Giggs to retire after Czech game

[elroy]

Hopefully they will give him a great send off by getting a result against the Czechs!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/6703359.stm

[RogerMilla]

too right 4-0 wales bellamy 2 giggs 2 , perfect send off for him

[lionelhutz]

I think its the right time for him to retire internationally - he seems to have to have lost the hunger for wales - see Ireland game at croke park.

Plus he was so bad in the cup final he should almost consider retiring from club football too!!

[Sligo Hornet]

I think its the right time for him to retire internationally - he seems to have to have lost the hunger for wales - see Ireland game at croke park.

Plus he was so bad in the cup final he should almost consider retiring from club football too!!

Don't think in all honesty he's EVER had any hunger for his National team........probably like trying to motivate himself to play in Uniteds Third team!

Still, here's hoping it's a great Send-Off, and not a Sent-Off!:)

[Cymro]

What can you say. Absolute bloody legend. Eve though he didn't always turn up for friendlies when he did play for us he was always top nothc.

Luckily we have Bale coming through the ranks so his loss does not seem as much of a hammerblow as it would have otherwise.

[elroy]

Don't think in all honesty he's EVER had any hunger for his National team........probably like trying to motivate himself to play in Uniteds Third team!

Still, here's hoping it's a great Send-Off, and not a Sent-Off!:)

In fairness I would doubt that, he did turn out for all Wales competitive games when he was injury free. He couldve easily choose England and played in WCs and Euro's etc but he didnt. I particularly felt sorry for Wales the year they narrowly lost out in the playoff to Russia, I think that was without doubt their best chance and they have just gone down hill since. Bit like us since 2002 really but even more dramatic.

[RogerMilla]

yeah at least we have seen a few tournaments, it will be a while before wales see one , good luck to them for the world cup

[KopKiller]

too right 4-0 wales bellamy 2 giggs 2 , perfect send off for him

I wouldnt be confident about the welsh getting anything on saturday, even though the czechs are very overrated at the moment, i fully expect them to beat a diabolical welsh team.

I would say San Marino have a better chance of beating Germany ... remember, 'they are going to be force in the group'

[Stuttgart88]

What can you say. Absolute bloody legend. Eve though he didn't always turn up for friendlies when he did play for us he was always top nothc.

Luckily we have Bale coming through the ranks so his loss does not seem as much of a hammerblow as it would have otherwise.
Jason Koumas is a fine player I think, would walk into our midfield. Is he available or has he got the hump with Toshack?

[DmanDmythDledge]

Jason Koumas is a fine player I think, would walk into our midfield. Is he available or has he got the hump with Toshack?
Agree there. He is expected to start on Saturday. I'd be very surprised if he isn't playing in the Premiership next season.

[Cymro]

Jason Koumas is a fine player I think, would walk into our midfield. Is he available or has he got the hump with Toshack?

He's available and will play against the Czechs, he's wasted on the left though so I hope Toshack doesn't see him as a Giggs replacement.

In the centre he can be a real influence.

[eirebhoy]

Yeah he's an excellent player. If he's playing in a central role you'd probably need 2 players behind him. I definitely think Wales have a chance of getting at least a point. What's the likely team?

[Cymro]

Yeah he's an excellent player. If he's playing in a central role you'd probably need 2 players behind him. I definitely think Wales have a chance of getting at least a point. What's the likely team?

The team is likely to be 5-3-2, but could be 4-4-2 if Gabbidon isn't fit.

We'll likely start with James Collins and Steve Evans as centre backs whatever, and if Gabbidon is passed fit he will join them. Sam Ricketts will play right-back and either David Vaughan or Joe Ledley left-back.

In midfield it will be Giggs, Koumas and Davies, with Bellamy and most probably Earnshaw starting up front.

If we play 4-4-2 expect Carl Fletcher to take Gabbidon's place in the team and slot into centre midfield.

It's obvious that the main weakness of that team is defensively, so the midfielders will have to have very good games if we're to get anything out of this one.

