Uefa draws

[bennocelt]

As far as I know, the uefa and Cl qualifying draws are on this friday

According to this website.................
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/seedcl2007.html

Derry city are seeded, but what teams do ye guys fancy?
Linfield would be funny? or Rangers (andorra!)

Uefa cup...............
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/seeduc2007.html

but for the Uefa, both drogheda and St Pats are not seeded, which looking at the seeded teams looks like it could be tough to get into the next round.....Ob Odense, Aik stockholm (again), HJK Helsinki, Helsingborg

[Celdrog]

but for the Uefa, both drogheda and St Pats are not seeded, which looking at the seeded teams looks like it could be tough to get into the next round.....Ob Odense, Aik stockholm (again), HJK Helsinki, Helsingborg
Didn't present too many problems last year........

There are some tough teams in there but Drogs and Pats are the second highest unseeded and the seeded teams will dread getting either of us after last year's UEFA matches for EL sides.

[bennocelt]

yeah thats true, but once bitten twice shy?
but it would be far better to get those Latvian teams

[CuanaD]

yeah thats true, but once bitten twice shy?
but it would be far better to get those Latvian teams

more like 'three times bitten' now - the last 3 years have seen eL teams have good european results






hopefully this will be 4:ball:

[Dodge]

HJK Helsinki are the lowest ranked seed

Personally I'm hoping for Hacken

[ifk101]

There are some tough teams in there but Drogs and Pats are the second highest unseeded and the seeded teams will dread getting either of us after last year's UEFA matches for EL sides.

Both Pats and Drogs would be competitive against every team on the seeded list but would have the best chance of progression against the teams from Häcken down (obviously). Brann Bergen played a weakened team in the UEFA Cup last year as their priority was on winning the league so they might also be a good draw this year around as well (mind you their second team was still good enough to beat Glentoran). AIK and Helsingborg are both struggling in the Swedish league atm and they wouldn't necessarily be a bad draw either.

[JC_GUFC]

It will be interesting to see who Derry get in the second round (draw also on Friday) Despite how badly they're playing at the moment they surely should qualify and there are some beatable teams in the draw. Dinamo Zagreb, Genk, APOEL Nicosia and Debrecen could be beaten. Unfortunately they'll prob get someone like Shaktar Donetsk or Slavia Prague who will run rings around them!

On their day Pat's and Drogheda shouldn't be too worried about anyone in the UEFA Cup draw.

[holidaysong]

... AIK and Helsingborg are both struggling in the Swedish league atm and they wouldn't necessarily be a bad draw either.

Is Henrik Larsson still playing for them? Could be a good money spinning draw if so...

[Shelsman]

The New Saints (Wales) would be a good draw for Derry, especially as it would be convenient to go to the away leg.

Mind you if I were a Derry supporter and Alan Matthews is offered the Derry job I'd be sh!tting my pants! :p

[SwanVsDalton]

It will be interesting to see who Derry get in the second round (draw also on Friday) Despite how badly they're playing at the moment they surely should qualify and there are some beatable teams in the draw. Dinamo Zagreb, Genk, APOEL Nicosia and Debrecen could be beaten. Unfortunately they'll prob get someone like Shaktar Donetsk or Slavia Prague who will run rings around them!

On their day Pat's and Drogheda shouldn't be too worried about anyone in the UEFA Cup draw.

I'm hoping for the San Marinese or Andorra reps, as long as we don't have to go to Kazakhstan I don't really mind! Also as exciting as a European tie with Linfield would be, there's a major chance we'd get beaten the way we've been playing.

[holidaysong]

The CL is an open draw then? No regionalisation?

[Steve Bruce]

It will be interesting to see who Derry get in the second round (draw also on Friday) Despite how badly they're playing at the moment they surely should qualify and there are some beatable teams in the draw. Dinamo Zagreb, Genk, APOEL Nicosia and Debrecen could be beaten. Unfortunately they'll prob get someone like Shaktar Donetsk or Slavia Prague who will run rings around them!

On their day Pat's and Drogheda shouldn't be too worried about anyone in the UEFA Cup draw.

And I was being accused of being cocky.

Being seeded doesn't mean LOI teams are dead certs to get through. I think Derry City should concentrate on winning their round first before thinking about the next draw.

