Rte 1 @ 7

[TheSeagullsNest]

tonight will show a behind the scenes programme about Bray Wanderers, should be good viewing hopefully.

[James]

yeah forgot to mention that
Leargas - normally well produced programmes
think they focusing on yer man Zyiad (sp)

well worth checking out

[TheSeagullsNest]

Almost positive there going to feature him, we were at an u21 match (vs. Kildare) and Jimmy McGee (he looks about 200 now !!!!) was interviewing him before he went off with the Irish to the 3 team tournament in the UAE.

[EireBadBoy]

Good Programme, just goes to show some of the hard work that goes on behind the scenes at an EL Club.

Further makes me wonder, having watched that, WHY people don't like Pat Devlin. He is a genuine Football man and deserves a lot of credit.

[SÓC]

It was a great show, Leargas really put the english speaking Irish media to shame with what they do on a tiny budget.

Good move out of Bray to allow them in, off the pitch they seem to have alot of things right, sending the high profile players, Flood, Byrne and Charles off to the local gaelscoil to get support etc.

[EireBadBoy]

Yeah! Even worse Charles thought he had to go the whole way to Waterford to get support and decided to stay there :)

[Macy]

Originally posted by EireBadBoy
Further makes me wonder, having watched that, WHY people don't like Pat Devlin. He is a genuine Football man and deserves a lot of credit.
Because he has an obvious conflict of interest - how can you be managing a eL club, and one would hope wanting the league to progress, whilst at the same time scouting for English clubs... Quite simple really...

[TheSeagullsNest]

level he will move over to england no matter what. At the end of the day money talks and we cant and never will be able to compete with the english. Even if he does send a young lad over and things dont work out for him when he comes back and if he's good enough to play for an EL club he will be a much better player than if he had of stayed here playing ofr a local side or in some reserves, which benefits the league

[eoinh]

he was for wimbledon coming to dublin which in my eyes deserves a fate worse than death.

as for young players going over to england;- the way its structured no-one irish benefits. the clubs dont, the players themselves dont and the fans dont. plus we dont get proper financial compensation for the players that do go over. its a type of economic colonialism and pat devlin is one of the main people keeping that system going.
we need a proper professional league with players going for millions not for a pair of boots and two season tickets to watford or wherever. only are best players should (if the must) go and only to premiership clubb. not to carlisle, brentford or doncaster etc.
imagine if we were sending over half-educated young fellas to work in the coal mines in england because the best of them would get rich!
there would be an outcry here. but because its football no one raises an eyebrow

[TheSeagullsNest]

have to agree to Dissagtee on that point so :)
Because personally most young lads that go over to england will either be to a premier or 1st division side, A far better standard than what we have over hear (unfortnaute but true :mad: ).

My point was that if a 16 year old has the chance to play with Bray Wanderers Youths/Reserves for 3 years or has the chance to play for, lets say Wolves (?) he will become a much better player at Wolves than he would at Bray - the training, diet, professionalism etc..... This is when players learn most of the skills etc......

9 times out of 10 the lads are not good enough to make it through to the 1st team and they return home, a lot of the times to the club they were sold on from. This means that the club has earned a small amount of money from his orignal transfer, the player has gained invaluable experience making him a much better player, therefor making the league better place to play.

[eoinh]

to be honest its attitutudes like that which keeps the whole league down. get the irish times on monday. they have a list of where every player in england and scotland plays. most play with second and third division teams.
the norwegians used to think like us but started to put their own league first - result norwegian clubs started to qualify for the champions league and started to do well in the uefa cup.
the same is true for other small countries like israel and croatia.
we coould be like them. denmark borders germany but they wouldnt dream of exporting what are virtually children abroad.

[Macy]

Originally posted by TheSeagullsNest
Because personally most young lads that go over to england will either be to a premier or 1st division side, A far better standard than what we have over hear (unfortnaute but true).

Irish Lads go over to all clubs over in England, from the 3rd Division up, and how many actually make it in percentage terms? Very few I'd imagine...


Originally posted by TheSeagullsNest
My point was that if a 16 year old has the chance to play with Bray Wanderers Youths/Reserves for 3 years or has the chance to play for, lets say Wolves (?) he will become a much better player at Wolves than he would at Bray - the training, diet, professionalism etc..... This is when players learn most of the skills etc......
Don't think too many will disagree that they will have better training etc, (and I think most people would be in favour of regional training centres to conteract this) however the fact remains that if he was tied to a contract with Bray (or whoever) the english clubs would have to compensate the Irish club for the player... More money into Irish clubs, therefore more money to improve the very reasons that you outline....


Originally posted by TheSeagullsNest
9 times out of 10 the lads are not good enough to make it through to the 1st team and they return home, a lot of the times to the club they were sold on from.
I'd say 9 times out of 10 the returning players don't return to play football over here. They come back disillusioned with their dreams in tatters with no interest in playing football again..... How many return, and how many actually come back to play in the eL? Not too many, but it is improving with the REAP project...


