View Full Version : Eircom League Players for Ireland
finnpark
24/05/2007, 7:16 PM
Now for an original thread...:D
1. Darrly Murphy one of Sunderland's best players in premiership and in 2nd division this year!
2. Stephen Ward struggled at Bohs , scored 1 goal all season went to top 6 size in championship, Wolves, walks straight into team despite being not fit and scores a lump of goals and gets player of the month in his first month.
3. George O'Calaghan, Cork City reserves, walks straight into Ipswich team. Regular with several premiership teams reported to be interested.
4. Shane Long, Cork City reserves into Reading premiership, should make the breakthrough this year.
5. Kevin Doyle, as one LOI pro said to me, "He wasnt nothing special playing against us". Says it all really.
6. Colin Hawkins walks straight into Coventry team and gets MOTM in 1st game despite being not fit.
7. Alan Bennet, MOTM displays by Reading, expected to make breakthorugh this season after a few months there.
8. Sheff Wed goalkeeper, not much good at Pats, a regular with them.
I could go on but its getting late...Jonathan Douglas, Cardiff City palyers, Scotland etc etc.
The LOI is becoming a hotbed for producing top quality players capable of playing at International Level. The LOI players are outperforming the likes of Duff and Keane in the premiership.
Has the time come for a fully home based International team?
The LOI is the 20th best league in Europe out of over 50 leagues. Our International team is nowhere near that I believe.
I think LOI players are finally good enough to play at International level.
eirebhoy
24/05/2007, 7:35 PM
2. Stephen Ward struggled at Bohs , scored 1 goal all season went to top 6 size in championship, Wolves, walks straight into team despite being not fit and scores a lump of goals and gets player of the month in his first month.
How often was he played up front though? I saw him play for the U21s a couple of times and he was the best player on the pitch.
3. George O'Calaghan, Cork City reserves, walks straight into Ipswich team. Regular with several premiership teams reported to be interested.
"Cork reserves" - Probably rated as their best player before he was dropped for non-football reasons. ;)
5. Kevin Doyle, as one LOI pro said to me, "He wasnt nothing special playing against us". Says it all really.
And Ledley King reckons he was one of the toughest opponents he has ever come up against. Either he has improved a lot, he wasn't playing up front against the LOI pro or the guy is talking rubbish. :) In the few months Doyle played up front for Cork before joining Reading he was top of the goalscoring charts by far.
8. Sheff Wed goalkeeper, not much good at Pats, a regular with them.
Released after 10 games in 2 seasons.
It's a good thread but post facts. "Cork city reserves into the premiership" - Sounds great doesn't it. :) Leaving out the word "reserves" after Reading for Bennett makes it look better too.
cavan_fan
24/05/2007, 7:50 PM
The LOI players are outperforming the likes of Duff and Keane in the premiership.
Has the time come for a fully home based International team?
The LOI is the 20th best league in Europe out of over 50 leagues. Our International team is nowhere near that I believe.
I think LOI players are finally good enough to play at International level.
Arguably one LOI player, Doyle, is outperforming these players.
If we're saying play an all LOI team because it's the number 20 league in Europe then the English Premiership is the Number 1 League
Please post facts, as has been said before it would be good to see 2/3 home based players in the squad. an all home based team is never going to happen
2. Stephen Ward struggled at Bohs , scored 1 goal all season went to top 6 size in championship, Wolves, walks straight into team despite being not fit and scores a lump of goals and gets player of the month in his first month.
I addressed that in another thread. Bohemians had a bad season last year, therefore is it at all surprising he scored few goals there? I'm sure he must have been one of Bohemians' best performers, or else the whole Bohemians team would have been signed up.
3. George O'Calaghan, Cork City reserves, walks straight into Ipswich team. Regular with several premiership teams reported to be interested.
He's not a regular with Ipswich. Got sent off on his debut and is making sub appearences last I heard.
4. Shane Long, Cork City reserves into Reading premiership, should make the breakthrough this year.
I've heard rumours he's off to Cardiff as part of a deal for Michael Chopra-only rumours though. He hasn't started that many games for Reading.
5. Kevin Doyle, as one LOI pro said to me, "He wasnt nothing special playing against us". Says it all really.
So this one opinion that you claim some League of Ireland player gave you- (could be biased as far as I know)-which is completely unverifiable-is proof solid that the League of Ireland is better than the Premiership? :rolleyes:
7. Alan Bennet,
Hardly played for Reading.