[Steve Bruce]

Derry are seeded with those teams, we won't be drawn against them. I'm hoping for the San Marinese or Andorra reps, as long as we don't have to go to Kazakhstan I don't really mind! Also as exciting as a European tie with Linfield would be, there's a major chance we'd get beaten the way we've been playing.

To be honest, I really want to meet Derry City in Europe. We are unbeaten against Derry City and on top of that, Derry City are going through a torrid time at the moment.

Failing Derry City, a Finnish side would do. Their isn't really much difference in standard.

I just hope Linfield dont get Zagreb, going by co-efficients, they look like they would hammer Linfield.

[SwanVsDalton]

The CL is an open draw then? No regionalisation?

Yup certainly is. Which means that Derry City could be sampling the delights of Azerbaijan/ Armenia/ Belarus/ Kazakhstan if we're not lucky.

[OneRedArmy]

And I was being accused of being cocky.

Being seeded doesn't mean LOI teams are dead certs to get through. I think Derry City should concentrate on winning their round first before thinking about the next draw.He's a Galway fan in case you didn't know.

We couldn't beat snow off a rope at the minute, but I'm sure we would raise our game sufficiently if drawn against Linfield, just like the last time an EL side played and IL one in Europe, when we saw the advantage of playing mid-season.

However I'd rather we didn't draw Linfield because of the hoopla of staging the tie right in the middle of the marching season.

[ifk101]

Is Henrik Larsson still playing for them? Could be a good money spinning draw if so...

Aye, he's playing with them. Would be a good money spinner but it could end up with a large Oirish support shouting for the other team.

[Steve Bruce]

He's a Galway fan in case you didn't know.

We couldn't beat snow off a rope at the minute, but I'm sure we would raise our game sufficiently if drawn against Linfield, just like the last time an EL side played and IL one in Europe, when we saw the advantage of playing mid-season.

However I'd rather we didn't draw Linfield because of the hoopla of staging the tie right in the middle of the marching season.

I know, I'm talking about the arrogance from LOI supporters that they'll hammer this that and the other. When in actual fact, you could quite easily lose. Although I think confidence is good, but their is a thin line between confidence and arrogance.

Also Glentoran has never performed against LOI clubs, so comparing Glentoran to Linfield isn't really like for like. Also that same season Linfield beat them 3-0, 4-1, 1-0, drew 3-3, won 6-0, drew 0-0 and then beat them for the 5th time 2-1.

So it didn't really matter when Glentoran played, they where sh1t anyway.

[Steve Bruce]

Aye, he's playing with them. Would be a good money spinner but it could end up with a large Oirish support shouting for the other team.

If the money is put into the clubs coffers, would you really care who supports who?

[ifk101]

If the money is put into the clubs coffers, would you really care who supports who?

It would be preferable if the "home" support shouted for the home team. But it goes without saying you'd take their money :D

[Steve Bruce]

It would be preferable if the "home" support shouted for the home team. But it goes without saying you'd take their money :D

Well yeah.

Although I wish all the people who hated Linfield would attend the away end at Windsor Park every week to boo us. Sure we would be out numbered, but think of the money we would have to fund our teams full-time future:D

[Midgit]

How many teams do Derry have to beat to get to the Group stages?

And how many do Pats and Drogs have to beat as well?

[Cymro]

How many teams do Derry have to beat to get to the Group stages?

And how many do Pats and Drogs have to beat as well?

Three in both cases.

[Steve Bruce]

It's as good as impossible to qualify to the group stages of the CL league. UEFA is possible, but very very difficult.

[Midgit]

What is the story with the seeding? If you are seeded you get drawn against a non-seeded team? Is that how it works? Or can pats/drogs draw an unseeded team?

[Cymro]

What is the story with the seeding? If you are seeded you get drawn against a non-seeded team? Is that how it works? Or can pats/drogs draw an unseeded team?

Seedings get complicated after the first round, but in the first round it's fairly simple. The teams with the higher coefficients are seeded and will play those with the lower coefficients.

[Torn-Ado]

I'd expect Derry to get to the second round of the CL and no further. It will be a huge task to get to the 3rd round.

