View Full Version : Election 2007: Is Bertie a liability?
PDs not happy with Bertie, not unhappy enough to pull out of government, voters confused...
FF Election campaign is clearly focused around Bertie as he plastered across every lamp post. Will this back fire or will his supporting increase again as he is hounded by the media about suspicious payments?
BohsPartisan
08/05/2007, 10:59 AM
I was listening to the radio and yeaterday and there was a big furore about leaked information regarding Bertie's finances. The media focus however was on who leaked the information - as if it was bad form to "rat out" Bertie. FF completely focussed on calling it a smear campaign and trying to discover "the rat". WTF? The real issue is as plain as day - that theres a fair chance our Taoiseach is as crooked as a lamp-post that's had a run in with a boy racer.
The real issue is as plain as day - that theres a fair chance our Taoiseach is as crooked as a lamp-post that's had a run in with a boy racer.
I think the media were interested in the accusations as the politicians giving them good quotes about it. I think it will go back to the issue at hand very quickly now.
Last year he got a boost in the polls when the media went after him so will be interesting to see if he affected this time. Once the first scratch appears on the teflon is]ts time to replace. ;)
Risteard
08/05/2007, 11:16 AM
A conspiracy theorist could surmise that FF are creating the leaks and Bertie will give it another week before clearing up all the questions to Brian dobson or Pat Kenny and purr about how terrible it is to be smeared like this after all he's done for the country and how his family have been dragged into it.
If so, they could be hanging on until Enda calls for "insirs to these viry sirius quistins is i mitter iv irgency"
jebus
08/05/2007, 12:36 PM
Fianna Fail will do everything they can tp turn this around and point the finger of blame at Enda Kenny. FF can't run a campaign based on major issues because they have made a balls of most of them, and so are resorting to a dirty tricks campaign. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it until election time, if Fianna Fail are voted back in the last bit of pride I have in this country will fly out the window
A conspiracy theorist could surmise that FF are creating the leaks and Bertie will give it another week before clearing up all the questions to Brian dobson or Pat Kenny and purr about how terrible it is to be smeared like this after all he's done for the country and how his family have been dragged into it.
Well considering established FF politicians like Mary O'Rourke went public the last time stating that she thought the leaks were from within FF it's not that much of a leap.
Don't blame FF particularly, I blame the 40%(ish) of the electorate that fall for this kind of thing. The same gobsh1tes that still stick up for Haughey...
bennocelt
08/05/2007, 12:52 PM
eoghan harris in the sunday indorag blames SF for the leaks, normally i wouldnt read his tripe (or that paper), but this time he could be right, wouldnt put it past the Shinners to be up to tricks like this
Calcio Jack
08/05/2007, 12:54 PM
The other question is whether McDowell is a liability for the PDs... I reckon he is , on the basis that he is somewhat like the boy who cried wolf... hard to see any future for the PDs and indeed suspect that McD will havwe a hell of a fight to hang on to his own seat.
As for Bertie, FF seem to be now playing a very high risk game... they are at every opportunity now peddaling the line that Bertie is the victim of a smear campaign of leakes coming from FG. Was interesting to hear Bertie's brother quoted along the lines of "..senior officials from FG are responsible for the leakes...but I've no proof..." this is going to get dirtier and the hope for FF is that they can play the " poor ol' Bertie sure he was going through a tough time in the mid 90's.." as against focusing on the currently known facts :
(1) He received "dig outs"/loans of approx €170k
(2) Michael Wall made a loss on the sale of the house Bertie
(3) Michael Wall named Bertie in his will as the beneficary of the house
(4) Parts of the conveancing file covering the sale of the house are now missing.
(5) bertie received a "dig out" of £28k which on the day it was lodged to Ms Larkin's account equated to exactly $45k
(6) At the time he was involved in providing detials of his asets to thecourts as part of his separation case , he was allowing Ms Larkin to hold almost £70k of his money in accounts solely in her name. He also was keeping £50k "under his matress".
(7) Since Bertie's tell all interview with Brian Dobson last Autumn, despite his answering that he had revealed all details of all monies he "received" during the mid 1990's it now transoires that he hadn't mentioned another £30k.
