Next season's strike force [Archive]

View Full Version : Next season's strike force

bwagner

15/05/2007, 9:42 AM

jbyrne

15/05/2007, 10:13 AM

With Robbie Keane ,Doyle , Long , Folan , Connolly , Murphy , Elliot , Stokes
(possibly Macken or Ward and Keough or Best ) all playing in the next premiership season ...What are your thoughts on their potential impact etc.....

It surely will be most strikers we have had at the top level .

doyle and keane up front without a doubt. if stan insists on one up front then keane to play just off doyle. fair to say that both these lads have had good seasons overall despite injury / loss of form at times

ifk101

15/05/2007, 10:16 AM

Keane and Doyle are the only two players in that list who definitely will be playing Premiership football next season.

As for the others, I wouldn't be surprised if Keane off-loaded all of his Irish strikers in the off-season.

RiffRaff

15/05/2007, 10:20 AM

I think Elliott, probably Connolly and possibly Murphy will be let go by Keane. He's already said he will have to let some players go to bring in new ones.

Stuttgart88

15/05/2007, 11:03 AM

Elliott is most likely to be let go in my opinion, but I still think he's got something to offer us if he stays injury free. Compare Elliott's goal haul in his debut season 2 years ago to Connolly's this year (and Connolly takes penalties).

Murphy has been very good for Keane & I think he's got a real chance.

I don't think we need everyone playing Premiership football. Andy Keogh, Stephen Elliott etc. would still be very useful options to us if playing regularly at the top of the Championship, maybe more useful than Long making occasional appreances & sub appearances for Reading.

Will Stern John be kept on?

It'll be interesting to see if Keane maintains his rotation policy in the Premiership.

Billsthoughts

15/05/2007, 11:38 AM

I would try out Stokes up front..doyle should be a definite starter as he is only one who has played well for club and country. Keane should play off the striker if he does play. Think Roy Keane bought a lot of players with the expectation he would be in the championship for another season. might offload a good few of them now. can see him keeping connolly tho. he might see it as a good barometer of himself as a manager if he can get connolly doing well in the premiership. This should be the Ireland/Sunderland forum. :)

theworm2345

15/05/2007, 12:15 PM

If one looks at Sunderland's transfer targets it doesn't look like Keane is really looking for new strikers, the only ones on there are Andy Cole, Robbie Fowler (both pretty old), and David Nugent...who I doubt they could get. I think they'll end up with one new striker and keep 3 of the ones from last season (Murphy, Connolly, and John/Stokes, I bet Stokes will be loaned out though)

Torn-Ado

15/05/2007, 1:39 PM

youngirish

15/05/2007, 2:02 PM

Keane and Doyle would be my first choice strike force. However sometimes I think that maybe we could do with a targetman up front on occassions as the midfield are not the most creative players in the world. We'd have to see how Folan does at Wigan with a new manager. Hopefully he can fit the bill.
Unfortunately I don't think Folan is anything to get too hot and sweaty about.

The target man option will probably be best fillled by Daryl Murphy next season or Cillian Sheridan if he breaks through at Celtic (which is likely considering their limited options upfront). In the long term Cillian Sheridan looks to be the best fit for Niall Quinn's size 15s.

However knowing Stan he'll probably play Terry Dixon and Alan O'Brien as our front pairing next season.

Bungle

15/05/2007, 2:04 PM

Keane has said that Murphy has the potential to be a top player if he applies himself.Having seen Murphy, I believe that he has all the attributes to become a very good player.He's tall and strong and has good technique.

eirebhoy

15/05/2007, 2:05 PM

Torn-Ado

15/05/2007, 2:09 PM

Unfortunately I don't think Folan is anything to get too hot and sweaty about.

The target man option will probably be best fillled by Daryl Murphy next season or Cillian Sheridan if he breaks through at Celtic (which is likely considering their limited options upfront). In the long term Cillian Sheridan looks to be the best fit for Niall Quinn's size 15s.

