Ireland the New Brazil?

[youngirish]

With O'Donovan attracting bids from the higher tiers of football across the water we are starting to look like we could well have nearly 20 strikers playing regularly in the top two divisions in England next year. Considering traditionally our forward line has been one of the weaker parts of the team this seems to represent a significant change in how our young players are developing and how they see themselves as footballers.

Take into account we've only about 2 centre backs getting regular football in the same two divisions (a position we have historically been very strong in) then it looks to me that we are going to end up to be quite lean at the back but top heavy at the front in the near future.

All the following Irish strikers are, or have been until recently, getting regular football for their teams in the higher two tiers of English football:

Keane, Doyle, Long, Connolly, Folan, Murphy, Elliot, Stokes, Ward, Keogh, Lee, Clarke, Rooney, Best, Byrne, Morrison, Foran.

Add to that lot Roy O'Donovan and Cillian Sheridan at Celtic and our forward line looks like it could have an unparralleled level of depth in a season or two.

The future looks good (at least in an attacking sense). Now does anyone know of any good defenders with an Irish granny (as Steve Claridge would say)? Roll on 2010.

[jebus]

Sadly not one of those strikers would even get a look in with Brazil's B team

[neutrino]

Sadly not one of those strikers would even get a look in with Brazil's B team

er i think he's referring to strength in dept when referring to brazil. but your right though

[KopKiller]

Definately. The days of having to wheel Gary Doherty on for the last 10 mins if we are a goal down are gone forever.

What is also encouraging is the amount of players coming through that are NOT from Dublin or Cork (indeed some of the players on the above list are not even from ireland :-)), it is a good indication that young talented lads around the country are turning their backs on Gaelic games and turning to football.

This of course might p1ss some people off but speaking as a soccer fan first and foremost, I think its great to see.

If we can discover a new central midfielder in the Roy Keane mould we really would have a good team.

[geysir]

er i think he's referring to strength in dept when referring to brazil. but your right though
Even Brazil had their odd Scheidt.

[youngirish]

er i think he's referring to strength in dept when referring to brazil. but your right though

The reference to Brazil was a bit tongue in cheek but in reality it was just to emphasise the large disparity between our quality and depth in attack compared to the lack of such in defence. Like the great Brazilian teams of yesteryear.

[Irish_Praha]

The reference to Brazil was a bit tongue in cheek but in reality it was just to emphasise the large disparity between our quality and depth in attack compared to the lack of such in defence. Like the great Brazilian teams of yesteryear.

I agree that we lack in cover for CB but at least we have a decent enough starting pair in Dunne and McShane. However, we have yet to see how they cope away from home against a half-decent side. Then we are looking at O'Dea, O'Brien, Doherty (I know, but he's playing regularly at CB), O'Shea, St. Ledger and maybe McCarthy as cover. So some potential and some players who haven't been great shakes at international level at CB. I really hope O'Brien can turn things around and get a club where he will be regularly playing. Lack of match practice IMO was the reason for his disaster in Cyprus, before that I can't really pick out a game where he let us down and he has lots more experience than the other cover.

Getting back to CMF we don't even have a decent starting CMF partnership, never mind cover. The Reids, J. O'Brien, Gibson, Garvan are all options but they are unproven in CMF at international level.

[zenokelly]

I agree that we lack in cover for CB but at least we have a decent enough starting pair in Dunne and McShane. However, we have yet to see how they cope away from home against a half-decent side. Then we are looking at O'Dea, O'Brien, Doherty (I know, but he's playing regularly at CB), O'Shea, St. Ledger and maybe McCarthy as cover. So some potential and some players who haven't been great shakes at international level at CB. I really hope O'Brien can turn things around and get a club where he will be regularly playing. Lack of match practice IMO was the reason for his disaster in Cyprus, before that I can't really pick out a game where he let us down and he has lots more experience than the other cover.