So those are the facts, for me the real question is are they acceptable or put another way is it ok for our former Minister of Finance and current leader of the Government to be involed in such a highly unusual series of financial transactions. I don't think so however it remains to be seen whether the majority of voters agree
eoghan harris in the sunday indorag blames SF for the leaks, normally i wouldnt read his tripe (or that paper), but this time he could be right, wouldnt put it past the Shinners to be up to tricks like this
Eh, McDowell said he spoke to Jody Corcoran of the Sindo to get more information - pity INM is so far up Bertie's hole it won't publish what it's got. Laughable to suggest that the Sunday Mail would do SF's bidding.
The irony of it being Frank Connolly that is scooping all these stories is probably lost on McDowell though, given the shameful way he leaked (unproven) allegations about him to discredit him just as he commenced an investigation into the Thornton Hall purchase...
eoghan harris in the sunday indorag blames SF for the leaks, normally i wouldnt read his tripe (or that paper), but this time he could be right, wouldnt put it past the Shinners to be up to tricks like this
Not sure why he thinks it would be SF but wasn't a SF Dublin TD caught with details of other candidates from surveillance?
I don't think McDowell is a liability for the PDs as lets be honest Harney was hardly a positive for them. I think they get their votes for individuals & overall party policies.
OneRedArmy
08/05/2007, 1:54 PM
hard to see any future for the PDs and indeed suspect that McD will havwe a hell of a fight to hang on to his own seat.
I live Dublin South East and I'd be very surprised if McDowell lost his seat. Very, very surprised.
He was top in 1st preferences in 2002 and added to that the current FF TD, Eoin Ryan, is not standing as he has been elected to the European Parliament.
I would think John Gormley, McDowell and Ruairi Quinn are shoe-ins, with Chris Andrews of FF edging out Lucinda (election totty) Creighton of FG for the 4th seat.
Lucinda (election totty) Creighton of FG for the 4th seat.
Seen her posters :cool:
OneRedArmy
08/05/2007, 3:08 PM
Seen her posters :cool:A bit more oompah loompah-like on the posters than in the flesh. Bad fake tan job (as parodied by Blogorrah a few weeks back).
Anne Marie Martin (FG) is currently setting the pulses racing amongst red blooded voters in Dublin South Central apparently
Poor Student
08/05/2007, 3:24 PM
Anne Marie Martin (FG) is currently setting the pulses racing amongst red blooded voters in Dublin South Central apparently
She looks terrified in her picture.
Pete, was that O'Snodaigh who was caught with the details of other candidates?
passinginterest
08/05/2007, 3:29 PM
Anne Marie Martin (FG) is currently setting the pulses racing amongst red blooded voters in Dublin South Central apparently
She looks impressive on the posters, but, this appears to be an act of the magic airbrush. Closer inspection of other FG canvassing rubbish in the letterbox shows her to be far from a pretty sight. :p
Poor Student
08/05/2007, 3:32 PM
Given that Gay Mitchell won't be contending his seat I was wondering if her posters will be the tie breaker between her and Catherine Byrne. FG will only take one seat and it's an open fight between the two of them with little to differentiate them.
Given that Gay Mitchell won't be contending his seat I was wondering if her posters will be the tie breaker between her and Catherine Byrne. FG will only take one seat and it's an open fight between the two of them with little to differentiate them.
Byrne will have a fairly large Inchicore/Kilmainham following and being a former lord mayor would seem to have the edge.
Poor Student
08/05/2007, 3:43 PM
Byrne will have a fairly large Inchicore/Kilmainham following and being a former lord mayor would seem to have the edge.
Is that where's she's from? Most candidates don't bother canvasing around the plusher parts of the constituency so I never have a clue as to how to differentiate them within party lines.
passinginterest
08/05/2007, 3:59 PM
Is that where's she's from? Most candidates don't bother canvasing around the plusher parts of the constituency so I never have a clue as to how to differentiate them within party lines.
In the little newspaper style flyer they sent around recently it was dominated by Byrne. She seems to be the number one within the party anyway. I think I'm going to go Labour 1-2, Green 3, and maybe FG 4-5. At this stage I just think change is for the better. Although I'd have about 0% faith in FG same as FF.
passinginterest
08/05/2007, 4:01 PM
Just realised this is gone totally off topic.
