Why no Inter-Toto thread

[Saint MacDara]

Known as the Hammarshes:)

[pateen]

anyone know if this round is on TV?

[DmanDmythDledge]

anyone know if this round is on TV?
It won't be.

[derm]

Bus full of Rovers and Hammarby coming from Dublin. :cool:

KOH

And here was I thinking that Irish fans supported Irish teams in Europe :rolleyes:

[WeAreRovers]

And here was I thinking that Irish fans supported Irish teams in Europe :rolleyes:

Don't know where you got that from. Why would I support our rivals in Europe? Typical Irish minnowism.

KOH

[rebs23]

Typical Irish minnowism.

KOH
And would that typical Irish minnowism include fans of a Dublin club coming down to Cork on a Saturday night to support a swedish team in the inter two bob cup?

[ifk101]

If certain Rovers' fans want to support Hammarby that's their business.

As for the match itself, I expect Cork to record a comfortable victory.

[OneRedArmy]

Don't know where you got that from. Why would I support our rivals in Europe? Typical Irish minnowism.

KOH.........as opposed to supporting random European teams who play in green?

[WeAreRovers]

.........as opposed to supporting random European teams who play in green?

Eh? I've watched and supported plenty of sides in Europe and only one wears green and that was hardly 'random'. :rolleyes:

For a real insight into the parochialism of Irish football fans check out this beauty of a thread - http://www.ccfcforum.com/forum/Shamrock-Rovers-fans-coming-with-Hammarby-t19316.html

KOH

[rebs23]

For a real insight into the parochialism of Irish football fans check out this beauty of a thread - http://www.ccfcforum.com/forum/Shamrock-Rovers-fans-coming-with-Hammarby-t19316.html

KOH
Whats your point? That Football fans are parochial about their own team! Shock horror. That Rovers supporters are somehow the cosmopolitan darlings of the football world? What? That Rovers are the only set of fans that have links with supporters from abroad?

Now lets get back to your original comment on typical Irish minnowism and does this include fans from Rovers travelling down to Cork on a Saturday night to support a Swedish team in Europe?

[paul_oshea]

Now lets get back to your original comment on typical Irish minnowism and does this include fans from Rovers travelling down to Cork on a Saturday night to support a Swedish team in Europe?

rebs there is no point arguing with him or NY hoop, ye never get anywhere, they dont understand.

[WeAreRovers]

I'll warrant that most Bohs and Pats fans on here wouldn't support other Irish teams in Europe. Similarly you'd be laughed out of court if you suggested the same to English, Swedish, Italian or Greek fans.

Even in other smaller leagues this kind of thing would be scorned. Can you see Linfield fans popping along to support the Glens or Cliftonville in Europe? Now that Aberdeen are back in Europe maybe some Hibs or Dundee Utd might support them?

My dad is from Roscommon and would support Galway or Mayo in an All Ireland final. I just don't understand it but he also only goes to the big games and then only if he thinks they might win. He also leaves matches early - he missed St Bridgets winning goal in the Connacht Final.

Now that's a 'real' Irish sports fan and supporting your rival in Europe reflects that mentality and has nothing to do with football culture as the rest of the world knows it.

KOH

[ifk101]

I'll warrant that most Bohs and Pats fans on here wouldn't support other Irish teams in Europe. Similarly you'd be laughed out of court if you suggested the same to English, Swedish, Italian or Greek fans.

Even in other smaller leagues this kind of thing would be scorned. Can you see Linfield fans popping along to support the Glens or Cliftonville in Europe? Now that Aberdeen are back in Europe maybe some Hibs or Dundee Utd might support them?

My dad is from Roscommon and would support Galway or Mayo in an All Ireland final. I just don't understand it but he also only goes to the big games and then only if he thinks they might win. He also leaves matches early - he missed St Bridgets winning goal in the Connacht Final.

Now that's a 'real' Irish sports fan and supporting your rival in Europe reflects that mentality and has nothing to do with football culture as the rest of the world knows it.

KOH

But would it not be better for Rovers if Cork "do well" in Europe? The longer Cork are involved in the Intertoto, the more matches they have to play and the larger the backlog of league matches. I'm sure you'd agree that it does not help any club's league chances if a backlog of matches builds up.

And financially, the Intertoto is no money spinner. I'm sure Cork will be happy if their European aventure breaks even.

And just so you know, there're plenty of examples on the Hammarby fans forum of fans from other Swedish clubs wishing them well.

