This forum

[pconnor]

Just like your ground, only about 5 people in it.

Sorry to be bitchy, but I hope UCD get relegated. Not a bad side this season. I'm usually one who says that performances on the pitch are what count.....but UCD bring nothing to this league.

I noticed when you came to Drogheda last week that only about 2 people jumped up at the end to celebrate what was a good and vital win for you. So being generous I will estimate that there was about 10 UCD supporters there. Irish clubs need money and gate receipts are a hugh part of that. You guys do nothing to help in this department. I think a place in the premier is better deserved by Galway or Sligo or from a Drogheda point of view having Dundalk back would be good for the bank balance.

[UCD_4_Life]

I honestly don't know where to start.

We bring nothing to this league? We bring as much as anyone else does the fact that we are here and Galway and Sligo aren't shows that.

So what if we don't have as much fans as other clubs, so just because we don't we should give up?

I would rather have our proper fans than some of the scum that that "supports" clubs like Rovers and Pat's.

[hayser]

What i think sundays results will be:

Cork 3-1 UCD
Drogs 2-0 Us
Bohs 1-1 Derry

Well thats what i hope anyway.

GOING DOWN GOING DOWN GOING DOWN......etc etc

[Schumi]

Yawn, yawn, yawn


Originally posted by pconnor
Irish clubs need money and gate receipts are a hugh part of that. Not sure who Hugh is but gate receipts are a minimal part of any well run club's finances (maybe that's part of Drogheda's problem).

[@ndy]

I dunno man, i've heard Kev say that before, but surely the gate receipts should be what keeps the club afloat on a weekly expesnses basis, ie, wages etc?

[Macy]

Originally posted by Schumi
Not sure who Hugh is but gate receipts are a minimal part of any well run club's finances (maybe that's part of Drogheda's problem).

Much as you may dislike it, but gate receipts are still very important to clubs cash flow - 1000 fans @ €10 = €10,000. Which is extremely important to all clubs, but particularly the smaller ones.

You must admit that you bring sod all to away games, so contribute very little to the league overall financially as compared to Galway, Harps, Waterford who have at least a few hundred at away games in the premier (Harps and Galway certainly did at Longford even in their relegation seasons).

Add the fact that you are invariable the least attractive home match for whoever your opposition are (mainly because of your lack of support, and therefore the lack of atmosphere generation), then you should be able to see where people are coming from....


That's before I even start on the injustice of the scholarship system/ Government subsidy you get...

[@ndy]

The way i see it, the scholarship system is our only lifeline, and in this way we do contribute a lot to the league. We manage to attract young players who may otherwise seek employment abroad to stay at home and play in the eL, and ultimately feed them to bigger clubs.

With the disadvantage UCD has of being in a middle class suburb where people don't really relish the thought of heading down in the rain to see UCD vs Scumrock Rovers etc, and the fact that this massively dents gates, then i think the scholarship programme is entirely fair.

As for Govt subsidy, i have no idea what the story is with this and why we gain...but i would like to know so if you could post it/pm it?

[UCD_4_Life]

I can see where people are coming from but the fact is: Small home gates are our problem not yours that there's no atmosphere is beside the point. (And debatable anyway)

If clubs were being run properly then the fact that they miss out on E300 (in gate receipts) wouldn't matter either.

As I said I can see where people are coming from but I don't think that it's right that people should wish relegation on us just because of E900 a season.

[Macy]

Originally posted by @ndy
The way i see it, the scholarship system is our only lifeline
Exactly that is what I was getting at with the Government Subsidy - you are robbing other clubs of talent and the only way you can do that is through this system.


Originally posted by @ndy
and in this way we do contribute a lot to the league. We manage to attract young players who may otherwise seek employment abroad to stay at home and play in the eL, and ultimately feed them to bigger clubs.
But there is no reason why the Scholarship couldn't work in a similar way to the GAA scholarship - in that the players play intercollege matches with you, but still retain their home club... The scholarship system is supposed to be for the benefit of the players and the country as a whole, whereas now it is mainly for the benefit of one club. The talk the other day of Robbie Doyle losing his place on his course if he goes to Bohs is a prime example of what is wrong for the system.... with all due respect, is his football better served at Bohs or ye? European football vs at best mid table?