Regarding the UEFA, it could be tricky against the Scandinavian teams but I reckon they could take them, Häcken aren't in the top flight (how did they get through to Europe, they won nothing) and Henrik Larsson isn't the star he once was. From what I see, he's gets no service.

And whoever thinks that if an Irish team get Helsingborgs, more Irish will be supporting the Swedish team is talking out of his arse.

[Big Ears]

Seedings get complicated after the first round, but in the first round it's fairly simple. The teams with the higher coefficients are seeded and will play those with the lower coefficients.

It's not really that complicated , 'Unseeded teams in the 1st qualification round that qualify for the next round take effectively the coefficient of their opponent in the next round. The reason for this is that the draw for the 2nd qualification round is made before the results of the 1st qualification round are known.'

'Unseeded teams in the 2nd qualification round that qualify for the next round take effectively the coefficient of their opponent in the next round. The reason for this is that the draw for the 3rd qualification round is made before the results of the 2nd qualification round are known. In the 3rd qualifying round teams from the same country cannot play against each other.'

Pretty simple to understand .

[Steve Bruce]

If anyone got Zagreb and qualified, they would be in a very strong position as they would be seeded in the 2nd round against teams of similar stature. It is however a massive ask which I hope Linfield wont need to worry about.

[Big Ears]

If anyone got Zagreb and qualified, they would be in a very strong position as they would be seeded in the 2nd round against teams of similar stature. It is however a massive ask which I hope Linfield wont need to worry about.

Apoel Nicosia are also seeded in the next round and would be a much easier task imo .

[pineapple stu]

It's as good as impossible to qualify to the group stages of the CL league. UEFA is possible, but very very difficult.
True.

For the eL teams, the target has to be all three teams through the First Round again (difficult enough in itself) and then enough coefficient points to ensure seeding in the UEFA Cup next year.

We come into this year ranked 35th, but only drop 0.166 from five years ago. Just dropping all 2002/03 results brings us up to 34th, closing a big gap on a couple of leagues above us. A season like last year for all countries would see us move up to 30th or so.

[Aaron]

Apoel Nicosia are also seeded in the next round and would be a much easier task imo .

Are they by ****. They tore us apart 4 years ago at the Brandywell.

[SwanVsDalton]

Are they by ****. They tore us apart 4 years ago at the Brandywell.

That was a dreadful Derry side that still managed to get a fantastic result away from home. I'd even take this year's duffer's over that Keely helmed rubbish.

Besides I think he was comparing them to Zagreb, in which case he's right, APOEL are much easier.

[JC_GUFC]

Häcken aren't in the top flight (how did they get through to Europe, they won nothing)

I think they won the fair play league in Sweden last season and got a place in the UEFA Cup even though they were relegated!

As for being cocky about Derry qualifying, if you look at the results of eL clubs in the CL over the past few years

00/01 Shels 2 Sloga Jugomagnat 1 AGG
01/02 Bohs 3 Levadia Maardu 3-0 AGG
02/03 Shels 2 Hibernian 3 AGG
03/04 Bohs 3 BATE Borisov 1 AGG
04/05 Shels 2 KR Rekjavik 2 AGG (Shels on Away Goals)
05/06 Shels 6 Glentoran 2 AGG
06/07 Cork 2 Apollon Limassol 1 AGG

Most of the teams Irish clubs have played have been near to the top of the non-seeds (Shels were unseeded in 2000).

Derry would beat any of the bottom half of the unseeded teams, even playing as poorly as they are, and should be able to beat the rest of the teams, though drawing Linfield would probably be the worst, other than maybe drawing the Armenians, Azeris or Kazakhs.

As the draw for the second round is also on Friday I don't think there's a problem hoping they get as kind a draw as possible there giving them a chance of making the 3rd qualifying round and a shot at the UEFA Cup 1st round.

Maybe Linfield's attitude is that you'll lose in the 1st round so the second round draw doesn't matter...

[Steve Bruce]

I can assure you, unless we get the two top seeds, Linfield has every possibility of qualifying and we are taking this years Europe very seriously. Our goals have changed somewhat in recent years as we ahve won everything domestically and our goal is now European progression.

I think we can reach the 2nd round. The 3rd round though might be a little too much to ask.

