Stan says NO to only championship players with 10+ goals

[galwayhoop]

What's really missing is a player with a real presence in the middle who can control the tempo of the game, is industrious and can pick a pass.

them players are missing from 99.9% of teams the world over. they are the great ones. we had one in roy keane and we may not get another for 20 or 30 years. alex ferguson has the luxury of being able to go out and buy a replacement (with plenty of money to do it) and has been trying (unsuccessifully) since about 2001/2002. we have to wait until one who is eligible comes around!! it is time people stopped saying thing like 'we need a new roy keane' and just realised that maybe, just maybe we will need to mix and match players who each may only have one or two of the components you listed above but together they may be effective.

sorry to burst your bubble and all but we just ain't going to stumble onto an unreal CM anytime soon and even if we did it would be 5 years or so until they reached their prime and full potential. just look at the press that j.mcCarthy has got at 16 in our desperate attempt to find the complete central midfield player.

[youngirish]

galwayhoop Joey O'Brien is the dog's and he was only 19 for most of last season. If he gets fit he could be brilliant next season if he plays in his preferred position (central midfield). Unfortunately with his dodgy injury his career could go either way.

[Stuttgart88]

The annoying this is that we actually have an athletic, tall, mobile, box to box, ball carrying, ball winning CM with a piledriver of a shot and who's a half decent passer of the ball - but Stan, in his wisdom and contradicting Sir Bobby Robson's public statements, played him out of position wide right against one of the best CM pairings in the world.

Not just Stan, Kerr and Mick also played this guy right midfield & he's consistently been crap. He'd be the type of player who would complement Stephen Ireland, just as Joey Barton brought the best out of Ireland at City.

And I'm not talking about Joey O'Brien, about whom I agree with youngirish.

[galwayhoop]

galwayhoop Joey O'Brien is the dog's and he was only 19 for most of last season. If he gets fit he could be brilliant next season if he plays in his preferred position (central midfield). Unfortunately with his dodgy injury his career could go either way.

i agree totally. from what i have seen i think that between joey o'brien and steven reid - in a perfect world i.e. injury and form - should be the basis of our centre midfield for a few years to come.

just bored of people describing RK's attritubtes and then saying we need a player that fulfills all of them.

[Wolfie]

Well I suppose some of the above could be considered viable options.

Certainly both Reid's will be a much needed addition. Not sure if they could work as a pair in the midfield but might be worth trying against the Danes (if fit). Is it too late for Kavanagh?

What's really missing is a player with a real presence in the middle who can control the tempo of the game, is industrious and can pick a pass. There's not many of them around and I suppose wishful thinking on my part that a player will emerge.

GalwayHoop - I think my original post above qualified the fact that such a midfield option appearing was wishful thinking on my part.

I think you'll find those midfield attributes are not just specific to Roy Keane - he didn't invent them.

[zinedineontour]

It's and end of season tour aganst Bolivia and Ecuador, not away to Czech Republic!

Any, if you're to cite form then only Connolly's case has real merit.

Morrison has been in and out of Palace's team (his goal vs Derby was really good I admit!) and quite a few of Lee's goals have been penalties, and one hat trick against a totally hapless Luton. I like Lee, he's hard working and honest but really isn't in contention.

Stokes would have been top scorer in SPL if he'd stayed, and for Falkirk, not the big 2. He's also suffered from rotation and being played out of position, like Elliott. Murphy & Keogh have been on great form recently and really deserve their places.

I was referring to connollys and morrisons omittance from the wales and czech games which were qualifiers if i remember rightly ! Stokes has been very poor at Sunderland and has shown a bad attitude and since Staunton had not seen him play at Falkirk once it beggars belief he would pick him for them qualifiers ahead of connolly or morrisson.

[drummerboy]

Stokes has been very poor at Sunderland and has shown a bad attitude.

While Stokes has not set the world alight at Sunderland to say he has struggled is incorrect. He missed the bus once with 3 team mates shouldn't condemn him as “having a bad attitude‘‘. He has only started 7 games and scored 2 goals. Most of the games he has played on the wing. Obviously the best has yet to come. As regards Connolly, he is yesterdays man.