To be honest I would give up on Irish football if I was ever that unfortunate to witness Andy o Brien wearing the green shirt ever again.

Please recall Germany nthe previous game when he gave away the free from which Germany scored for a needless high foot.

Completely pathetic as one of the senior members of the team in the friendly with Holland, remember that ? 4 - 0

Responsible for the 2 goals against Israel @ home (inc. peno) - Did not play in any of the remainder of the world cup qualifiers after that embarassment.

And Cyprus, I would worry for anyone who still want him anywhere near the Irish set-up after that.

This is a question: can anybody recall as bad a performeance by any player in the green shirt that played as bad as he did in Cyprus? because I can't!

I hope he lives a happy life but I don't want him to break into any club team for the time - being, so there are no excuses for Stan to call upon him.

[kev mcq]

I agree that we lack in cover for CB but at least we have a decent enough starting pair in Dunne and McShane. However, we have yet to see how they cope away from home against a half-decent side. Then we are looking at O'Dea, O'Brien, Doherty (I know, but he's playing regularly at CB), O'Shea, St. Ledger and maybe McCarthy as cover. So some potential and some players who haven't been great shakes at international level at CB. I really hope O'Brien can turn things around and get a club where he will be regularly playing. Lack of match practice IMO was the reason for his disaster in Cyprus, before that I can't really pick out a game where he let us down and he has lots more experience than the other cover.

Getting back to CMF we don't even have a decent starting CMF partnership, never mind cover. The Reids, J. O'Brien, Gibson, Garvan are all options but they are unproven in CMF at international level.

Jesus don't mention McCarthy in a thread started by youngirish....apparently only he knows anything about him and he's cack:D

[Paddy Garcia]

Responsible for the 2 goals against Israel @ home (inc. peno) - Did not play in any of the remainder of the world cup qualifiers after that embarassment.
.

I thought that was O'Shea. Maybe I'm wrong.

[QUOTE=zenokelly;660674]
This is a question: can anybody recall as bad a performeance by any player in the green shirt that played as bad as he did in Cyprus? because I can't!

QUOTE]

Yes, the entire midfield were worse. In fact they did not even turn up.

Anyway, I disagree I think he has served us well over the years.

[Stuttgart88]

Billy Clarke has barely featured for Ipswich since he caught a few headlines before Christmas and had ITV raving about him. Any news on him?

Has Jonathan Walters been getting his game for them recently?

I'm still backing Stephen Elliott to be a big player for us, though I fear he may be permanently injury prone.

[neutrino]

Responsible for the 2 goals against Israel @ home (inc. peno) - Did not play in any of the remainder of the world cup qualifiers after that embarassment.


it was john o'shea that conceded the peno. i dont think andy o'brien has an international future. taken a bit of a nose dive in recent years.

[Stuttgart88]

The only blame attributable to O'Brien in the Israel home draw was an overhit backpass to Given which Given skied in the air and led to the foul...

O'Brien was a disaster against Cyprus but his selection was (certainly in hindsight) an error of judgment as he hadn't played all season and was poor against Holland. Funny, if Stan had actually meant what he said about blooding youngsters maybe we'd have escaped the torment that was the Cyprus match. In my opinion Finnan was every bit as poor if not worse in Cyprus, Kenny made a critical error and central midfield was utterly destroyed.

You could maybe point the finger at O'Brien for the late equaliser in Israel, but by and large he was one of the best performers in the WC06 qualifying campaign. His performance in Basle stood out for me, second only to Given's and for a guy of limited ability he actually did very well for us.

McShane's emergence is very welcome though.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Even Brazil had their odd Scheidt.

Too right they did not to mention some seriously DODGY KEEPERS!:D

[youngirish]

Billy Clarke has barely featured for Ipswich since he caught a few headlines before Christmas and had ITV raving about him. Any news on him?

Has Jonathan Walters been getting his game for them recently?