Hopefully the players will at least be motivated by the fact that it's Giggs's last game and we can put in a performance if not the result.

[Noelys Guitar]

If Wales win they are back in the chase for second place as well. So a lot riding on this game. I really believe they can win this one. Koumas is an excellent player and Bellamy is scoring goals.

[youngirish]

Rosicky has just declared himself fit for this match after recovering from an injury and he is just a tad (miles) bit better than Koumas which is another reason I can't see Wales getting anything. Scraping a 0-0 draw at home though is not impossible, they were narrowly beaten away but I'd be pleasantly surprised if that happened based on recent form.

[Jerry The Saint]

64 caps in 16 long years - even Roy Keane did better than that. :eek:

[tetsujin1979]

64 caps in 114 games, played his first away friendly in the last few years.

[RogerMilla]

this is from the guardians "fiver" yesterday

1) During his 16 years as an international footballer, Giggs didn't play a single friendly away from home.

2) He did once play against Brazil on neutral territory, though. At White Hart Lane. (And against a "Basque XI" too, if you're being especially picky.)

3) Having made his debut in 1991, Giggs missed 18 friendlies in a row before deigning to appear in one against Finland in 2000.

4) He has missed 27% of Wales's competitive games and 76% of their friendlies.

5) Retiring from a team who couldn't qualify a minor observation, never mind for a major tournament, so as to concentrate on playing for the English champions wasn't an easy decision: "I have loved playing for my country and I have loved captaining my country," gushed Giggsy. "I think it's the right time to do this. It wasn't an easy decision for me."

6) Since his debut Giggs has played 63 games out of a possible 12,000,004. "The number of games he has played for Wales doesn't proportionally seem to fit," said his manager John Toshack in 2004, before proudly unveiling his theory as to why Dolly Parton sleeps on her back.

7) Due to a series of unfortunate ailments, including 1,908 forms of hamstring knack, a malicious nosehair and a new season of The Apprentice, Giggs has missed glamour mid-season trips for friendlies in Norn Iron 1-0, Estonia, Qatar and Brazil. "You must question who arranged a game in Qatar involving an 18-hour trip with players having such a heavy playing schedule," harrumphed Lord Ferg of the friendly in Qatar, a month after yanking his players out of the FA Cup and herding them on to a plane to Brazil.

8) Giggs has been genuinely injured every time he has missed a game. "Every time I missed a game for Wales it has been because of a genuine injury," he said in 2001, inadvertently swallowing a fly in the process and ruling himself out of the next friendly.

9) Lord Ferg emphatically did not influence any of Giggs's withdrawals.

10) Giggs's frequent absences were in fact the Welsh public's fault, as Lord Ferg revealed in 2000: "The Welsh public have a special player in Ryan Giggs and what they must realise is that he does have a hamstring problem that does need looking after."

11) Every day, when Ryan Giggs wakes up, he thanks the Lord he's Welsh.

[bwagner]

I see a draw at least for our welsh brothers and i wish them all the best

[Wolfie]

If the Welsh can even hold the Czechs to a draw it would be a great result.

Hopefully the Germans put the Slovaks away the following Wednesday as well.

[OwlsFan]

The most hilarious interview of the year yesterday. It was Ryan Giggs retiring from international duties. Said how sorry he was, what a difficult decision it was etc etc. And he kept a straight face. This from a guy that delayed playing his first friendly until he was 29. And was selective about other games he played in.

Chalk up another name on the long list of footballing frauds.

In the words of a friend of mine:

Yeh, he must be exhausted from all those games he missed for Wales.
He made RK look like he was obsessive about turning up for ROI

[NeilMcD]

Come on Owls fan. When Keane and Giggs played for their country they gave it their all. Certain players are not needed for friendlies to be honest.

[Cymro]

If Giggs were actually allowed to play those friendlies he would have done so. It's practically written into his Man Utd contract that he can't travel more than 100 miles for a friendly, it would seem.

