IRELAND v ENGLAND

[Real ale Madrid]

Who do people think will win the match on Sunday? Even people who hate mud-eaters and egg chasers will have some kind of interest in this one.

It's going to be huge. Ireland to win by 3pts.

[patsh]

Originally posted by Real ale Madrid
Ireland to win by 3pts.
????
Are the Sassenach fielding an international GAA team now??:confused:

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by oddboy
????
Are the Sassenach fielding an international GAA team now??:confused:

Oddboy, leave the sarcasm/ignorance (not much difference in your case) out of it for once.
I agree with Real ale Madrid, this one is going to be HUGE. With all 15 up for it, Big Vic at #6, a massive performance, and just a little luck I can see Ireland doing it. Probably by not much more than 1 point, though. Wouldn't that do just fine, says you?

[Badweather Fan]

Are England odds on?
Not that wised up but from what i can gather its gonna be a heart-wrenching humiliation,ya?
Thats why i'm not gonna get too excited about it.

[Macy]

We would've had an outside chance had O'Sullivan biten the bullet and brought in O'Gara for Humphreys..... Now I reckon England by 20 points....

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by Badweather Fan
Are England odds on?
Not that wised up but from what i can gather its gonna be a heart-wrenching humiliation,ya?


England ARE odds on, like they have been to do the last 7 Grand Slams, yet, 1995 is the last year they actually won the GS. Yes, they may be near invincible at home, but, they are vulnerable away. Plus, at the end of the day, it's 15 men v's 15 men. History calls, Ireland to win.
Macy, I'd love to know what it is you're smoking. There's nothing like a 20 point gap between the two teams. England have miserably failed to impress this season, so, there are no grounds for making such a ridiculously sweeping statement.

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by Conor74
Dunno about history SEJ. Now the War of Independence, THAT was history. The Gulf War WILL be history. But a rugby match will be, at best, "sporting history", maybe just "rugby history", and probably just "rugby union history in Ireland 2002-2005".

Except Ireland haven't won the Slam since 1948, and this just happens to be our best chance since. That kind of gives you an idea of the magnitude of this particular achievement should Ireland win on Sunday.

[Macy]

Hope I'm wrong, but England are coming back to form, whilst I struggle to see how Ireland can turn around a poor Championship performance, even in Lansdowne.... As we have all championship, I think we'll struggle to get the backs moving with Humphreys at out half, whilst with Dawson back, and Wilkinson being the ever reliable tw@t that he is, I can see England walking it..... Maybe I exaggerated the difference, but I think there will be more than two scores in the difference..... :(

[patsh]

Originally posted by Shed End John
Oddboy, leave the sarcasm/ignorance (not much difference in your case) out of it for once.

You are such a little assh*le...:rolleyes:
Your rude, humourless boorishness certainly sums up the image of the average rugger bugger..:rolleyes:

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by oddboy
You are such a little assh*le...:rolleyes:
Your rude, humourless boorishness certainly sums up the image of the average rugger bugger..:rolleyes:

Thanks very much, oddboy. Never knew you held me in such high regard. I might just have to put you on my Christmas card list now.:p
Conor, I agree that the Brits are favourites by right. On the other hand, Landsdowne Road is the last place England or anyone would like to go to looking for a result. Ireland have shown themselves to be just as capable of grinding out a result this season. This game certainly won't be pretty, but, I can see us nicking it and so much the better if we actually do.

[Schumi]

This will quite simply be the biggest rugby game in Ireland ever and I can't wait. Macy is right, the selection of Humphries could put us at a disadvantage as he has less ability to get the backs moving. Having said that, the management will presumably have the cop on not to kick the ball to England so it may not be such a huge problem. O'Gara should have started though.

Victor Costello will be a vital player as the best way to counteract England's defensive system is to get them moving backwards so they can't be on top of our runners when the ball is moved. His runs of the base of the scrum/ruck should tie in their defenders and give B O'D and co. some room out wide.

[Macy]

Originally posted by Shed End John
I agree that the Brits are favourites
I'm sure Humphreys and Longwell will be delighted to hear that! It's England we're playing, not Britain.... (and before anyone starts I know that the North isn't Britain, but it'd kinda ruin getting at SEJ :) )

[SÓC]

Originally posted by Macy
I'm sure Humphreys and Longwell will be delighted to hear that! It's England we're playing, not Britain.... (and before anyone starts I know that the North isn't Britain, but it'd kinda ruin getting at SEJ :) )

Im sure Humphreys considers himself British, Paddy Johns wrote in his book about how he found it hard to bare that Irish Rugby fans in general we very reluctant to accept that some players from Ulster consider thenselves British as well as Irish.