I'm still backing Stephen Elliott to be a big player for us, though I fear he may be permanently injury prone.

Clarke has been making a few sub appearances but Danny Haynes has overtaken him in a pecking order as third choice striker for Ipswich. He needs to bang in a few goals before the end of the season to get back on track.

Clarke is IMO a similar sort of player to Keane and Andy Keogh. Very skillful, scores the spectacular, good for a few assists but doesn't weigh in with enough goals at the end of the day for a striker. I think next season will be make or break time for him at Ipswich (who I fancy to do well under Magilton).

I forgot about Johnathan Walters so you could add him to the list. He has been playing regularly for Ipswich fairly recently (unfortunately at the expense of the far more talented Clarke and Haynes).

Stephen Elliot needs to move from Sunderland if he's to reignite his career. He's 5th choice striker there at the moment and if they get promoted and buy some new players he's likely to be even further down the pecking order. Going to Wolves with McCarthy would be a good move for him.

[Ceirtlis]

With O'Donovan attracting bids from the higher tiers of football across the water we are starting to look like we could well have nearly 20 strikers playing regularly in the top two divisions in England next year. Considering traditionally our forward line has been one of the weaker parts of the team this seems to represent a significant change in how our young players are developing and how they see themselves as footballers.

Take into account we've only about 2 centre backs getting regular football in the same two divisions (a position we have historically been very strong in) then it looks to me that we are going to end up to be quite lean at the back but top heavy at the front in the near future.

All the following Irish strikers are, or have been until recently, getting regular football for their teams in the higher two tiers of English football:

Keane, Doyle, Long, Connolly, Folan, Murphy, Elliot, Stokes, Ward, Keogh, Lee, Clarke, Rooney, Best, Byrne, Morrison, Foran.

Add to that lot Roy O'Donovan and Cillian Sheridan at Celtic and our forward line looks like it could have an unparralleled level of depth in a season or two.

The future looks good (at least in an attacking sense). Now does anyone know of any good defenders with an Irish granny (as Steve Claridge would say)? Roll on 2010.

I wouldnt say we have that many more strikers than defenders. Alot of the players you mentioned above are squad players and we have a few more in defence than you think with St.Ledger and a few others getting games regularly in the championship. Its nice to see abit of competition for strikers places but its quality and not quantity that we need.

[livehead1]

Definately. The days of having to wheel Gary Doherty on for the last 10 mins if we are a goal down are gone forever.

What is also encouraging is the amount of players coming through that are NOT from Dublin or Cork (indeed some of the players on the above list are not even from ireland :-)), it is a good indication that young talented lads around the country are turning their backs on Gaelic games and turning to football.

This of course might p1ss some people off but speaking as a soccer fan first and foremost, I think its great to see.

If we can discover a new central midfielder in the Roy Keane mould we really would have a good team.

I don't think its a great thing that young talented irish lads are turning their backs on gaelic to play soccer, although i believe there to be an element of truth in that suggestion. Gaelic is our national sport, not soccer, and whenever that happens it cannot be a good thing. A great thing for soccer fans, but surely a negative thing for irish sport fans.

[Shelsman]

I don't think its a great thing that young talented irish lads are turning their backs on gaelic to play soccer, although i believe there to be an element of truth in that suggestion. Gaelic is our national sport, not soccer, and whenever that happens it cannot be a good thing. A great thing for soccer fans, but surely a negative thing for irish sport fans.

Aren't we Irish Sports Fans????? Maybe you meant fans of ( indigenous ) Irish Sport. I would've thought we have a right as Irish Soccer fans to enjoy good times too? Surely it's a good thing for kids to have a choice of what sport they play, and many play more than one sport up until their mid-teens. I went to a GaelScoil and I was no-good at GAA, if we had a soccer team I might have taken to that -I'll never know at this stage anyway but it would have been nice to have a choice! ( I know some of you will say that there are local teams etc etc but they were very limited in availability when I was a young fellah ).

