Election 2007: Other Leaders Prime Time Debate [Archive]

Lim till i die

17/05/2007, 2:42 PM

Poor Student

17/05/2007, 2:43 PM

Trevor Sargent's left hand had some stuff scribbled on it and he kept showing his hand to the camera.:o

It was a bit of an imbalanced debate. Though SF aren't exactly allies with Labour and the Greens it was in some ways a 3 versus 1 on McDowell. Gerry Adams gave it his usual butter wouldn't melt in his mouth routine and McDowell took some amusing cheap shots at him for it during the debate. Pat Rabbite seemed to say nothing of substance but Sargent and Adams did make some interesting points. I don't think yesterday can have done McDowell any harm with Gorman's attack and his under seige battle last night.

But that's just the sideshow, we have the presedential debate tonight.;)

Poor Student

17/05/2007, 2:45 PM

McDowell (as per usual) came across terrible IMO

Gerry Adams asks him about drug policy, what PD's have done for deprived areas etc and McDowell starts going on about narco terrorists and Adam's IRA record :rolleyes:

To be fair, while Adam's critiques weren't invalid, I was thinking the same thing as McDowell said. It's a bit cringe to hear SF going on about drug problems given Republican paramiliarties' involvement in drug crime.

Lim till i die

17/05/2007, 3:09 PM

To be fair, while Adam's critiques weren't invalid, I was thinking the same thing as McDowell said. It's a bit cringe to hear SF going on about drug problems given Republican paramiliarties' involvement in drug crime.

That whole F.A.R.C, IRA army council thing was ridiculously petty though, it was years ago and it's unbecoming of a Minister for Justice to lower the debate to somewhere slightly below schoolyard level

It's a tactic that McDowell constantly uses when he can't answer a question and I find it incredibly irritating

It was also deeply insulting to the Irish electorates intelligenc to simply dismiss F.A.R.C as narco-Terrorists, implying that the Colombian government were all sweetness and light. A ploy he gets away with because of the average Irish voters intelligence though :o

Although as my dad pointed out while watching it an excellent reply from Adams would have been: "Ah yes minister, those three men were brought to justice in Colombia on your watch, then what happened?" ;)

Although what would be even more refreshing would be for McDowell to answer a question for once

Dodge

17/05/2007, 3:18 PM

It's a tactic that McDowell constantly uses when he can't answer a question and I find it incredibly irritating

Its his biggest downfall.

Lim till i die

17/05/2007, 3:22 PM

Its his biggest downfall.

Not sure whether you're being sarcastic but I'm inclined to agree with you :o

Although the Facist image, frankly terrifyingly evil smile and obvious hatred of the poor don't look well either :)

Dodge

17/05/2007, 3:34 PM

Lim till i die

17/05/2007, 3:39 PM

I wasn't. I know a few right leaning people who can't stand him for his smug looking face and his petty petty comments.

I'm pretty much opposed to everything he's ever done/said but his fecking childishness is disgraceful for a man in his position

And to make it worse I'm told he's a barrister??

You'd imagine he'd at least be able to have an intelligent debate

beautifulrock

17/05/2007, 3:49 PM

interesting debate alright, but one of McD's better replies was when Gerry said he pulled the average working mans wage and was putting on a bit of a poor mouth when Mikey came back and said what about your house in Belfast, your holiday home in Donegal, how does that fit in. Gerry couldnt answer, Pat R had a little chuckle and Trevor seemed to be bemused that someone had two houses. Tonights will be interesting though. I wonder how much an influnce these head to heads have on the final outcome?

Jerry The Saint

17/05/2007, 3:56 PM

And to make it worse I'm told he's a barrister??

He was shockingly poor at delivering the address to the camera at the beginning. Makes you wonder how he made a living at it:confused:

As was Sergeant (Didn't see Rabbitte and we've all seen Adams do his shtick more than enough at this stage).

Politicians in this country should be grateful to George Bush for lowering the acceptable standards of public speaking for prospective leaders.

pete

17/05/2007, 3:56 PM

I read the bit about Gerry Adams saying he was earning the average industrial wage when McDowell challenged him about owning 2 houses. It makes me think there is surely no housing crisis if someone can afford to pay for two houses on the average industrial wage?

:confused:

Why is Adams in the leader debates when he not staring for election in the Dail. I have no problem with him standing for election here but he will not be part of the Dail so should have the SF Dail leader as the spokesperson.

Dodge

17/05/2007, 4:09 PM

Look at O'Snodaigh's page on mycandidate.ie (http://www.mycandidate.ie/candidate.php?cid=159)
"As promised before he was elected, Aengus only draws the average wage."

Expenses for 2005: €29686

You have to laugh at the barefaced cheek of them

Marty Upton of Labour claimed €7k less for her expenses. The two FFers claimed more

Poor Student

17/05/2007, 4:11 PM

LTID, I feel that McDowell has bottomed out so badly that this can only help him as the PDs can't sink any lower. His tactless cheap attacks are going to appeal to certain amount of people.

I had to laugh when Mark Little pulled Gerry Adams up on his rhetorical advices. "This is the third time you've mentioned equality". He's really fond of the terms 'citizens', 'rights', 'constitution' etc.

Pete, is there any particular problem with it? Sir Reg Empey is the UUP leader but he doesn't have a Westminster seat.

Did anyone find Pat Rabbite's licking up to Sargent nauseating?

pete

17/05/2007, 4:18 PM

Look at O'Snodaigh's page on mycandidate.ie (http://www.mycandidate.ie/candidate.php?cid=159)
"As promised before he was elected, Aengus only draws the average wage."