[OwlsFan]

Come on Owls fan. When Keane and Giggs played for their country they gave it their all. Certain players are not needed for friendlies to be honest.

What are you saying? Some players are above playing for their countries in friendlies which are only for the "little people". Either you want to play for your country or you don't. Or are people allowed opt out and say "I'll only play when it matters and the second raters can play in the friendlies because I can't be ars*d". ?

Giggs was a joke. Age 29 before he played his first friendly. Then we have the crocodile tears about retiring from playing for Wales. :rolleyes:

[SuperDave]

What are you saying? Some players are above playing for their countries in friendlies which are only for the "little people". Either you want to play for your country or you don't. Or are people allowed opt out and say "I'll only play when it matters and the second raters can play in the friendlies because I can't be ars*d". ?

Giggs was a joke. Age 29 before he played his first friendly. Then we have the crocodile tears about retiring from playing for Wales. :rolleyes:

everyone knows giggs can do it and friendlies enable you to see more about your team. for all his faults, staunton at least experiments in friendlies rather than playing his strongest XI and learning nothing, a la Brian Kerr. I'm glad we played who we did in the US, because now its clear who has a future and who doesn't.

[eirebhoy]

everyone knows giggs can do it and friendlies enable you to see more about your team. for all his faults, staunton at least experiments in friendlies rather than playing his strongest XI and learning nothing, a la Brian Kerr.
...and Marcello Lippi. Kerr used the friendlies well imo.

[billybunter]

seeing how he played against us, I think he made the decision to retire before the game........he made john o shea look good for fux sake!!!

[geysir]

seeing how he played against us, I think he made the decision to retire before the game........he made john o shea look good for fux sake!!!
:)
I guess he didn't want that as his swansong.


It's practically written into his Man Utd contract that he can't travel more than 100 miles for a friendly, it would seem.
Except when Brazil came to town. :)

[Cymro]

Except when Brazil came to town. :)

He only had to take a trip down to London for that one.

I genuinely believe he'd have played more games for us if he hadn't been so successful and important at club level. But we'll never know.

[shakermaker1982]

Giggs and Keano were prone to injuries at the best of times hence the need to watch how many games a season they played. Friendlies should be used to blood in youngsters once you have a good idea of your preferred team.

Giggs was (still is) a great player and I hope he does the business for us Saturday.

[SuperDave]

He only had to take a trip down to London for that one.

I genuinely believe he'd have played more games for us if he hadn't been so successful and important at club level. But we'll never know.

or if wales had been more successful at international level... it was simple prioritisation... maybe he looked at wales and thought "nah, ****e, i'll never qualify with these clowns, why bother unless i have to." look at it, he only starting playing friendlies when they started to look semi-competitive again and nearly qualified for a couple of things. now whether wales might have been more successful if he had been more 'committed' (and i think he was committed to wales, but some buy the theory he wasn't), we'll never know, it may have been a horrible vicious circle that not bothering leads to worse results leads to less bothering etc etc etc, but i doubt it.

if your theory is right, then players like him at worse clubs would play more games... like jason koumas, who only has 22 caps at the age of 27. now i know he has had injury troubles and is fairly injury prone (especially if his continued and disastrous run of injuries he got in my west brom game of football manager is anything to go by. promoted, relegated, promoted, relegated, and in each premiership season he missed four fu*king months with a torn hamstring), but giggs had his worries too earlier in his career when he kept doing his hamstring and it affected his united games too, so its hard to say. that said, reading roy keane's autobiography, he recalled the days when players turned up for international duty with minor knocks and played through them, and maybe that is the problem giggs had in terms of commitment. i think its probably a bit of both in fairness.

[Cymro]

Koumas is actually a legitamate case of maybe an attitude problem, but he does seem fully committed to us since Toshack took over. He is actually playing superbly for us lately and is probably our best player, even better than Bellamy and Giggs.

As for your point about Giggs, he had to try hard to balance his club career with his international one. It's all well and good to say he wasn't committed to us but I think he was just being sensible. If say he'd got injured in a friendly against a small international side he could potentially have missed out on winning major European trophies and Premiership medals.