[jmurphyc]

Stephen Elliot needs to move from Sunderland if he's to reignite his career. He's 5th choice striker there at the moment and if they get promoted and buy some new players he's likely to be even further down the pecking order. Going to Wolves with McCarthy would be a good move for him.
I thought he was just injured, no?

[irishfan86]

I thought he was just injured, no?

Yeah, he should be back in the squad soon enough.

Seemed to be playing regularly before his injury, albeit sometimes on the right wing.

[jmurphyc]

i actually think he's decent on the right. he did very well there against sweden.

[neutrino]

Aren't we Irish Sports Fans????? Maybe you meant fans of ( indigenous ) Irish Sport. I would've thought we have a right as Irish Soccer fans to enjoy good times too? Surely it's a good thing for kids to have a choice of what sport they play, and many play more than one sport up until their mid-teens. I went to a GaelScoil and I was no-good at GAA, if we had a soccer team I might have taken to that -I'll never know at this stage anyway but it would have been nice to have a choice! ( I know some of you will say that there are local teams etc etc but they were very limited in availability when I was a young fellah ).

spot on. I played GAA first before soccer. Started off with hurling before moving to Gaelic football. I had problems (even tho i was young) with how our local GAA club functioned. So I quit it and moved to soccer which i played for over 10 continous years. If it wasnt for soccer I'd have played nothing, more than likely have got into trouble and not met alot of very good friends. I was def happy for having the choice. It's better that kids have a choice. I would never see a kid moving from GAA to soccer as a bad thing for Irish sport. Alot of current stars of codes like rugby and soccer started off with GAA and moved to different sports.

[Condex]

With O'Donovan attracting bids from the higher tiers of football across the water we are starting to look like we could well have nearly 20 strikers playing regularly in the top two divisions in England next year. Considering traditionally our forward line has been one of the weaker parts of the team this seems to represent a significant change in how our young players are developing and how they see themselves as footballers.

Take into account we've only about 2 centre backs getting regular football in the same two divisions (a position we have historically been very strong in) then it looks to me that we are going to end up to be quite lean at the back but top heavy at the front in the near future.

All the following Irish strikers are, or have been until recently, getting regular football for their teams in the higher two tiers of English football:

Keane, Doyle, Long, Connolly, Folan, Murphy, Elliot, Stokes, Ward, Keogh, Lee, Clarke, Rooney, Best, Byrne, Morrison, Foran.

Add to that lot Roy O'Donovan and Cillian Sheridan at Celtic and our forward line looks like it could have an unparralleled level of depth in a season or two.

The future looks good (at least in an attacking sense). Now does anyone know of any good defenders with an Irish granny (as Steve Claridge would say)? Roll on 2010.

Most of these players will never make it in the premiership and you've already got them playing for Brazil!!!:rolleyes:

[youngirish]

Most of these players will never make it in the premiership and you've already got them playing for Brazil!!!:rolleyes:

What? Are you saying that Richie Foran isn't as good as Ronaldinho?

Obviously my analogy (which I described earlier) was lost on some. Yeah I actually really do believe all those players are good enough for Brazil :rolleyes:.

[DeNiro]

Where has Liam Lawrence gone? Is he one of the few (Sean McCarthy and Paul Byrne also) that came sat on the bench once and we never saw them again?

[tetsujin1979]

Shipped out to Stoke by Keano

[DeNiro]

Stoke probably signals the end of his international prospects. He was being watched by Everton at one stage. Anyone else know of any 'no-cap wonders' that came sat on the bench, but didn't get any action?

[tetsujin1979]

Richie Partridge was on the bench away to Greece, Don Givens' only game in charge.

[DeNiro]

Yeh, forgot him. Wesley Hoolahan was there if I remember correctly! Might be wrong though!

