120 children rescued in Dun Laoghaire

[joeSoap]

Thank God. It could have been a major disaster (http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0705/dunlaoghaire.html)

[Aberdonian Stu]

Hmm I'll wait for the full details to emerge before I go rushing to judgements. If it's in the area of the harbour this might be a much smaller deal than is being reported.

The numbers being bandied about definitely can't be trusted just yet, it was 91 in other reports and usually these types of differences in figures like indicate that a large chunk of the details are not clear yet.

EDIT: Joe, that's a seriously ugly spelling of my hometown.

EDITx2: And I wish RTE would stop putting the fada on the u. I'm a fluent Gaelgóir but I hate it when people call it Dún Laoghaire, it's Dun Laoghaire.

[dahamsta]

Even Google knows how to spell it properly. ;)

[pineapple stu]

EDITx2: And I wish RTE would stop putting the fada on the u. I'm a fluent Gaelgóir but I hate it when people call it Dún Laoghaire, it's Dun Laoghaire.
Not on any street sign I've seen. The fada belongs there; let it stay there.

About 40 ambulances, fire brigades, motorcycles, response vehicles and garda cars passed by where I work this afternoon. Was wondering what the hell was going on. You need one ambulance per casualty though, so it appears it was all precautionary.

[Saint Tom]

somebody think of the children :rolleyes:

what were they doing sailing in adverse conditions anyway? im in no way an afficianado of that particular sport but if it were not such a plummy sport would it be newsworthy??

[pineapple stu]

100 children's lives at threat? 40 rescus vehicles - a major operation - deployed? Of course it's newsworthy.

Can't sail without a bit of wind. They just got hit by a freak gust.

[onceahoop]

Was there not a small craft weather warning. Thought I heard something on the news to that effect.

[Aberdonian Stu]

The English language versions of the street signs differ with you pineapple! I'm all for bilingualism but the Irish language version of the name has taken on a added meaning in the media, in particular RTE and that's why I've stopped using it even when I speak Irish.

[pineapple stu]

There are no English language street signs. There's never a translation, which is only the case in modern housing estates or in place names which are Irish to begin with. Hence, a fada.

Anyways, back on topic.

[Macy]

Dun Laoghaire/ Dún Laoghaire/ Kingstown who really cares? :D

It seemed a bit mad that they were out there alright, until I saw how quick the wind got up in our neck of the woods last night. It was fine with a bit of breeze, and then suddenly it was gale force winds. Be fairly easy to get caught out by it.

[Dodge]

True but still think its a bit odd they are continuing the race today...

[noby]

Was there not a small craft weather warning. Thought I heard something on the news to that effect.
There's been a small craft warning nearly every day for the last month. There is a gale warning today for the Irish sea though, and possibly yesterday, which might question the decision to hold the regatta.

On the other hand, and for a little balance on the '14 boats capsize' headlines: dinghys capsize. That's what they do. In your first lesson you'll be capsized and shown how to right the boat. I'm glad everyone's ok though, if a little wet and cold, and knocked about a bit.

[drummerboy]

The kids were about a mile out from the coastline and spread out about the same distance. Have to say, it could have really been a disaster. The scale of the recovery operation was massive, which is good to know.

[OneRedArmy]

The scale of the recovery operation was massive, which is good to know.I object to my tax money being spent rescuing a bunch of kids who were severely put at risk by a bunch of clowns in deck shoes and blazers.

The Commodore (or whatever his name is) of the Royal St George's Yacht club defended the decision to go ahead with the regatta yesterday by citing how well the rescue went.

Fine, you and the rest of your mates pay for the 2 helicopters, Naval ship and ribs, 3 lifeboats, merchant ships and 30 (count'em) ambulances that were deployed, not to mention all the medical and ancilliary costs of having to swing the Dublin Area Major Emergency Plan into action.

Knob jockeys...

[drummerboy]

I object to my tax money being spent rescuing a bunch of kids who were severely put at risk by a bunch of clowns in deck shoes and blazers.