[MyTown]

I hope Cork do so well against Hammarby that they've nothing left in the tank for next Tuesday's visit to Galway.

Somehow, I don;t think it will pan out that way.......

[Raheny Red]

What pishes me off most at this time of year is the fixation with the co-efs

[Dodge]

I'll warrant that most Bohs and Pats fans on here wouldn't support other Irish teams in Europe
Can't speak for the rest but I probably wouldn't. Wouldn't be upset if Cork won.

No way in hell would I want anything other than humiliation for Bohs, Shels or Shamrock.


What pishes me off most at this time of year is the fixation with the co-efs

Agree 10000000%

[The Good Son]

I don't know what all this fuss about Rovers fans coming down to support Hammarby is about. There's 17 of the Bologna 'Undici Leoni' group coming over to support City this weekend. If in the future, Bologna played Shamrock in Europe would it be wrong for City fans to travel up to Dublin to return the favour and support Bologna? I know I'd be there.
If all LOI teams except City got knocked out in 1st round, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest, at the same time I wouldn't lose any sleep if they got through a couple of rounds. But if they got within reach of the money spinning rounds then you can be sure I'd be 100% hoping for them to go out.

[paudie]

Raheny Red
"What pishes me off most at this time of year is the fixation with the co-efs "




Agree 10000000%

Yeah, it's not like the coeficients affect seeding and St PAts not being seeded meant they got a tough draw in Europe

[Jerry The Saint]

Don't know what you're all talking about. No such club as Hammarby, son. The team's name is Idrottsförening.

[Dodge]

Its not the co-efficient I have a problem with, its the obsessing over them.

[GavinZac]

Its not the co-efficient I have a problem with, its the obsessing over them.

co-efficients are one of the most important factors in the progress of this league - more important than attendance figures or international recognition, tbh. only with regular progress to one or other of the group stages will people actually take notice of the league.

i can understand a pats fan not enjoying it though, not being involved except in derisive terms for their pathetic display in moldova.

[Dodge]

Nothing is more important than attendance figures Gavin...

[GavinZac]

Nothing is more important than attendance figures Gavin...

attendance figures are a byproduct of success.

[Dodge]

So is the co-efficient.

Check mate pedantor

[WeAreRovers]

I don't know what all this fuss about Rovers fans coming down to support Hammarby is about. There's 17 of the Bologna 'Undici Leoni' group coming over to support City this weekend. If in the future, Bologna played Shamrock in Europe would it be wrong for City fans to travel up to Dublin to return the favour and support Bologna? I know I'd be there.
If all LOI teams except City got knocked out in 1st round, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest, at the same time I wouldn't lose any sleep if they got through a couple of rounds. But if they got within reach of the money spinning rounds then you can be sure I'd be 100% hoping for them to go out.

At last some sanity is brought to the proceedings.

BTW I was in Bologna last week, cracking city. I'll be back at some stage.

KOH

[derm]

Can't speak for the rest but I probably wouldn't. Wouldn't be upset if Cork won.

No way in hell would I want anything other than humiliation for Bohs, Shels or Shamrock.


I'm a bit confused as how you can reconcile this with what you said on another thread:


Every single positive thing in the league should be used for maximum effect. Whther thats crowds improving, grounds improving, players getting international call ups or results in Europe, the more "good news" stories come out of the league, the easier it is to sell to sponsors, TV companies and more importantly fans.


:confused: You believe that positive European results are good for the league but want your Dublin rivals to be humiliated.

I for one will welcome the Bologna fans but would never support them over another Irish team in Europe, because it affects the image of my league and consequently my team. It may also affect the chance of my team being seeded in future rounds. Others can do the opposite if they like, but I would call that self-defeating pettiness rather than "sanity".

[pateen]

What time is kick off tomorrow?
I presume Redfm or rte medium wave will cover it??
Could see on redfm's website though

[razor]

What time is kick off tomorrow?
I presume Redfm or rte medium wave will cover it??
Could see on redfm's website thoughKO is at 7.30pm, are you sure its not on the telly?

[derm]

What time is kick off tomorrow?
I presume Redfm or rte medium wave will cover it??
Could see on redfm's website though

7.30 ko, Not sure about radio coverage - Red FM may only have updates, ditto with 96FM, I doubt RTÉ will cover it.

[Dodge]

:confused: You believe that positive European results are good for the league but want your Dublin rivals to be humiliated.


Why the confusion? Good results for LOI clubs does reflect well on the league, and I believe that the FAI should highlight any good results the clubs obtain. Unquestionably, good results in europe help the league.