[eirebhoy]

them players are missing from 99.9% of teams the world over. they are the great ones. we had one in roy keane and we may not get another for 20 or 30 years. alex ferguson has the luxury of being able to go out and buy a replacement (with plenty of money to do it) and has been trying (unsuccessifully) since about 2001/2002. we have to wait until one who is eligible comes around!! it is time people stopped saying thing like 'we need a new roy keane' and just realised that maybe, just maybe we will need to mix and match players who each may only have one or two of the components you listed above but together they may be effective.

sorry to burst your bubble and all but we just ain't going to stumble onto an unreal CM anytime soon and even if we did it would be 5 years or so until they reached their prime and full potential. just look at the press that j.mcCarthy has got at 16 in our desperate attempt to find the complete central midfield player.
Not at all. So anyone with "a real presence in the middle who can control the tempo of the game, is industrious and can pick a pass" is of the standard of Roy Keane? :) Andy Reid ticks all those boxes for me. When he's played in the centre everything goes through him.

zinedineontour - It suits your argument to play Stokes down. He's an excellent player who has hardly played up front for Sunderland. I'd pick Stokes ahead of Connolly too and it wasn't so long ago I was the main person on here defending Connolly.

[theworm2345]

I'm sorry you all think that way, but I won't stop until he retires...also he was not so much released by Wigan so much as that Keane wanted him at Sunderland and he wanted to go there (as he and Keane I assume are friend being that Connolly and Breen were the one who supported him during Saipan). He still had 2 years left on his Wigan contract and perhaps would have kept them out of relegation this year (who knows?)

[zinedineontour]

While Stokes has not set the world alight at Sunderland to say he has struggled is incorrect. He missed the bus once with 3 team mates shouldn't condemn him as “having a bad attitude‘‘. He has only started 7 games and scored 2 goals. Most of the games he has played on the wing. Obviously the best has yet to come. As regards Connolly, he is yesterdays man.

stokes has struggled he missed training and was dropped for the sheff wed game also. From people within the club he arrived with a big time charlie attitude but has copped on recently and in the last couple of games in the season started to show the quality he has. Connolly has been excellent this season and is far from yesterdays man. Better goal ratio than the much lauded david nugent.

[Stuttgart88]

Better goal ratio than the much lauded david nugent.
That's a fair point.

Connolly suffers from being (a) incompatible with the superior Keane - look at eirebhoy's stats for proof and I'm not one too cite stats in the ordinary course, (b) not having the benefit of youth on his side.

Connolly is undoubtedly one of our better forwards (somewhere from 4th or 5th downwards) but I think any credible international manager would be correct to fill the later squad places with a look to the future rather than loading the squad with the very best available at any given time.

Also, you've got to assume that Connolly's success at Sunderland is down to the fact that, by and large, Sunderland have superior players or a superior team to their opponents and his goal output benefits as a result. Sure, you've got to give him credit, but in Ireland's case we struggle in midfield and find it hard to dominate even inferior teams, hence the value of real quality up front. We just about have that in Keane & Doyle and may well have it in the near future with the exciting emerging talent.

But given our lack of quality midfielders to get a grip on a game, and an abundantly obvious lack of physical stature in the team, I really can't see Connolly being the answer.

In Jack's era, with a dominant midfield and physical stature throughout the team, Connolly's predatory abilities may have been more appropriate, but not now in my opinion.

[Stuttgart88]

Also, for anyone saying 10 (or a bit more) goals in the Chamionship is great, bear in mind there are 46 games against 38 in the Premiership. Is a goal in one in every 4.6 games in England's second tier really worth getting excited about? Youth can be excepted in this context for obvious reasons.

[kingdom hoop]

That's a fair point.

Connolly suffers from being (a) incompatible with the superior Keane - look at eirebhoy's stats for proof and I'm not one too cite stats in the ordinary course, (b) not having the benefit of youth on his side.

Connolly is undoubtedly one of our better forwards (somewhere from 4th or 5th downwards) but I think any credible international manager would be correct to fill the later squad places with a look to the future rather than loading the squad with the very best available at any given time.

