More of it: Tenders Sought For Ministerial Cars

[Lionel Ritchie]

Minimum speck of 2.4L engine size. 18 cars needed.

They're just talking about it on The Last Word. Absolutely no need for it.

They even ignored the "example" set by our glorious Environment minister who gets shuttled around in a Hybrid Lexus. Bless him for roughing it.:mad:

Get these ***** out!!!

[Risteard]

Probably preparing the cheap-shots that will bring down the Kenny/Rabitte dictatorship . . . . . . . . . . . at last.

[GavinZac]

Bless him for roughing it.:mad:

you're complaining that the environment minister has the temerity to use the only commercially viable hybrid model available in ireland?

[Lionel Ritchie]

you're complaining that the environment minister has the temerity to use the only commercially viable hybrid model available in ireland?

Define 'commercially viable' for me?

Could our environment minister not set an example and take a train? Fcuk no ...sure he'd have to mix with his constituents.

If he actually needs a car -could he not get anything smaller than a lexus?

Reasonably assuming it's only him, a driver and maybe a PA who travel in it -could he not get a 1.2 litre Clio or similar and have it's fuel injection modified?
Christ he could go the whole way up to a Megane or a Scenic and it'd still cost a fraction to buy and run compared to his lexus hybrid.

But sure I'm not living in the real world I suppose. We can't have our ministers going around in small pokey little cars.:rolleyes:

[Dodge]

Get these ***** out!!!
If you think any government in the world would be different, you're fooling yourself

[GavinZac]

Define 'commercially viable' for me?

Could our environment minister not set an example and take a train? Fcuk no ...sure he'd have to mix with his constituents.

If he actually needs a car -could he not get anything smaller than a lexus?

Reasonably assuming it's only him, a driver and maybe a PA who travel in it -could he not get a 1.2 litre Clio or similar and have it's fuel injection modified?
Christ he could go the whole way up to a Megane or a Scenic and it'd still cost a fraction to buy and run compared to his lexus hybrid.

But sure I'm not living in the real world I suppose. We can't have our ministers going around in small pokey little cars.:rolleyes:i'm starting to doubt you know or understand what a hybrid car is, and as i said, Lexus have the only commerically viable hybrid car on sale, they pretty much have a monopoly on that market in ireland/the uk at the moment. if the guy had a hybrid seicento constructed, or a japanese hybrid imported at massive cost to the tax payer, i presume you'd be the first to
jump up and down about it.

as for ministers driving "small pokey cars", if they had to do that they'd probably just buy their own cars and use those. And as for getting the train everywhere... i mean, come on. there are entire constituencies without any rail access, let alone individual destinations.

[Lionel Ritchie]

i'm starting to doubt you know or understand what a hybrid car is, and as i said, Lexus have the only commerically viable hybrid car on sale, they pretty much have a monopoly on that market in ireland/the uk at the moment. if the guy had a hybrid seicento constructed, or a japanese hybrid imported at massive cost to the tax payer, i presume you'd be the first to
jump up and down about it.

I know full well what a hybrid car is. Actually I wouldn't have had a massive issue with him having a more modest japanese hybrid imported. I doubt it would have cost as much to run and service as a lexus equivalent and while I don't know my shop floor prices on new vehicles -I'm guessing you could post a toyata piece by piece from japan if neccessary and still not make up the difference in price of a lexus.

Battery cell Hybrids aside it would cost well below five grand and possibly little more than a thousand to have any standard car converted to run on ethanol. He IS minister for the environment after all ...a little initiative shouldn't be too much to ask -beyond a hybrid lexus -which frankly ranks up there with Diamond Joe Quimbys trip to Aruba to explore the viability of a light rail link.



as for ministers driving "small pokey cars", if they had to do that they'd probably just buy their own cars and use those. That's their business. We could have them claim mileage that crucified those that drove larger, inefficient vehicles.



And as for getting the train everywhere... i mean, come on. there are entire constituencies without any rail access, let alone individual destinations. Bus station's that-a-way. Lot's of others do it. ...and they do keep telling us it's easier than ever to get about on public transport these days.

[pete]

i'm starting to doubt you know or understand what a hybrid car is, and as i said, Lexus have the only commerically viable hybrid car on sale, they pretty much have a monopoly on that market in ireland/the uk at the moment.

I am also confused by what you mean "commerically viable". Ever heard of the Toyota Prius? Honda also have a hybrid. The Lexus GS 450 "hybrid" is 100k euro to purchase & is unlikely to be more for efficient that an decent regular saloon car. What is the Lexus mpg?

Hybrids are a con anyway as not necessarily more efficient than petrol or diesel motors.

:confused:

Suggesting Ministers drive around in a Renault Clio would make us a laughing stock. I don't have a problem with it but would like them to have to drive through same traffic as the rest of us.

[GavinZac]

I am also confused by what you mean "commerically viable". sales of toyota's lexus brand are far more likely in this market as anyone willing to pay extra for the green-factor is likely to also be willing to pay for the label. i'd wager they outsell toyota's lower cost hybrids here and i'd be willing to bet there are only a handful of hybrid honda civics, if any at all.

[Bald Student]

Hybrids are a con anyway as not necessarily more efficient than petrol or diesel motors.No but when you buy one you're supporting the development of a new technology which is at least as important as any energy saving in the car itself.

[pete]

No but when you buy one you're supporting the development of a new technology which is at least as important as any energy saving in the car itself.

I suppose they are better than biofuels which has become fashionable without any thought to the downsides.

Better off buying a used car.