If he'd been playing for a team with no hope of achieving those things, he'd probably have turned up for all our games. As it was he was there for the ones that really counted and I respect that he couldn't always be there for the ones that maybe weren't so important.

[Sligo Hornet]

When all is said and done, Giggsy has been and still is a classy player.His past attendance record is exactly that...past!

I for one hope he has the game of his International life against the Czechs, playing alongside his Country's new inspirational,law abiding, role-model of a Captain....;)

[OwlsFan]

Firstly, it wasn't the case of the manager experimenting. It was Giggs crying off with hamstrings, calf injuries, knee ligaments, sore testicl*s etc etc. I have no problem with a manager experimenting in friendlies but the squad (the whole squad) should get together for a whole host of reasons which are obvious.

Secondly, how many English players feigned injuries on a constant basis to get out of playing for their country? Very seldom and I include the Man U players here.

International football is under threat and if the big clubs had their way it would be scrapped. I have no time for the pick and choose international players.

[youngirish]

International football is under threat and if the big clubs had their way it would be scrapped. I have no time for the pick and choose international players.
I agree and Giggs was one of the worst of the bunch in this respect. People seem to cloud the lines between his ability (which he undoubtedly showed on some of the occasions when he did represent his nation) and his enthusiasm to play. A similar situation exists with Keane IMO among the Irish fans as indeed when he did play he was always one of the best players on the pitch due to his unquestionable ability and his will to win but he would more often than not be unavailable for friendlies when it didn't suit.

Considering the relatively few international games per season friendlies IMO are an often overlooked but excellent opportunity to give your senior players the chance to familiarise themselves with the team and the tactics. Instead of this we are usually treated to a team of inexpierenced youngsters many of which will play little, if any part in our upcoming competitve fixtures. When you look at club football it's often claimed that new players can take a dozen or more games before they 'gel' with the rest of the team. If you look at the current team Ireland, McShane, McGeady and Kevin Doyle have only a handful of caps between them and I've no doubt a few friendlies with the senior players would have been extremely beneificial for them and the rest of the team.

It sums up the whole game these days that many players would rather keep themselves fit and play for their clubs than turn out for their country in the hope that they can negotiate even more lucrative pay deals for themselves the next time their contracts are up.

The amount of withdrawals for Stan's summer tour of the US was an absolute disgrace. It shows how little regard many of our senior players (and even some of the not so senior ones) have for the national team when they won't take a few days out from their 2 months summer holidays to represent their country. It's sickening and there's no excuse.

[Stuttgart88]

I'd love to bring a large banner to our home games:

"Representing your country is an honour, not a chore.

You know who you are."

[geysir]

I don't know the ins and outs of the Ryan Giggs no shows but he appears to be an extreme case.
Times have changed.
In the past friendlies had a profile here when there was féck all else to aim for. I have done a reverse turn with all the furore about friendlies under Kerr, the achievements of winning them meant little. The main purpose of a friendly is to prepare a squad, in particular new players, for the serious games.
There has to be some give and take. Like when Souness was justifiably raging that Duff, just about match fit, played nearly 90 mins of some friendly, turning it on against some 3rd rate full back.

[paul_oshea]

stutts i know well what ye mean if we could get it to take up one whole goal end and you stand oneside, ill stand the other and a few in the middle!!! :D

just look at the reaching for glory thing and you see the contrast in how much rugby players love playing for their country, something that has more than a little to do with how little they get paid compared to their soccer counterparts.

[eirebhoy]

I don't know the ins and outs of the Ryan Giggs no shows but he appears to be an extreme case.
Times have changed.
In the past friendlies had a profile here when there was féck all else to aim for. I have done a reverse turn with all the furore about friendlies under Kerr, the achievements of winning them meant little.
I really don't see the problem with the way Kerr used the friendlies. We played our strongest team with maybe 1 or 2 players added to the mix for each friendly. I think it's more important to use the friendlies for the likes of Keane and Doyle to gain and understanding together. The defensive unit is even more important. Also a player may look great playing in a 2nd string team but when he plays with the big boys he can look out of his depth.