However knowing Stan he'll probably play Terry Dixon and Alan O'Brien as our front pairing next season.

It will be interesting to see how Murphy will do in the premiership, if he is kept on that is. But I do think a team like Ireland will need a target man. Our midfield lack so muck creativity that a tall striker causing havoc might be our only option. Especially if Duff is out.

Stuttgart88

15/05/2007, 2:21 PM

As highly as I rate Duff I don't think we'd miss him too much with a front 3 of:
---Doyle---Stokes---
-------Keane-------

Let Keane play in his best position where we don't have to rely on him to get us goals.

Was thinking the same, but how would you configure the midfield 3 behind them? 4-3-1-2 or whatever you want to call it necessitates a strong midfield.

Hunt (Kilbane) - Carsley - Ireland?

A lot of emphasis is placed on the full backs to provide the width that a narrower midfield 3 gives up.

Collyontour

15/05/2007, 3:43 PM

Has to be Keane and Doyle. Stokes has to prove himself at top club level before being considered, the same goes for the rest.

reder

15/05/2007, 5:51 PM

Has to be Keane and Doyle. Stokes has to prove himself at top club level before being considered, the same goes for the rest.

What he says. I just dont get this whole pro-Stokes campaign. The guy signed for Sunderland at xmas and has done absolutely nothing since.

All of the strikers in that list are a waste of space minus Keane and Doyle. Connolly can and will score goals but is probably never going to get selected judging by the squad for the US games, so we can totally discount him.

Also I really dont think Keane is in a position to start off-loading players at Sunderland. PL standard strikers that are up for sale are very thin on the ground.

republicofwhite

15/05/2007, 5:56 PM

People are being incredibly judgemental about Stokes. For gods sake, can't you just appreciate it when we have some genuinely exciting talent and flair coming through?! He "did nothing" at Sunderland because he was completely unsettled. After he signed, he had to leave his house in Falkirk, go live in London for a short while, go back to Falkirk for a brief period to sort everything out, and then to a hotel in Sunderland for the remainder of the season, without his folks, who he'd been accustomed to living with. May I remind you he only turned 18 in July or August. This must be difficult, and a whole new experience. Allied to much publicised disciplinary matters and being consistently played out of his best position, it has been period of difficult transition. He claimed he was finding his feet in the last week or wto. Roy Keane know the enormous potential he has with Stokes, and I guarantee you he will maximise it next season. Expect things then, and they'll happen.

eirebhoy

15/05/2007, 6:36 PM

What he says. I just dont get this whole pro-Stokes campaign. The guy signed for Sunderland at xmas and has done absolutely nothing since.

We had enough time to make a judgement on him before that though.

reder

15/05/2007, 9:24 PM

We had enough time to make a judgement on him before that though.

Oh, so a good run of games for the mighty Falkirk makes you international class all of a sudden.

Richie Foran would have made the squad as a result of his motherwell form by those measures.

I wish the lad well dont get me wrong but I just dont see why he should be included in the squad until he has scored consistently at Championship or PL level.

cavan_fan

15/05/2007, 9:27 PM

Not sure we should rely on Leon Best's penalty taking either!

tricky_colour

15/05/2007, 9:34 PM

Not sure we should rely on Leon Best's penalty taking either!

Certaintly not, it looked like he missed by at least a yard (and he seemed be to more placing it than blasting it too) Mind you he certaintly managed to find the back of the next when he headed (edit: I think he mis-kicked) into his own goal.
Anyway he is not going to get promoted, Southampton just lost penalties.

cavan_fan

15/05/2007, 9:43 PM

Certaintly not, it looked like he missed by at least a yard (and he seemed be to more placing it than blasting it too) Mind you he certaintly managed to find the back of the next when he headed (edit: I think he mis-kicked) into his own goal.
Anyway he is not going to get promoted, Southampton just lost penalties.

