An All-Ireland FA Cup?

[Réiteoir]

Brian de Salvo has just suggested merging the FAI and Irish Cups into one big super-competition.

Any takers for this? Sounds like a superb idea!

[SkStu]

he's a great speaker. It sounds like a good idea to me.

[Paddyfield]

...and what about Europe? That would reduce the amount of Clubs from this island by one. Besides, isn't the Setanta Cup doing a good job? Cobh v Larne would cost a fortune in logistics.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Terrible idea IMO. Taking away the national cup competition would be scandalous. However I think it would be a good idea to merge the League Cups, but that's probably not feasible due to midweek games.

[gufcfan]

I'd have to agree with paddyfield.

A cross-border FA cup would have a negative effect on clubs in the lower wrungs of the respective leagues and also non-league clubs were they to be included.

That said, I can see a lot of clubs fancying the idea of playing teams from norn iron, but most will see the financial downside.

The Setanta Cup is an attractive proposition for clubs involved and for those who aspire to it. I would hazard a guess that the financial bonus from receiving a place in it, is the main reason it is valued by clubs north and south.

Dont get me wrong, show me a club that couldn't do without a few 100k.
The supporters recognise this also and see the good it can do for a club.

A cross-border FA cup would be void of any spirit. Teams play in the FAI cup because of its heritage among other things. Scrapping what we have already would be a step.

Merging the cups would mean either us or the north having one less team in europe every year also.

[pineapple stu]

...and what about Europe? That would reduce the amount of Clubs from this island by one.
Just let dcfcsteve do the maths. Poof! Logic disappears.

[superfrank]

Hopefully neither association are dumb enough to relinquish their cup place.

[Mr A]

Merge the main cup competitions- no.

Merge the league cup competitions- yes. Perhaps make entry optional and rig the first round draw to have all cross border ties.

[superfrank]

The league cup was circling the drain as it was. The Setanta Cup saved it. I think any further alterations would just mess it up and devalue it.

We already have an all-Ireland cup competition, let's see that grow first.

[Not Brazil]

This is interesting:

IFA backs plans for Celtic Cup
Talks at advanced stage says Boyce
Thursday, June 14, 2007

By Chris Holt

The Irish FA are involved in talks with other home associations in a move to set up a Celtic Cup competition.

IFA president Jim Boyce has revealed plans are afoot for a representative from the Carnegie Premier League, the eircom League, the SPL and the Welsh Premier or Welsh FA to take part in an early season competition, which would net thousands of pounds for the winners.

The tournament, which could kick-off as early as 2009, will see four teams go into the hat for a place in the lucrative final, while the two runners-up will play for third place.

Boyce, who was in Vienna last night making the draw for the UEFA under 19 Championships, says that talks "are at a very advanced stage" for a competition that would certainly help raise the profile of our domestic league.

"This is part of our ongoing talks in relation to how we could expand on the success of the Setanta Cup," he said.

"As everyone is aware, we have been trying desperately to get the British Championships up and running again on an international level and England have been the major sticking point.

"But the other home nations, including the FAI, have been moving to seek how we could work together on different matters and this is one of the things that we have come up with."

The news comes after reports emanating from the Welsh press yesterday claimed that Irish League clubs could be invited along with Scottish sides to take part in a revamped Welsh Premier Cup.

It was reported that eircom League clubs were not being asked because their league runs through the summer while teams from Northern Ireland and Scotland not competing in Europe would be eligible for inclusion.

The suggestion is that the Welsh FA were looking for a way of adding interest to their flailing Premier Cup competition by bringing clubs from here and the SPL on board.

At the minute the cup is made up by the top seven teams from the Welsh Premier League, the highest placed side out of Newport County, Merthyr Tydfil and Colwyn Bay as well as the three Welsh sides who play in the Football League ? Cardiff City, Wrexham and Swansea.

[Aaron]

This is interesting:

IFA backs plans for Celtic Cup
Talks at advanced stage says Boyce
Thursday, June 14, 2007

By Chris Holt

The Irish FA are involved in talks with other home associations in a move to set up a Celtic Cup competition.

