Is the average Yank out of touch with reality [Archive]

sadloserkid

16/03/2003, 5:12 PM

Originally posted by Badweather Fan
Average?
I'd say so.
But thats only going on Fox News like.

Yeah... I don't wanna start slamming the whole lot of them but their system of government and society in general are fu�ked. I hate Dunphy but his piece in IoS today was pretty good.

Alles les Blues and all that!

patsh

16/03/2003, 6:58 PM

Originally posted by sadloserkid
See above...
See what??:confused:

BTW, treat anything written by Dunphy with great caution, no matter what it is.
That little mickey man has never had an original thought in his life, so it's probably just a rehashed mish mash of some stuff he has read somewhere else.

sadloserkid

16/03/2003, 7:00 PM

Originally posted by oddboy
See what??:confused:

Meant to put a poll there... hadn't time, puter crashed, got lazy etc...

Kickeroo

17/03/2003, 12:00 PM

I'd like to chime in on this, but apparently the (see above) link is missing, and to be perfectly honest, I doubt that anyone will change their point of view, so what's the point?

All this weekend, the news has been about how Natalie Maines expressed her 1st ammendent rights duirng a concert in London and how she's basically burning for it.

It's VERY remminicient of how Sinnead O'Conner's views were viewed ten years ago.

We're a fickle bunch, us Americans. You have every right to express your opinion, but if it's not a popular one, don't balme us if nobody does business with you, buys your CDs, or whatever.

The reality, from the GW Bush point of view is this. The nation of Iraq, has thumbed his nose at some 18 U.N, resolutions calling for his dissarmament, starting from the original Gulf War.

A 'War on Terror' was given it's push for the events of 9-11 and is not designed to be nation specific, as I understand.

The info I've been presented has Sadaam Hussein issuing checks to the families of suicide bombers in Palastine.

Is that the smoking gun/link to Terrorism that the world needs to see? I don't know.

So, like all big dumb Americans, I'm wearing my green FAI shirt today, and celebrating a holiday about a nation of which I'm three generations removed from. I pray for the safety of my brothers and sisters in the American Armed Forces, and pray for a diplomatic solution to this current crisis.

I also pray for the understanding of the Islamic world, that we can solve our differences on the fotoball field or something.

How out of touch was that?

�anna

17/03/2003, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by sadloserkid
I hate Dunphy but his piece in IoS today was pretty good.
excellent piece even if i despise the gimp

�anna

17/03/2003, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by Kickeroo
The info I've been presented has Sadaam Hussein issuing checks to the families of suicide bombers in Palastine.

Is that the smoking gun/link to Terrorism that the world needs to see? I don't know.
It is a link to terrorists, just as the US government's military aid to Israel is aiding terrorists.

Kickeroo

17/03/2003, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by �anna
It is a link to terrorists, just as the US government's military aid to Israel is aiding terrorists.

Thus, the "I don't know" part.

�anna

17/03/2003, 12:36 PM

fair enough. Thats seems to be the problem IMO, is the flow of information from the US media is very much pro-government. look at the abuse Dan Rather got when he went to interview Saddam. If the Americans support their governemnt fine, I'll agree to disagree (vehemently) on it, but i just think the vast majority of people in the US are unaware of all the facts/the bigger picture. For a democracy, the US has a very odd attitude to conscientious objectors and the like.

Kickeroo

17/03/2003, 1:40 PM

My mommy taught me to never beleive everything I read. How about you?

dahamsta

17/03/2003, 1:53 PM

I think the major problem with things like this - with debates like this, I mean - is that Americans don't seem to be getting the whole story. The news Americans are getting in the US is vastly different from the news everyone else is getting, well, everywhere else.

For example, I'm assuming Natalie Maines is one of the Dixie Chicks, right? Well, her defense was, well, I've been over this way for a few weeks now, and I'm stunned by how different the reporting is. I didn't know $this and $that were happening, and this wider view is making me think that my fellow Texan, George Bush, is screwing with our heads.

She thought she was doing her fellow Texans a favour, and from this point of view, I think she was too. But of course, even this story is guff for the most part, because most of the stations /that matter/ are taking a "wait and see" approach anyway. Which kind of proves my point?

adam

dahamsta

17/03/2003, 1:58 PM

By the way, Kickeroo, on your last point: We can all say that, but we also buy the newspapers that meld with our way of thinking and we believe what they say. So I buy the Irish Times and the Guardian, because I'm a liberal and because they say stuff I agree with, which makes me a liberal, which means I buy their newspapers, yadda yadda yadda. And such is life and how life works. In America at the moment though, if you write a liberal story or dissent, you're a fascist, unpatriotic, unamerican, anti-american, a saddam-supporter, a terrorist. And the /media/ are feeding their own frenzy. That just isn't right, can't be right.

adam

Dricky

17/03/2003, 2:02 PM

Originally posted by Kickeroo
My mommy taught me to never believe everything I read. How about you?
Well what do you expect if GW Bush can get into power then there is no need for anyone to be able to read.
Don't you hate it when mothers are always right.
:D :D

Kickeroo you are in a bad position through no fault of your own, your freedom of information in America is being suppressed by the very institute that should be championing it, the US Government. You live in a society where the press and the media are controlled by the very people who support the government. You don't get to see what we get to see as it is considered anti establishment.