I'd say England will win it, IMO Humphreys kicks far too much ball that he could pass to our backs, people like Murphy and O'Driscoll trive on the kinda passes O'Gara throws out to them.

We are too weak in the front row and Justin Bishop isnt up to much, I hope the Landsdowne Road factor will lift them but I dont think it will be enough.

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by Macy
I'm sure Humphreys and Longwell will be delighted to hear that! It's England we're playing, not Britain.... (and before anyone starts I know that the North isn't Britain, but it'd kinda ruin getting at SEJ :) )

Point taken, Macy but, to be honest, I've NEVER used the term Brits and meant anything other than the English. Not that I've anything against them, Hell I have English relatives, it's just that like any red-blooded Irishman, when England come to town.......it's WAR!!
SÓCcfc, since when could a front row of John Hayes, Emmet Byrne and Marcus Horan possibly be considered too weak for international level??:confused:

[Schumi]

Originally posted by Shed End John
since when could a front row of John Hayes, Emmet Byrne and Marcus Horan possibly be considered too weak for international level?? 3 props on Sunday is it?! :D

The front row were under a lot of pressure against Wales. Although England probably won't be as strong, Corrigan will still be a loss.

[SÓC]

Originally posted by Shed End John

SÓCcfc, since when could a front row of John Hayes, Emmet Byrne and Marcus Horan possibly be considered too weak for international level??:confused:


Horan is not built like a prop should be, he's very unexperienced at international level and get penalised a fair bit in the scrum.

SHANE Byrne;) is just a Blackrock boy who let a mullet get in the way of a rugby career, in the past he's had serious trouble finding his man in the line-out but he seems to have sorted it for now.

Hayes, classy player, no complaints there. I'd be more confident if we have Corrigan and Woody, lets put it that way.

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by SÓCcfc
Horan is not built like a prop should be, he's very unexperienced at international level and get penalised a fair bit in the scrum.

SHANE Byrne;) is just a Blackrock boy who let a mullet get in the way of a rugby career, in the past he's had serious trouble finding his man in the line-out but he seems to have sorted it for now.


I have absolutely NO reservations about Horan at all. He's more than good enough, and in the Munster/Gloucester match at Thomond Park, he totally dominated Phil Vickery, despite at 16 1/2 stone giving away 3 stone to Vickery.
Byrne has been a rock this season. Definitely our most improved. Strong in the scrum, flawless at the line-out, he won't back off against England.
I've every confidence in Ireland's ability to win this one.

[Schumi]

Originally posted by SÓCcfc
SHANE Byrne;) is just a Blackrock boy who let a mullet get in the way of a rugby career, in the past he's had serious trouble finding his man in the line-out but he seems to have sorted it for now ... I'd be more confident if we have Corrigan and Woody I think Shane Byrne is a more than adequate replacement for Wood. His line out throwing is much more reliable than Wood's and Costello does the open field work as well.

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by Schumi
I think Shane Byrne is a more than adequate replacement for Wood. His line out throwing is much more reliable than Wood's

Definitely wouldn't agree with you there, Schumi. There's no doubt that he is a good replacement for Wood, but, I think it's time we stopped thinking of Byrne in those terms. IMO, due to accumulation of injuries, we'll never see Keith Wood in an Irish jersey again.

[Macy]

tbh I sometimes thought that Wood tried to do too much, and we've had one of our best ever runs without him in the team.... Shane Byrne is more than an adequate replacement, and essentially does the hookers job as well as Wood....
There's been very little talk of us missing Wood by any commentator/ opposition during the championship, which shows the level that Byrne has been playing at....
Keith Wood made the decision to play the extra games for more bucks in England, his fitness has been the cost for that...

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by Macy
tbh I sometimes thought that Wood tried to do too much,


Keith Wood made the decision to play the extra games for more bucks in England, his fitness has been the cost for that...

That's because for far too long, Ireland were hopelessly s***e and Wood invariably had to carry the team. His fitness has gone the tubes simply because both at club AND international level, he gave so much in every game for so long. As sad as the situation is, we might as well acknowledge that all those years have finally caught up with KW, be proud that one of the greatest hookers EVER played in green in our lifetime, and start building for the World Cup without him.

[SÓC]

The talk is that Wood will be back in time for the world cup and IMO should take his place in the front row if he is fit.

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by SÓCcfc
The talk is that Wood will be back in time for the world cup and IMO should take his place in the front row if he is fit.