8. Sheff Wed goalkeeper, not much good at Pats, a regular with them.
Which Sheff Wed goalie was this? If you can't name the player you're referring to, it doesn't really help your argument.
Cardiff City palyers
Ah yes, Cardiff City players. So you think that Jason Byrne who has made one sub appearance and Davd Forde who's only in the team because Neil Alexander ****ed off Dave Jones should be replacing Shay Given and Robbie Keane in the ROI line-up?
The LOI is becoming a hotbed for producing top quality players capable of playing at International Level. The LOI players are outperforming the likes of Duff and Keane in the premiership.
Apart from Doyle, no other League of Ireland player has even made an impact in the Premiership in yonks-let alone outperformed Robbie Keane, who has had a very good season for Spurs.
Duff has been crocked for much of it.
Has the time come for a fully home based International team?
Yes. If you do that, Wales might just get a win against a good team (well a team with a reasonable reputation anyway, since this hypothetical team would not be as good as the current Irish side) in this qualifying group. So yes, I would be in favour of that. However, if you want to actually aim for the best Ireland team you can put out, ignoring players like Given, Keane, Duff, Doyle, and Finnan, even John O'bloody Shea, would be suicide.
The LOI is the 20th best league in Europe out of over 50 leagues. Our International team is nowhere near that I believe.
Last year it was. Last year. And thanks largely to the exploits of Derry, who by their own admission are not as good this year. If you look at the proper UEFA club rankings which are calculated over the course of 5 years, the League of Ireland is 40th out of 50.
I think LOI players are finally good enough to play at International level.
One or two may be-that's for your boss to decide. Staunton obviously has no problem selecting players from your national league, so you should let him judge. As bad as you think his results have been, he still knows a lot more about football than you, me or anyone else here.
On the other hand, if you're suggesting that your entire squad should come from the League of Ireland, I doubt you'll get much support for that. It's a frankly ridiculous opinion, as you have plenty of players playing regularly and playing well in the Premiership, which is obviously a better league.
Just for the record-I have no particular axe to grind here. I just find finnpark's suggestions laughable.
The Legend
24/05/2007, 8:18 PM
hmnn finally someone that would be worse at managing ireland than stan!
I agree with your overall sentiment to an extent but you are selective in the facts.
Doyle looks better every game i see him. Only 4 players scored more Premiership goals & he was injured for 2-3 months.
Its clear the best LOI players can easily play for top Championship sides now.
LOL @ using Adamson (who I think was excellent for us for a season, thena bit rubbish, and went to be Wednesday's reserve keeper)
Its clear the best LOI players can easily play for top Championship sides now.
Could they Pete? Byrne and Forde? Not convinced myself. I know I'm not an expert on your league but you don't have to be an expert to deduce that neither of those two have set the Championship alight. Cardiff fans don't seem to be too impressed and they are looking for new players in those positions in the summer.
My opinion (for all it's worth) is that some will, in a team that's playing well, adapt very well to the Championship, eg Doyle at Reading and Ward at Wolves. Others however like Byrne and Forde who maybe aren't at top sides might struggle with the tempo and physicality, particularly as the bottom Championship sides are hardly renowned for playing great passing football.
Take O'Callaghan-he has proven to be a competent Championship player but he certainly isn't setting the world alight as he was in Ireland.
By the way was your post directed at me or finnpark? Couldn't tell.
Post not directed at anyone but I think there are many eL players who can play & earn a living in the Championship. I would depend which position they play in to access Ireland changes.
Remember there are lots of players in the regular Ireland squad who do not set the Championship alight.
Henderson, Colgan, Douglas play for lower Championship sides or sit on the bench. Stokes was not spectacular at Sunderland...
Post not directed at anyone but I think there are many eL players who can play & earn a living in the Championship. I would depend which position they play in to access Ireland changes.
Remember there are lots of players in the regular Ireland squad who do not set the Championship alight.
Henderson, Colgan, Douglas play for lower Championship sides or sit on the bench. Stokes was not spectacular at Sunderland...
Well, given that I was responding to the part of your post that said the top players could easily play at top Championship clubs, I didn't factor in the lower Championship players in the Ireland squad, since I was responding to it as a purely incidental remark (ie on its own merits and not as part of the original discussion)
So in that way I could maybe see the logic of having LOI players in the squad. But only if they were actually better than the options playing in the Championship/SPL etc.