The Commodore (or whatever his name is) of the Royal St George's Yacht club defended the decision to go ahead with the regatta yesterday by citing how well the rescue went.

Fine, you and the rest of your mates pay for the 2 helicopters, Naval ship and ribs, 3 lifeboats, merchant ships and 30 (count'em) ambulances that were deployed, not to mention all the medical and ancilliary costs of having to swing the Dublin Area Major Emergency Plan into action.

Knob jockeys...

Would you have left them to their own devices.

[Aberdonian Stu]

Agree with most of what OneRedArmy said save for the Knob Jockeys comment (seemed to take a bit of lustre off it).

Back off topic and most street signs are bilingual.

[Erstwhile Bóz]

The English language versions of the street signs differ with you pineapple! I'm all for bilingualism but the Irish language version of the name has taken on a added meaning in the media, in particular RTE and that's why I've stopped using it even when I speak Irish.
There is no word 'dun' in Irish and 'laoghaire' does not make any relevant sound according to the rules of English spelling. So although "Dun Laoghaire" is, as you imply, not an Irish-language version, the whole truth is that it is a no-language version. In Irish the spelling is Dún Laoghaire, and that is that (the political reasons for its adoption as the official name of the town and even the semipoliticolinguistic reasons for retaining the medial -gh- in defiance of the modern rules of Irish orthography are neither here nor there). "Dun Laoghaire" is nothing more than a lazy misspelling of Dún Laoghaire, of which even official sources in the Free State, granted, were guilty. But it most definitely never had the contrasting effect you would claim for it, i.e. that it be pronounced differently from Dún Laoghaire.

The spelling Dunleary -- representing the current pronunciation* we are all familiar with, RTÉ newsreaders aside, and for which you seem so hot -- already exists and has existed as the name of an official administrative unit for over 150 years. It is the official name of the townland in which the town and harbour are situated (in the civil parish of Monkstown, barony of Rathdown) and as a spelling it follows exactly the orthographical conventions for the English transliteration of Irish placenames as laid down by the Ordnance Survey in the 1830s. In other words, it makes sense. It can be found on the original six-inch maps (sheet #23) as both the name of the townland and the small village a small distance from what was then Kingstown, as well as on various official documents to this day.

I presume what you mean, then, is that you pronounce the name of your home town "Dunleery", agreeing with the townland's official spelling, Dunleary, whether speaking English or Irish, and that you believe the Irish pronunciation "Dún Laoire", agreeing with the (fossilized) official spelling of the harbour town, Dún Laoghaire, is used only with nefarious intent.

It is a valid point, if a little paranoid, and I agree with you to a certain extent.

However, I don't see where the nonsense spelling "Dun Laoghaire" should come into your argument. Nor, for that matter, street signage, which takes a notoriously improvisational approach to the Irish language, particularly in areas such as Dún Laoghaire/Rathdown where the local authority refuse to take part in the free-of-charge scheme run by the Ordnance Survey of Ireland and the Placenames Branch to systematically tidy up the country's street names.


On topic, the teenagers (not children) who were interviewed after the DISASTER calmly pointed out that they were all relatively experienced sailors and it was in fact a competition; the novice children were never going to be taken out yesterday.



*actually the sound that this spelling was intended to represent would now be spelt Dunlairy, rhyming with 'Fun Mary', the pronunciation current amongst the peasantry at the time of the Survey. -ea- in a stressed position in the anglicized versions of Irish placenames laid down by the Survey is almost invariably meant to represent the long -é- sound which the head of Orthography knew to be the original force of that diphthong in the English language (cf. Roscrea/Ros Cré, Slea Head/Ceann Sléibhe, Keady/An Céide, Coolea/Cúil Aodha, etc.; bear, wear, tear, great, etc. (Eng.)). Happily, the modern-day anglicized pronunciation of the town agrees with the modern-day sounding of -ea-; a small celebration of universal literacy and the attendant bréag-ghalántacht and éirí in airde of the formerly more traditional peasantry.

