's how "tapping up" works.

More pertinent are the cases of players who've not represented ROI, but stuck with NI, despite allegedly being approached - McKenna and Baird are two who've been mentioned on this site.

On a more general note, some of the posters here seem to think the FAI have a religious, or political, motive in tapping up our players. I don't think that has anything to do with it; rather, in their efforts to get the best possible team, they'd give a Passport to Osama Bin Laden if they thought he could do a job for them.

The only reason they appear to be targeting youngsters from a Catholic/Nationalist background will be because those from a Prod/Unionist background are much less likely to say "Yes", and much more likely to blow the whistle.

[EalingGreen]

Here's some comments by yourself on the thread regarding Gibson, Kane and O'Connor and this is only a few pages in. I can't be bothered to look for more. I'm sure I can recollect plenty more such comments both on ourweecountry.com and on some of the earlier threads discussing this matter on here which would take an age to find.

No doubt all those who have represented the ROI would say they, not the FAI, made the first approach: that's how "tapping up" works.

More pertinent are the cases of players who've not represented ROI, but stuck with NI, despite allegedly being approached - McKenna and Baird are two who've been mentioned on this site.

On a more general note, some of the posters here seem to think the FAI have a religious, or political, motive in tapping up our players. I don't think that has anything to do with it; rather, in their efforts to get the best possible team, they'd give a Passport to Osama Bin Laden if they thought he could do a job for them.

The only reason they appear to be targeting youngsters from a Catholic/Nationalist background will be because those from a Prod/Unionist background are much less likely to say "Yes", and much more likely to blow the whistle.

And where in that post do I mention Gibson, Kane, O'Connor or Wilson, the four players whom you allege I claimed were "tapped up"? You really are making yourself look foolish.

[youngirish]

And where in that post do I mention Gibson, Kane, O'Connor or Wilson, the four players whom you allege I claimed were "tapped up"? You really are making yourself look foolish.

The thread was titled Gibson, O'Connor, Kane go to the Darkside. What other players were you talking about on a thread with this title? My understanding is that you use the examples of McKenna and Baird who admitted to being "tapped up" and imply that the same may have occurred regarding the players being discussed. Anyway even if you were referring to other players the initial point I made is no less valid so what's your point? You really aren't too bright are you?

Anyway here's another of your posts two pages on (I'm on page 9 and there are over 90 so I reckon there are a few more from you about the same subject).

On the other point, it is hardly coincidence that the Northern players approached, doing the approaching, or actually switching to the ROI are invariably from a Catholic/Nationalist background. Therefore, unless you think that the FAI has never made the first approach, the inevitable conclusion to be drawn is either:
1. They aren't interested in their fellow Irishmen when they are Prods/Unionists; or
2. They are afraid that not only might Prods/Unionists rebuff them, but they might also reveal some practices that the FAI wish to keep under wraps.
Either way, it is pretty shabby of them, to say the least.

P.S. I don't know (or care) for certain what religion Gibson is, but he went to a Catholic school in Derry: probably just another one of those coincidences, eh?

Who were you referring to being approached by the FAI here? Gus Caesar?

[lopez]

And where in that post do I mention Gibson, Kane, O'Connor or Wilson, the four players whom you allege I claimed were "tapped up"? You really are making yourself look foolish.I too saw you make the allegations of tapping up on ourweeminds, so the only person making a tw*t of themselves on here is you. As someone who likes to hassle OTHER people into staying strictly on topic, who else were you talking about that time?

Besides, if there is a gentleman's agreement, and Kerr broke it, there is no tapping up to be done. Tapping up has to do with underhand, illegal approaches. Nothing illegal I see here. If the FAI approached the players eligible, they are perfectly entitled to do so. More likely someone close to the player told the FAI that the player was a keen Ireland fan, so approach him. You're right about unionist players being less inclined to accept - very stating the bloody obvious here - but more than likely no one would petition on their behalf. I doubt it has anything to do with a policy of not picking 'Prods', which is what you - and the nappy boys on OWM - imply it is.