Is a no win situation, I just hope for your sake you vote him out in two years. You can't use the death of 3,000 people as an excuse to start a war. Most governments believe in disarming Iraq but to go in without the full international support is crazy every anti American in the world will then have a cause.

Any President who refers to an international crisis as a game of cards is a moron who is in too deep and is shown as the puppet he really is. Is that the best GW Bush can come up with in the face of this terror, stamp your foot and blame France. some Leader.

Who are going to make money from a war, the very people who bankrolled GW Bush into power.

What happened to Democracy???

Kickeroo

17/03/2003, 2:47 PM

You folks all make a very good point, and I will do my best to keep as informed as I can on this subject. I absoulutely realize that I am a guest here, and therefore shouldn't poop in a corner and expect everyone to respect the fact that it has an American flag stuck in it.

We are getting a fair share of point-counerpoint media coverage here, but understandably, it's not called a "Liberal Media" or "Conservative talk Radio" for nothing.

I've done my best to have my own point of view on this subject, and as earlier replies have indicated, perhaps I can learn a thing or two from people who see things from a different perspective.

sadloserkid

18/03/2003, 8:53 AM

[ Once again, this was a mistake. I've had to mod a lot of posts on Foot.ie and Boards.ie lately, so it's getting too easy to hit Edit instead of Quote. Sorry SLK. All I can remember of your original post is below. If you can remember the rest, feel free to pop it back here. --adam ]

...I think any objections would have more to do with the fact that you've pooped in the corner on Vetinari's nice rug...

dahamsta

18/03/2003, 8:58 AM

...I think any objections would have more to do with the fact that you've pooped in the corner on Vetinari's nice rug...

Nah, he hasn't. He's come in and stated his opinion and listened when others have stated theirs. That kind of poster is always welcome on Foot.ie. It's a pity we don't have more of them...

adam

sadloserkid

18/03/2003, 9:12 AM

Originally posted by Vetinari
...I think any objections would have more to do with the fact that you've pooped in the corner on Vetinari's nice rug...

Nah, he hasn't. He's come in and stated his opinion and listened when others have stated theirs. That kind of poster is always welcome on Foot.ie. It's a pity we don't have more of them...

adam

That's why I said IF . Should I repeat the magic word? IF ... Wanna put my post back up now??? :rolleyes:

I was just joking dude, how seriously are you taking me? ;)

Shed End John

18/03/2003, 9:23 AM

Average American?? Depends just what you mean by that. Judging by the growing numbers over there who are opposed to the war, it seems there are a few lights coming on in peoples heads after all. Btw, anyone watch the Correspondent programme on BBC 2 last night? Twas about Israel's MASSIVE undeclared nuclear, biological AND chemical capability. Judging by the content of the programme, Israel presents an iminently more dangerous and infinitely bigger threat to world peace/security than Iraq.

Gary

18/03/2003, 10:10 AM

As mentioned previously, Bush and Blair are nothing more than war mongering war criminals.

And if im not mistaken, was there not a resolution made against Isreal 30 yrs ago? Bushs war on terror is a joke, as he and previous US presidents have aided and abetted and funded terrorism in the middle east and will continue to do so.

I hope that the first casualties of this war are Bush and Blair.

Shed End John

18/03/2003, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by GWA
I hope that the first casualties of this war are Bush and Blair.

Two of the 'hawks' removed from world politics, is it too much to ask? Seems that the Bush/Blair axis wants a fight at any cost and it will probably get it. If they are ousted, though, things will only get worse if two more hawks take their place. Ever notice how world politics are ALWAYS alot more stable when the 'doves' are in power??

Gary

18/03/2003, 10:23 AM

I see that Claire Short didnt have the courage of her convictions this morning and will not resign from the British cabinet. pity, as had Blair lost two cabinet members in 24 hrs he would be in trouble. However, he its expected that there will be a widespread revolt in the commons this afternoon.

Shed End John

18/03/2003, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by GWA
I However, he its expected that there will be a widespread revolt in the commons this afternoon.

Bring it on!! He might learn not to be such a bully-boy ba$tard in future.

sadloserkid

18/03/2003, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by sadloserkid
[ Once again, this was a mistake. I've had to mod a lot of posts on Foot.ie and Boards.ie lately, so it's getting too easy to hit Edit instead of Quote. Sorry SLK. All I can remember of your original post is below. If you can remember the rest, feel free to pop it back here. --adam ]

Thanks for clearing that up! I was just trying to be funny and saying that if somebody was to take a dump on the floor most people would be concerned with the turd itself than any flag that may be protruding from it. Ah.... the moments lost... :p

dahamsta

18/03/2003, 12:13 PM

Bring it on!! He might learn not to be such a bully-boy ba$tard n future.