I'm now going to base a judgement on having watched him for 50 minutes. He seems an idle sod and offside all the time

beautifulrock

15/05/2007, 9:49 PM

and Best took a very casual peno in the shoot out, looks good if it goes in but if it dosent well then.....

eirebhoy

15/05/2007, 10:06 PM

Oh, so a good run of games for the mighty Falkirk makes you international class all of a sudden.

You can put it whatever way you like but I've seen enough of Stokes to make a judgement on him. He's a great finisher, great positional sense and a player that probably won't be affected much by confidence because of his character. I think the confidence thing is important because many players go on a great run of scoring on a high of confidence, like David Healy for N.Ireland. Stokes doesn't seem to be a confidence player to me.

Richie Foran would have made the squad as a result of his motherwell form by those measures.
Excluding penos Foran scored 3 goals in the SPL this season and i've never been impressed with him.

tricky_colour

15/05/2007, 11:25 PM

I'm now going to base a judgement on having watched him for 50 minutes. He seems an idle sod and offside all the time

I would not make a judgement one the basis of just one game, he did some good work to set up a chance but that penalty looked pretty dreadful, maybe the own goal was unlucky, I just hope he does not have a habit of being "unlucky"!! First time I have seen him play really.

youngirish

16/05/2007, 9:22 AM

You can put it whatever way you like but I've seen enough of Stokes to make a judgement on him. He's a great finisher, great positional sense and a player that probably won't be affected much by confidence because of his character. I think the confidence thing is important because many players go on a great run of scoring on a high of confidence, like David Healy for N.Ireland. Stokes doesn't seem to be a confidence player to me.

Excluding penos Foran scored 3 goals in the SPL this season and i've never been impressed with him.
Eirebhoy you can't make a judgement on the International pedigree of a player when all he's done is bang in a few goals against opposition such as St Mirren and Inverness. It's a totally different class of football. Chances don't just come to you against good defences (unlike in the SPL). You have to work and make space to create them yourself. It's a totally different ball game and I said Stokes could easily struggle for Sunderland at the time of his move and I happened to be right (as always - it's a curse).

Anyway I think Stokes could be a good player in the future for Ireland but he's not at this present time good enough to be even on the bench irrespective of his goals in the SPL. Long and Murphy are both better alternatives at present. Next season is a big one for him.

I'm now going to base a judgement on having watched him for 50 minutes. He seems an idle sod and offside all the time

As for Best we saw last night that he's no defender (as is the case with John O'Shea) but I think he has talent (unlike John O'Shea). I think he's a similar sort of player to our Clinton when he was younger but we'll see if he improves with age (Clinton unfortunately didn't get much better as he matured). He played a nice ball in for the second goal last night but his peno was cack. Still not sure he's commited to Ireland though.

Stuttgart88

16/05/2007, 10:08 AM

Still not sure he's commiteed to Ireland though.
One way to find out: call him up to replace Folan.

eirebhoy

16/05/2007, 11:29 AM

Eirebhoy you can't make a judgement on the International pedigree of a player when all he's done is bang in a few goals against opposition such as St Mirren and Inverness.
I can, I can, I can. :)

I'm sure you think Celtic are a bit mad paying £4.5m for a 21 year old who is only proven in the SPL? Definitely not in my opinion.

youngirish

16/05/2007, 12:08 PM

I can, I can, I can. :)

I'm sure you think Celtic are a bit mad paying £4.5m for a 21 year old who is only proven in the SPL? Definitely not in my opinion.
Not really. If he has proven that he can do the job in the SPL then that's exactly what they require and hence he's worth the money to them. Whether a Premiership club would pay anywhere near as much for the same player, I'd be surprised.

I haven't seen the lad play so I can't really comment though Scotland do have a good U19 team and he was captain of it as far as I know so he probably is decent.

Torn-Ado

16/05/2007, 12:21 PM

Regarding the Stokes issue. The lad scored something like three hattricks and 14 or 15 goals in total in a half season in the SPL. Doing that in any league is a fine achievement. Especially for a young player.