Expenses for 2005: �29686

Sure those fake garda uniforms (http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0221/ira.html) must be fairly expensive to source :D

Poor Student

17/05/2007, 4:19 PM

Look at O'Snodaigh's page on mycandidate.ie (http://www.mycandidate.ie/candidate.php?cid=159)
"As promised before he was elected, Aengus only draws the average wage."

Expenses for 2005: �29686

Notice how he's using his old crappy black and white posters and his new glossy ones and you can see how he's aged, put on weight and lost hair? He looks awful by comparison.

beautifulrock

17/05/2007, 4:45 PM

Look at O'Snodaigh's page on mycandidate.ie (http://www.mycandidate.ie/candidate.php?cid=159)
"As promised before he was elected, Aengus only draws the average wage."

Expenses for 2005: €29686

That would pay for a couple of mortgages alright. However, I think we all know that most politicans speak with forked tongue. Still, will be glued to the heavyweight battle tonight, makes compelling TV or at least I hope it does.:D

TonyD

17/05/2007, 9:09 PM

interesting debate alright, but one of McD's better replies was when Gerry said he pulled the average working mans wage and was putting on a bit of a poor mouth when Mikey came back and said what about your house in Belfast, your holiday home in Donegal, how does that fit in. Gerry couldnt answer,

You've left out the best bit, when Grizzly Adams said "Sure the Bank owns that" (The holiday House) Mickey Mac bit back, quick as a flash "Which bank, the Northern Bank ?" I can't stand McDowell, but that was quite funny.

Poor Student

17/05/2007, 10:35 PM

You've left out the best bit, when Grizzly Adams said "Sure the Bank owns that" (The holiday House) Mickey Mac bit back, quick as a flash "Which bank, the Northern Bank ?" I can't stand McDowell, but that was quite funny.

Adams actually enjoyed that, you could see him grinning.

beautifulrock

17/05/2007, 10:37 PM

You've left out the best bit, when Grizzly Adams said "Sure the Bank owns that" (The holiday House) Mickey Mac bit back, quick as a flash "Which bank, the Northern Bank ?" I can't stand McDowell, but that was quite funny.

Yes indeed Tony , i laughed at that, Grizzly didnt bat an eye lid though, although there was a few "stage coughs" from the rest.

Bald Student

17/05/2007, 10:41 PM

I just watched it now on the internet and (unfortunatley) I thought McD came out of it the best. I disagree with pretty much everything he said but from the point of view of communication he did very well. He made his two or three points strongly and repeatedly and played well on the three against one nature of the discussion.

I vote for the Greens so it was disapointing to see them do so badly. Trevor allowed McD to derail him very easily and used nearly all his time to correct McD on minor points instead of expressing his own opinions.

Gerry was very poor, he didn't seem to know what he was talking about half the time and Pat was his usual pomous self, I could hardly believe the number of times he said 'I've made myself very clear' at the end, while not making himself at all clear.

Poor Student

17/05/2007, 10:46 PM

I vote for the Greens so it was disapointing to see them do so badly. Trevor allowed McD to derail him very easily and used nearly all his time to correct McD on minor points instead of expressing his own opinions.

I think you could feel a genuine disdain from Sargent coming through from McDowell. The PDs have been spreading several outright lies about the Greens e.g. corporation tax and vaccinations and it's rattled them. You can see this in Gormley's rant and Sargent's borderline aggression towards McDowell.

BohsPartisan

17/05/2007, 10:49 PM

pete

17/05/2007, 10:52 PM

Not watched the debate yet but Greens don't really do leadership. Sure didn't they have joint leaders for a while? I think they used to think having a leader is like a Central American dictatorship. Sargeant could wear a recycled bin bag & won't damage their vote.

:D

Bald Student

17/05/2007, 10:53 PM

I think you could feel a genuine disdain from Sargent coming through from McDowell. The PDs have been spreading several outright lies about the Greens e.g. corporation tax and vaccinations and it's rattled them. You can see this in Gormley's rant and Sargent's borderline aggression towards McDowell.True but these people are supposed to be adults, let alone political leaders and should be able to handle themselves better.

When you have bizarro medical policies which, McD's misrepresentations aside, they do, You should be prepared to defend them and know in advance what you're going to say. Waving bits of paper in front of the camera and point your finger aggressively doesn't do any good.

Aberdonian Stu

18/05/2007, 1:06 PM

I vote for the Greens so it was disapointing to see them do so badly. Trevor allowed McD to derail him very easily and used nearly all his time to correct McD on minor points instead of expressing his own opinions.

This is the big problem I have with the Greens campaign. They keep on going on about how the PDs are campaigning negatively but highlighting it won't help.

They need to take the dignified stance and not waste their time correcting them, especially as (irrespective of the actual importance of the points they are challenging) all their corrections are delivered in a very nitpicky manner.

They should focus on what they're saying. A lot of punters want a reason to vote for, or at least give a high preference to, the Greens. Getting bogged down in petty squabbles doesn't achieve that.

Bald Student

18/05/2007, 2:24 PM

I was thinking about this last night (Pacific Time). I thought the contrast was interesting with how McD handled himself when Adams misquoted what he'd said about equality. He quickly corrected the statement and then went on to point out that Adams has two houses and was therefore talking rubbish, putting Gerry onto the back foot. He turned defence into offence very quickly. I'm not too concerned about a politician's debating skille but it's something the greens could learn from.