Athlone vs. Shelbourne - Incidents herein

[feo123]

apologies if this has already been talked about but ive been off this for the last month....
have many people seen this?.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB7keHZ4yJ8 got to about 5.40 and it prooves just how poor the standard of refereeing is here

[pineapple stu]

I don't think one incident can prove much, really.

Yes, there are some poor referees, and there are some good ones. I'll come up with one some time...

Edit - that said, did the ref just send someone off because he (the ref) walked backwards into him?!

[Schumi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB7keHZ4yJ8 got to about 5.40 and it proves just how poor the standard of refereeing is hereThat's unbelievable. :eek:

[seand]

Now that is truly and utterly astounding. That's incredible... and I can't believe I'm going to type this... but I feel sorry for Shels. Unbelievable.

[feo123]

it's the worst decision ive seen in LOI i think. truly amazing

[Réiteoir]

although did superbly to get in there quickly on the second dismissal to get the Shels player off the pitch as soon as possible to prevent it getting even more out of hand.

all i can assume there is that the second Shels player also said something to the referee as he stepped back to provoke a second yellow.

Anyway - the thread so far is fine - as long as it doesn't decend into the usual bitching and going off on one about other incidents it'll remain open.

[Réiteoir]

Ah-ha - just as I surmised.


Alan Murphy soon followed him off for dissent as he argued too much with Sutton over Lacey's dismissal.

From the Athlone Town site.

[Battery Rover]

First this is in no way defending the ref but it is unfair comment the way you have on that without knowing the full story.

That sending off was just after a Shelbourne player was sent off for a lunge at O'Dowd and things at that stage were a little heated.

Did anyone see the referees report to confirm what he was sent off for as it could have been for something he said as was the first impression most of us had including some of the Shels lads I spoke to after the match.

Padraig Sutton is a regular at our matches and always seems to have some debatable decisions but fair play to him and all referrees for being willing to do this job as it is one I definitely wouldn't do.

[Raheny Red]

Now that is truly and utterly astounding. That's incredible... and I can't believe I'm going to type this... but I feel sorry for Shels. Unbelievable.

Oh..my........god :eek::eek::eek:

[gilberto_eire]

tbh after watching it a few times i wouldnt say its for arguing about the decision too much.
the ref is clearly running backwards in the shels players direction and the shels player can be seen putting out his hands and pushing him as a form of defense to stop him just bumping into him... it then looks like the ref thinks he's just had a shove at him for no reason!!.... anyone agree?

[Raheny Red]

tbh after watching it a few times i wouldnt say its for arguing about the decision too much.
the ref is clearly running backwards in the shels players direction and the shels player can be seen putting out his hands and pushing him as a form of defense to stop him just bumping into him... it then looks like the ref thinks he's just had a shove at him for no reason!!.... anyone agree?


Agreed, that's what I first thought at the game.

[Réiteoir]

I'm with the Battery Rover on this one.

He may well have pushed the official and as he did said something like "Watch where you're going - that was a joke decision you ******", or something similar.

Only way we would find out is if the content or outline of the report is made public (which they never are, in line with UEFA Procedures).

The report on the Athlone website (which I linked to the relevant section above) - would have been clairified with the player or the officials after the game - it's common practise for the officials, etc. to give reason for a caution/dismissal if asked after the match.

Haven't got access to the video here in work - but iirc from watching it last night - the referee gave the Shels lad a second yellow to dismiss him. A push on a referee is a striaght red - dissent is a yellow.

From these facts we can make a pretty good determination that he was dismissed for something he said.

Oh - and any more mongy references to other referees in here (take note theskinloyal) will be binned straight off.

[Réiteoir]

God almighty it is hardly crime of the century what he said !

Thing is though RT - one comment of this nature and some of the more easily led elements think it's free reign to spout forth the delusional crap from their keyboards.

See any "trouble at games", Bohs - Rovers, Shels debts, Cork vs. the Known Universe or "OMG Sean Connor is the Antichrist becuase he went onto better things" thread.

This is merely a proactive measure - saves on the inevitable calling for cards, freaking out, moaning, and all out abuse outcomes...

[Jerry The Saint]

Thing is though RT - one comment of this nature and some of the more easily led elements think it's free reign to spout forth the delusional crap from their keyboards.


Just so we know, what was the "mongy" part of the comment - implying that Graham Poll might not have been the best ref in the world or implying that the ref in the video was like Graham Poll:confused:

For what it's worth, I think refs are far too lenient with backchat and, if the Shels player did say something, he was more than justified in giving a second yellow. They should bring in a zero tolerance policy like in rugby (one of the few sports where the players have to show respect for the officials).

[Battery Rover]

The manager can go to the referees room after the match and ask about any decision that was made for clarification. I would be pretty sure whoever was in charge that night while the manager was on holidays would have done this as it would be a normal procedure.

Maybe one of the Shels lads is on contact terms with the club and could find out what the referees report states or just get clarification from the person in charge that night.