IFA president Jim Boyce has revealed plans are afoot for a representative from the Carnegie Premier League, the eircom League, the SPL and the Welsh Premier or Welsh FA to take part in an early season competition, which would net thousands of pounds for the winners.

The tournament, which could kick-off as early as 2009, will see four teams go into the hat for a place in the lucrative final, while the two runners-up will play for third place.

Boyce, who was in Vienna last night making the draw for the UEFA under 19 Championships, says that talks "are at a very advanced stage" for a competition that would certainly help raise the profile of our domestic league.

"This is part of our ongoing talks in relation to how we could expand on the success of the Setanta Cup," he said.

"As everyone is aware, we have been trying desperately to get the British Championships up and running again on an international level and England have been the major sticking point.

"But the other home nations, including the FAI, have been moving to seek how we could work together on different matters and this is one of the things that we have come up with."

The news comes after reports emanating from the Welsh press yesterday claimed that Irish League clubs could be invited along with Scottish sides to take part in a revamped Welsh Premier Cup.

It was reported that eircom League clubs were not being asked because their league runs through the summer while teams from Northern Ireland and Scotland not competing in Europe would be eligible for inclusion.

The suggestion is that the Welsh FA were looking for a way of adding interest to their flailing Premier Cup competition by bringing clubs from here and the SPL on board.

At the minute the cup is made up by the top seven teams from the Welsh Premier League, the highest placed side out of Newport County, Merthyr Tydfil and Colwyn Bay as well as the three Welsh sides who play in the Football League ? Cardiff City, Wrexham and Swansea.

Well if they wernt to ask IL clubs who are in Europe it would spoil the competition. Thats taking away the 4 top clubs in the league. Same as Scotland, although I doubt Celtic, Rangers, Hearts or Hibs would take part. I think the Setanta cup is enough for the IL, there would be far too many compeitions and would make players burn out.

[Not Brazil]

Well if they wernt to ask IL clubs who are in Europe it would spoil the competition. Thats taking away the 4 top clubs in the league. Same as Scotland, although I doubt Celtic, Rangers, Hearts or Hibs would take part. I think the Setanta cup is enough for the IL, there would be far too many compeitions and would make players burn out.

I think this latest idea is a four team tournament, not excluding those clubs who are participating in Europe.

I agree with you that to exclude European qualifiers would spoil the competition.

However, I'm with those who believe an expanded Setanta Cup competition, on this island alone, is the way to go at this time.

Blues v Bohs etc, has more appeal to me than Blues v Motherwell.

[gspain]

I think an expanded Setanta Cup is a fantastic idea partisularly if it goes as far as to include the top 3 in the 1st division.

However I'd hate to see the FAI Cup (or indeed the Irish Cup) being dropped. there is no need either we can still have both.

[Cymro]

Interesting to hear the IFA are interested in the Celtic Cup idea. Getting the Scots on board will probably be the main stumbling block but good news on the Irish side.

[Big Ears]

I'd have to agree with paddyfield.
Merging the cups would mean either us or the north having one less team in europe every year also.

How so ? , considering winning a cup does not automatically enter a team into European competition anyway .

The Association of each country decides which teams enter into Europe and most of them have just set up a structure by which the National Cup winners get a place .

The FAI could select Kildare for the Champions League if they liked no matter where they finnished in the league .

So neither Association would lose a place they would just have to re-determine their criteria for getting into Europe and would probably just give the league an extra UEFA cup place should the winner of an All-Ireland Cup not come from that Association . Giving it to the League Cup winners is another idea .

The only way European places would be lost is if the FAI and IFA merged together not just merged competitions .
With that said each Association does need its own league , as required by UEFA/FIFA(ah one of them organising bodies)


For those of you interested in getting an All-Ireland League , there is a way around this law .
Lets say there was an All-Ireland League of 10 teams in the Premier Division , 5 from the North and 5 from the Republic(well 4+ Derry :D) .

Assume the League is made up of Linfield , Glentoran , Cliftonville , Portadown and Lisburn Distillery from the North and Drogheda , St Pats , Derry , Bohs and Cork .

Now each team would play the 30 games or so in the All-Ireland League season but in effect they would be in two leagues . The All-Ireland League and Northern Ireland/Republic of Ireland League . With results for teams from the North against other teams from the North counting towards the Northern league aswell as the All-Ireland one .

