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NeilMcD
05/08/2007, 8:14 PM
Not sure where to put this but its a great article, hits the nail on the head in a balanced way.


Sunshine supporters reign on

Paddy Come Latelys should look closer to home for focus of adulation
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Sunday August 05 2007

THERE was something extremely dispiriting about the fact that Bohemians, Galway United and Cork City drew their biggest crowds of the season to a pointless trilogy of friendlies against Sunderland.

It was even more dispiriting to see the media hype surrounding these kickabouts (one particular newspaper which normally seems to take a perverse delight in ignoring domestic soccer gave more coverage to Roy Keane's press conferences than it would ever give to a whole weekend of eircom League action.)

Bohs, Cork and Galway will all host genuinely exciting matches this season, matches which actually have something at stake (honours for the first two, the avoidance of relegation for Nick Leeson's crew). Yet they won't attract anything like the crowds which packed Dalymount, Terryland and Turner's Cross last week to see a not particularly distinguished foreign team play at half-pace in warm-up games, the results of which did not matter one iota.

You can't consider yourself a genuine fan unless you make the effort to support the domestic game

If you're one of the people whose only sight of an eircom League ground comes when an English team visits, shame on you. Because you can't consider yourself a genuine fan unless you make the effort to support the domestic game. It is, after all, where Roy Keane got his start.

The hoopla surrounding Sunderland may be the most graphic illustration yet of how shallow the attachment of many Irish fans to teams across the water really is. This time last year there wasn't a Sunderland jersey to be seen in this country. Now, as if by magic, you can hardly move for self-proclaimed fans of the Wearsiders. As Niall Quinn likes to put it, "the brand is growing".

Apparently all it takes for the fan gene to click in is the appointment of a famous Irish manager. How trivial can you get? One minute you're a supporter of Manchester United or Everton or Newcastle United. One managerial change and a small bit of success later and you're in love with Sunderland. It flies in the face of what supporting a team should be all about, namely the loyalty which enables you to stick with them through thick and thin and makes the victories seem earned when they do come along.

Then again the Irish soccer fan can be a fickle character. Supporters of Keane were in the minority back around the time of Saipan. It took a couple of disappointing results for Mick McCarthy before the majority swung round to the idea that the Corkman had been traduced by the manager and the FAI. At the moment Keane is something of a secular saint, hence the rush to touch the hem of his garment last week. He certainly looks to have the right stuff to make it as a manager at the top level but he will probably need a better club than Sunderland to fully achieve his potential.

And when Keane moves on from the Stadium of Light? The erstwhile Sunderland fans who turned up in their box fresh stripy jerseys at Dalymount, Terryland and Turner's Cross will go with him. Especially if it looks like he's going to win something at the new club. Sunshine Supporters are like that.

Perhaps I'm being unfair to those people who have formed a genuine attachment to foreign clubs and have maintained this for years. Perhaps, but they still mystify me. The eircom League has its problems but take in enough matches in a season and you'll witness more than a few thrillers. In any event, there is a vicious circle effect going on here. People who make the lame excuse that they never go to local football because the standard isn't as good as they're accustomed to seeing on Sky don't seem to realise that if attendances were bigger the clubs would have more money to spend on players and the standard would improve rapidly. It's the stay away fans who keep the league in relative weakness.

For all our love of nationalist rhetoric, the post-colonial mentality still plays its part in Irish society. Witness the almost indecent excitement about Bertie Ahern being invited to address the House of Commons. The English parliament shouldn't impress us any more than the French, the German or the Swedish. But it does. And the Premiership shouldn't cast such a spell over Irish fans. But it does. This is what the Australians used to call, 'The Cultural Cringe'.

The sad fact is that attendances at League of Ireland (as it was then) matches began a precipitous decline when televised English soccer became a fixture on the nation's goggle boxes. Seduced by the event glamour generated by the mass media, fans weren't happy with the native product any more. Local clubs have been fighting a rearguard action ever since.