If the refs report said it was for a push I am sure the club would have appealed the red card immediately.

That night there were two cameras at the ground Eric from Shels and myself so there was no lack of video footage to overturn it.

[Réiteoir]

It is a football forum we should be allowed to crtisise refs part and parcell of the game. There is some shocking refs in the league thats a fact and there are refs that simply are not good enough, i for one have seen so many bizarre decisions that i actually go to games and i would say like many fans worrying about who the ref is ! That really should not happen that you are actually concerned who you are getting for the man in the middle.

As for the rest of your comments about a Sean Connor Thread you mention, i believe no such thread was ever wrote ! If there was could you bump this thread ! Connor may have been crtisised for his actions by our fans and Bohs fans for his gestures a few weeks ago or comments that were printed in the media coming from him. Or maybe you just made that up ? Which if you did is clearly an attempt to get a reaction out of me which i would not expect of a coach, poor stuff !

RT - I'm all for that - as long as it's CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM - and not a deluded "foaming at the mouth" style ranting hatchet job - which invariably these things do decend into.

It may come as a surprise to you and many on here - but a few years ago before you registered on here we actually had a "Referees" subforum on here - setup to answer queries put by people on Law, to calmly debate the issues arising from games.

It was shelved in the end due to the amount of rubbish being spouted in it - much like you see in threads of this time nowadays - the aforementioned "foaming at the mouth" rant with no merit or redeeming features therein.

Unfortunately with the amount of cash swimming about the game today (not necesarily in our little league here) and the amount of TV coverage, camera angles, slo-motion replays, mistakes and errors cannot helped but be highlighted, disected, and debated until the protagonists are blue in the face.

This consequently puts the referee some way into the spotlight - there are ordinary football fans in Spain that can reel off the full list of referees in La Liga along with where they're from, what games they did, how many cards and penalties they'd awarded so far this season without skipping a beat.

Newsflash - there have been errors and controversy strewn throughout the game since it's organised inception in the North of England on September 8th 1888 - only we didn't get Sky back then and these incidents weren't debated to death - we simply got on with it.


To close and address the second point - thought it was clear from the other supposed thread types I listed that it was a bit of over the top banter (ergo the "RRS" references).

I have however noticed that anything which happens and is posted concerning SC or his previous dealings and current job on here gets met with the kind of Witchfinder General treatment from some quarters up in the North West.

Methinks you may need to return the sarcasm detector for repairs - it doesn't seem to be working...

[John83]

Was that two yellows seconds apart? Bloody hell. Réiteoir could be right, there may have been something said, but I doubt it. What's more, even if there was, it doesn't justify sending him off. Pathetic refereeing.

[Réiteoir]

as BR said - we can ruminate and hypothesise all we like - we do need clairification from someone who is privy to the full information

[John83]

There are exactly two of those, and both of them are biased.

[atfconline]

You'll see when the suspensions come out - how many games he gets done for.

[Réiteoir]

pretty good point there atfc

2nd yellow as a result of dissent - normally 1 game

making contact with a referee - violent conduct - 3 games or more

[DmanDmythDledge]

Pathetic refereeing.
How is it pathetic? As as been pointed out it's obvious that he said something.


What's more, even if there was, it doesn't justify sending him off.
That's why he only got booked for it.

[John83]

How is it pathetic? As as been pointed out it's obvious that he said something.
So what? The referee can't provoke a reaction from a player and then send him off for it. The whole thing merits a yellow if what he said was abusive, and barely at that. The letter of the law might back up the ref here, but he's ****ed up a game because he wasn't looking where he was going.

[DmanDmythDledge]

So what? The referee can't provoke a reaction from a player and then send him off for it. The whole thing merits a yellow if what he said was abusive, and barely at that. The letter of the law might back up the ref here, but he's ****ed up a game because he wasn't looking where he was going.
He didn't provoke a reaction- it was accidental. The player saw him coming more than 5 seconds before and could have easily stepped out of the way. And just because he bumped into the player doesn't mean he has to get abused.

[atfconline]

So what? The referee can't provoke a reaction from a player and then send him off for it. The whole thing merits a yellow if what he said was abusive, and barely at that. The letter of the law might back up the ref here, but he's ****ed up a game because he wasn't looking where he was going.

If he was yellow carded for dissent, it was in relation to Lacey's sending off just beforehand, not the referee running into him. He was already on a yellow from earlier in the game.

So you can't say "The referee can't provoke a reaction from a player and then send him off for it."

[Risteard]

It's not obvious that he said something untoward at all.
Incidentally, It's a bit crazy that his team-mates weren't protesting.

[DmanDmythDledge]

It's not obvious that he said something untoward at all.
What do you think dissent is?


Incidentally, It's a bit crazy that his team-mates weren't protesting.
Does that not tell you something?

[Mr A]

I have no idea what happened in this case, but it is quite obvious that this ref, and indeed all others should be either burned at the stake, crucified or a combination of the two.