If he is fit, then most certainly, and as captain being the talisman he is. I can't help wondering, though, if he'll be the same. Remember the talent that was Philip Long? He was NEVER the same player after he broke his leg, and his career went steadily downhill. I wouldn't at all like to see the same thing happen Keith Wood.

[Macy]

Originally posted by Shed End John
His fitness has gone the tubes simply because both at club AND international level, he gave so much in every game for so long.

He had his best season in his last year with Munster - since going back to the week in week out high tempo English matches his fitness has suffered.....

Not dissing his previous performances particularly, but IMO should he be back for the world cup and Byrne can continue at his current performance levels, he should not be automatic first choice....

[Schumi]

Originally posted by Macy
Not dissing his previous performances particularly, but IMO should he be back for the world cup and Byrne can continue at his current performance levels, he should not be automatic first choice.... He probably should start but I agree that he shouldn't be automatic 1st choice.

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by Macy
He had his best season in his last year with Munster - since going back to the week in week out high tempo English matches his fitness has suffered.....

Not dissing his previous performances particularly, but IMO should he be back for the world cup and Byrne can continue at his current performance levels, he should not be automatic first choice....

The English AND the Southern Hemisphere teams both seem to suffer as a result of the tempo they play the game at. How many players of, say, 32+ do you see in England/Australia/NZ in comparison with here.
Fair point about Wood, but, at the first sign of REAL trouble, i wouldn't hesitate to pull Byrne out and stick Wood in, no disrespect to Byrne. Keith Wood has the experience, and if he's fit and hasn't lost his touch, then we all know who the better man will be when the chips are down at the World Cup.

[Real ale Madrid]

As seen as I started this thread I'll reply to a few of the points made.

1. The point that only 3 Irishmen would get into the England team.
I disagree slightly, Geordan Murphy would get in the England team as well with Stinger, O'Driscoll, O'Kelly. O'Gara/Humphries would be 2nd choice to Wlikinson and we have quality and dept all over the pitch. But so have England

2. Our supposedly bad front row. Our front row have done very well throughout the 6 nations. With the exeption of that gowl of a ref Steve Lander in Cardiff where Wales were illegally pushing and turning as well as binding upwards all day. It was criminal. There will be no repeat of those shenanigans on Sunday.

3. Keith Wood is the greatest player in the world when fit and MUST start if fit. He will have a great world cup.

England are the best team in the world. No question. But at home i think well squeak home and a mighty session will follow.

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by Real ale Madrid
England are the best team in the world. No question. But at home i think well squeak home and a mighty session will follow.

Sounds good. Might just be going to college on Monday with a MAJOR headache. Lovely!!:D
COME ON YOU BOYS IN GREEN

[pete]

I think even people "dislike" rubgy will tune in on sunday just to get the chance to see England lose in Dublin.

:D

btw such is the intensity of modern rugby you will firmer players in their 40s crocked vos of the punishment over the years. This has already started to happen with football but to a lesser extent.

[James]

just went and had a look at dat rugby.ie message board and theres more talk here on a foot.ie site about egg chasing then they have on the official egg chasing site.. whats that about?

[Badweather Fan]

:(

[Cynmya]

Originally posted by Badweather Fan
:(

So ummmm who won?

[Badweather Fan]

If you're serious, Ireland got hammered through desperate throwing by the hairy fella, crap kicking by Humphries and general inferiority.

[patsh]

Gee, it must have been awful for them.
All those poor alickadoos, ex-cbc'ers/pres-ites,etc,etc
gnashing their teeth and weeping into their Heino's........:D :D

[Macy]

Originally posted by Macy
We would've had an outside chance had O'Sullivan biten the bullet and brought in O'Gara for Humphreys..... Now I reckon England by 20 points....
Well SEJ?

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by Macy
Well SEJ?

Well, my hat goes off to England. They were simply far superior to Ireland in every last area of the field. The intensity/tempo they played the game at was simply awesome. No team in the world would have lived with England yesterday. Ireland it must be said ARE still a very good team, having won 10 games in a row they'd have to be, but, England were in a totally different league and gave us a masterclass.
Being honest, though in Ireland we were looking at a team capable of reaching the World Cup semis, in England we saw this Octobers winners of the tournament. England are a level above us at the moment, and the gap will take 2-3 years yet to bridge.