Originally posted by TheSeagullsNest
This means that the club has earned a small amount of money from his orignal transfer, the player has gained invaluable experience making him a much better player, therefor making the league better place to play.
eL clubs generally get nothing for young players going over - as people like Devlin send them over before they are tied to a club in the eL. I'd accept that this is also the clubs problem for not having proper youth structures, but they do have to compete with the traditional nursery clubs like home farm etc.

[TheSeagullsNest]

down is the lack of money and people who dont think before they do or say stuff - simple as that !

Are you seriously going to tell me that the likes of Robbie Keane, Duffer, Carr, Roy Keane etc..... should all be playing the the EL ? Who would pay there wages ? The government and the FAI have a lot to answer for, a total lack of respect and funding has us the state were in at the moment. Theres no one more than me would love to see a fully professional league with 25/30 thousand seaters stadia, big money transfers and big names wanting to play in our league but do think that will ever happen ?

[eoinh]

Originally posted by TheSeagullsNest


Are you seriously going to tell me that the likes of Robbie Keane, Duffer, Carr, Roy Keane etc..... should all be playing the the EL ?

no but what i am saying in Denmark the following would have happened.

Roy Keane at the age of 22 has left for €2.5million from Brondby to Bayern Munich. Brondby have bought with the money Ghanas latest scoring sensation Asoto kotoko from Wisla Krakow. With the remaining money Brondby have promised to invest in youth facilities and improving the stadium even more for their supporters.
Thats called a proper way to do things.

[TheSeagullsNest]

i could'nt agree more. But that will never happen in this country due to the lack of support we get from the government, FAI and the general public. Money makes money and the EL has no money. On average we get attendences of say 1000 per game (???) how is a club supposed to make a real go of it with this kind of income

[Macy]

Originally posted by TheSeagullsNest
down is the lack of money and people who dont think before they do or say stuff - simple as that !

Are you seriously going to tell me that the likes of Robbie Keane, Duffer, Carr, Roy Keane etc..... should all be playing the the EL ? Who would pay there wages ? The government and the FAI have a lot to answer for, a total lack of respect and funding has us the state were in at the moment.
It's not necessarily a case of keeping players of that calibre in the league, it's about our league getting adequatley compensated for the loss of players of that standard.... If an eL club had Robbie Keane on it's books when he was a 15 year old - sold him to wolves (transfer fee money in), insisted on sell on clauses for his next and any subsequent transfers and appearance based fees as well - how much money would an eL club made on that player?

So who exactly isn't thinking things through?

[EireBadBoy]

The basic fact is everybody wants a to make a load of cash and look after there own, England (Or Dunfermilne) is the honey pot, Clubs like Boh's are making it possible for Good Players to stay in Ireland, play top flight football and make money...More should follow their example.
It's no good slagging Pat Devlin 'cause he creates oppurtunities for Players in England, I'm sure if the same players could make 3/4 the money playing EL Footy they would stay!

[CollegeTillIDie]

Roy Keane started at Cobh Ramblers and went to Nottm Forest for 25,000 Stg. Ronnie Whelan played 2 seasons in the league for Home Farm before moving to Liverpool. As Farm were amateur they got shag all for him. Kevin Moran played a bit with Bohs and U.C.D. as well as Pegasus before going to Man United.
Paul McGrath had one season at St. Pat's before signing for Man United. St. Pat's got about 30,000 for what turned out to be arguably the best Irish International player ever.
Steve Staunton played in the League of Ireland B Division for Dundalk before going over to Liverpool . He became the first 100 cap man for the Republic of Ireland at the World Cup last summer.
He wasn't able to oust Martin Lawlor from the left-back berth at Oriel Park. which is no disrespect to Steve as Martin is probably the best left-back ever to play for that club.


What all 5 of the above have in common is that they were all Republic of Ireland Internationals who began their careers in the Eircom League. Arguably 4 of the best players for the national team over the last 25 years too .

And one last point :-
If It hadn't been for our First Division Keano wouldn't know how to ride a tackle never mind maim an opponent !


Any league that can produce players of that calibre can't be all bad.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Firstly the Leargas show was excellent. Michael O hUanachan has been a Bray fan for yonks. The Director Sean O Mealoid used to be on the Sportiris team . That was a wkly sport magazine show that ran for many years on TG4 .
Secondly to add to the things that hold our League back is the slavish hypocritical attitude of the vast majority of the population. They worship English Premiership teams such as Man United Liverpool and yet do not attend any el games or support any of our 22 member clubs. Put Beckham or Owen in an England shirt and these self same so called Irish citizens will boo them at every hands turn .These plastic paddies put their English teams ahead of their country which means that
its ok for the captain to shag off before the World Cup when his country needs him most. But then again they don't care if the EL disappears as long as their local doesn't charge them to watch Sky sports they will be happy as pigs in ****. Newstalk 106 had a fans phone in tonight it was about Liverpool and Houlier. You don't get fans phone ins by and large on English radio stations about Bohs, Rovers and Cork City now do you? The Irish indeed
speaking a foreign lingo ignorant of our own one and supporting foreign teams. Why did the 1916 signatories bother?Is this what we got our independence for? Real football fans go to games in stadiums and are not bar stool potatoes!