Was thinking the same thing about it being a big mistake having Bertie on all the posters. Like many I have a feeling he's going to come out of this smelling of roses and have a massive surge of public support in the days leading up to the election.
Bald Student
08/05/2007, 4:15 PM
I'm not so sure. I thought up untill about a month ago that FF were gonners but now the election seems to be almost turning into a referendum on whether you like Bertie. I think that's to the disadvantage of FG and Lab because they had the election won on the important issues.
If stronger evidance comes out over the 2 weeks or if the opposition can prove that the PDs are or someone in FF is behind the leaks Bertie will loose. If this rumbles on like it is at the moment for 2 more weeks or if Bertie can show his innocence FF could well come out of this looking good.
She looks impressive on the posters, but, this appears to be an act of the magic airbrush. Closer inspection of other FG canvassing rubbish in the letterbox shows her to be far from a pretty sight. :p
Disappointing to hear that. Only seen her posters. She must have used same air brush as Bertie & Enda. :p
I believe it was O'Snodaigh but can't remember the exact details. Maybe he was just hiding in the long grass.
btw please post Election Totty pictures here (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=22183&page=373) :)
republicofwhite
14/05/2007, 8:01 PM
I'll attempt to veer this slightly back on topic... Although not in relation to financial irregularities... I met Bertie about two weeks ago and was distinctly unimpressed, granted I did catch him off guard. Tongue in cheek, I wondered why he chose to host the GE smack in the middle of pretty much every university's exams across the nation and teased him whether it was a tactical maneouvre and part of his overall plan. He didn't really know what to say and just kept asking me where I was based, when I'd come up with another conundrum for him. You could see he was just as unimpressed with me as I was with him. I heard a succinct analogy re: Bertie...He's like a Chinese Takeaway... At the time its very pleasing and satisfying, but as soon as your finished with it/him you feel sick, unsatisfied and uneasy. I implore anyone to read the latest issue of Mongrel. Wonderful expose article on the bureaucratic pathway of getting to Bertie by Eoin Butler. Not so much frightening, but quite enlightening!
kingdom hoop
14/05/2007, 8:09 PM
I'll attempt to veer this slightly back on topic... Although not in relation to financial irregularities... I met Bertie about two weeks ago and was distinctly unimpressed, granted I did catch him off guard. Tongue in cheek, I wondered why he chose to host the GE smack in the middle of pretty much every university's exams across the nation and teased him whether it was a tactical maneouvre and part of his overall plan. He didn't really know what to say and just kept asking me where I was based, when I'd come up with another conundrum for him. You could see he was just as unimpressed with me as I was with him. I heard a succinct analogy re: Bertie...He's like a Chinese Takeaway... At the time its very pleasing and satisfying, but as soon as your finished with it/him you feel sick, unsatisfied and uneasy. I implore anyone to read the latest issue of Mongrel. Wonderful expose article on the bureaucratic pathway of getting to Bertie by Eoin Butler. Not so much frightening, but quite enlightening!
:D
Great post! Wonderful flow, broad vocabulary usage, made a strong point and entertaining to boot. With such precocious aptitude I wouldn't be surprised if Mongrel came a knocking at your door! I'd pay to read that, only Mongrel is free so I won't have to!
Calcio Jack
15/05/2007, 4:10 PM
Bertie has finished delivering his speech in the House of commons. Not a bad effort on his part....but IMO he made one major error and he has let down badly the memory of millions of Irish men and women... he said "...emigration was for too long a recurring theme of the great Irish saga, from the horrors of the Great Famine to dark economic times in the 20th Centuary..."
IMO such a passing reference to the famine is a disgrace... I know it is in the past etc but I feel that he should of had the confidence and the decency to state clearly that the British were the cause...sure we have moved on but a historical fact is a fact. The British, every time a member of the Japanese Royal family visit the UK often ask why don't they apologise for
the treatment of British soldiers and civilians during WW2... I think we are long overdue such an apology and our outgoing Tshock should of done more today , regretfully he let us own.
