View Full Version : Eircom League Structure
gufcfan
15/07/2007, 10:25 PM
What sort of time frame has the FAI stated regarding the creation of a new A division and u-20's league?
Also, the reduction to 10 teams in the premier if that is still going ahead.
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Please delete if this is covered somewhere else. Couldn't see it
DmanDmythDledge
15/07/2007, 10:30 PM
A League is next season, I think the U-20 league is too.
10 team Premier will happen in 2009.
Kildare Lad
16/07/2007, 12:10 AM
Any Idea when we will know what clubs will make the A Championship?
gufcfan
16/07/2007, 2:01 AM
I vaguely remember it being mentioned of the A league that it would comprise mainly of teams that were in the u-21's who were not already involved in the existing league.
Not my words now mind.
Difficult to say if such a thing could be sustained. Would the A league have promotion relegation to first division.
Personally i doubt it as it would ruin any club getting relegated into it.
I'm not against ir but im not sure if its a runner.
If memory serves tho i think the fai have no choice but to implement it
AFAIK its to be a mixture of reserve teams and new teams (possibly those in the U21 league) with promotion/relegation play offs between the winner and bottom team in first division. Reserve teams can't be promoted
gufcfan
16/07/2007, 2:46 AM
Reserve teams can't be promoted
That's a given but i think it might do a lot of harm relegating a club from the 1st.
Then again i suppose you have to give the A league teams something to play for.
Would be good for the teams that have been knockin on the eircom league's door the last few years.
A mixture of reserve and new teams would be good as young players could play at a meaningful competetive level.
Time will tell if it all works... i really hope it does tho.
Some teams like salthill devon and castlebar celtic would be in with a shout if they wanted to join.
Castlebar anyway seeing as they only have the league team in the u-21's.
Hard to say whether it would do them any good.
For a lot of small clubs like them(no offence intended) i think entering the lower wrungs of the eircom league
would cost a bit more than to stay where they are.
It would also possibly permanently put their best and brightest in the shop window around the country.
Money would have to be spent on bringing the club up to this A league license standard
What yee think?
I doubt there will be too many requirements for a team to get into the A league to be honest. I seem to recall that a team has to finish at least 4th in their section of the A league and ahead of all other non-reserve sides to win play any such team from the other section for the right to challenge the bottom first division team to get into the league. From the point of view of many intermediate and junior clubs they will probably regard it as likely to be a difficult and expensive league to compete in. A good few of the premier reserve sides are likely to be of a pretty high standard so getting that fourth place would not be easy. It would leave the way open though if someone wanted to invest serious money in a new club and get them into the league.
passerrby
16/07/2007, 11:13 AM
There was an ad in the nationals a few weeks ago looking for prospective clubs to apply.
The A League is a terrible idea. No First Division side could afford to enter & means Premier division sides will need to maintain another senior side.
DmanDmythDledge
16/07/2007, 3:34 PM
The A League is a terrible idea. No First Division side could afford to enter & means Premier division sides will need to maintain another senior side.
First Division teams aren't required to enter a team in the A League.
Agree that it's a terrible idea.
First Division teams aren't required to enter a team in the A League.
I meant to say that because they not required to enter none of them will due to finances.
Seems to be a backward step as the U21 league was to encourage teams to keep younger squad members. The A league will just encourage keeping older backup squad members.
The league definitely needs a reserve league. Pats signed a couple of players who aren't match fit and the only games they can play are the first team.
Remains to be seen if it works out as well as the spanish versions
LeixlipRed
16/07/2007, 4:26 PM
Senior players can play for the U-21s though can't they?
Senior players can play for the U-21s though can't they?
Max of three
passerrby
16/07/2007, 7:03 PM
The A League is a terrible idea. No First Division side could afford to enter & means Premier division sides will need to maintain another senior side.
spot on very silly plan but i think they have made there minds up and will not be consulting clubs
gufcfan
16/07/2007, 8:18 PM
spot on very silly plan but i think they have made there minds up and will not be consulting clubs
Is it not being imposed on them by the powers that be?