Originally posted by @ndy
With the disadvantage UCD has of being in a middle class suburb where people don't really relish the thought of heading down in the rain to see UCD vs Scumrock Rovers etc, and the fact that this massively dents gates, then i think the scholarship programme is entirely fair.
Don't see how this makes it fair? Longford are in a big GAA county, so have trouble attracting people to the games - why don't we get the benefits to help subsidise the club? The fact that even against one of the biggest names in football you can't attract a gate is exactly why people want you down...


Originally posted by UCD_4_Life
I can see where people are coming from but the fact is: Small home gates are our problem not yours that there's no atmosphere is beside the point. (And debatable anyway)

If clubs were being run properly then the fact that they miss out on E300 (in gate receipts) wouldn't matter either.

As I said I can see where people are coming from but I don't think that it's right that people should wish relegation on us just because of E900 a season.
You totally missed what I am saying - €300 from away fans, and then not unrealistically another €600 from home fans who just wouldn't come out for a game against youse.... Rightly or wrongly home crowds are down no matter who you are away too.... When clubs haven't the benefits of the scholarship system every cent counts.....

[@ndy]

The scholarship system is supposed to be for the benefit of the players and the country as a whole, whereas now it is mainly for the benefit of one club. The talk the other day of Robbie Doyle losing his place on his course if he goes to Bohs is a prime example of what is wrong for the system.... with all due respect, is his football better served at Bohs or ye? European football vs at best mid table?

It's his choice. He can't have everything. He's now on his way to having a qualification as well as having been able to develop his football in the eircom league. Bohs wouldn't have touched him last season. Now that he's had the chance to develop and show people what talent he has, he's a highly thought of player.

[pineapple stu]

you are robbing other clubs of talent and the only way you can do that is through this system.

Well go and form a link with a college yourselves then! Can't be that hard to do - Bohs have already done it!


talk the other day of Robbie Doyle losing his place on his course if he goes to Bohs is a prime example of what is wrong for the system....

There's been no such talk - not on this message board anyway. What was being said (or implied anyway) was that if he is in the middle of a degree, then he would feel a commitment to the college and the club to stay at the club during his studies. I don't see how there can be any compulsion on him to stay just because he's doing a course, and certainly it wasn't mentioned here.


€300 from away fans, and then not unrealistically another €600 from home fans who just wouldn't come out for a game against youse.... Rightly or wrongly home crowds are down no matter who you are away too

And I suppose Bray are much better?!


UCD bring nothing to this league

A unique opportunity for young Irish players to resurrect their careers and, more importantly, their education? (Robbie Doyle, Alan Cawley, Paul O'Mara, not to mention the hoardes who have come through from Ireland and are now playing for other clubs in the league)
A side who can actually play decent, passing, attractive football? (Look at Pat's, the worst offenders of the lot!)
Progressively bigger home crowds and better atmosphere? It mightn't be huge yet, but we're certainly going in the right direction - the club had record league attendances two weeks in a row this year, has a new ground in the pipeline (i.e. in the next year or two), has links with many local schoolboy teams, etc. Why want us kicked out now when we're starting to progress? Realistically, away crowds are always poor because of the Friday nights, so the ten UCD fans in Drogheda (I couldn't make it, so I'm going on that figure) isn't much worse, financially speaking, than the 50 Bohs fans who the Derry supporters are always whingeing about.


from a Drogheda point of view having Dundalk back would be good for the bank balance.

Sod Drogheda! (No offence, UCD_4_life!) They got themselves into their mess by spending ridiculous and unsustainable amounts of money - why should we get relegated and Dundalk get promoted because of their inability to keep control of their finances? And why do Galway and Sligo "deserve" a place in the Premier? Nobody does. You have to earn it. Galway had it last season and made a mess of it - tough.