Unfortunately, unless the revolt is enormous, it's unlikely to make a difference, since Blair has the Tories support on this.

adam

Colm

18/03/2003, 2:06 PM

Originally posted by GWA
I hope that the first casualties of this war are Bush and Blair. Blair is a puppet pure and simple. I actually used to have a lot of respect for the guy but he has gone down in my estimation (that said I'd rather he be in power than Iain Duncan Smith).

The way I see it is Blair will do anything to please Bush, if Bush wants war so does Blair. If Bush didnt want war Blair wouldn't either.
It's the same with Bertie, he loves to keep Blair and Bush happy and will go out of his way to remain in their good books.

JR Ewing

18/03/2003, 2:20 PM

Originally posted by Dricky
Who are going to make money from a war
I certainly will, my company stands to gain 1 million barrels of oil if our military can protect the oil supplies in Iraq during the war. Hopefully, with God's help, we will oust an evil tyrant and replenish our oil supplies in the same effort.

dahamsta

18/03/2003, 2:33 PM

JR Ewing, I hope for your sake I don't find you're an existing poster on Foot.ie. If I do, both accounts will be gone.

adam

Schumi

18/03/2003, 3:11 PM

America's resoning that they want to spread democracy has to be taken with a large pinch of salt. I don't know if anyone else saw the programme on RTE over the weekend about the coup in Venezuela but one of Bush's cabinet (Powell I think) basially said it was the democratically elected president's own fault despite the fact that he had massive popular support.

Kickeroo

18/03/2003, 4:35 PM

Vetinari, i think he/she is trying to force a smile out of everyone in what is certainly an awkward time. Think along the lines of Dennis Leary

I've been reading everyone's post on this subject, and at this time, I still do not beleive it would be appropriate for me to comment of the "vibe" here is. It's disturbing to say the least, but it's a familar feeling for us all. I'm fighting the urge to be a chest-thumping bold patriot and a conciencous objector all at the same time.

Elvis Costello said it best: What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding?

God bless you all. We'll raise a pint in Dublin in early May. I'll be there.

Dricky

20/03/2003, 8:31 AM

Hey at least you know that all our comments are directed at the Administration and not the people.

Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary.
Mahatma Gandhi,

Shed End John

20/03/2003, 9:11 AM

Originally posted by Vetinari
[BUnfortunately, unless the revolt is enormous, it's unlikely to make a difference, since Blair has the Tories support on this.

adam [/B]

That'll be something of a first, then. Labour and the Tories agreeing on ANYTHING.:D

dahamsta

20/03/2003, 11:10 AM

That'll be something of a first, then. Labour and the Tories agreeing on ANYTHING.:D

The Tories couldn't possibly NOT agree with war in Iraq - no matter what the circumstances - if Labour is for it.

Kickeroo, I have no objection to humour, however multiple accounts is against the rules on Foot.ie. If I find out it's a mod - it usually is, sadly - they won't be a mod no more.

adam

Shed End John

20/03/2003, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by Vetinari
That'll be something of a first, then. Labour and the Tories agreeing on ANYTHING.:D

The Tories couldn't possibly NOT agree with war in Iraq - no matter what the circumstances - if Labour is for it.

Doesn't seem to be much point in having an 'Opposition' so, if they don't actually oppose anything. And, with most average Brits opposed to the war.......you get the picture.

Macy

20/03/2003, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by Shed End John
Doesn't seem to be much point in having an 'Opposition' so, if they don't actually oppose anything. And, with most average Brits opposed to the war.......you get the picture.
Well that's Blairs fault in the first place - he shifted Labour to the right, highjacked tory policy, thus forcing the tory party to shift further to the right and effectively killing meaningful opposition in the UK.....

Shed End John

20/03/2003, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by Macy
Well that's Blairs fault in the first place - he shifted Labour to the right, highjacked tory policy, thus forcing the tory party to shift further to the right and effectively killing meaningful opposition in the UK.....

Thanks to an example set by the Irish, with the whole 'no difference between Fianna Fail and Fine Gael' thing.

dahamsta

20/03/2003, 12:25 PM

I'm going to split this thread if it continues into an FG/FF war. And I'm going to start the war: Conor74, you're calling what FF is doing now "better"? Economic and competitive idiocy, fencesitting and lickspittling, overspending and incompetent taxation? Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

The Opposition was weak at the last election, but their major weakness was that they weren't able to highlight FF's lies effecitively. That's what FF do better, lie. You can have them.

adam

dahamsta

20/03/2003, 12:28 PM

Doesn't seem to be much point in having an 'Opposition' so, if they don't actually oppose anything.

Macy's point stands, however he didn't correct you on this: You're wrong, they do oppose stuff. In fact, they oppose far too much for a comparable right-wing party, which has been part of the problem for the last few years. It makes them look like idiots. To be credible, you have to oppose credibly. Noonan and Bruton always made a haimes of it.

adam