It's fair to say the LOI is not as good overall as either the Championship or the SPL regardless of whether a minority of teams would survive at that level, which is debateable.
In any case-they shouldn't be taking the places of players like Given and Keane, we can all agree on that!
Soper
25/05/2007, 12:01 AM
How many bleeding times...Byrne went to Cardiff having played a full season, still looked good in apearences he made, and will be good for them next season.
kingdom hoop
25/05/2007, 12:29 AM
How many bleeding times...
Finally! A turnip that bleeds!
Cymro
25/05/2007, 12:31 PM
How many bleeding times...Byrne went to Cardiff having played a full season, still looked good in apearences he made, and will be good for them next season.
He was also anonymous against the Welsh Premier champions.
We will see how Byrne does next season. You can hardly call him a success. At best, he's a case of the jury still being out.
Soper
25/05/2007, 12:37 PM
It's hard for a striker to make an impression when his midfield was unable to provide any good passes in that game. As you'd expect from a midfield of kids and sick noters, playing against a team that had a point to prove.
It's hard for a striker to make an impression when his midfield was unable to provide any good passes in that game. As you'd expect from a midfield of kids and sick noters, playing against a team that had a point to prove.
The Cardiff side contained at least three players with Premiership experience that I know-Walton, Willo Flood and Kerrea Gilbert.
Darcy Blake is breaking into the Cardiff first team too, and I thought he was probably the best Cardiff player that night.
Now I would never judge a player on one game but you have to say if Byrne was a player of top Championship quality, he'd be able to make his own chances against a side that is probably bottom half of League Two or top half of Conference, no matter how much of a point they had to prove.
Instead he had one chance and blasted over.
paul_oshea
25/05/2007, 1:18 PM
5. Kevin Doyle, as one LOI pro said to me, "He wasnt nothing special playing against us". Says it all really.
ya it does really, doesn't it. he was miles ahead of the rest.
If only football was as simple as that
But it is not.
youngirish
25/05/2007, 1:39 PM
Now for an original thread...:D
1. Darrly Murphy one of Sunderland's best players in premiership and in 2nd division this year!
2. Stephen Ward struggled at Bohs , scored 1 goal all season went to top 6 size in championship, Wolves, walks straight into team despite being not fit and scores a lump of goals and gets player of the month in his first month.
3. George O'Calaghan, Cork City reserves, walks straight into Ipswich team. Regular with several premiership teams reported to be interested.
4. Shane Long, Cork City reserves into Reading premiership, should make the breakthrough this year.
5. Kevin Doyle, as one LOI pro said to me, "He wasnt nothing special playing against us". Says it all really.
6. Colin Hawkins walks straight into Coventry team and gets MOTM in 1st game despite being not fit.
7. Alan Bennet, MOTM displays by Reading, expected to make breakthorugh this season after a few months there.
8. Sheff Wed goalkeeper, not much good at Pats, a regular with them.
I could go on but its getting late...Jonathan Douglas, Cardiff City palyers, Scotland etc etc.
The LOI is becoming a hotbed for producing top quality players capable of playing at International Level. The LOI players are outperforming the likes of Duff and Keane in the premiership.
Has the time come for a fully home based International team?
The LOI is the 20th best league in Europe out of over 50 leagues. Our International team is nowhere near that I believe.
I think LOI players are finally good enough to play at International level.
Finnpark what biased, ignoring the facts rubbish.
1. Daryl Murphy - nowhere near Sunderland's best player this season (he wasn't even always a regular) and didn't hardly play at all last season in the Premiership.
2. Stephen Ward - Promising start for his first 4-5 games then dropped and hardly gets a look in now.
3. George O'Callaghan - Cork's best player, bit part player for Ipswich, a mid table Championship team.
4. Shane Long - Cork reserves 2 years ago didn't get a game for reading until about 6 months later and then only had a handful of appearances as a sub until fairly recently. Players improve with age.
5. Kevin Doyle - See Shane Long about younger players improving. Doyle is a far better player now than even a year ago when he was playing in the Championship. Any goon can see that.
6. Colin Hawkins - Coventry are sh*t.
7. Alan Bennet - Not a sniff of a game at Reading yet.
8. Sheffield Wednesday goalkeeper - Who are you talking about?
9. Jason Byrne - Brilliant, they are trying to get rid of him already.
As for your claims at the end. More bile on both counts. Name 20 teams in Europe that are better than us?