[fosterdollar]

Originally posted by pineapple stu

to resurrect their careers and, more importantly, their education

actually the point is that the eL should be theoretically more important than education. A true professional player plays for a club on the merits of that club's performance, structure, finance, etc. - not because he is enticed there by the prospect of gaining a college qualification while playing.

Other clubs shouldnt have to go looking for ties with other colleges. Just because thats the way UCD wants it doesnt mean thats the way it has to be for everyone else.

[UCD_4_Life]

Originally posted by Magoo
actually the point is that the eL should be theoretically more important than education. A true professional player plays for a club on the merits of that club's performance, structure, finance, etc. - not because he is enticed there by the prospect of gaining a college qualification while playing.

Other clubs shouldnt have to go looking for ties with other colleges. Just because thats the way UCD wants it doesnt mean thats the way it has to be for everyone else.

So we're supposed to give up the system? Basically bugger ourselves and play in the First Division forever?

Give me a break. If Longford were the only team to have it then you'd be happy it's just because you don't that you're moaning.

As I say what do you expect us to do? Give up our only advantage over clubs just because opposing fans aren't happy about it?

There's nothing to stop other clubs doing it and if it was so big an advantage then everyone else would've done it already.

[fosterdollar]

it's just one of the arguments. For along time now there has been general dissatisfaction among supporters with the appearance of UCD in the League of Ireland PREMIER Division.

[SÓC]

Cork City have a link with college and are able to benfit from it attracting players like Colin P O'Brien, Alan Carey, Alan Bennett and many others in our U-21 squad.

UCD are not the only people exploiting this route, why should they be punished for being the best at doing it?

I used to live for a while in Blackrock, in the general d4 region. It amazed me that so many people didnt even know that UCD played in the premier division, it is a real rugby stronghold, many people there dont even pretend to support a premiership team. In my experience, having also lived in West Cork, your typical D4 rugby fan is far less likely to go to a soccer match than your average GAA bogger. IMO it is v. hard for UCD to attract support in the area they are in.

What UCD should do, and if they succeded they would have great support is to get the students of the college to come along and support them in proper numbers.

IMO UCD bring more to the league than what Kilkenny did last year.

[UCD_4_Life]

Originally posted by SÓCcfc
Cork City have a link with college and are able to benfit from it attracting players like Colin P O'Brien, Alan Carey, Alan Bennett and many others in our U-21 squad.

UCD are not the only people exploiting this route, why should they be punished for being the best at doing it?

I used to live for a while in Blackrock, in the general d4 region. It amazed me that so many people didnt even know that UCD played in the premier division, it is a real rugby stronghold, many people there dont even pretend to support a premiership team. In my experience, having also lived in West Cork, your typical D4 rugby fan is far less likely to go to a soccer match than your average GAA bogger. IMO it is v. hard for UCD to attract support in the area they are in.

What UCD should do, and if they succeded they would have great support is to get the students of the college to come along and support them in proper numbers.

IMO UCD bring more to the league than what Kilkenny did last year.

Finally. Someone who supports another team that doesn't want rid of us.

I feel like we're Man Utd only without the trophies, players, supporters, stadium, money, history etc.

[Macy]

Originally posted by Magoo
actually the point is that the eL should be theoretically more important than education. A true professional player plays for a club on the merits of that club's performance, structure, finance, etc. - not because he is enticed there by the prospect of gaining a college qualification while playing
Not quite my point - I think there should be a scholarship system, but it shouldn't be tied to just one club.... The BogBallers get to play with their own club, and the focus for them playing UCD is the Sigerson.... Why can't it be the same for proper football.....


Originally posted by UCD_4_Life
So we're supposed to give up the system? Basically bugger ourselves and play in the First Division forever?
As the UCD heads keep saying - it is the only way you are surviving in the premier - that is exactly why I don't think it's fair that you get this option exclusively.... If you had to survive like everyother club then you simply wouldn't, and the more you protest about keeping the scheme and so keeping youse afloat, the more it is obvious that you have nothing to offer the league.....