That faithful band of supporters who continue to resist the blandishments of the big league across the water and who are patronised, mocked and condescended to for their loyalty are, in my view, heroes. They saw Keane at Cobh Ramblers, Daryl Murphy at Waterford United and will have known from first hand experience just why the Sunderland manager is so excited about Roy O'Donovan.

As for the Foreign Football First brigade, well perhaps they should take a leaf out of their GAA counterparts' book. Fans of Wicklow, Carlow and Leitrim don't desert en masse to support Kerry footballers and Kilkenny hurlers because that particular bandwagon is more congenial. It's an odd irony that people are lionised for following their local teams in football and hurling and ridiculed for it in soccer.

It's not even as though there was anything particularly special on offer this week in Dalymount, Terryland and Turner's Cross. In my younger days I worked as a reporter on local papers in Essex and Hertfordshire. Pre-season, the likes of West Ham, Spurs and QPR would venture beyond the M25 to play the same kind of warm-up games everyone has been getting so excited about over the last week. No one took them that seriously or thought that Purfleet's 3-0 victory over QPR or Grays Athletic's 0-0 draw with West Ham United meant anything other than that the professional teams hadn't been particularly arsed that evening.

These days we're exhorted to believe that these friendlies mean something. The season starts earlier and earlier, teams play in pointless multi-national tournaments for meaningless silverware or embark on gruelling overseas trips which have less to do with football than with the promotion of commercial opportunities for the bloated corporate entities which the big clubs have become.

Those pre-season matches are just one example of how phoney the English game has become

Meanwhile, the propaganda from the television companies for whose benefit a lot of these games are put on tries to persuade us that these matches are something more than glorified training sessions.

Yet it won't be long into the season before managers are complaining about the demands on their players and suggesting that there are too many games in the season. This after carting their teams from pillar to post when the players would have been better off with a few weeks extra rest. Those pre-season matches are just one example of how phoney the English game has become with its culture of increasingly dodgy foreign owners, its merciless maximising of corporate income, its remorseless hard sell and its ever increasing tendency towards self perpetuating oligarchy.

If that's the game to which you want to pledge your allegiance, go right ahead. But the first thought of those genuine, lifelong and local Sunderland fans you'll be meeting this season won't be how great it is to see you suddenly supporting their team. Instead they'll wonder why all these Paddy Come Latelys aren't following their own clubs.

Will you have a good answer ready for them? Is there one?

thephotograph@hotmail.com

cheifo
05/08/2007, 9:03 PM
Good article.Will be interested in seeing what his mucker Declan Lynch will say about it.Good job posting that up Neil.Deserves to be in EL forum.

Neish
05/08/2007, 9:44 PM
Great article

Bluebeard
06/08/2007, 8:48 AM
I didn't think I'd be saying it of the Sindo, but that is a very well put forward pro eL article that smacks of research, avoids sensationalism, and asks a few interesting questions.

As a matter of interest, who wrote it?

cheifo
06/08/2007, 11:50 AM
Eamon Sweeney.

el punter
06/08/2007, 11:58 AM
The article reads like it could have been lifted from this forum. I don't mean that in any negative way at all, just that it's very much the sentiment of vast majority of those on foot.ie

I'm very pleased to see such an article in a sunday national paper.

NeilMcD
06/08/2007, 12:16 PM
I was not sure where to put it and I dont mind where it goes but I thought it might provoke more debate on the World Football forum.

galwayhoop
06/08/2007, 2:41 PM
unfortunately it is unlikely to ever reach those to whom it has so much relevance ... unless mr. sweeney gets it printed in the 'Irish' Sun!!!!

Torn-Ado
06/08/2007, 2:49 PM
Good article. I am amazed at this Irish Sunderland supporters ststement.

I haven't been in Ireland too much since Keane took over as manager. Is there really a large increase in Sunderland supporters at home?

gustavo
06/08/2007, 4:12 PM
I cant imagine Dion Fanning being too pleased with that article

CJTheGull
06/08/2007, 5:23 PM
I have to say the Sunday Indo is most probably the worst newspaper that has ever existed in this country - where is the news in it? It's all articles by Z-list celebs and D4 heads rabbitin' on about Rosanna Davidson or whatever her name is. Anyway good article - now if you's will excuse me I'm off to buy The Sunday World.

