View Full Version : Irish players released by UK clubs
Gaillimh Al
16/05/2007, 7:26 PM
Byrne and David Forde both staying at Cardiff. With their other goalie being let go, Dave should hopefully get more opportunities next season.
Byrne and David Forde both staying at Cardiff. With their other goalie being let go, Dave should hopefully get more opportunities next season.
Cardiff are targeting a new goalie as top priority so I feel Forde will be number two there next year.
If you read the thread, you'll see why
And he certainly wasn't my top striker.
Suppose Dayl Murphy and Kevin Doyle are anolamies too?
We'll see how Byrne gets on next year now he looks to be staying at Cardiff.
It would say a lot though if he scored hatfuls in the League of Ireland yet couldn't break into this current Cardiff side. Swansea would beat 'em right now, and that's not personal bias. They could be relegation fodder next year, depends on who comes in and goes out there during the summer. Supposed to be a lot of new arrivals so they might be better next year but I doubt they'll be any more than a mid-table side.
So I suppose Serie A is crap because Shevchenko couldn't score hatfuls of goals in the Premiersh1t?
Cymro
16/05/2007, 10:32 PM
So I suppose Serie A is crap because Shevchenko couldn't score hatfuls of goals in the Premiersh1t?
Well, there's a bit of difference between playing, albeit somewhat irregularly, for the richest club in the world, and playing well on occasion (remember the goal he scored in the FA Cup against Spurs) and, in Byrne's case, being behind a former Newport County player in the pecking order at a pretty poor Cardiff side.
Shevchenko has the Premiership's best strikers to compete with, Byrne has a load ****e to compete with.
GavinZac
16/05/2007, 11:37 PM
Byrne has a load ****e to compete with.
Yeah, and he was given one opportunity, and he scored. Whats happened since then?
Risteard
17/05/2007, 12:09 AM
It would say a lot though if he scored hatfuls in the League of Ireland yet couldn't break into this current Cardiff side.
I wouldn't say he scored hatfuls but he was a class act alright.
Yeah, and he was given one opportunity, and he scored. Whats happened since then?
He got injured, then did nothing for 90 minutes in his comeback match in the FAW Premier Cup (which I saw). He hasn't played since, presumably because he isn't deemed good enough by the manager.
BohsPartisan
17/05/2007, 1:27 AM
It would say a lot though if he scored hatfuls in the League of Ireland yet couldn't break into this current Cardiff side.
So how is Cardiff's recent record in Europe? :confused:
Pablo Escobar
17/05/2007, 8:07 AM
So how is Cardiff's recent record in Europe? :confused:
Hey they haven't played bad in Europe anyway! :p
Magicme
17/05/2007, 8:14 AM
Monaghanman James Hand was released by Huddersfield and read in the Monaghan Post today that he is going to Shamrock Rovers.
As for Conlon, he was linked with the Drogs b4 but not sure what the story is now, dont think we are talking to him at the moment.
So how is Cardiff's recent record in Europe? :confused:
Well they haven't played for some 15 years, but they did once reach the semi-finals of the old Cup Winners' Cup. Not that I see what Europe has to do with any of this. The point is, if Byrne can't get a game at a poor Championship side (and especially if he subsequently returns to Ireland and proves prolific again) it shows that your league is not the same standard as the Championship.
Well they haven't played for some 15 years, but they did once reach the semi-finals of the old Cup Winners' Cup. Not that I see what Europe has to do with any of this. The point is, if Byrne can't get a game at a poor Championship side (and especially if he subsequently returns to Ireland and proves prolific again) it shows that your league is not the same standard as the Championship.
Have you the formula for that.......
lofty9
17/05/2007, 9:32 AM
He got injured, then did nothing for 90 minutes in his comeback match in the FAW Premier Cup (which I saw). He hasn't played since, presumably because he isn't deemed good enough by the manager.
He's been out injured for the past 4/5 weeks with ligament damge. I was talking to him in Dublin airport a few weeks ago. He's not the greatest trainer but is going to be giving his all in preseason to get up to the fitness of the others. He is confident it will work out for him.
RE: Cardiff's record in Europe , they tanked us 4 -0 on 1988! That was our first round of games with our great treble winning team.
Have you the formula for that.......
Yes.