The Cypriot teams are very good teams, although the last time we played one we won 5-3 at home but lost 5-1 away. But we played in terrible heat of 45degrees and the changing rooms where so hot that Linfield changed outside. We also had no cold running water and our players got food poisoning. So it really was a trip to forget.

Linfields weak point in the team is our ageing defense, I fear that if we don't sort this out we could get tanked by any team with a bit of pace. In Europea and in the Setanta cup.

[Steve Bruce]

I think they won the fair play league in Sweden last season and got a place in the UEFA Cup even though they were relegated!

As for being cocky about Derry qualifying, if you look at the results of eL clubs in the CL over the past few years

00/01 Shels 2 Sloga Jugomagnat 1 AGG
01/02 Bohs 3 Levadia Maardu 3-0 AGG
02/03 Shels 2 Hibernian 3 AGG
03/04 Bohs 3 BATE Borisov 1 AGG
04/05 Shels 2 KR Rekjavik 2 AGG (Shels on Away Goals)
05/06 Shels 6 Glentoran 2 AGG
06/07 Cork 2 Apollon Limassol 1 AGG

Most of the teams Irish clubs have played have been near to the top of the non-seeds (Shels were unseeded in 2000).

Derry would beat any of the bottom half of the unseeded teams, even playing as poorly as they are, and should be able to beat the rest of the teams, though drawing Linfield would probably be the worst, other than maybe drawing the Armenians, Azeris or Kazakhs.

As the draw for the second round is also on Friday I don't think there's a problem hoping they get as kind a draw as possible there giving them a chance of making the 3rd qualifying round and a shot at the UEFA Cup 1st round.

Maybe Linfield's attitude is that you'll lose in the 1st round so the second round draw doesn't matter...

LOI clubs should be confident. But if they went into the matches with the attitude your portraying, then that could be your downfall. Europe is very difficult because of the different styles of play, the LOI teams have shown great progression which I can only look on in envy and I think the FAI has to accept a lot of credit for helping with grants setup training camps etc. In IL football our teams get no backing.

By all means be confident, but to write off the first round as a mere formality is a very dangerous game to play. When Linfield beat Copenhagen 3nil at Windsor, we went out thinking the tie was over. Unfortunately they scored 2 quick goals and then the referee played 7 minutes over time(where he got that no one knows) and they equalised with the final kick of the ball, before beating us in Extra time. That is what happens when you take things for granted.

[dcfcsteve]

For the eL teams, the target has to be all three teams through the First Round again (difficult enough in itself)

All 4 teams more like !

I know the Inter-Tonto Lone Ranger Cup doesn't get you co-efficient points, but we should be progressing on all fronts in Europe regardless of the competition.

[Cymro]

All 4 teams more like !

I know the Inter-Tonto Lone Ranger Cup doesn't get you co-efficient points, but we should be progressing on all fronts in Europe regardless of the competition.

Essentially, the Intertoto is a bit pointless. You don't get much prize money for entering, you don't get coefficient points and should you 'win' it as one of six or seven 'winners', your reward is a place in the second qualifying round of the UEFA Cup. Wow. :rolleyes:

I don't see the point of it myself especially for Welsh Premier sides when it comes so long before the start of the season. Still well over a month to go before the first league game of the season here.

Bring back the Cup Winners' Cup then we can play in Europe again!:D

[dcfcsteve]

Essentially, the Intertoto is a bit pointless. You don't get much prize money for entering, you don't get coefficient points and should you 'win' it as one of six or seven 'winners', your reward is a place in the second qualifying round of the UEFA Cup. Wow. :rolleyes:

I don't see the point of it myself especially for Welsh Premier sides when it comes so long before the start of the season. Still well over a month to go before the first league game of the season here.

Bring back the Cup Winners' Cup then we can play in Europe again!:D

The only proper way we can bench-mark and track the on-field progress of our league is how we're doing vis-a-vis other leagues.

Any competition that enables us to do this is therefore useful.

I doubt Cork Cty fans will agree with your analysis of their away win on Saturday being in a pointless tournament - and certainly not their 2004 InterToto run of results against Malo, Nijmegen and Nantes.

[Steve Bruce]

The only proper way we can bench-mark and track the on-field progress of our league is how we're doing vis-a-vis other leagues.

Any competition that enables us to do this is therefore useful.