Plastic Paddy
06/08/2007, 6:05 PM
Did you oversleep or what, CJ? You're a day late... :)

:ball: PP

stojkovic
06/08/2007, 6:50 PM
I dont really think we should be getting too over excited.
Remember all those Blackburn Rovers jerseys a few years ago and YOUNG Leeds fans too. Where are they all now.

Was in shops today and didnt see any Sunderland jerseys. Saw plenty of ones for Barcelona, Boca, Valencia, Milan, Madrid, Spurs aswell as the usual suspects Liverpool, United and Celtic.

I'm also involved in schoolboy teams and I havnt seen one single Sunderland jersey down training in all teams from u5s upto u17s.

The most popular jerseys by far are Barcelona and Liverpool.

galwayhoop
07/08/2007, 10:54 AM
Was in shops today and didnt see any Sunderland jerseys. Saw plenty of ones for Barcelona, Boca, Valencia, Milan, Madrid, Spurs aswell as the usual suspects Liverpool, United and Celtic.


they could all be sold out ;)

jebus
07/08/2007, 1:13 PM
I dont really think we should be getting too over excited.
Remember all those Blackburn Rovers jerseys a few years ago and YOUNG Leeds fans too. Where are they all now.

That misses the point completely. We all now this Sunderland fad will pass, but the former Blackburn, Leeds, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd bandwagon jumpers will hop on to another English team and we will continue in this merry-go-round until the Eircom League shuffles off completely into the distance

reder
07/08/2007, 1:14 PM
Calm down lads. Sunderland will fall on their arses pretty quickly and the whole feel-good factor and fair weather support will die. I actually can see Keane throwing a tantrum and walking out blaming everyone else. Their game against Spurs this weekend isnt even sold out.

I agree with this person regarding the changing face of English football. This season is the first in decades in which I have no intention of travelling to a Liverpool away game. Dont even have a home season ticket anymore. Thing is there are about 40,000 beauts on a waiting list with LFC who will gladly take it.

Jofspring
07/08/2007, 2:08 PM
its a great article. i would love to see some of the people that go around talking about how they are true soccer fans and then don't even support there local senior soccer team have a read through that article.

reder
08/08/2007, 8:05 AM
its a great article. i would love to see some of the people that go around talking about how they are true soccer fans and then don't even support there local senior soccer team have a read through that article.

The game is called football.

Jofspring
08/08/2007, 8:55 AM
how pedantic of you

Billy Lord
08/08/2007, 9:25 AM
I think Ireland should push for bandwagon-jumping to become an Olympic event. The 'Best fans in the world'.:rolleyes: would be guaranteed gold every time.

Billsthoughts
13/08/2007, 11:22 AM
There was a kind of thinly veiled response to this in yesterdays indo from Dion Fanning who seems to be one of the biggest Sunderland cheerleaders. Basically saying watchin football on TV is just as valid as watching it live. Seems to have serious issues with EL fans who he portrays as kinda elitist snobs. I dont have a link to it, maybe someone else can link to it. The title was soemthing along the lines of " premiership is part of who we are.

gustavo
13/08/2007, 12:11 PM
Self preservation on Fannings part, it's all he writes about so of course he going to say its super

Neish
13/08/2007, 1:43 PM
Saw a bit on the news there yesterday showing all the so called Sunderland fans heading over to the match from Ireland. Chatting about the great craic on the plane. I wonder how many of these people will still be Sunderland fans after a few years when Keane goes elsewhere.

Bluebeard
13/08/2007, 4:41 PM
There was a kind of thinly veiled response to this in yesterdays indo from Dion Fanning who seems to be one of the biggest Sunderland cheerleaders. Basically saying watchin football on TV is just as valid as watching it live. Seems to have serious issues with EL fans who he portrays as kinda elitist snobs. I dont have a link to it, maybe someone else can link to it. The title was soemthing along the lines of " premiership is part of who we are.