Put simply, player X scores many goals in league A. Player X is obviously good enough to score plenty against defences in that league.
Player X then moves to league B, finds himself against new defenders, and fails to make the same impact.
It can be deduced that the defenders in league A are of lower standard than those in league B, and therefore league B is better, unless there are vast amounts more goals scored in general in league A than league B.
The Shevchenko thing is not comparing similar circumstances, as Shevchenko is playing at a club who tend to favour a lone striker and also have their league's best players. Move him to Arsenal or Liverpool and it would change I feel.
Steve Bruce
17/05/2007, 9:44 AM
Change the record....:rolleyes:
What from reality?
Are you saying Sunderland would struggle against any team on this island? Birmingham? Derby? Wolves? WBA? Southampton etc etc etc - Would they struggle?:rolleyes:
The Championship is a greater standard than the SPL let alone LOI.
Yes, the LOI is getting better and better, but there is a long, looonnnng way to go to reach Championship standard.
If you put together a squad of 20 in the LOI of your best players, You might live in the Championship, but you wouldn't be pushing for promotion.
He's been out injured for the past 4/5 weeks with ligament damge. I was talking to him in Dublin airport a few weeks ago. He's not the greatest trainer but is going to be giving his all in preseason to get up to the fitness of the others. He is confident it will work out for him.
RE: Cardiff's record in Europe , they tanked us 4 -0 on 1988! That was our first round of games with our great treble winning team.
I had not realised he was injured again. In which case, that casts a slightly different light on the situation.
We'll see how he gets on next year, though I expect plenty of new players to go to Cardiff in the summer. If they keep hold of Chopra and get another striker of proven quality in, I'd think he'd be a fringe player for much of the season as Chopra's place in the team is safe as houses.
Steve Bruce
17/05/2007, 9:51 AM
Where is Wes O'Hoolihan? He always impressed me when he played for Shelbourne.
What from reality?
Are you saying Sunderland would struggle against any team on this island? Birmingham? Derby? Wolves? WBA? Southampton etc etc etc - Would they struggle?:rolleyes:
The Championship is a greater standard than the SPL let alone LOI.
Yes, the LOI is getting better and better, but there is a long, looonnnng way to go to reach Championship standard.
If you put together a squad of 20 in the LOI of your best players, You might live in the Championship, but you wouldn't be pushing for promotion.
Thats a far cry from the point he argued though Steve. Your original point was
I think the step up from LOI(or IL) to the Championship in England is emense and only a few players on this island would be able to make the transition.
Now you're saying a full squad would survive in that league.
Nobody here truely belives we're anywhere near the standard of the championship as a whole, so please stop trying to argue against the POV nobody shares. What most posters have said is that the odd team (possibly Drogheda) could maybe survive in the championship and other teams have players who are good enough for that level. Which is the point you've just made yourself, so don't try and force an arguement where none exists
ifk101
17/05/2007, 9:54 AM
Where is Wes O'Hoolihan? He always impressed me when he played for Shelbourne.
Blackpool.
Steve Bruce
17/05/2007, 9:58 AM
Thats a far cry from the point he argued though Steve. Your original point was
Now you're saying a full squad would survive in that league.
Nobody here truely belives we're anywhere near the standard of the championship as a whole, so please stop trying to argue against the POV nobody shares. What most posters have said is that the odd team (possibly Drogheda) could maybe survive in the championship and other teams have players who are good enough for that level. Which is the point you've just made yourself, so don't try and force an arguement where none exists
1st of all Drogheda would get embarrassed in the Championship. I think it'sa laugh anyone would think that any taem on this island could live in the Championship. There's no one that good - or near it.
Also the word "maybe" is indicative that I am not convince that you could have a squad capable, but I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt. But if there was a squad, they would be a relegation struggling team. But it is all hypothetical.
one a side note. Has anyone got a comprehensive list of all players from the LOI who has went across the water to Scotland or England. Because it would be interesting to see how many actually have made a break through.
There are of course some notable ones especially Doyle, who is a great player.
Steve Bruce
17/05/2007, 10:00 AM
Blackpool.
He has been the best player I have seen on this island in the last few years. Good to see him doing well. I reckon a player of his calibre is definately capable of Championship standard.
ifk101
17/05/2007, 10:08 AM
He has been the best player I have seen on this island in the last few years. Good to see him doing well. I reckon a player of his calibre is definately capable of Championship standard.
