The "holding" midfielder

[Bottle of Tonic]

This is just something I've been thinking about the past couple of seasons.
Now I know different styles of play/tactics go in and out of vogue but does it seem to anyone that there seem to be a lot more "holding" players these days than there were a few years ago or at least a greater emphasis on the
position?
The way it is often portrayed in the media you would swear a "holding" midfielder was imperative to a team. For example Owen Hargreaves was routinely jeered in England before they decided Lampard and Gerrard couldn't play together and they needed that holder. He's all the rage now.
As a Celtic supporter we're having quite a change around this season with the archetype holding player, Neil Lennon, gone to be replaced by a more dynamic looking CM in Brown and Donati. Neither is an out and out holder or defensive mid and (early days I know) we seem to be playing far speedier, more inventive football.
In terms of Ireland is Carsley the first name on the sheet these days cos he plays that role or is it just that he's our most experienced midfielder?
Whats it like at your clubs? Any holding players come or gone and how has that affected the play?

[superfrank]

Makelélé, arguably the current master of the holding midfield position, has been immense for us. Michael Essien is good at the job too.

Wisey was a similar type of player, under Gullit and Vialli we didn't play that kind of game that focused on the holding midfield position though.

[Sheridan]

No offence to either of you, but the midfield holding role is neither a (remotely) recent tactical innovation nor one perfected by Claude Makélélé. You could do with broadening your horizons a bit if you think that...

The position is probably as old as the game itself and has undergone numerous variations, from the old-style centre-half to the German libero who sat in front of, rather than behind, the central defenders.

If anything, the role is somewhat anachronistic in the modern game. Most top teams prefer to have two energetic central midfielders who can alternate between attack and defence, or deploy a deep-lying playmaker (known in Italy as a regista) alongside a ball-winner. The canonical example of the latter being Pirlo and Gattuso at Milan.

Neil Lennon is a fairly typical British holding midfielder; I imagine if you drew a graph of his movements during the course of a game the result would be somewhat similar to what happens when you see a horse tethered to a stake overnight; in the morning, the lighter area of grass describes a perfect circle around a fixed central point.

[John83]

...The canonical example of the latter being Pirlo and Gattuso at Milan...
Gattuso plays on the right for Milan, but you're essentially correct. Even in recent history, you had players like Hagi and Gascoigne who were deep playmakers.

The reason for the current fashion in the English game is Mourinho's setup at Chelsea, which gives extra freedom to the wingers by maintaining a strong grip on the middle.

[Dodge]

The reason for the current fashion in the English game is Mourinho's setup at Chelsea, which gives extra freedom to the wingers by maintaining a strong grip on the middle.

I think the French world cup winning side was the first I saw with 2 holding midfielders (Deschamps/makele and Petit/Viera) but of course they had the ultimate No 10 in Zidane.

I love the Barcelona midfielder Xavi when he plays the deep role. Himself and Deco are probably the two cleverest midfielders in the world. Pirlo, of course, is the ideal deep playmaker

[jebus]

I think the French world cup winning side was the first I saw with 2 holding midfielders (Deschamps/makele and Petit/Viera) but of course they had the ultimate No 10 in Zidane.

I love the Barcelona midfielder Xavi when he plays the deep role. Himself and Deco are probably the two cleverest midfielders in the world. Pirlo, of course, is the ideal deep playmaker


That's the key to playing two holding midfield players though, you need a Zidane, or even a player half as good, to take over the entire offensive CM duties. It's what could be the making of Liverpool if you ask me. If Torres clicks and they were able to sign a Deco type player (or Deco himself), they could play Mascherano and Alonos as two holding midfielders, and throw Gerrard out the right, where he could even interchange with the number 10 during the match to confuse defences

[Stuttgart88]

No offence to either of you, but the midfield holding role is neither a (remotely) recent tactical innovation nor one perfected by Claude Makélélé. You could do with broadening your horizons a bit if you think that...

The position is probably as old as the game itself and has undergone numerous variations, from the old-style centre-half to the German libero who sat in front of, rather than behind, the central defenders.

If anything, the role is somewhat anachronistic in the modern game. Most top teams prefer to have two energetic central midfielders who can alternate between attack and defence, or deploy a deep-lying playmaker (known in Italy as a regista) alongside a ball-winner. The canonical example of the latter being Pirlo and Gattuso at Milan.

Neil Lennon is a fairly typical British holding midfielder; I imagine if you drew a graph of his movements during the course of a game the result would be somewhat similar to what happens when you see a horse tethered to a stake overnight; in the morning, the lighter area of grass describes a perfect circle around a fixed central point.
Well said. I drives me mad that everyone talks about the necessity for a holding midfielder yet nobody understands the various nuances or variations involved. It's like us having one word for snow yet the eskimos have 40 (or whatever!). The more you understand it the more ways you need of describing it.


I like to use more descriptive terms for midfielders: ball winner, ball user, deep lying playmaker, advanced playmaker, ball carrier, box-to-box and so on. It's not as if any one style of player is necessary for a team to function. The balance and effectiveness of the CM partnership is the key.

I hate the term myself and in my opinion it's simply trendy nomenclature.