[dahamsta]

For the record:

As pete says, Lexus isn't the only commercially viable hybrid in Ireland, there's also the Prius. The Honda isn't sold in Ireland to the best of my knowledge, except perhaps as an import.
It would be ridiculous to have our government ministers be driven around in Prius'. It might be PC, but it wouldn't be practical and it would look positively idiotic.
Hybrids are more efficient, if driven correctly. In my opinion it's very unlikely that government minister hybrids would be driven correctly. They tend to be pushed quite hard. Illegally, often.
Yes, where possible ministers should take alternative transport. However given the job the incumbent government has done on public transport, it wouldn't be viable.
Lexus != Toyota. Lexus was split out from Toyota recently and while Toyota likely still retains a majority shareholding, that's unlikely to last.
The Prius has been available direct from Toyota for 2 years and indirectly for longer, whereas Lexus hybrids have only just come to market in Ireland. There's absolutely no way Lexus hybrids have outsold the Prius. Finally, the data center I'm currently working on (http://www.cix.ie/) has a (long-term, notional) plan to feed power into the national grid to balance unpredictable wind energy, using spare capacity on our biofuel-powered generators. So I'm curious: what's wrong with biofuels?

adam

[osarusan]

It would be ridiculous to have our government ministers be driven around in Prius'. It might be PC, but it wouldn't be practical and it would look positively idiotic.


Why? It would be PC, but I dont see whats so ridiculous about it.

[pete]

So I'm curious: what's wrong with biofuels?


Corn & other crops previously used for food & animal feed are now being used for fuel which has caused the price rises in those other areas. Higher priced for cereals & animal products isn't such a big deal in the West but could have negative outcome in the 3rd world.

Its something worthy of debate as opposed to some suggestions that biofuels are THE solution.

[GavinZac]

Corn & other crops previously used for food & animal feed are now being used for fuel which has caused the price rises in those other areas. Higher priced for cereals & animal products isn't such a big deal in the West but could have negative outcome in the 3rd world.

Its something worthy of debate as opposed to some suggestions that biofuels are THE solution.

on the other hand, it creates another cash crop that, if controlled better than coffee/cocoa which are pure cash crops, could spark 3rd world countries' economies.

[Bald Student]

Finally, the data center I'm currently working on (http://www.cix.ie/) has a (long-term, notional) plan to feed power into the national grid to balance unpredictable wind energy, using spare capacity on our biofuel-powered generators. So I'm curious: what's wrong with biofuels?There's nothing wrong with that but spare power from data centres and the like is only ever going to provide a small fraction of the country's power. The more important question about them is whether they can be produced in big enough quantities to make bigger inroads into our needs.

[dahamsta]

There's nothing wrong with that but spare power from data centres and the like is only ever going to provide a small fraction of the country's power.That's not the intention Bald Student; the intention is to provide cover for wind. AC power can't be stored, so if the wind drops or picks up so much turbines have to be decoupled, something needs to be brought up to cover them. Regular power stations take hours to spin up, whereas we can bring up megawatts in a matter of seconds. We operate a small DC but we could supply over a megawatt from day one, and bigger DC's like the new Microsoft one could supply a hell of a lot more. Plus of course there's generators in factories, hospitals, etc.

Of course there's a lot of other considerations, but applied right, a plan like this could solve Ireland's energy inefficiencies overnight. What's more, if the generators are run on PPO (Pure Plant Oil) or other biofuels, you have a replacement for the entire sugar beet crop.

We're at a very early stage with this, and other people are already working on it, but imho that's proof positive that it could very well be a viable plan.

pete, on environmental issues there is no single answer. You know this, as does anyone else with an ounce of intelligence.

adam

[Bald Student]

That's not the intention Bald Student; the intention is to provide cover for wind. AC power can't be stored, so if the wind drops or picks up so much turbines have to be decoupled, something needs to be brought up to cover them. Regular power stations take hours to spin up, whereas we can bring up megawatts in a matter of seconds. We operate a small DC but we could supply over a megawatt from day one, and bigger DC's like the new Microsoft one could supply a hell of a lot more. Plus of course there's generators in factories, hospitals, etc.I understand all that* and the ESB could do the same on a bigger scale if they had access to a big enough supply of biofuels. The problem is one of supply rather than demand.
*I highlighted the only bit I disagree with, I think you're being a bit unfair here. Gas plants can respond as quickly as anything else.

In any case, the discussion is a bit academic, as well as off topic, since I think that if we did get a good supply of biofuels, it'd be much more usefull in transport than electricity generation.

[Lionel Ritchie]

*I highlighted the only bit I disagree with, I think you're being a bit unfair here. Gas plants can respond as quickly as anything else.
.

Not long ago I mentioned a the new generation of hydro electric stations which drop the water on the turbines rather than passing it over them. They claim that from a cold start they can generate the same megawattage in 12 seconds that an Ardnacrusha era station would require 12 hours to build up to.

[Bald Student]

Not long ago I mentioned a the new generation of hydro electric stations which drop the water on the turbines rather than passing it over them. They claim that from a cold start they can generate the same megawattage in 12 seconds that an Ardnacrusha era station would require 12 hours to build up to.In the pump storage station in Wicklow they cheat and get the turbines up to speed using an electric motor and then let the water at them. If I remember right, they can do this in about a minuite and a half. They even have a little diesel generator that can provide the power for this which they've never used apart from testing but in the event that all their stations get turned off at once, that's what they'll use to get one of their turbines spinning.

[dahamsta]

I won't argue with you on gas or water plants, you're probably absolutely right. On the subject of the ESB doing it themselves, they could of course, but the whole point is that we can save them the capital cost. All we'd want in return is a trade of power at off-peak times, when they don't need it. So we're not trying to replace the ESB, just supplement them at critical times.

adam