That was by impression
gufcfan
16/07/2007, 8:25 PM
The league definitely needs a reserve league.
A straight reserve league whereby teams can field anybody they like from the club, senior, reserve, u-21 would be too much of a financial burden for most as nobody would be interested.
I wonder could a premier reserve team get into 1st division. That mite not be a good idea. Takin up the place of another team that would not have the support of a "parent club" behind it.
Aswel, someones post led me to believe it would be regional. Ah sure jesus if thats the case, on this side of the country it would turn into another connacht senior league.
And on the subject if the spanish league, soccer is the no. 1 religion in spain, never mind sport! Different situation altogether
I wonder could a premier reserve team get into 1st division.
Reserve teams can't get promoted.
GavinZac
16/07/2007, 8:54 PM
A straight reserve league whereby teams can field anybody they like from the club, senior, reserve, u-21 would be too much of a financial burden for most as nobody would be interested.financial burden? they dont need to field full strength teams
I wonder could a premier reserve team get into 1st division. That mite not be a good idea. Takin up the place of another team that would not have the support of a "parent club" behind it.no, they can't.
Aswel, someones post led me to believe it would be regional. Ah sure jesus if thats the case, on this side of the country it would turn into another connacht senior league.regionality depends upon the number of applicants. id imagine the FAI would quite like the idea of lessening the influence of the regional FA's. i cant, however, see enough clubs from connacht applying to form an 8/10 team division. "regionalisation" will most likely be identical to italy/german/spanish models - aligned on a North/South divide.
And on the subject if the spanish league, soccer is the no. 1 religion in spain, never mind sport! Different situation altogetherthe FAI arent expecting clubs to immediately have support in this league. i expect, they will want the same level of participation that they get from the extra U21 teams. but who knows? if castlebar find themselves with a home game against shels to decide if they can get up or not, even if they lost it'd bring a whole new audience into the EL family circle. the A league would also make for a stronger showing from the participating senior clubs in the cups, something desperately needed.
gufcfan
16/07/2007, 9:19 PM
financial burden? they dont need to field full strength teams
Im not sure what ur gettin at there but i mean would the A league have separate squads to Senior side, i'd imagine so. thats just me thinking out loud.
regionality depends upon the number of applicants. id imagine the FAI would quite like the idea of lessening the influence of the regional FA's. i cant, however, see enough clubs from connacht applying to form an 8/10 team division. "regionalisation" will most likely be identical to italy/german/spanish models - aligned on a North/South divide.
the FAI arent expecting clubs to immediately have support in this league. i expect, they will want the same level of participation that they get from the extra U21 teams. but who knows? if castlebar find themselves with a home game against shels to decide if they can get up or not, even if they lost it'd bring a whole new audience into the EL family circle. the A league would also make for a stronger showing from the participating senior clubs in the cups, something desperately needed.
I suppose like you say, a situation where a team like castlebar needing to overcome the reserve team of a big team or shels it would give the profile of the local game a boost no matter the result.
In the long term would entry to the league be on invitation. Say you had a team finish rock bottom a few years in a row...
Thanks for the input gavinzac
GavinZac
16/07/2007, 9:48 PM
Im not sure what ur gettin at there but i mean would the A league have separate squads to Senior side, i'd imagine so. thats just me thinking out loud.i think the squads will be interchangeable, much like the U21 system at the moment but with players freely moveable.
from the reserve teams point of view:
a key aspect of the a league is actually the u20 league - the FAI see this as the perfect age (or perhaps u19, like a lot of europe) for underages to end and moving into the squad to start. moving the restriction down a year and removing the option to play overage players will then immediately form the bones of an A league team - for instance, at cork city it would certainly benefit players who have out grown the u21 level but have yet to break the first team, eg Mark McNulty / Killian Lordan / maybe even Denis Behan, and would give players like Cathal Lordan and Shane Guthrie the benefit of regular football against senior players without needing to be farmed off to cobh/waterford. it will provide a way for players like colin obrien to stay match sharp, and finally, the best of the u20 team could also be picked to be "promoted" to this level. of course, an extra team means extra refs, extra coaches - the FAI firmly wants the eircom league's footprint on the national sports scene to be bigger.