Results for teams from the Republic against other sides from the Republic would count towards the Republic of Ireland League .

In this manner Associations would retain a national league aswell as having an All-ireland League and the amount of games would not be increased .

[dcfcsteve]

Just let dcfcsteve do the maths. Poof! Logic disappears.

Yawn....

Just because you'd need 8 Euro slots in any one league for UCD to get a sniff of an international game....

[BohsPartisan]

Just let dcfcsteve do the maths. Poof!

Homophobia has no place on foot.ie! :D

[dcfcsteve]

Homophobia has no place on foot.ie! :D

How do you think he got the 'Pineapple' nickname....? :eek:

Ouch....! :D

[L37Ultra]

Brian de Salvo has just suggested merging the FAI and Irish Cups into one big super-competition.

Any takers for this? Sounds like a superb idea!


Isnt it called the Seatanna CUP?

[DmanDmythDledge]

Isnt it called the Seatanna CUP?
Good God no, and I'm not refering to the Seatanna bit.

[Steve Bruce]

I think the best way for having an All-Island league type thing would be to.

Have the top 5 teams in ROI and the Top 5 teams in the IL play each other twice.

And to compete in the All-Island League you drop out of the League cup to free up fixture dates.

It also takes the IL to move to summer football or the LOI to move to Winter football.(i would personally favour summer football)

[hoops1]

Brian de Salvo has just suggested merging the FAI and Irish Cups into one big super-competition.

Any takers for this? Sounds like a superb idea!

Forgive my ignorance but who is Brian de Salvo when hes at home?

[Saint MacDara]

I think the best way for having an All-Island league type thing would be to.

Have the top 5 teams in ROI and the Top 5 teams in the IL play each other twice.



Thats pretty much the Setanta Cup with 2 extra teams.
Irish League sides havent faired too well lately (exception Linfield),so 5 IL teams might cause more embarrassment to their league.

[superfrank]

I think it'd only be fair to have equal numbers from both associations if there was to be an All-Ireland league. I know other el fans get ****ed at this suggestion but it's only fair and if in fact the el is stronger than the IL then theoretically the "crap" IL teams would all go down after one season and be replaced by other el teams who would clearly runaway with the first division as el teams are clearly so much better. :rolleyes:

[pineapple stu]

Forgive my ignorance but who is Brian de Salvo when hes at home?
Ex Drums player who now does a very good column on RTÉ Radio 1 after the Friday night coverage. Think he supports Bray, but is often seen at Belfield and will claim to follow any team who lay good football.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Think he supports Bray, but is often seen at Belfield and will claim to follow any team who lay good football.
So he comes from the Joe Gamble School of Football Molestation?

[don ramo]

terrrible idea even the settanta cup is a bad idea it gives a good persepective of the differences in the leagues but that it and more money of course, but think of it douglas hall a MSL team are playin there eqivilent in the IL league think how much a crowd would turn out and how much it would cost to travel and all that with MSL wages, and dont even bother sayin regionalisation because that is the worst thing i have ever heard, its a cup all team are chucked in and pulled at random, its not suppose to be rigged so you dont get the team furthest away.

[Lim till i die]

Forgive my ignorance but who is Brian de Salvo when hes at home?

Wasn't he the Boston Strangler??

[Steve Bruce]

Thats pretty much the Setanta Cup with 2 extra teams.
Irish League sides havent faired too well lately (exception Linfield),so 5 IL teams might cause more embarrassment to their league.

The problem really is to do with timing.

For instance, Portadown where really strong in our league around November - January but when the Setanta hit, coupled with Irish cup and Irish League they just didn't have the strength in depth to cope. They also lost there full defensive line up as well. Needless to say, there league performance went down hill big time as did their performance in the Setanta.

I really think next season we will compete a lot better and last season was just a very very bad season for IL football.

ALso the setanta cup has 2 groups not one. If we had 1 group, then the likes of Glentoran would be able to compete better as they will be playing the 3rd - 5th best team in LOI as well. Glentoran haven't been able to compete with the top 2 teams in the LOI, but that is not to say they couldnt compete with the next 3 below them. But that raelly is a seperate debate.