Stokes will be a quality player. I'm sure of it. :)

eirebhoy

16/05/2007, 12:27 PM

Not really. If he has proven that he can do the job in the SPL then that's exactly what they require and hence he's worth the money to them. Whether a Premiership club would pay anywhere near as much for the same player, I'd be surprised.
Celtic won't sign players that they don't feel will be good enough for the Champions league. Their targets are no different to those of Newcastle, Bolton, etc. 2 or 3 premiership clubs actually offered more than Celtic for Brown (source: his agent (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vxx6GWFgno)).

There are plenty of players I'd have doubts about stepping up to Champions league / international level but I definitely think Stokes is good enough and will be a great player.

Torn-Ado

16/05/2007, 12:30 PM

Celtic won't sign players that they don't feel will be good enough for the Champions league. Their targets are no different to those of Newcastle, Bolton, etc. 2 or 3 premiership clubs actually offered more than Celtic for Brown (source: his agent (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vxx6GWFgno)).

There are plenty of players I'd have doubts about stepping up to Champions league / international level but I definitely think Stokes is good enough and will be a great player.

Hartley, Riordan and McDonald are anything but champions league level IMO.

eirebhoy

16/05/2007, 12:33 PM

Hartley, Riordan and McDonald are anything but champions league level IMO.
Strachan is not going to sign a player that he thinks is good enough for the SPL but not the Champions league. If Celtic qualify for the CL next season Scott McDonald will play his part.

Anyway, my point is that you can judge a player in the SPL as easy as any other league imo. I've seen enough of Stokes and believe he's good enough for the Ireland squad.

Torn-Ado

16/05/2007, 12:41 PM

Strachan is not going to sign a player that he thinks is good enough for the SPL but not the Champions league. If Celtic qualify for the CL next season Scott McDonald will play his part.

Anyway, my point is that you can judge a player in the SPL as easy as any other league imo. I've seen enough of Stokes and believe he's good enough for the Ireland squad.

I agree with you about Stokes.

I don't agree with Strachan though.

KopKiller

16/05/2007, 1:02 PM

Stokes might have the ability to be a quality international player, then again, he might not.

Lets face it, he has only scored goals against 2nd rate opposition so far (sorry that includes Celtic) and has hardly played as a striker for Sunderland so we will see how he gets on in the premiership next season, if keane thinks he is good enough to play that is, doesnt look good if David Connolly is fancied ahead of him.

In saying that, i dont think Murphy or Best can make international players either. I would be more hopefull of Keogh stepping up the grade, he looks quality from what ive seen.

But in reply to the original post, it is great that we have so many strikers to choose from, gone are the days when Gary Doherty was wheeled on for the last 10 minutes.

If we could only find a new top class central midfielder, perhaps even two we would be laughing.

Torn-Ado

16/05/2007, 1:21 PM

But in reply to the original post, it is great that we have so many strikers to choose from, gone are the days when Gary Doherty was wheeled on for the last 10 minutes.

Yes but Doherty was usually wheeled on, not because the strikers were incompetetent but the midfielders who didn't have a creative clue in their heads.

danonion

16/05/2007, 4:22 PM

Yes but Doherty was usually wheeled on, not because the strikers were incompetetent but the midfielders who didn't have a creative clue in their heads.

In fairness to Doherty we've had worse people up top in the last 10 minutes and there was that gane against Scotland...

youngirish

16/05/2007, 4:27 PM

In fairness to Doherty we've had worse people up top in the last 10 minutes and there was that gane against Scotland...

Like who?

jbyrne

18/05/2007, 10:23 AM

In fairness to Doherty we've had worse people up top in the last 10 minutes and there was that gane against Scotland...

agreed. doherty scored same crucial goals when coming on in last 10 mins or so v georgia, russia and albania from my memory.

theres no denying that we have suffered since we havnt had a target man up front. doyle is good an the ball and good in the air so hopefully he can fill the roll from now on to some extent

dr_peepee

18/05/2007, 9:50 PM

I think we forget how young Stokes is!!