[Macy]

Originally posted by Conor74
Macy, I know the result was a bummer, but admit it, you've got that warm smug feeling that only comes when you're proved right and can tell everyone "I told you so..."
To be honest I was raging after the game, but it did make my monday morning slightly more bearable knowing I could post a "told you so" message..... :cool:


Originally posted by Shed End John
Being honest, though in Ireland we were looking at a team capable of reaching the World Cup semis, in England we saw this Octobers winners of the tournament. England are a level above us at the moment, and the gap will take 2-3 years yet to bridge.
Not totally convinced that England are the best in the World.... We simply took the wrong options too many times yesterday, and turned over too much ball.... The out half debate has now been put to bed, and O'Gara will start for the forseeable, which will only be good for us... I would be disappointed if we don't reach the semi's, but performances will have to pick up considerably from the championship....

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by Macy
Not totally convinced that England are the best in the World.... We simply took the wrong options too many times yesterday, and turned over too much ball.... The out half debate has now been put to bed, and O'Gara will start for the forseeable, which will only be good for us

Being honest about it, I don't think it mattered a whole lot what we did yesterday, England were going to win regardless. O'Gara most likely will start every game from now on, seeing as Humphries was such an unmitigated DISASTER. IMO, we'll reach the semis of the WC. Performances I'm sure WILL pick up.
England I feel ARE the best team in the world. Winning the World Cup all depends on how they travel. If playing thetournament in Australia doesn't bother them all that much, I reckon they'll lift the William Webb Ellis Trophy.

[SÓC]

Originally posted by Shed End John
Being honest about it, I don't think it mattered a whole lot what we did yesterday, England were going to win regardless.


I have to disagree, we were still in it for long periods in the second half even, Humphreys miss of a very kickable penalty in the 1st half was important IMO. Im not denying that England are a superior team but there are ways to get at they that we didnt even try yesterday.

Humphreys never once tried to put the shíts on an inexperienced english full back with a few huge kicks á la O'Gara versus Glouchester. If we'd gotten a try back early the English would have been rattled. Hopefully we'll learn from it.

I think the selection was wrong in three crucial areas; Humphreys, Longwell and Bishop. We should bring back Girvan Dempsey throw Murphy on to the wing and Paul O'Connell in at 4.

[James]

Originally posted by SÓCcfc
I think the selection was wrong in three crucial areas; Humphreys, Longwell and Bishop. We should bring back Girvan Dempsey throw Murphy on to the wing and Paul O'Connell in at 4.

well said soc. fair from knowing my eggchasing thats what i'd do also

humphries missed a kickable kick in 1st half
we had a few "phases" (thats what they call em yea) of possession end cof 1st half and cudnt score or break the "gain-line" :D, a score there 13-13 at HT

feww big gary's from an irish outhalf put the fear of god in that boy lucey the engaland full back right from the start. why the hell didnt humphries even try to do that???

wether it was him or eddie o sullivan not telling him to twas proved wrong

Eddie O Sillivan OUT
SOCcfc for manager

I'll get the banners ready sean :)

[Schumi]

I don't think O'Connell did any better than Longwell (not that it mattered at that stage) but Dempsey should come back in with Murphy on the wing. Both Bishop and Kelly were poor for the whole 6 nations and I think Murphy would be more dangerous on the wing than at full back. O'Gara will now start for the World Cup so at least soem good came of the game.

Despite any mistakes we made, England were just too good. We needed to get ahead early to have any chance and after trailing at half time, we were never going to win.

On another issue, were England ****ing aroung with their 'blood' substitutions? I didn't see any blood on Wilkinson for example.

[Cynmya]

Originally posted by Badweather Fan
If you're serious, Ireland got hammered through desperate throwing by the hairy fella, crap kicking by Humphries and general inferiority.
Of course I'm serious, you forget some of us live on the other side of the world and don't get to watch the games on TV. the only connection we have with Irish football are the forums and sites. We basically rely on you and these places to get the whole picture. And have to wait until we go back there to actually see it live.
Thanx
:cool:

[Macy]

Originally posted by Schumi
On another issue, were England ****ing aroung with their 'blood' substitutions? I didn't see any blood on Wilkinson for example.
Noticed that, and weren't they passing up their own balls for England line-outs? Not to mention the boll0x at the start...

On reflection it leaves England with a lot of pressure and expectation on them (which history shows they don't handle the mae west), while at the same time Ireland go with the pressure lifted... Both of which have to be a positive....

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by Schumi
On another issue, were England ****ing aroung with their 'blood' substitutions? I didn't see any blood on Wilkinson for example.

He had blood on his jersey at least three times. Whether it was his or someone elses is besides the point, the law of the land says the jersey must be replaced by a clean one. Btw, the picture of him on the paper holding the 6 Nations trophy with blood p***ing out of his lip was halfways funny!!