[pineapple stu]

that is exactly why I don't think it's fair that you get this option exclusively

a) we quite patently don't have the option exculsively as SÓCcfc just pointed out.
b) there's absolutely no reason why other clubs can't do the same thing - it's not like by having the scheme, we're stopping other clubs from having one.


The BogBallers get to play with their own club, and the focus for them playing UCD is the Sigerson.... Why can't it be the same for proper football.....

Because it's a different sport, that's why. GAA is organised on a regional basis, soccer on a league basis.


Other clubs shouldnt have to go looking for ties with other colleges. Just because thats the way UCD wants it doesnt mean thats the way it has to be for everyone else.

Other clubs don't have to do this! And nobody's forcing our way onto other clubs!


actually the point is that the eL should be theoretically more important than education.

The two should go hand in hand, especially with the way English clubs poach our better players when they're 14 and 15. Most players in the eL haven't been over to England and so have a Leaving Cert - why should we be punished for turning our attention to those players who were good enough to go to England and tailoring our agreement to suit? We're basically being told off becuase we're looking to get better players into the eL, promote its image in England and among agents and try and take the game another step forward. Typical Irish attitude!


IMO UCD bring more to the league than what Kilkenny did last year.

Thank you! Surely you can't be the only one to see that, however few fans we have currently, we are progressing and surely are better for the Premier than Kilkenny, Monaghan or, arguably, Bray were or than Dublin City or a couple of others in the First Division could be?!

I think I'm going to ignore this thread now - I'll come back when one of youz actually has something intelligent and pertinent to say!

[@ndy]

Very well put Kevin.

I'd just simply like to add that soccer players get paid and gaa players don't.

Andy.

[Xlex]

Originally posted by Macy
Not quite my point - I think there should be a scholarship system, but it shouldn't be tied to just one club.... The BogBallers get to play with their own club, and the focus for them playing UCD is the Sigerson.... Why can't it be the same for proper football.....

Incorrect to a point... players playing for UCD and their home GAA clubs as such play for two clubs... UCD got to the semi-final of the Dublin Senior championship... technically their players were allowed to play for their two clubs... and thus could have had to choose in the leinster club Championship... UCD have it well covered... Murder on two fronts...

[Schumi]

Originally posted by Xlex
Incorrect to a point... players playing for UCD and their home GAA clubs as such play for two clubs... UCD got to the semi-final of the Dublin Senior championship... technically their players were allowed to play for their two clubs... and thus could have had to choose in the leinster club Championship... UCD have it well covered... Murder on two fronts... Not a GAA fan but UCD won the Dublin Championship and (I think) lost in the Leinster quarters. The whole playing for 2 clubs is stupid anyway. Why should players from outside Dublin get two chances in the championship?

[SÓC]

UCD brought something to the league, they were the ONLY side who were able to outplay Cork City at Turners Cross this season. I dont think we even had a real chance on goal all game.

UCD show how defending is ment to be done, at the risk of sounding too much like Rico, defending is an art which UCD have mastered, for that alone ye deserve to be in the premier, even if ye are fcukheads of the highest order for taking away our record!

[paudie]

I wouldn't say UCD outplayed City. They scored from their only chance.

However City were terrible for all the possession they had.

In general I've nothing against UCD. They introduce players to proper facilities and decent training.

If they manage to get enough points on the pitch to stay up good luck to them.

[@ndy]

Once UCD were a goal up it was always going to be pressure piled on. Cork never looked like scoring i thought. They had the ball and just hoofed it in every time, and that's exactly what UCD want, with Delaney, McAuley and Ryan well capable of dealing with that kind of ball.

When rovers went 2-0 up on ye what did you do? Did you lamp balls in over the top like that? If ye've played like that all season i'm not a bit surprised that you've such a bad away record and i think ye may have been a little jammy at home...

[Schumi]

Cork looked like they didn't really care. There was very little urgency in their play (unless hoofing more counts!). They weren't a patch on what they did the last time in we played them there at the start of the season.

[sadloserkid]

Personally I like UCD. They're competing well every year and have earned their place in the top flight. They have some good players, a good coach and are well run. More power to them!