[noby]

I think the French world cup winning side was the first I saw with 2 holding midfielders (Deschamps/makele and Petit/Viera) but of course they had the ultimate No 10 in Zidane.

I love the Barcelona midfielder Xavi when he plays the deep role. Himself and Deco are probably the two cleverest midfielders in the world. Pirlo, of course, is the ideal deep playmaker
Brazil also like playing that way. In the 90's you had Dunga and <name escapes me now> sitting in front of the two centre backs, and everyone else bombing forward.

[Roadend]

For example Owen Hargreaves was routinely jeered in England before they decided Lampard and Gerrard couldn't play together and they needed that holder. He's all the rage now.


Hargreaves runs around a lot and can't pass threateningly worth a damn. Is this what a holding player is?

[John83]

Hargreaves runs around a lot and can't pass threateningly worth a damn. Is this what a holding player is?
He's there to interfere with breaks, to act as a fifth defender when needed, to deny space to midfielders on the attack, and to give the ball quickly to someone who can pass threateningly worth a damn. It's a fairly simple concept.

[Roadend]

Like when King and Carragher played like that for England and were castigated but Hargreaves was brilliant? Yes very simple indeed:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Dodge]

Brazil also like playing that way. In the 90's you had Dunga and <name escapes me now> sitting in front of the two centre backs, and everyone else bombing forward.

if only they bombed forward. Worst brazil side ever... Worst world cup winners in recent history too

[noby]

Well that was the theory anyway.

[Dodge]

True enough...

[Risteard]

They're not necessary at all but a good one of them will get an amazing amount of work done such as Gamble.
Essien is probably the worlds most useful player imo.
Himself or Makelele allow Lampard to hang around the goalbox like an U-8 indoor soccer match.
A holding midfielder and playmaker is a good route to go down if you're two midfielders lack pace. Alternatively,if you've two defensive midfielders (a la Makelele and Conceicao), its pretty much a free reign for your wingers.

[John83]

Like when King and Carragher played like that for England and were castigated but Hargreaves was brilliant? Yes very simple indeed:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
The word concept is just noise to you isn't it?

[Jaime]

Giles commented last week that if you have enough ball-playing midfielders you simply don't need a holding midfielder. Which is assuming too much, as a midfielder who can run all day and tackle well will always make life very difficult for even the best ball-playing midfielders.

[Roadend]

The word concept is just noise to you isn't it?

Three players playing with the same concept, and playing as well as each other. The concept is wrong in two cases and right in one case apparently. If I can make it any simpler for you please let me know.

[superfrank]

I remember Giles was shown up for how little he knows of modern football last year when Brady had to explain to him how the Argentine midfield of Mascherano and Riquelme worked.

[Jaime]

"He's a good player he's not as great player" :)

"He plays a different roooooole Joooooohn" :mad:

[eirebhoy]

As a Celtic supporter we're having quite a change around this season with the archetype holding player, Neil Lennon, gone to be replaced by a more dynamic looking CM in Brown and Donati. Neither is an out and out holder or defensive mid and (early days I know) we seem to be playing far speedier, more inventive football.
They pair of them really are splitting the duties 50/50. Really good partnership so far.

There's 2 main types of holding midfielder. The combative, less technically gifted type (Makelele, Lennon, Carsley). And the deep lying playmaker (Pirlo, Alonso, Xavi).

imo the main job of a holding midfielder is to always be in the best possible position to receive a pass. That's it. He doesn't need to be a great tackler, Pirlo can hardly tackle. Too many people think of the holding midfielder as the player who's main duties are defensive. Gattuso's main work is defensive and he's not a holding midfielder. Sissoko is similar.

[John83]

Three players playing with the same concept, and playing as well as each other. The concept is wrong in two cases and right in one case apparently. If I can make it any simpler for you please let me know.
I haven't seen either of the defenders playing that role, so you'll forgive me for being sceptical that they played as well there as a midfielder. If they did play as well as Hargreaves, I'd put it down to whiny English fans looking for someone to blame.

[stojkovic]

The holding midfielder has been around for years - Nobby Stiles, Bremner/Giles, Souness, Tardelli, McMahon/Whelan and the best of all - Beckenbauer who started in front of the back four before playing behind it, his role was more attacking and was termed - libero.

The thing about Makelele is that he very rarely goes forward and you rarely seeing him knocking forty yard passes. He is limited as a player but is very effective in what he does.

I doubt if Italians, Spanish and South Americans refer to "The Makelele Role", its purely more Premier League bullsh$t.

[Angus]

For years, Man U were very effectove at getting the ball to Giggs / Becks who dropped the ball into the "D" from just inside the oppo's half.

Yorke / Cole / Shero / Ole / Eric would step over it, it would hit somebody on the ass, the defence would have no idea how to play it, scholes would run on to the confusion and would score.

The europeans, and Wenger, sussed this and played either 3 centre halves (the third of which is your holding player) or played a really deep midfielder (Viera / Petit / Guardiola etc) who would stop that ball coming in.

This role, whatver you call it is deployed by most decent sides - look at how effdective Hamann has been for Citeh this season.....