However, the welfare of the league is not the highest of my priorities in football. They go (roughly)

1) Pats being a success
2) Our rivals being failures

Oh sure I can be all high and mighty and claim that Shels qualifying for the champions league would be good for the league but the truth is I felt physically sick when Deportivo took so long to beat them a few years ago. I love Pats, I despise every club thats ever beaten Pats. I know that Shels winning 2 rounds in the CL helped the league, and I ****ing hated it.

I can't understand how any football fan can look on objectively...

[GavinZac]

So is the co-efficient.

Check mate pedantor

co-efficients arent a byproduct of success, they are a measure of success. complicated, i know, but heres hoping you're englightened by pats actually getting some some day

[derm]

I can't understand how any football fan can look on objectively...

European competition is an objective way to measure the quality of the league, so I loved it when Derry walloped Gretna who the bookies unbelievably had as favourites. I love it that over four years the eL has shown it's of a higher standard than the swedish league. I welcome every good result as more ammunition to throw at the barstoolers who call the quality of the league sh!te.

More respect for the league means higher fees for its players, it means more young players either staying longer in or returning to the league, it may mean higher attendances, more media interest, etc etc. In short, my club has already benefited and will do so again.

It's not a love-in, I hope Pats,Derry and Drogs perform well in Europe, but I will join in the howls of abuse if one of ye embarass the league. If one of ye gets walloped 10 - 0 by a team no one has heard of it will undo some of the hard work CCFC has done in Europe.

I'm not objective, I just see more of the bigger picture...

[paudie]

Its not the co-efficient I have a problem with, its the obsessing over them.

I wouldn't call analysis of how various results in Europe will affect clubs seedings in the future obsessing.

As Pats know even small changes in the coefficient can have a big effect. (Libertas or Odense?)

If ,say, Drogs are the EL's last club in Europe this year and whether they get a draw or not decides whether Pat's are seeded next season I'd say you might take a healthy interest in it.

[GavinZac]

If one of ye gets walloped 10 - 0 by a team no one has heard of
be realistic, that could never happen!

right? :eek:

[Cymro]

be realistic, that could never happen!

right? :eek:

If Shelbourne had entered Europe this year it might.......;)

[green-blood]

we have a boutique league and the sooner we concentrate on entertaining our boutique audiance and forget about these irrelevant european follies the better. what do we need, 10-18 copetitive clubs playing out of compact 5-10K modern stadiums on good surfaces with a strong percentage of full time players, tight championships and romantic cup runs - or Scotland II

some day an Irish club will make UEFA or chumps league group stages, they'll get hockeyed but will make so much money that they will dominate the EL for years - wont that be ****ing great

come on Hammarby

[GavinZac]

we have a boutique league and the sooner we concentrate on entertaining our boutique audiance and forget about these irrelevant european follies the better. what do we need, 10-18 copetitive clubs playing out of compact 5-10K modern stadiums on good surfaces with a strong percentage of full time players, tight championships and romantic cup runs - or Scotland II

some day an Irish club will make UEFA or chumps league group stages, they'll get hockeyed but will make so much money that they will dominate the EL for years - wont that be ****ing great

come on Hammarby

yes, some day we'll all enjoy the same fantastic kind of league as kilmarnock and livingston.

its fairly obvious to see which fans have never seen their club win europe and which have. interesting.

[The Good Son]

At last some sanity is brought to the proceedings.

BTW I was in Bologna last week, cracking city. I'll be back at some stage.

KOH

Next time you're there WAR check out the Enoteca Des Arts, on the the Via San Felice. Nice and central, lovely vino and CCFC memorabilia on the wall.

[paudie]

If Shelbourne had entered Europe this year it might.......;)

Cymro, just for your info the 10-0 comment is a dig at Pats who lost 5-0 home and away to a Moldovan team in the CL about 10 years ago.

That's generally seen as the worst it got for EL teams in Europe.

[swano]

yes, some day we'll all enjoy the same fantastic kind of league as kilmarnock and livingston.

its fairly obvious to see which fans have never seen their club win europe and which have. interesting.

:confused: Unless the Rovers fan you are replying to is under the age of 4 I'd hazard a wild guess that he's seen his team win in europe.

[OneRedArmy]

The obsessing about coefficients is absolutely ridiculous, purely from a statistical point of view as much as anything else.

As the coefficient is based on a 5 year moving average and if you accept that it simply reflects the comparative level of EL football, then each individual result is pretty much inconsequential in the actual coefficient.