So we have:


Paul Byrne (v Russia 1994)
Sean McCarthy (v Russia 1994)
Brendan Murphy (v Wales 1997)
Richie Partridge (v Greece 2000)
Wesley Hoolahan (v Greece 2000)?

[Qwerty]

With O'Donovan attracting bids from the higher tiers of football across the water we are starting to look like we could well have nearly 20 strikers playing regularly in the top two divisions in England next year. Considering traditionally our forward line has been one of the weaker parts of the team this seems to represent a significant change in how our young players are developing and how they see themselves as footballers.

Take into account we've only about 2 centre backs getting regular football in the same two divisions (a position we have historically been very strong in) then it looks to me that we are going to end up to be quite lean at the back but top heavy at the front in the near future.

All the following Irish strikers are, or have been until recently, getting regular football for their teams in the higher two tiers of English football:

Keane, Doyle, Long, Connolly, Folan, Murphy, Elliot, Stokes, Ward, Keogh, Lee, Clarke, Rooney, Best, Byrne, Morrison, Foran.

Add to that lot Roy O'Donovan and Cillian Sheridan at Celtic and our forward line looks like it could have an unparralleled level of depth in a season or two.

The future looks good (at least in an attacking sense). Now does anyone know of any good defenders with an Irish granny (as Steve Claridge would say)? Roll on 2010.

You foget two other Irish Brazileros - Macken at Derby and Walters at Ipswich.

[Over the post]

Definately. The days of having to wheel Gary Doherty on for the last 10 mins if we are a goal down are gone forever.

Don't knock the time-honoured tactic of hoofing long balls up to the big man. I seem to remember the Ginger Pele getting a couple of vital goals for us in that fashion. And remember Quinn against Germany and Spain in our last world cup... Even Mourinho resorted having Chelsea, with all their myriad riches, hoof balls to Huth playing as an improvised target man, if memory serves.

[tetsujin1979]

I think the point is that we don't have to resort to lumping balls to the big man up front anymore, whereas under Kerr at times it seemed to be the only resort

[Stuttgart88]

Getting back to CMF we don't even have a decent starting CMF partnership, never mind cover. The Reids, J. O'Brien, Gibson, Garvan are all options but they are unproven in CMF at international level.Just wondering if Glenn Whelan deserves a look in the end of season friendlies. SWFC are doing well this season and I see he's been a pretty regular starter under the new manager. He scored at the weekend but I didn't see it.

Can Owls Fan or anyone comment on his form?

[greatbleddyman]

Whelan despite getting a huge amount of stick (mostly unfair) has being playing increasingly well for wednesday in that "water carrier" role. His major problem in my book is that his distribution lets him down at times. But he's gotten a few goals from midfield this season and a more whole hearted player you won't find.

Should be on the plane to America this summer to have a look at him. But then again there is a good chance that Staunton hasn't even heard of him

[Stuttgart88]

His major problem in my book is that his distribution lets him down at times...which is a pity as it's potentially his greatest strength.

[OwlsFan]

Whelan can score some cracking goals but he's not what we (Ireland) need, namely a midfielder who can hold the ball without giving it away cheaply. Glenn just gives the ball away far to often to make it to the top of his profession. A good Championship player who gives it 100% and has a great touch on occasions but alas lacks consistency even though, according to Wikipedia (which of course could have been written by his mother :D ) in "an interview to the Irish press former Manchester United legend Roy Keane touted Glenn Whelan as player who will fill his shoes."

[bwagner]

who were these guys...........
Paul Byrne (v Russia 1994)
Sean McCarthy (v Russia 1994)
Brendan Murphy (v Wales 1997)

[OwlsFan]

If I am not mistaken that 1994 game against Russia was Mick Mc's first game in charge. Don't remember the players though.

[Stuttgart88]

March '96 I think the Russia game was.

Paul Byrne was a much talked about player from Tallaght at Celtic (under Brady) whose moment of glory came scoring a lovely volley to equalise against Rangers live on SKY. He did sod all else at Celtic though and had weight problems and I think he was generally regarded as a lazy git. Played for Bohs when he returned to Ireland I think, but not sure.