How elite-ist we are, in our state of the art stadia, watching premium level over-paid footballers who couldn't get work abroad for clubs run by suspect businessmen, paying a small fortune for tickets for a very poor return, forever thinking that we are watching the very highest grade of football available on the face of the planet, when in reality it is the Emperors New Clothes.

We are talking about Galway United, yes?

pete
13/08/2007, 11:11 PM
Saw a bit on the news there yesterday showing all the so called Sunderland fans heading over to the match from Ireland. Chatting about the great craic on the plane. I wonder how many of these people will still be Sunderland fans after a few years when Keane goes elsewhere.

On the Newstalk Travel section of George Hook show they mentioned a charter day trip for E500. Who in their right mind would pay that for a day trip (out & back on the same day).

:rolleyes:

reder
14/08/2007, 7:55 AM
Aparently Cork airport was full of them. No surprise there.

galwayhoop
14/08/2007, 2:40 PM
Who in their right mind would pay that for a day trip (out & back on the same day).


thanks there pete for explaining to us all what a day trip is! :D:D

NeilMcD
14/08/2007, 11:11 PM
Part of what we are, whether we want to admit it or not

DION FANNING THAT WAS THE WEEK
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Sunday August 12 2007

LAST week was mainly about rituals, as it always is when man prepares for a sacred thing.

The football might have started yesterday, but when the Racing Post's preview of the season is published a few days before I always feel things are up and running. This is not just because it marks the exact moment when I begin to lose money but it brings substance and depth to all the theory.

Once I have studied a learned article or two, flushed out with some detailed analysis and a recommendation to 'sell' on the appropriate markets, about the drop in the number of offsides per game, I feel I am ready for whatever is to come. In matters concerning punting and football, I am prepared to fail but I will not have failed to prepare.

I read in awe of the 'shrewdies' who have spotted the kind of return you don't get at the Bradford & Bingley. They pounced when Torquay were priced up to win the Blue Square Premier at 16/1 (don't look for it, it's not there any more) and I wonder, like I marvel at men who have made several fortunes from inventing something like a cushion for a toilet seat, about their perspicacity.

But, as with all vibrant religions, tradition is not a relic, it is ever-changing, and much of it still revolves around Saturday evening Mass, or what we call Match of the Day. Even now, even with Gary Lineker, Alan Shearer and Lee Dixon eager to say nothing at all and to say it as badly as possible; even with its bad politics and its spinelessness, there is something holy about Match of the Day.

At this time of year, it comforts us like all faith should. It says, 'You are not alone'. For this reason, some of the advancements in technology bring us even closer to perfect happiness.

Those of you who have Sky Plus boxes will know that, not since penicillin has a discovery done so much to heal and bring hope. What penicillin did for the body, Sky Plus does for the human heart. As I 'series-link' Match of the Day I achieve some sort of peace of mind, secure in the knowledge that - except when there is a system meltdown or a break for internationals - MOTD will be recorded for evermore. Or until May.

There are those who think that somehow experiencing something through television is not experiencing it all. Of course, they are usually driven by a deep ideological devotion to the League of Ireland and they ask how a man from, say, Dundalk can support Liverpool? They wonder if this Dundalk man would cheer Rafael Benitez's side against his hometown club?

Of course this dilemma may arise at most once in his lifetime so it is not a pressing issue, certainly not as pressing as the deep and complex problems of our time, such as should one subscribe to both Sky and Setanta? Family men, in particular, have been rent asunder by this conundrum.

It is a joyous time for most at the end of a long summer. This column took the bold recourse over the past few months of turning to the GAA for solace and, it has to be said, was not disappointed.

Recently I conducted two conversations with Dublin taxi drivers on matters of the Gael and I think I came out adequately. As they were Dublin taxi drivers, of course they did most of the talking, but my well-timed interjections - "I wouldn't rule Cork out of it yet" or "Meath are the ones to watch" (I had taken some counsel on that one) - were met, if not with enthusiasm, at least without scorn.