Recent improvements in the average coefficients reflect only the strength of the league, nothing to do with the teams that actually represent us in Europe.

That applies as much to Cork City (and whoever above used the ridiculous phrase "undoing the good work Cork did") as it does to Derry's run last year.

Ergo, if the standards of football in the League continues to improve (and many people believe its dipped this year) then the coefficient will improve.

Its forest for the trees type stuff and quite frankly not something I would expect many of the keyboard warriors/internet junkies on here to grasp ;):p

[Dodge]

:confused: Unless the Rovers fan you are replying to is under the age of 4 I'd hazard a wild guess that he's seen his team win in europe.

Wouldn't worry about it. Typical Cork fan who thinks european competitions only started when Cork start winning

[OhNoYouDidn't]

there is no coefficient for the intertoto anyway.

so we should all be cheering for Hammerby

[Jerry The Saint]

there is no coefficient for the intertoto anyway.

so we should all be cheering for Hammerby

Don't know who Hammerby are:confused: I'll be cheering for Idrottsförening.

[OhNoYouDidn't]

Wouldn't worry about it. Typical Cork fan who thinks european competitions only started when Cork start winning

and typical Cork fan who thinks a 'Kilcoyne our Hero' or a '20 years homeless' banner is hilarious but then has the audacity to be offended when we want to see them lose.

Solidarity works two ways langers....

[Pablo Escobar]

Wouldn't worry about it. Typical Cork fan who thinks european competitions only started when Cork start winning

Evidence to the contrary please?! :p

[Jerry The Saint]

typical Cork fan who thinks a '20 years homeless' banner is hilarious

Evidence to the contrary, please?! :p

[Dr.Nightdub]

As Pats know even small changes in the coefficient can have a big effect. (Libertas or Odense?)

So you're saying that the Almighty Co-efficient is just a way of avoiding having to play real teams in Europe as opposed to someone who might give you a game? How is it a mark of progress (especially in the eyes of non-LoI fans) if you beat a string of mickey mouse outfits? Big deal. Sooner or later you're going to come up against an Odense so whether it's in the first round or subsequently makes no odds.

Only positive is that you get more away trips.

Anyway, the Almighty Co-efficient is way too complicated to work out so hence another reason not to get a stiffie over it.

As regards supporting other teams in Europe, I used to go to other clubs' European games a few years ago. Thoroughly enjoyed the sight of a Rovers fan getting furiously worked up roaring FOR Bohs rather than AT them. But the penny dropped for me when Shels played the Maltesers the year after the registration season. Chukinyere Ár Lá.

That's not to say I don't recognise that there's spin-off benefits for everyone else if the LoI teams do well - apart from anything else, it gives credence to the notion that this is a real league with real teams, so it may awaken interest in people to actually go to games.

My ideal scenario would be for Pats to enjoy those benefits without other Irish teams actually winning in Europe to generate them. In other words, as a general fuzzy make-you-feel-all-warm type notion, European progress by Irish clubs is good. But once you get down to specifics, Irish clubs other than Pats making such progress is disastrous.

Doublethink rocks doubleplusgood.

[sfc red]

But the penny dropped for me when Shels played the Maltesers the year after the registration season. Chukinyere Ár Lá.

10-0 to the refugees... Forza Zimbru ;)

[paul_oshea]

So you're saying that the Almighty Co-efficient is just a way of avoiding having to play real teams in Europe as opposed to someone who might give you a game? How is it a mark of progress (especially in the eyes of non-LoI fans) if you beat a string of mickey mouse outfits? Big deal. Sooner or later you're going to come up against an Odense so whether it's in the first round or subsequently makes no odds

surely winning more games in europe, even against "mickey mouse" teams is better than losing in the first round regardless of "more away trips" ( and opposition )?!


My ideal scenario would be for Pats to enjoy those benefits without other Irish teams actually winning in Europe to generate them. In other words, as a general fuzzy make-you-feel-all-warm type notion, European progress by Irish clubs is good. But once you get down to specifics, Irish clubs other than Pats making such progress is disastrous.

That sounds fair from a personal point of view, but surely in the greater scheme of things any team doing well is good for pats, because when they play their domestic games pats realise what level they have to reach? And also by playing these teams with "better" ( not necessarily more ) experience in Europe will benefit pats will have tougher tests and these teams have played teams of a higher standard than the EL. So to break boundaries you first have to push those boundaries out and so on and so forth....