from the (currently) intermediate teams pov:
it allows them to portray themselves locally as now being "above" the provincial leagues, as part of the nationwide "pyramid". it could mean a lot for local clubs in kids eyes to have the local paper reporting that Kerry League (south division) have just qualified for a play off against Cherry Orchard (north division) in the final of a national competition, with the winner taking on an EL side for a place in the league.
it would also mean playing in the summer. the current difference with the senior game played in the summer and the junior/intermediate played in the winter is of benefit to nobody. while participating clubs would face the challenges associated (clash with other sports being the main one), it would also help them in terms of football and in terms of competing against the senior sides in national cups. the romance of (then intermediate) cobh ramblers reaching the cup semi final would be much more likely to be reborn than intermediate sides finding themselves out of season and missing players against similar sorts of teams they'd be playing in the A league.
In the long term would entry to the league be on invitation. Say you had a team finish rock bottom a few years in a row...id say so. election is the policy at the bottom of virtually every pyramid around europe, its just that currently, irelands pyramid is rather shallow and disjointed.
im very enthusiastic for the A league as I feel football here in ireland would benefit from the same sort of deep and comprehensive pyramid found in england, italy, norway etc. whilst i know we will never have the same level of participation, it would be a much bigger draw for young players to consider themselves part of the same structure as the zayeds and healys, rather than the eircom league and first division floating untouchable above the rest.
i too am thinking aloud here so apologies for rambling and im not quite sure if ive made any central theme evident other than "what bright spark at the FAI thought of this and can we make him president"
Fair points, and I agree with you- but will enough clubs be willing to participate? The travel costs are likely to be quite high and this will put off D1 and intermediate clubs, the latter especially. The reserve league will be daunting for anyone to join if there are not sufficient teams to regionalise it. It may end up that all league clubs are required to participate.
GavinZac
16/07/2007, 10:04 PM
Fair points, and I agree with you- but will enough clubs be willing to participate? The travel costs are likely to be quite high and this will put off D1 and intermediate clubs, the latter especially. The reserve league will be daunting for anyone to join if there are not sufficient teams to regionalise it. It may end up that all league clubs are required to participate.
that remains to be seen I guess, but i suppose worse things could happen than the current u21 league simply being rebranded for a few years until other teams wish to participate.
gufcfan
16/07/2007, 11:51 PM
With all the discussion of whether it would be good or bad, i think a bit of perspective is needed.
How is the GAA so strong? For the most part, I think everybody involved can feel a connnection with the players at the top level.
My point is that a clear path can be seen between the grassroots of the local clubs and players of all levels, and the intercounty players. The same thing would not be achievable in soccer in ireland, but what we do need is for it to be much more visible at local level.
I would imagine that it is very difficult for local teams to stay focused and continuosly strive to improve when they have reached the ceiling of their perceived capabilities in their local leagues.
Even given the level which the Eircom league is at it is still seen as an elite that few clubs can aspire to.
Increasing the number of clubs participating around the country is the only way to change this.
Increasing participation will in turn increase popularity over time.
The all-ireland is watched by a huge percentange of the population.
Your own county team may contain players from your club or a neighbouring club. It gives you a sense of connection. Local soccer suffers a lack of such feelings. Very few clubs are involved in meaningful nationwide competition, i.e. the eircom league. Before anyone jumps down my throat, what i mean by meaningful is more a valuation of what i find to be the view of the general public more than the worth of a local league.
And in response to what gavinzac mentioned about smaller local teams facing off against reserve teams of established names in the league, I believe that can only be a good thing. Look what happens when a league team gets drawn with a non-league outfit. I would imagine that for the most part it peaks peoples interest in local team.