But there is an ecumenical heart beating in most Irish sports people. Elsewhere, I heard conversations which began by dissecting the failings of the Offaly hurling manager, before moving on to the chances of the Offaly U-21s against Dublin (I was in Offaly at the time), touched on Girvan Dempsey (father played for Kinnitty) before ending, almost as passionately, with a detailed analysis of Didier Drogba's strengths and weaknesses as a centre-forward.

Of course the GAA is at the heart of this talk and drives the community. It is special, but we are not unique. Go to Barbados and listen as they talk of the local cricketers and compare them to the players that went before. In Sunderland or Liverpool or Manchester, they will not consider their conversations lacking in authenticity or passion because they talk about players who are millionaires. It may become a stick to beat the players with, but when supporters talk about those who aren't rich, or aren't paid at all, they just find other sticks.

The people who gather across Ireland this winter, fretting about Liverpool or Manchester United, or wondering about Sunderland have sporting interests equally as valid as the Eircom League supporter, some of whom want to feel both victimised and superior.

Nationalism in its most brutish (is there any other kind?) proclaims one nation's superiority over another. Cultural nationalism is no better. English football is part of what we are and most people accept this as easily as they accept the other pleasures in their lives. Those who ask us not to believe the hype of the Premiership are often most eager to propagate the myths of Gaelic games. The rest of us are as tolerant of the games' contradictions as we usually are of our own.

dionfanning@gmail.com

reder
15/08/2007, 8:53 AM
Who in their right mind would pay that for a day trip (out & back on the same day).

:rolleyes:

The same people who pay a travel agent €1000 for 2 nights in Bratislava or some touting git €750 for an Ireland v England rugby match.

Heading home for the Chelsea game on Sunday with my brother, just know the airport and plane is going to be a blast. :rolleyes: Although the centre of Manchester should be interesting at about 12 with the Manc derby on that day.

Jerry The Saint
15/08/2007, 10:01 AM
The football might have started yesterday, but when the Racing Post's preview of the season is published a few days before I always feel things are up and running

...

As I 'series-link' Match of the Day I achieve some sort of peace of mind, secure in the knowledge that - except when there is a system meltdown or a break for internationals - MOTD will be recorded for evermore. Or until May.

...

The people who gather across Ireland this winter, fretting about Liverpool or Manchester United, or wondering about Sunderland have sporting interests equally as valid as the Eircom League supporter, some of whom want to feel both victimised and superior.


:D Nice article, Dion. Daddy must be very proud. :)


Didn't want to dignify it with a separate thread but Newstalk's resident "Football Expert" Ken Earley got caught out last night when someone texted in and asked him to name 10 eircom league players...


Ray Treacy

Paul Osam

Wes Hoolahan

George Best

Bobby Charlton


Even more embarassing was his interview with Roy O'Donovan after news of the Fulham deal broke. Obviously he had only just heard of Roy so he was reduced to asking questions like


Will you miss home? Will you miss your dog, if you have one?

Disgraceful that people can make a living talking/writing about soccer in this country without even a basic knowledge of the highest level of football here. The Newstalk thing is particularly annoying as they consider 15 minutes of banter with a self-important unemployed plasterer to be adequate coverage to give the league out of 15 hours a week on their Off The Ball show.

NeilMcD
15/08/2007, 10:35 AM
Ken Earley is a knob and his humour is of the lowest form. He is just a sneer who just takes the **** out of things without adding any sort of contribution to life in anyway. T

NY Hoop
15/08/2007, 12:06 PM
Earley knows nothing about the game but what do you expect from listening to radio anyway?

"The people who gather across Ireland this winter, fretting about Liverpool or Manchester United, or wondering about Sunderland have sporting interests equally as valid as the Eircom League supporter, some of whom want to feel both victimised and superior."

What a moron. How can cheering one english side against another in a pub be equally as valid as actually supporting an Irish club? As one Hoop said to me after the great celebrations when Myler scored against Derry "Barstoolers would never understand this."

Fair play for putting the article up with said clowns email address!

KOH