Agree. Very talented player - technically he's capable of playing at a much higher standard than League One. But alas size does matter. If he only drank more milk when he was younger ....
Cymro
17/05/2007, 10:10 AM
But alas size does matter. If he only drank more milk when he was younger ....
Well, at least he managed to make it further than Accrington Stanley.....:D
gustavo
17/05/2007, 10:13 AM
one a side note. Has anyone got a comprehensive list of all players from the LOI who has went across the water to Scotland or England. Because it would be interesting to see how many actually have made a break through.
.
Off the top of my head from the last 2-3 years
Daryl Murphy
Doyle
Long
Forde
Danny Murphy
Dillon
Hawkins
Harris
Bennett
Ryan
McChrystal
O'Callaghan
Hoolihan
Byrne
Molloy
Keegan
around 10 of those are regular first teamer for their team , others can say better whether individual cases have been success or failure
Dodge
17/05/2007, 10:23 AM
Check the sticky at the top of this forum, and steve to counteract you maybe, I used possibly AND maybe when tlaking about Drogheda (if you want to be that pedantic...)
BohsPartisan
17/05/2007, 11:30 AM
The point is, if Byrne can't get a game at a poor Championship side (and especially if he subsequently returns to Ireland and proves prolific again) it shows that your league is not the same standard as the Championship.
Thats ridiculous. You're simply selectively picking the example that suits your arguement best. Stephen Ward only scored two goals for Bohs last season but he scored 3 in his first month with Wolves. I suppose you'll say now that Ward wasn't getting the service with us or something but I could reverse that around and say perhaps the players Byrne had around him at Shels were better than those at Cardiff. Kevin Doyle is more prolific in the Premiership than he was over here. I suppose this all adds up to show that while the LOI is not as good as the Championship, it is better than the Premiership and QED the Championship is better than the Premiership. Hopefully the powers that be realise this and Sunderland, Birmingham, Derby and WBA can look forward to Champions' League football next year.
BohsFans
17/05/2007, 1:12 PM
McChrystal
The Derry lad?
Who did he go to?
Thats ridiculous. You're simply selectively picking the example that suits your arguement best. Stephen Ward only scored two goals for Bohs last season but he scored 3 in his first month with Wolves. I suppose you'll say now that Ward wasn't getting the service with us or something but I could reverse that around and say perhaps the players Byrne had around him at Shels were better than those at Cardiff. Kevin Doyle is more prolific in the Premiership than he was over here. I suppose this all adds up to show that while the LOI is not as good as the Championship, it is better than the Premiership and QED the Championship is better than the Premiership. Hopefully the powers that be realise this and Sunderland, Birmingham, Derby and WBA can look forward to Champions' League football next year.
Ah, but Bohemians had a bad season last year, and likely scored few goals overall. On the other hand, Wolves would have been a side who would go on to make the play-offs in the Championship. Thus, Ward would get much more goalscoring opportunities at Wolves.
The same argument can be used to counter your theory that Byrne had better players around him at Shelbourne. They were simply a team that dominated their league and created more chances than Cardiff do.
Secondly, Ward, Byrne, O'Callaghan, Doyle etc. (all the players who've gone to the English leagues recently) have all been top-level players in the League of Ireland. So naturally, if the two leagues are on a par, you'd expect all of them to be top top players at Championship level also.
Of those four named Doyle and Ward have established themselves at Championship (and Premiership in Doyle's case) level, while Byrne has not played much for Cardiff, and O'Callaghan last time I checked was making sub appearances off the bench for Ipswich.
Now the other Irish lad Hoolahan who plays for Blackpool is a very good player at our level (League One), just as he was in Ireland. I would the standard of the top teams over there is more like that.
Though, that said, really I haven't seen enough to form a real opinion. I am trying to watch as much as possible though, and reading and posting here has got me interested. I may go and watch a game during the UK off-season.
Risteard
17/05/2007, 2:56 PM
ASo naturally, if the two leagues are on a par, you'd expect . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Again, are people claiming this?
I think the claim is that 2 or 3 eL teams could survive in the Championship.
City and Shels the past few years and Pats and Drogs at the moment.
gustavo
17/05/2007, 3:02 PM
The Derry lad?