Brendan Murphy was a tall but slow and ultimately very limited forward for UCD who moved to Rovers with Keith Dignam before they left Milltown, towards the end of Rovers' 5 in a row in the 80s. I presume that's the same guy.

Can't remember Sean McCarthy.

[Dr. Ogba]

March '96 I think the Russia game was.

Paul Byrne was a much talked about player from Tallaght at Celtic (under Brady) whose moment of glory came scoring a lovely volley to equalise against Rangers live on SKY. He did sod all else at Celtic though and had weight problems and I think he was generally regarded as a lazy git. Played for Bohs when he returned to Ireland I think, but not sure.

Brendan Murphy was a tall but slow and ultimately very limited forward for UCD who moved to Rovers with Keith Dignam before they left Milltown, towards the end of Rovers' 5 in a row in the 80s. I presume that's the same guy.

Can't remember Sean McCarthy.

Former Oldham player in the late 80's/ early 90's I think....

[Row Z]

Paul Byrne went on and won the Double with Bohs with Roddy Collins. He went back over to England to Carlisle i think for a short spell. Back playing non-lge LSL for Dublin Bus. and Yes still goes on about "THAT" goal....

[dr_peepee]

Sean McCarthy played up front in the early days of the premiership for Oldham. Scored against Unied aswell if i recall. The like of him and Micky Evans are why I don't get too exited about the likes of Caleb Folan...

[OwlsFan]

March '96 I think the Russia game was. .


I thought it was a 0-0 in 1994 :confused: ?

As for one hit wonders, I'll remember Austin Hayes.

[Stuttgart88]

Aha! Different game so.

Mick's first game was '96 a 2-0 home defeat to Russia. Shay made his debut and I think Stan missed a penalty. Captain Keane got a red card for a nasty kick at a Russian bloke.

[OwlsFan]

Mick's first game was '96 a 2-0 home defeat to Russia. .

Totally off topic but this is one of my pedantic bugbears. It is defeat BY not to. It is loss to, defeat by. This has come though America and all the commentators now say defeat to. Do you say they were defeated to Russia? No. ((slips off his soapbox and breaks his leg)).

I was at that game. If I recall Mick's first few results didn't set the world on fire. I was never a huge fan of Mick but he hung in there and got us to qualification in the end after some near misses. Oh that penalty in Lansdowne against Turkey :mad:

[Stuttgart88]

Sorry sir. Funny thing is you've mentioned it a few times before too. I'm a bit of a pedant too so point learnt, until I forget it again.

My bugbear is "neither did their cause any good" whereas each, every , either , neither, none all require a singular such as "neither did his cause any good".

As for Mick's early results, I remember thinking the 2-2 home friendly draw with Croatia was like winning the World Cup.

[greatbleddyman]

Was Brendan Murphy not the Wimbledon reserve keeper at the time?

[youngirish]

Totally off topic but this is one of my pedantic bugbears. This whole thread has gone way off topic.

[Stuttgart88]

Was Brendan Murphy not the Wimbledon reserve keeper at the time?
Hmm, maybe you're right there. It's all a foggy memory now and the UCD Brendan Murphy had overshot his level when he left UCD for Rovers!

[DeNiro]

Was Brendan Murphy not the Wimbledon reserve keeper at the time?

brendan murphy was definitely a keeper and was reserve at wimbledon in late 1990s. Sean McCarthy came to prominence from Oldham's cup run in 1994, I think Mick Milligan got him onto the scene as he was in a few squads then himself. McCarthy's first squad v Russia in 96 had something like 32 in it. Chris Morris was there even then, so there probably was a lot of untried in it.


Did Staunton miss a penalty v Russia in 1996 Stuttgart? Can't remember it, although remember the nightmare of a game it was!