[monutdfc]

Can't sail without a bit of wind. They just got hit by a freak gust.
There was noting freakish about it, despite what one of the parents is quoted as saying. Met Eireann had forecast that the wind was going to rise. Anybody who sails will check the forecast before they go out. It was downright irresponsible of whoever let those kids go out with the forecast as it was, they should be charged with a criminal offence.

[0325422]

There is no word 'dun' in Irish and 'laoghaire' does not make any relevant sound according to the rules of English spelling...

you must have an awful lot of time on your hands

[DmanDmythDledge]

True but still think its a bit odd they are continuing the race today...
It's cancelled.

[Dodge]

Good. It wasn't this morning as they were talking about it on the radio. "organisers have said they will continue with the regatta despite..."

Common sesne prevailed

[noby]

I'd imagine they were waiting as long as possible to give it every chance. The winds are to ease a bit this evening, and being westerly would be a little slacker on the east coast.
But, yeah, after yesterday, it's probably the right decision, whatever about the weather.

[OneRedArmy]

Would you have left them to their own devices.
The adult organisers? I'd have thrown them in Dublin Bay with concrete shoes as punishment for risking kids lives.

You seem to have misinterpreted my point, I want the yachties to pay for their gross stupidity, not the kids to be left drown as a lesson.

Its quite common in other countries for rescue costs to be recouped when stupidity and ignoring warnings is to blame.


Agree with most of what OneRedArmy said save for the Knob Jockeys comment That was the best bit!:D

[Erstwhile Bóz]

The adult organisers? I'd have thrown them in Dublin Bay with concrete shoes as punishment for risking kids lives.

You seem to have misinterpreted my point, I want the yachties to pay for their gross stupidity, not the kids to be left drown as a lesson.

Its quite common in other countries for rescue costs to be recouped when stupidity and ignoring warnings were to blame for the incident.


I think it is far from having being shown that a) they knowingly risked kids' lives, or b) stupidity and (recklessly) ignoring warnings was to blame.

If it is shown, then you're dead right.


you must have an awful lot of time on your hands
:) It's my job. (Researching placenames, not having time on my hands.)

[Aberdonian Stu]

Well seeing as it's your job am I correct in thinking that Dún Laoire is the correct modern Irish spelling? This is what I was taught in school (both national and at an All Irish second level).

I was under the impression that the townland (surely it's a borough) name, Dunleary, was no longer in official usage. Am I mistaken?

[Schumi]

I object to my tax money being spent rescuing a bunch of kids who were severely put at risk by a bunch of clowns in deck shoes and blazers.I thought the Lifeboats (RNLI?) were a voluntary organisation. They're always fundraising anyway.

[Erstwhile Bóz]

Well seeing as it's your job am I correct in thinking that Dún Laoire is the correct modern Irish spelling? This is what I was taught in school (both national and at an All Irish second level).
You're right that it should be the modern Irish spelling but seeing as the "English" name of the town (i.e., its official name) is fossilized as Dún Laoghaire a sensible exception was made and the recommended Irish form is the official name (in order to avoid a bizarre situation whereby you would find in, say, the Gazetteer of Ireland the following ridiculous entry: (Eng.) Dún Laoghaire, (Ir.) Dún Laoire). The official naming of towns falls under the remit of local government.



I was under the impression that the townland (surely it's a borough) name, Dunleary, was no longer in official usage. Am I mistaken?
The townland still exists technically as an 'administrative unit', but is completely obsolete in administrative practice, you're right, like many others in urban areas. I don't think it was ever co-extensive with the erstwhile Borough of Dún Laoghaire; the townland was properly defined in the 1830s and I don't know when the Borough came into existence*. 'Dunleary townland' might still be used in land registration and perhaps some other legalistic documents, and will be included, for example, in the forthcoming Placenames Order (Dublin) which will for the first time give official status to the Irish versions of the names of all administrative units (obsolete or not) in the Co. Dublin area.

*edit: at the time of the publication of the Townland Index in 1901, it was "included in [both] Blackrock and Kingstown Urban Districts".