Who did he go to?
Partick THistle
lofty9
17/05/2007, 3:06 PM
The Derry lad?
Who did he go to?
Partick Thistle. He's now a free agent. He returned home as he hated living in Glasgow.
Steve Bruce
17/05/2007, 3:44 PM
Again, are people claiming this?
I think the claim is that 2 or 3 eL teams could survive in the Championship.
City and Shels the past few years and Pats and Drogs at the moment.
Is there no screw loose smilies?:D
You want the truth? You can't handle the truth
half_full
17/05/2007, 5:08 PM
i think the top LoI sides would hold their own in the championship, maybe not the IL teams however...
BohsFans
17/05/2007, 7:32 PM
Was on the radio earlier that Dicker and Kavanagh have defo been released by Birmingham. They are expected to re-join UCD.
DmanDmythDledge
17/05/2007, 8:10 PM
Was on the radio earlier that Dicker and Kavanagh have defo been released by Birmingham. They are expected to re-join UCD.
Dicker was only on loan at Birmingham so was never released. Highly unlikely that he will still be at UCD for the rest of the season though.
Wouldn't be surprised to see Kavanagh at a different Dublin club.
Again, are people claiming this?
I think the claim is that 2 or 3 eL teams could survive in the Championship.
City and Shels the past few years and Pats and Drogs at the moment.
Well I certainly can't rule it out as I've just seen one game of yours, your cup final this year.
However going on that game and the 1,000-odd League games I've seen over the years I'd say the standard would be about the middle of League One.
It would be better than the relegation fodder in our league but probably not on the level of teams like Nottingham Forest, Bristol City, etc.
With Leeds coming down next year they will be strong so I expect our league to be stronger next year as well. Hard to see the EL sides getting promoted from L1 to the Championship in the hypothetical scenario that they joined the Coca-Cola leagues, especially if you assume their average attendance were to stay the same. They'd struggle to compete on a financial level more than anything else.
Again must stress though I've only seen one game. Would be interested in watching some more, do they show matches on Sky?
Well I certainly can't rule it out as I've just seen one game of yours, your cup final this year.
Jesus! That game was played in gale force winds. In no way wsaa that representative of the skill levels in the league. It was impossible to play football. Glad you enjoyed it but still
DmanDmythDledge
18/05/2007, 7:57 PM
However going on that game and the 1,000-odd League games I've seen over the years I'd say the standard would be about the middle of League One.
Given that Wes Hoolihan has appeared to be far better than most in League One I'd say that's off the mark. Top half in eircom Premier would beat almost all sides in League One and a few Championship IMO. Drogs, Pats and Cork would be pushing for top half Championship.
Given that Wes Hoolihan has appeared to be far better than most in League One I'd say that's off the mark. Top half in eircom Premier would beat almost all sides in League One and a few Championship IMO. Drogs, Pats and Cork would be pushing for top half Championship.
He got into the League One team of the year so he is very good but individuals are not always a brilliant indicator of league strength. It's fair to say the Welsh Premier is a fair bit off the standard of League One yet we've signed a couple of lads from there and they've done well in our league.
But having seen both the vast majority of Welsh Premier players would be Conference standard or lower. Hence the problem with your argument. Yes Hoolahan has done very well in our league but I gather he was a very good player in the League of Ireland too, so it doesn't prove that your league is better than ours.
If your average League of Ireland players started signing for teams in our league and recieved rave reviews I would probably change my tune. Call me a skeptical old fart, if you like. ;)
Incidentally, I think some sides in League One are a lot better than some in the Championship. Forest, for example. They pass the ball much better than the likes of Southend.
Kildare Lad
18/05/2007, 10:43 PM
Yeah I think Cymro is right, Wes Hoolahan is one of the better players in League One but he was also one of the better players in the League of Ireland. So you cant say the League of Ireland is better than League One judging on individual players. I think that Pats would be good enough for the lower end of championship football possibly, but teams such as Cork, Drogheda, Derry and Bohs top half of League One.
Like for example, I would imagine Kildare County would be Conference level (at best) but they would put up a fight agaisnt the likes of Longford, Bray, UCD who are in the Premier over here, so it really does vary..
Id really love to see a full strength Pats side take on a full strength Chamionship side to give us a better idea of how our teams would fare in England....
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