Also, you've got to assume that Connolly's success at Sunderland is down to the fact that, by and large, Sunderland have superior players or a superior team to their opponents and his goal output benefits as a result. Sure, you've got to give him credit, but in Ireland's case we struggle in midfield and find it hard to dominate even inferior teams, hence the value of real quality up front. We just about have that in Keane & Doyle and may well have it in the near future with the exciting emerging talent.

But given our lack of quality midfielders to get a grip on a game, and an abundantly obvious lack of physical stature in the team, I really can't see Connolly being the answer.

In Jack's era, with a dominant midfield and physical stature throughout the team, Connolly's predatory abilities may have been more appropriate, but not now in my opinion.

Good post there Stutts. A rock of sense. I would be one of the defenders (bit oxymoronic but there ya go!) of Connolly but that post puts my mind at rest. :)

[theworm2345]

Good post there Stutts. A rock of sense. I would be one of the defenders (bit oxymoronic but there ya go!) of Connolly but that post puts my mind at rest. :)
Not me, if Keane's out (as he is) Connolly is, in my mind, the best replacement for him just because they do play alike and when he gets the chances he will score (as he has done wherever he has played (Wigan he was hurt so we can't count that))

[livehead1]

Not me, if Keane's out (as he is) Connolly is, in my mind, the best replacement for him just because they do play alike and when he gets the chances he will score (as he has done wherever he has played (Wigan he was hurt so we can't count that))

cop yaself on. jewell would have saw more than enough of connolly on the training ground to be able to judge for himself whether he was capable of playing in the premiership...he sold him at the first available oppurtunity

[theworm2345]

cop yaself on. jewell would have saw more than enough of connolly on the training ground to be able to judge for himself whether he was capable of playing in the premiership...he sold him at the first available oppurtunity
Once again...

...he was not so much released by Wigan so much as that Keane wanted him at Sunderland and he wanted to go there (as he and Keane I assume are friend being that Connolly and Breen were the one who supported him during Saipan). He still had 2 years left on his Wigan contract and perhaps would have kept them out of relegation this year (who knows?)
I believe Connolly was 3rd choice striker there and he played 75 minutes against Arsenal in his last game there after Camara hurt himself (where I think he set up a goal, can't remember). Wigan have the 4th worst Goal Difference in the EPL, maybe because they don't have any real strikers besides Heskey and Camara (and Aghahowa, who doesn't seem to play that much...and neither does Folan perhaps because he was hurt though he is no longer hurt)

[kingdom hoop]

cop yaself on. jewell would have saw more than enough of connolly on the training ground to be able to judge for himself whether he was capable of playing in the premiership...he sold him at the first available oppurtunity

It was the last day of the August transfer window that he was sold, and then Jewell rushed out and bought Wales' David Cotterill to replace him suggesting that Wigan didn't deem him entirely surplus to requirements. Maybe it was the first available opportunity to sell him but one would imagine it was because Connolly wanted to leave rather than Jewell forcing him out.

If Connolly starts the season well I'd have him in the squad for Czech/Slovakia. I reckon Stan hasn't dismissed him from consideration, he would know what Connolly is like from playing with him over the years but wants to have a look at the emerging talent in the US.

[theworm2345]

It was the last day of the August transfer window that he was sold, and then Jewell rushed out and bought Wales' David Cotterill to replace him suggesting that Wigan didn't deem him entirely surplus to requirements. Maybe it was the first available opportunity to sell him but one would imagine it was because Connolly wanted to leave rather than Jewell forcing him out.

If Connolly starts the season well I'd have him in the squad for Czech/Slovakia. I reckon Stan hasn't dismissed him from consideration, he would know what Connolly is like from playing with him over the years but wants to have a look at the emerging talent in the US.
I just dug this up
http://www.wiganlatics.premiumtv.co.uk/page/News/NewsDetail/0,,10429~877999,00.html

[reder]

I believe this means when Roy Keane buys in replacements for Connolly & others they won't be in the squad either.

No they wont. Perhaps im mistaken but I cant really think of the PL strikers which are available for him to buy which are also elligible to play for Ireland.

Personally, I dont think Keane can afford or will do a massive striker clean out at Sunderland. He may be able to afford one decent PL standard striker but also needs to invest in other areas around the pitch. The bulk of that squad are nowhere near good enough to keep Sunderland in the PL.