They're not trying to get rid of Jason Byrne. Check your facts.
Ward hardly gets a look in now because the season is finished, it would be hard for him to play when there are no matches
tetsujin1979
25/05/2007, 2:06 PM
Ward hardly gets a look in now because the season is finished, it would be hard for him to play when there are no matches
Here's a summary of Ward's season: http://www.geocities.com/tetsujin1979/StephenWard.html
He hasn't started since the 7th April, hasn't completed 90 minutes since the 11th March, and hasn't scored since the 20th February
cavan_fan
25/05/2007, 2:25 PM
The truth is that the eL has produced one undoubted successful export over the last few years. There are a few promising ones and a few holding their own but only Doyle is a top player. A good comparison is Andy Keogh who was a good League 1 player (though not the best). He has fitted in well at Wolves. Compare this to his eL equivalents (Byrne and Ward???) who are finding it harder to fit in. Now this may all be about settling in and different close seasons but when people scorn League 1 players as Ireland prospects Keogh is a good example. It might even be worth eL players looking to move into L1 (big fish in small pond likel Hoolahan) rather than the Championship where they may no get a prolonged chance?
Ceirtlis
25/05/2007, 2:30 PM
Now for an original thread...:D
1. Darrly Murphy one of Sunderland's best players in premiership and in 2nd division this year!
2. Stephen Ward struggled at Bohs , scored 1 goal all season went to top 6 size in championship, Wolves, walks straight into team despite being not fit and scores a lump of goals and gets player of the month in his first month.
3. George O'Calaghan, Cork City reserves, walks straight into Ipswich team. Regular with several premiership teams reported to be interested.
4. Shane Long, Cork City reserves into Reading premiership, should make the breakthrough this year.
5. Kevin Doyle, as one LOI pro said to me, "He wasnt nothing special playing against us". Says it all really.
6. Colin Hawkins walks straight into Coventry team and gets MOTM in 1st game despite being not fit.
7. Alan Bennet, MOTM displays by Reading, expected to make breakthorugh this season after a few months there.
8. Sheff Wed goalkeeper, not much good at Pats, a regular with them.
I could go on but its getting late...Jonathan Douglas, Cardiff City palyers, Scotland etc etc.
The LOI is becoming a hotbed for producing top quality players capable of playing at International Level. The LOI players are outperforming the likes of Duff and Keane in the premiership.
Has the time come for a fully home based International team?
The LOI is the 20th best league in Europe out of over 50 leagues. Our International team is nowhere near that I believe.
I think LOI players are finally good enough to play at International level.
Sweet jesus, you are either taking the **** or you dont know what your talking about.
Sam_Heggy
26/05/2007, 6:44 PM
Now for an original thread...:D
Has the time come for a fully home based International team?
The LOI is the 20th best league in Europe out of over 50 leagues. Our International team is nowhere near that I believe.
I think LOI players are finally good enough to play at International level.
I think we could have a LOI "B" International team but to suggest that a fully home-based Ireland team is madness.
Would u drop, Finnan, Given, McShane, Doyle, Keane, or for that matter most of the panel, for an all LOI team?
If Stan done that I bet u'd be 1st on here to slate him bud.
Kildare Lad
26/05/2007, 10:46 PM
Well if you where to make an Irish team out of LOI players alone, what would it be?
finnpark
27/05/2007, 1:05 PM
I think we could have a LOI "B" International team but to suggest that a fully home-based Ireland team is madness.
Would u drop, Finnan, Given, McShane, Doyle, Keane, or for that matter most of the panel, for an all LOI team?
If Stan done that I bet u'd be 1st on here to slate him bud.
The truth be told many of those players not trying/not performing. Doyle, Finnan, Given, Hunt, McGeady, Dunne try hard and are above Eircom League standard. The rest are not although Stokes , Long etc should improve if they keep their heads down. I definetly think the B team should be Eircom League players only. My team, on present form bar injuries would be:
-------------------------------- Ryan (St Pats)
Heary (Bohs) -----Gavin (Drogs) ----Gartland (Drogs)-----Tracey (Galway)
O'Donovan (Cork) ----- Byrne (Drogs) ----- Gamble (cork) ---- O'Brien (Galway) or Brennan (Derry)
------------- Zayed (Drogs) ----------- Farren (Derry) ---------------
SUBS:
Murphy (Bohs) Glk
Ferguson (Shamrock)
Maguire (Stpats)
Webb (Drogs)
Shelley (Drogs)
Molloy (Derry)
Kirby (St Pats)
Brennan or O'Brien
Robinson (Drogs)
O'Neill (St Pats)
Kildare Lad
27/05/2007, 4:11 PM
The only player in that team that I think would even come close to having a chance of starting for Ireland would be O'Donovan. Other players may make the squad but not the XI IMO.