[Hitman]

I have no idea what happened in this case, but it is quite obvious that this ref, and indeed all others should be either burned at the stake, crucified or a combination of the two.

Finally, the voice of reason.

[osarusan]

How is it pathetic? As as been pointed out it's obvious that he said something.



And just because he bumped into the player doesn't mean he has to get abused.


What do you think dissent is?



How can you be so certain he was abused? The ref hasnt said it, and the player himself hasnt said it, and it isnt obvious from the youtube clip.

What is obvious from the clip is that the ref backed into him and then sent him off. We can guess, but not assume, anything else.

It is possible that the player said something, and it is also possible that the ref, who wasnt looking where he was going, thought the player had pushed him, and sent him off incorrectly.

[Réiteoir]

pretty good summary osa - we can't tell yet - only guess and make a stab at it (no pun intended btw :D) .

Hopefully we'll get it clarified when the suspenders are published in a couple of weeks.

[sfc red]

It's not obvious that he said something untoward at all.
Incidentally, It's a bit crazy that his team-mates weren't protesting.

And get themseleves sent off for SFA too?

[Réiteoir]

And get themseleves sent off for SFA too?

What have the Super Furry Animals got to do with this? :confused:

[Anto McC]

I was at the game and i've no doubts from seeing the incident that the ref ran into Alan Murphy and then sent him off because he thought AM pushed him.

The forum is being over moderated,Réiteoir you need to relax,the power is gone to your head.

[Réiteoir]

I was at the game and i've no doubts from seeing the incident that the ref ran into Alan Murphy and then sent him off because he thought AM pushed him.

The forum is being over moderated,Réiteoir you need to relax,the power is gone to your head.

Fine - I'll just pop off and hand in my resignation to the admins - seeing as according to you we'd be better off without my services.

Actually I could do with the extra free time.

[BohsFans]

Thanks for opening my eyes to the fact bud - much appreciated. :rolleyes:

:D


It wouldn't surprise me if Alan Murphy said something to the ref.

[Anto McC]

seeing as according to you we'd be better off without my services.

Can you quote me,where i said this?

[DmanDmythDledge]

How can you be so certain he was abused? The ref hasnt said it, and the player himself hasnt said it, and it isnt obvious from the youtube clip.
I'm going by an earlier post by someone from Athlone who said that it was clarified that it was dissent before being included in the match report.

[Réiteoir]

Can you quote me,where i said this?

I'll field this one once and once only:


The forum is being over moderated,Réiteoir you need to relax,the power is gone to your head

I read that to be another way of saying "sling yer hook" - perverse thing is - prior to today and Friday night - I hadn't logged into here for any length of time since the Bank Holiday weekend.

So I don't really see where that is coming from.

Anyway - point made, case closed, move on.

[Anto McC]

I read that to be another way of saying "sling yer hook" - perverse thing is - prior to today and Friday night - I hadn't logged into here for any length of time since the Bank Holiday weekend.

So I don't really see where that is coming from.

Anyway - point made, case closed, move on.

I'll say this once and once only,i said nothing of what you thought i meant and i don't think i should be held accountable and/or punished for your imagination running away with you.

[John83]

Réiteoir, I read it as Anto claims to have meant it - relax a bit. There's no problem, but I know it's easy to get a bit too strict in a contentious thread.

Back on topic: Dmanetc. is the quote you are referring to "Alan Murphy soon followed him off for dissent as he argued too much with Sutton over Lacey's dismissal."? That's from Athlone's website, and if it's anything like a lot of eL websites, that's based on a quick worth with a random club official or a guess. Regardless, "argued too much"? He was booked before he had time to say more than a few words. If it was dissent, it was something pretty abusive. It doesn't look right to me.

[FarmHoop]

Just saw the clip on youtube, the same mistakes will never leave this league, the FAI told all clubs to get their house in order but still fail to look closer to home

[feo123]

id say when the ref back into the player, the shels lad must have said something, it was a second yellow, if it was for pushing the ref it would have been a straight red.

[Casei11]

shocking

[neville neville]

well for what its worth, murphy claimed after the game he didnt say anything to the ref

[John83]

well for what its worth, murphy claimed after the game he didnt say anything to the ref
Just looked at the video again. If he said anything, he wasn't obvious about it - obviously it's hard to tell given the resolution of the footage, but his body language doesn't suggest someone swearing heatedly or anything like that until the ref books him.

[passerrby]

my guess he looked into the players eyes and saw something like "you blind twaw you have not seen a thing all night" or words to that effect

[neville neville]

it was a shame that, that was the game Dermot Keely couldnt make it to. i would have loved to see his reaction

[Battery Rover]

it was a shame that, that was the game Dermot Keely couldnt make it to. i would have loved to see his reaction

Definitely would have been worth seeing:D


Erics footage might show something as his camera was directly in line with the incident from what I remember.

Hopefully someone will get info on the refs report from the club.

[atfconline]

Murphy has been given a two-game ban for his sending off.