Noticed in my constituency that some of the "Bertie's Team" posters have been taken down and replaced with diamond shaped boardds with just the names of the candidates.
Poor Student
15/05/2007, 4:43 PM
IMO such a passing reference to the famine is a disgrace... I know it is in the past etc but I feel that he should of had the confidence and the decency to state clearly that the British were the cause...sure we have moved on but a historical fact is a fact. The British, every time a member of the Japanese Royal family visit the UK often ask why don't they apologise for
the treatment of British soldiers and civilians during WW2... I think we are long overdue such an apology and our outgoing Tshock should of done more today , regretfully he let us own.
I think you're well off the mark here. If the British government would like to apologise for policies which lent to the severity of the famine, then that's welcome but it's not the Taoiseach's place to create open conflict about the matter in such a time of reconciliation and progress.
I think you're well off the mark here. If the British government would like to apologise for policies which lent to the severity of the famine, then that's welcome but it's not the Taoiseach's place to create open conflict about the matter in such a time of reconciliation and progress.
I did not hear the speech but agree with that comment. It would be insulting to raise the issue on such an invite when he has had numerous other opportunities to raise.
Bertie has finished delivering his speech in the House of commons. Not a bad effort on his part....but IMO he made one major error and he has let down badly the memory of millions of Irish men and women... he said "...emigration was for too long a recurring theme of the great Irish saga, from the horrors of the Great Famine to dark economic times in the 20th Centuary..."
IMO such a passing reference to the famine is a disgrace... I know it is in the past etc but I feel that he should of had the confidence and the decency to state clearly that the British were the cause...sure we have moved on but a historical fact is a fact. The British, every time a member of the Japanese Royal family visit the UK often ask why don't they apologise for
the treatment of British soldiers and civilians during WW2... I think we are long overdue such an apology and our outgoing Tshock should of done more today , regretfully he let us own.
Tony Blair already apologized a few years back. I think you'll find the cause was actually potato blight. The British reaction didn’t help.
Calcio Jack
16/05/2007, 6:57 AM
Tony Blair already apologized a few years back. I think you'll find the cause was actually potato blight. The British reaction didn’t help.
Wow..talk about revisionism.... sure the potato crop failed because of blight... the fact that millions were then allowed to starve was the result of inaction by the British....
I must of missed Blair's apology.... but still feel that Bertie should of said something stronger...was not looking for him to cause conflict...sure he was able to mention murder of Aiery Neive and indeed referenced black and tan killings in Croker.... just feel he had an opportunity to point out that despite the fact that 3 million died in the famine and the cause was British inaction today as nations we have reached a position of great friendliness etc... I think if we are now mature "neighbours/friends" we should also have the maturity on both sides to recognise our chequered past and as part of doing that I feel he could of honoured the millions that died... it would of also acted as a refernce point for many British people who IMO have no idea as to the horrific severity of the famine and thus don't understand what was one of the main planks of motivation for generations of Irish men/women for their "dislike" of Britain... so we're all entitled to our opinion but for me I felt let down by Bertie... but sure why am I surprised when he is a man who appears to be hold more concern about the goings on in Old Trafford rather than the fact that in the so-called great sucessful Ireland to which he referred yesterday 1 in 5 of our citizens live in poverty and the gap between the rich and poor in Ireland has risen by 270% during the last 10 years ie the period during which Bertie has been Taoisceach .... so hopefully yesterday was another notch on Bertie's lap of honour before he retires to concentrate on his tax affairs.
Wow..talk about revisionism.... sure the potato crop failed because of blight... the fact that millions were then allowed to starve was the result of inaction by the British....