I doubt Cork Cty fans will agree with your analysis of their away win on Saturday being in a pointless tournament - and certainly not their 2004 InterToto run of results against Malo, Nijmegen and Nantes.

It is only useful if the teams you are playing in Europe are in the middle of their leagues as well.

Or in the ILs and Welsh Leagues case, if we played teams who are not in season.

[Cymro]

The only proper way we can bench-mark and track the on-field progress of our league is how we're doing vis-a-vis other leagues.

Any competition that enables us to do this is therefore useful.

I doubt Cork City fans will agree with your analysis of their away win on Saturday being in a pointless tournament - and certainly not their 2004 InterToto run of results against Malo, Nijmegen and Nantes.

I suppose if you get a reasonably big club in the draw it can be financially fairly lucrative.

But I also feel if you're in the middle of a league campaign it can be an irritation, because there's not a great deal of reward and you risk picking up injuries to key players.

If you're out of season the risk of injury is even higher and your levels of preperation particularly for a tournament that's right in the middle of your off season are likely to be poor.

[SÓC]

It is only useful if the teams you are playing in Europe are in the middle of their leagues as well.

Or in the ILs and Welsh Leagues case, if we played teams who are not in season.

With the greatest of respect its a lot more useful than that.

The experience gained is vital IMO, not just for Europe but also for high profile matches at home. You learn new things every time you play in Europe. Our intertoto run in 2004 got our players so much experience which really stood to us the following years in the League, UEFA and CL.

One one very small example of things you pick up on various trips;
You mentioned the trouble Linfield had in the heat in Cyprus earlier in the thread. We played in the Lithuania in extreme heat. We won 2-0 but our players suffered badly. We learned our lesson. The following year in Cyprus we have fans with us in the dressing rooms, salt tablets, change of jersey for every player which were kept in ice boxes etc etc.

[dcfcsteve]

It is only useful if the teams you are playing in Europe are in the middle of their leagues as well.

Or in the ILs and Welsh Leagues case, if we played teams who are not in season.

In a perfect world - yes.......

[Shelsman]

I don't see the point of it myself especially for Welsh Premier sides when it comes so long before the start of the season. Still well over a month to go before the first league game of the season here.

I don't see the point either, sure ye'll be beaten no matter what time of year ye play. Cannon fodder for the eL I think ( except Longford -who thought they just had to turn up to win ).

[Shelsman]

We learned our lesson. The following year in Cyprus we had fans with us in the dressing rooms, salt tablets, change of jersey for every player which were kept in ice boxes etc etc.

What were the fans doing there -getting autographs? ;)

[Dr.Nightdub]

Think he meant fans that blow not fans that chant

[Dodge]

Can't belive you let an oppurtunity to compare hot and cold air go nightdub.

[Cymro]

I don't see the point either, sure ye'll be beaten no matter what time of year ye play. Cannon fodder for the eL I think ( except Longford -who thought they just had to turn up to win ).

Way to twist what I said to use it as a derogatory comment. We'd be a lot more competitive if this competition came a month later-you only have to look at our UEFA and Champions' League performances, which while not great are a heck of a lot more competitive than our intertoto performances.

I'm really not going to rise to this blatantly obvious attempt at baiting, so suffice to say you completely missed the point of my post. Congrats.

[Steve Bruce]

Way to twist what I said to use it as a derogatory comment. We'd be a lot more competitive if this competition came a month later-you only have to look at our UEFA and Champions' League performances, which while not great are a heck of a lot more competitive than our intertoto performances.

I'm really not going to rise to this blatantly obvious attempt at baiting, so suffice to say you completely missed the point of my post. Congrats.

Incidently what Welsh team do you support chum? Will you be over to watch Linfield vs TNS Saturday week?

[Cymro]

Incidently what Welsh team do you support chum? Will you be over to watch Linfield vs TNS Saturday week?

Swansea. (watch Port Talbot on some weekends, if Swansea have a long away trip to Stockport or the like)

I'll probably watch Llanelli at Carmarthen this weekend. Not really planning on watching TNS v Linfield, I only usually watch Welsh Premier sides in the South West Wales area.

[Steve Bruce]

Here's a thing on wikipedia. It's a League of Leagues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficients#League_coefficient