[lopez]

New boy here!Welcome aboard. Got a bit of a fright though, as I initially thought you might be Ealing's brother from up the A406. :D;)

[EalingGreen]

The thread was titled Gibson, O'Connor, Kane go to the Darkside. What other players were you talking about on a thread with this title? My understanding is that you use to case of McKenna and Baird who admitted to being "tapped up" and imply that the same may have occurred regarding the players being discussed. Anyway even if you were referring to other players the initial point I made is no less valid so what's your point? You really aren't too bright are you?

Anyway here's another of your posts two pages on (I'm on page 9 and there are over 90 so I reckon there are a few more from you about the same subject).

On the other point, it is hardly coincidence that the Northern players approached, doing the approaching, or actually switching to the ROI are invariably from a Catholic/Nationalist background. Therefore, unless you think that the FAI has never made the first approach, the inevitable conclusion to be drawn is either:
1. They aren't interested in their fellow Irishmen when they are Prods/Unionists; or
2. They are afraid that not only might Prods/Unionists rebuff them, but they might also reveal some practices that the FAI wish to keep under wraps.
Either way, it is pretty shabby of them, to say the least.

P.S. I don't know (or care) for certain what religion Gibson is, but he went to a Catholic school in Derry: probably just another one of those coincidences, eh?


The thread is about NI-born players switching to the ROI, which the thread opener (Glen Man) mentioned in the context of the three players about whom it was then most pertinent.

But whilst discussing the subject generally, I do not recall stating that any of those three players, or Wilson, was tapped up.

In the particular post you've quoted, I did mention Gibson, but in another context*. And even there, if you read what I actually posted, I left it open that his opting for the ROI might have been since he was one of:
"...the Northern players approached, doing the approaching, or actually switching to the ROI..."
That is, DG might have "done the approaching".

Try harder next time.




* - Someone questioned DG's religion and I pointed out from his Wikipedia entry that he had gone to a Catholic school in Derry, so was most likely Catholic.

[Juanace]

Chill people chill!!

Lets all take a deep breath!!

Talk about waffling on!!! NI is clearly an exception to all things conventional.

I think any reasonable person would agree it should be the individuals choice. Cut off should be immediately. I.e. the minute you step on the field for a country at any age then thatss your team.

One things EG though. I think the FAI should be allowed ask players like Baird etc.. if they wanna play for ROI. I dont think thats 'tapping up'. If they say no they feel Northern Irish then grand.

Deep sdown, despite your well constructed arguments EG, i think you realise that you cant stop a fella from the North playing for ROI if that is where he wants to play.

[Maroon 7]

Actually, since it was disclosed that Kane is returning to the fold, the reaction to him on OWC has been almost universally favourable, so it really is a very "few".

And he's suddenly become a very good player again strangely enough. A week ago he was footballing lump of wood.:D

[Maroon 7]

Here's some comments by yourself on the thread regarding Gibson, Kane and O'Connor and this is only a few pages in. I can't be bothered to look for more. I'm sure I can recollect plenty more such comments both on ourweecountry.com and on some of the earlier threads discussing this matter on here which would take an age to find.

No doubt all those who have represented the ROI would say they, not the FAI, made the first approach: that's how "tapping up" works.

More pertinent are the cases of players who've not represented ROI, but stuck with NI, despite allegedly being approached - McKenna and Baird are two who've been mentioned on this site.

On a more general note, some of the posters here seem to think the FAI have a religious, or political, motive in tapping up our players. I don't think that has anything to do with it; rather, in their efforts to get the best possible team, they'd give a Passport to Osama Bin Laden if they thought he could do a job for them.

The only reason they appear to be targeting youngsters from a Catholic/Nationalist background will be because those from a Prod/Unionist background are much less likely to say "Yes", and much more likely to blow the whistle.

A case of trying to speak out of both sides of your mouth at once.:D

[RogerMilla]

Deep down, despite your well constructed arguments EG, i think you realise that you cant stop a fella from the North playing for ROI if that is where he wants to play.

This is the vital point and long may it continue that we can give the lads ( and ladies) up there citizenship and and a place on our team for those who want it and merit it.

And basically this is what EG wants to bring a halt to.