[Bald Student]

I thought the Lifeboats (RNLI?) were a voluntary organisation. They're always fundraising anyway.And I would take a guess and say that it's Dunleary branch is mostly manned by members of the local yacht clubs.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Well maybe the implication of the earlier comments was that some of the parents of these children are not exactly fully tax compliant.. which may or may not be the case. Tax evasion wasn't considered a crime by a whole swaithe of Irish society until relatively recently. Granted under British rule it was quasi-patriotic to be dodging the excise man, but it's time we grew up. We have had self rule for more than 80 years. One of the reasons why the Health Service is a mess is because cuts brought in for valid reasons in the 1980's were not reversed. One of the reasons they were brought in , is large swaithes of the so called middle classes were putting their money in off shore accounts rather than paying their taxes.

[OneRedArmy]

Last time I checked the 30 ambulances, 2 helicopters and Irish navy were paid out of public funds.

[Dodge]

Last time I checked the 30 ambulances, 2 helicopters and Irish navy were paid out of public funds.

There are far worse wastes of public money.

[Footymadlass]

I live in Dún Laoghaire. Use to spell it Dun Laoire. Spell it Dun Laoghaire now. Doesnt really matter, my post still arrives to my house.

[L37Ultra]

EDIT: Joe, that's a seriously ugly spelling of my hometown.

.

Its the same as how u spelt it, isnt it? :rolleyes::confused:

[Macy]

The adult organisers? I'd have thrown them in Dublin Bay with concrete shoes as punishment for risking kids lives.

You seem to have misinterpreted my point, I want the yachties to pay for their gross stupidity, not the kids to be left drown as a lesson.

Its quite common in other countries for rescue costs to be recouped when stupidity and ignoring warnings is to blame.
All the "yachties" on the news on Friday were saying it never was that big a deal, and that it was well under control. They were adamant that there was no need for the major incident plan, and in fact it was detrimental for the children to be rushed to hospital rather than straight into the hot showers in the club house. This was backed up by several parents who said the reaction has been ridiculous, and capsizing is part of the sport.

Also interesting that they were all so annoyed at the "lucky they were wearing life jackets" comments by commentators and TD's (Mary Hanafin) saying that they wouldn't be let near the water without them and there was nothing "lucky" that they were on the children.

Wouldn't be the greatest fan of the "okay yah" yachting set, but I think they have been hard done by this time by a huge overreaction by the emergency services and the usual sensational bs in the media.

[OneRedArmy]

Wouldn't be the greatest fan of the "okay yah" yachting set, but I think they have been hard done by this time by a huge overreaction by the emergency services and the usual sensational bs in the media.I was under the impression that it was the race organiser that took the decision to call the Coastguard and ambulances and activate the major emergency plan.

Which slightly flies in the face of the subsequent "nothing to see here, move along now" statements that from the yacht club that their own rescue boats had the situation under control.

Not to mention the fact that they cancelled racing on Friday when weather conditions were actually better than Thursday (per Met Eireann).

[Aberdonian Stu]

Not to mention the fact that they cancelled racing on Friday when weather conditions were actually better than Thursday (per Met Eireann).

In fairness after all the hooha on Thursday there was no way they were going to risk the bad face they would have gotten from continuing with the event on Friday.

Oh and L37Ultra the spelling was different in the thread when joesoap first posted it.

[OneRedArmy]

In fairness after all the hooha on Thursday there was no way they were going to risk the bad face they would have gotten from continuing with the event on Friday.I may be labouring the point, but the yacht club continued to insist it was safe to sail on the Thursday given the small craft advisory and Force 7 warnings.

Most other knowledgeable commentators completely disputed this.

[Aberdonian Stu]

Indeed OneRedArmy but even if they firmly believe their own point they would have been inviting trouble by going out the next day.

Every media outlet in the country would have been on site in large numbers and the impact the subsequent commotion would have on traffic with the like would have not gone over well with locals and businesses nor the Council as it's main offices on Marine Rd face onto Harbour Rd.

This way they could stick to their guns and not risk further trouble with the people they have to deal with on a day-to-day basis.