I must of missed Blair's apology.... but still feel that Bertie should of said something stronger...was not looking for him to cause conflict...sure he was able to mention murder of Aiery Neive and indeed referenced black and tan killings in Croker.... just feel he had an opportunity to point out that despite the fact that 3 million died in the famine and the cause was British inaction today as nations we have reached a position of great friendliness etc... I think if we are now mature "neighbours/friends" we should also have the maturity on both sides to recognise our chequered past and as part of doing that I feel he could of honoured the millions that died... it would of also acted as a refernce point for many British people who IMO have no idea as to the horrific severity of the famine and thus don't understand what was one of the main planks of motivation for generations of Irish men/women for their "dislike" of Britain... so we're all entitled to our opinion but for me I felt let down by Bertie... but sure why am I surprised when he is a man who appears to be hold more concern about the goings on in Old Trafford rather than the fact that in the so-called great sucessful Ireland to which he referred yesterday 1 in 5 of our citizens live in poverty and the gap between the rich and poor in Ireland has risen by 270% during the last 10 years ie the period during which Bertie has been Taoisceach .... so hopefully yesterday was another notch on Bertie's lap of honour before he retires to concentrate on his tax affairs.
That was a party political broadcast on behalf of the rake up the past party. Maybe its time you moved on. You are using the famine & those deaths to further your political issues, shame on you.You obviously have an axe to grind with Ahern. Use the ballot box.
Calcio Jack
16/05/2007, 7:33 AM
That was a party political broadcast on behalf of the rake up the past party. Maybe its time you moved on. You are using the famine & those deaths to further your political issues, shame on you.You obviously have an axe to grind with Ahern. Use the ballot box.
Sure do have an axe to grind.... the one about him letting down the memory of those who died in the famine and for that I make no apology ... But if you and others are happy with the content of what he said, good for you ,doesn't mean I have to be. So no need to tell me to move on or dare say I'm using the deaths of my and others forefathers to further my political issues... I'd of made the same comments if a similar speech was made by any member of any party.
bennocelt
16/05/2007, 9:15 AM
[QUOTE=Ringo;686636]. I think you'll find the cause was actually potato blight.QUOTE]
:rolleyes: and africans are dying of famine cause there is absolutely no food in africa, i suppose
GavinZac
16/05/2007, 9:19 AM
:rolleyes: and africans are dying of famine cause there is absolutely no food in africa, i suppose
And of course, the monetary and logistical realities of Ireland-Britain in the 1800s is absolutely the same as those in africa today. I suppose.
And of course, the monetary and logistical realities of Ireland-Britain in the 1800s is absolutely the same as those in africa today. I suppose.
Not too different actually.
Economist (I think) at the time reported that the Irish famine had a positive effect on the British economic situation.
Exploitation of another country on a genocidal scale for economic gain...
Will Bertie get a boost in the polls from the House of Commons speech?
Erstwhile Bóz
16/05/2007, 12:58 PM
Will Bertie get a boost in the polls from the House of Commons speech?
He only gets a boost if he admits to serious ethical wrongdoing, so no.
Sure do have an axe to grind.... the one about him letting down the memory of those who died in the famine and for that I make no apology ... But if you and others are happy with the content of what he said, good for you ,doesn't mean I have to be. So no need to tell me to move on or dare say I'm using the deaths of my and others forefathers to further my political issues... I'd of made the same comments if a similar speech was made by any member of any party.
Most of the Irish with money did nothing, what about them?
Not too different actually.
Economist (I think) at the time reported that the Irish famine had a positive effect on the British economic situation.
Exploitation of another country on a genocidal scale for economic gain...
Would would America be the place it is now not for the irish Famine. Ameriaca probably gained most.
Sure do have an axe to grind.... the one about him letting down the memory of those who died in the famine and for that I make no apology ... But if you and others are happy with the content of what he said, good for you ,doesn't mean I have to be. So no need to tell me to move on or dare say I'm using the deaths of my and others forefathers to further my political issues... I'd of made the same comments if a similar speech was made by any member of any party.
:rolleyes: . if everyone on these islands had your chip, we'd never move on.Not everything that went wrong in this country, can be blamed on the British.
osarusan
16/05/2007, 4:25 PM
Ameriaca probably gained most.
Sounds like a south American football player. :D
"Ameriaca scored a 75th minute winner for River Plate.........."
Raheny Red
16/05/2007, 7:45 PM
Noticed in my constituency that some of the "Bertie's Team" posters have been taken down and replaced with diamond shaped boardds with just the names of the candidates.
In my area above Larry O'Toole's posters there are now tri-colous. Easily 20 of them in my estate alone!
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