Im aware that im rambling so ill let yee digest that, and as usual disprove all my theories about irish soccer! :D
gufcfan
16/07/2007, 11:55 PM
it would also help them in terms of football and in terms of competing against the senior sides in national cups. the romance of (then intermediate) cobh ramblers reaching the cup semi final would be much more likely to be reborn than intermediate sides finding themselves out of season and missing players against similar sorts of teams they'd be playing in the A league.
Agree
pineapple stu
17/07/2007, 12:39 AM
That's a given but i think it might do a lot of harm relegating a club from the 1st.
I don't agree. Look at Monaghan and Kilkenny for example. year in year out, they struggle at the bottom of the First, and it can't really help their bid to gain support when they keep on losing. However, if they got relegated into the A league, there's then a decent chance they could mount a promotion campaign and get a bit of interest in the team going. They could maybe even catapult their good form into the First. Don't know if Monaghan or Kilkenny fans would agree though.
gufcfan
17/07/2007, 12:51 AM
I don't agree. Look at Monaghan and Kilkenny for example. year in year out, they struggle at the bottom of the First, and it can't really help their bid to gain support when they keep on losing. However, if they got relegated into the A league, there's then a decent chance they could mount a promotion campaign and get a bit of interest in the team going. They could maybe even catapult their good form into the First. Don't know if Monaghan or Kilkenny fans would agree though.
Interesting point, no doubt mons and cats would disagree but were they relegated and replaced with a new team it would do the league good. You would have a situation whereby teams outside the race for promotion have something to push for i.e. consolidating their place.
You wouldnt have teams languishing in limbo never winning a game. Even if a team were near the foot of the table there would be something to play for.
I retract my earlier remark but it cant be taken as a given that killkenny or mons would automatically go straight back up. Their teams would have been weak enough as it is, but then to drop into a lower league would lose them their brightest.
Im not disagreeing, just thinking out loud again!
Also my apologies to killkenny and monaghan, at least you have the hurling... oh scratch that....
gufcfan
17/07/2007, 12:29 PM
Just did some digging but couldnt find anything regarding what clubs need to fullfill in order to be part of the A league.
Anybody have info rather than guesses?
I do not recall any criteria being set down in the Genisis documents or any of the FAI ones. Therefore I think it is probably safe to conclude that the requirements will be fairly minimal.
passerrby
17/07/2007, 2:06 PM
Im sure they will have to hold an A championship licence and if they wish to get promoted must therefore obtain a b domistic licence. the ad in last weeks papers spoke about licensing as a requirement.
but the national league have not decided on having an under 20 or 18 league so if they go with a 20s that would mean premier clubs having a senior, a league and an under 20s which would not be cheap ,
The A league license would have to be pretty loose, at least initially or there'd be very few teams capable of entering. Then gradually increase the standard year on year. If you set the bar too high it'll be nigh on impossible to meet.
passerrby
17/07/2007, 2:15 PM
Interesting point, no doubt mons and cats would disagree but were they relegated and replaced with a new team it would do the league good. You would have a situation whereby teams outside the race for promotion have something to push for i.e. consolidating their place..
take your point but ifthe team if that wins the league is no better off or worse in terms of infrastructure and support then it will not benifit the league at all. if a new team entering the eircom league must have as its starting point better potential for suport and infrastructure otherwise noting will change except lowering the present standards which we agree is not great bu at least is something,
like yourself im just thnking out loud and have not seen any geat palns for the new structures.
gufcfan
17/07/2007, 3:04 PM
take your point but ifthe team if that wins the league is no better off or worse in terms of infrastructure and support then it will not benifit the league at all. if a new team entering the eircom league must have as its starting point better potential for suport and infrastructure otherwise noting will change except lowering the present standards which we agree is not great bu at least is something,
like yourself im just thnking out loud and have not seen any geat palns for the new structures.