Kerr mainly stuck with the same squad players for the 1 campaign, like you'd do at underage level. When he took over he had only 1 friendly to try things out so he decided to mainly stick with McCarthy's tried and trusted. That meant Gary Breen at centre half, Ian Harte at left back, Kilbane left wing, 2 of Holland/Kinsella/Carsley/Healy for the rest of the midfield, Duff up front half the time...

That all then changed in the friendlies between the 2-0 defeat to Switzerland and the world cup campaign. O'Brien and Cunningham had formed a very good partnership. O'Shea was the new left back. Duff was back to his best position on the left wing. Morrison and Keane had formed a decent partnership. Kilbane's most influential role was found and he was a regular as the work horse in central midfield, winning Ireland player of the year. Andy Reid became a regular...

If any young player deserved a place in the team they would have got the chance in a friendly. He'd never give a player their debut in a competitive. Andy Reid, Liam Miller, Stephen Elliott, Alan Quinn, Aiden McGeady and Alan Lee was the best of the quality coming through in Kerr's time in charge. Kevin Doyle began to make a name for himself at the end of Kerr's reign and he was brought into the squad.

As I said, Lippi was the same with Italy. He'd always play his strongest squad in friendlies and it worked wonders, he won me over a grand. :D

Kerr's problem with Richard Dunne is another matter but with the partnership O'Brien and Cunningham it wasn't really important.

[paul_oshea]

He'd never give a player their debut in a competitive.

ya because he was too cautious, and in that sentence you have summed up his failure. This cautiosness cost us qualification. you have spelt it out there yourself eirebhoy!!

If Lippi won ye grand, how much did kerr lose ye ;)

[eirebhoy]

His failure was the lack of the skills that makes Martin O'Neill such a great manager imo. No Martin O'Neill team would have looked so flat as the Ireland team in Kerr's last game. I don't think he was overly cautious. As the players said they weren't under instructions to sit back after scoring. It's just instinct to protect a lead and it's the managers job to try and get them over that fear. England were the same under Eriksson and he didn't take friendlies too serious.

Failing to win at home to Israel was a huge kick in the teeth. The players looked determined to take the game to Israel. They deserved to win by 4 or 5 goals. After that they had a big psychological barrier to overcome after losing so many leads and they were a nervous wreck in Cyprus.

[paul_oshea]

i thought you didnt rate Martin O'neill, or was it martin o'neill the coach you didnt rate? cos those terms are generally used in 1 now.

[geysir]

I gathered the point of the thread was about Giggs and then him not turning up for friendlies, if it was an insult to the soccer nation etc. Not about Kerr.
Simply put, I think we can discriminate between competitive and friendly international games re their importance and relevence. There is no way Duff should have played more than half a game, the Manager (and Fans) got carried away that day. That's the furore I was referring to. The manager took a huge risk on our best player just against a team in a friendly who were useless.
We can also discriminate between the reasons for players like Robbie Keane not going to the USA and Ronnie O Brien turning down an invite.

[geysir]

That was obvious TP, most threads that have been dormant for days are going nowhere, unless somebody has something new to write. Then with a whiff of the surreal you come along after a few days and write that it is going nowhere :)

[Closed Account]

This thread is going nowhere.

[OwlsFan]

This thread is going nowhere.

What do you expect from a thread about Giggs retiring after the game against the Czechs and the game is now over :rolleyes:

[Stuttgart88]

I'd love to bring a large banner to our home games:

"Representing your country is an honour, not a chore.

You know who you are."
It seems Stuart Pearse agrees and he put it really well too. "When your country comes calling...".

[geysir]

After all his name is Pearse.

[paul_oshea]

this thread is going nowhere.....

[youngirish]

this thread is going nowhere.....

Yeah let's see if we can keep it alive so to speak until the end of the qualifiers.