Im not saying that the LOI isnt good or anything, but most players are nowhere near good enough to be starting for Ireland.
And by the way, did you forget about Keith Fahey in that team or did you just not put him in it?
pineapple stu
27/05/2007, 4:32 PM
I definetly think the B team should be Eircom League players only. My team, on present form bar injuries would be:
-------------------------------- Ryan (St Pats)
Heary (Bohs) -----Gavin (Drogs) ----Gartland (Drogs)-----Tracey (Galway)
O'Donovan (Cork) ----- Byrne (Drogs) ----- Gamble (cork) ---- O'Brien (Galway) or Brennan (Derry)
------------- Zayed (Drogs) ----------- Farren (Derry) ---------------
SUBS:
Murphy (Bohs) Glk
Ferguson (Shamrock)
Maguire (Stpats)
Webb (Drogs)
Shelley (Drogs)
Molloy (Derry)
Kirby (St Pats)
Brennan or O'Brien
Robinson (Drogs)
O'Neill (St Pats)
So you've two players from Galway, second bottom in the league, but one player from the team seven points clear in the table? You've two forwards selected on the "form" of five goals all season while leaving out three players who've scored more than that?
At what stage do you just admit you're winding everyone up?
Im not saying that the LOI isnt good or anything, but most players are nowhere near good enough to be starting for Ireland.
No LOI is good enough to start a competitive International.
Only players proven at the top of the league or/and with decent european experience could even be considered for the squad.
cheifo
27/05/2007, 9:43 PM
Sean Ryan writes in todays Sindo about this issue and ties it in with Lapiras inclusion in an article titled "Lapira cap of convenience a kick in the teeth for league". He also quotes from a strongly written letter he recieved from Pat Devlin who sayes 'I am just writing to you to express my disgust at the selection of an American college player to play for my Country....and to think someone gets capped who happens to live in the states is a disgrace when the league of Ireland is full of good players.Steve Staunton should be ashamed of himself"
Sean Ryan continues "For players like Devlin and O Donavon Lapiras selection
was a kick in the teeth they didnt deserve.It also made nonsense of Stauntons original excuse for excluding the Corkman when he claimed he already had too many strikers in the squad...........And Staunton has made aone more blunder."
Strong words indeed, if this has been covered somewhere else please delete.
ColinR
27/05/2007, 10:05 PM
frank devlin - not pat!!
cheifo
27/05/2007, 10:14 PM
frank devlin - not pat!!
Whoops, apologies Frank it is.
Soper
27/05/2007, 10:17 PM
Haha.
I was worried for a second
pointless thread really. And selective on Facts!
However, Quite a few EL players could make the step up, and unfortunately i fear another player drain in the summer to the UK :(
finnpark
29/05/2007, 10:22 AM
So you've two players from Galway, second bottom in the league, but one player from the team seven points clear in the table? You've two forwards selected on the "form" of five goals all season while leaving out three players who've scored more than that?
At what stage do you just admit you're winding everyone up?
The left full position is weak, the lad his only 18 but has shown himself to have great potential. O'Brien is an excellent player. Glaway's performances to date are down to their defensive minds and lack of fire power up front.
St Pats are decent but their best players clash with the best players in the league in their relevant positions. For example I don't think Maguire is better than Jason GAVIN OR gRAHAM gARTLAND FROM WHAT Ive seen. Ndo would be included but hes not Irish. Pats have a good system of playing but that is about it. One player that could be included is JP Kelly.
BohsPartisan
29/05/2007, 10:50 AM
No LOI is good enough to start a competitive International.
Don't agree with that. If there is a position where there is no premiership first team regular and there is an EL first team regular for one of the top sides available and based upon which player it was, the EL player should play.
Could you not foresee any circumstance where an EL player should get a game. If you think for example O Donovan is good enough to play at the top level in England, shouldn't he be considered?
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