I still think that even if you have teams that are no better off infastructure wise it will still stimulate growth in support for the league over time. You have too many areas of the country with no representative at national senior level.
LeixlipRed
17/07/2007, 3:13 PM
I see derry fell into the abyss on that map :D
Edit: Eh, hold on they are there, but the border's moved. Finally, Derry has been annexed!!!
gufcfan
17/07/2007, 3:38 PM
I see derry fell into the abyss on that map :D
Edit: Eh, hold on they are there, but the border's moved. Finally, Derry has been annexed!!!
I thought it looked funny alrite
gufcfan
17/07/2007, 4:30 PM
I still think that even if you have teams that are no better off infastructure wise it will still stimulate growth in support for the league over time. You have too many areas of the country with no representative at national senior level.
As the map illustrates there are big pockets with no clubs involved in the national game
DmanDmythDledge
17/07/2007, 7:22 PM
so if they go with a 20s that would mean premier clubs having a senior, a league and an under 20s which would not be cheap ,
I'd say teams will overlap their squads.
I see derry fell into the abyss on that map :D
Edit: Eh, hold on they are there, but the border's moved. Finally, Derry has been annexed!!!
Boooooo!
John83
17/07/2007, 7:49 PM
As the map illustrates there are big pockets with no clubs involved in the national game
The map also bears a striking resemblance to a map of population density in Ireland.
The map also bears a striking resemblance to a map of population density in Ireland.
No it doesn't. The population of both Mayo and Kerry are as dense as f**k yet there's no team there.
John83
17/07/2007, 8:08 PM
No it doesn't. The population of both Mayo and Kerry are as dense as f**k yet there's no team there.
Utter tripe (http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/3/3c/Population_density_of_Ireland_map.png).
pineapple stu
17/07/2007, 8:08 PM
Again, jokes flying over your head...
Utter tripe (http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/3/3c/Population_density_of_Ireland_map.png).
Different kind of density :p
John83
17/07/2007, 8:15 PM
Oh, God, I'm logging off and going to sleep. It must be the drugs.
gufcfan
18/07/2007, 10:43 AM
Again, jokes flying over your head...
You'd like to think John 83 was joking aswel, but i doubt it
gufcfan
18/07/2007, 10:44 AM
Back the issue of the new structure of the league, should the fai not have been promoting it a bit more?
John83
18/07/2007, 11:31 AM
You'd like to think John 83 was joking aswel, but i doubt it
No, my only defence is tiredness last night. It went totally over my head until PS pointed it out.
Back the issue of the new structure of the league, should the fai not have been promoting it a bit more?
I don't know about that. I reckon they're better off getting it together before they make a huge noise about it - last thing we need is articles about how they're struggling to fill the A league in national press.
Schumi
18/07/2007, 12:01 PM
First Division teams aren't required to enter a team in the A League.
Agree that it's a terrible idea.I disagree. The under-21 league is too low a standard for our reserves. There'll only be four competitive games before the knockout stage. There's not much point in beating teams like Ballinasloe 8-0 on auto-pilot and playing an Athlone team who didn't get a corner in the second half. Hopefully the A league, without an age limit, will be stronger with most of the poorer teams entering the under-20 league instead.
gufcfan
18/07/2007, 2:52 PM
Another point that just hit me about the new a league.
It could help the quality of the first division. Bear with me. More teams playing in competetive leagues can only help, if the whole thing works out. It would help fringe players of bigger clubs to continue to develop instead of warming the edge of the bench. Also it would allow otherwise junior league players to develop at a higher level, thus making the pool of players the bigger clubs have to choose from more experienced/developed.
You can take any player that has been plucked from junior football and give him a go. Its very hard to judge them on their exploits in the junior leagues tho. More partcipation all around the country is key to growth imo.
Many may have said it was a bad idea (myself included) but the only way soccer will develop in this country is if action is taken in these areas.
Does that make sense to any1 else but me?
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