What has Stan learned?

[tetsujin1979]

With the two recent wins, indeed the 4 wins on the bounce (forget about 2 wins over San Marino, on face value 4 wins is still impressive) what has Stan learned so far in this campaign, if anything? For me, I think he has picked up something in most of the games.
Germany: Good performance, possibly learned to control himself on the sidelines.
Cyprus: Don't leave out a recognised defensive midfielder if you're playing 3 attacking/creative players in midfield. Make sure the oppositions target man (e.g. Konstantinou, Koller, etc) is tightly marked. Keep the opposition's main creative threat (e.g. Okkas, Giggs, etc.) closed down when he's on the ball.
Czech Republic: Good performance, compare and contrast with the Wales and German games?
San Marino (home): Not much you can learn from 5-0. Maybe not to rest on your laurels win leading, take the game to the opposition no matter what the score.
San Marino (away): Hmmmmm....
Wales: I think this showed what he had learned to date, the team that lined up was the strongest to date, and got a (barely) deserved win.
Slovakia: Culmination of everything learned to date, team lineup and gameplan was the strongest I've seen under Stan, solid back 5, 2 attacking wingers (including Duff restored to his favored left flank), target man, creative force in the centre, and 2 defensive players to cover for him.

Where to go from here? What do you want to see Stan learn from the games in the States, and the Denmark friendly? Will there be another B game?

Personally, I'd like to see Finnan restored at right full, and a recognised left full given a chance, on the other hand, what left full backs are available? Doyle clearly is the target man of choice, but we need to know if we have any options, should he get injured. Robbie Keane took a lot (a whole lot) of flak for his performance up front in recent games, can he play where Stephen Ireland did on wednesday - after all his 2 best contributions to the Wales game (the passes laid on for an onrushing Duff and Ireland in the space of about 10 minutes) came in that position in front of the midfield.

[DeNiro]

Personally, I'd like to see Finnan restored at right full, and a recognised left full given a chance, on the other hand, what left full backs are available? Doyle clearly is the target man of choice, but we need to know if we have any options, should he get injured. Robbie Keane took a lot (a whole lot) of flak for his performance up front in recent games, can he play where Stephen Ireland did on wednesday - after all his 2 best contributions to the Wales game (the passes laid on for an onrushing Duff and Ireland in the space of about 10 minutes) came in that position in front of the midfield.[/QUOTE]


That in itself is an interesting comment. When Staunton got the job this campaign was seen as a platform for building for 2010 WC. However, we're halfway through this campaign and we haven't really seen too many new options emerge. In relation to left back, Clive Clarke could have been used in earlier friendlies, however, I reckon he will stick with the tried and trusted as long as we can mathematically qualify for Euro 2008. Kilbane could be a left back maybe. We also have a whole of cover in centre defence either. Paddy McCarthy will probably go to the States. Also, would there be a possibility of calling up Ronnie O'Brien seeing as he is based in that region?

[stojkovic]

I agree.

He certainly hasnt learned that Stevie Finnan is the best right back in the Premiership.

[brine3]

I thought Stephen Kelly was good as left back against the Czech Republic, even if he is a right back.

Finnan is one of the two or three top right-backs in the Premiership and really should be playing there for us instead of being wasted on the left.

Finnan has done well when asked to play left back, but we need his crossing. Although, mind, his most famous cross in an Ireland shirt was made with his left peg.

[limerickblue]

IMO on wednsday night we were all shown why hunt shud be playing and still on wednsday night he didnt play him to be honest i was gobsmacked

[tetsujin1979]

IMO on wednsday night we were all shown why hunt shud be playing and still on wednsday night he didnt play him to be honest i was gobsmacked
I said this on the Slovakia lineup thread, but I don't think Hunt will start ahead of Duff, Kilbane or McGeady on the left wing, and I'm happy to see him on the bench. He's been proven as an impact player that adds energy late on to a tiring side, and exploits any tiredness in the opposition defence, as well as giving our midfield and defence someone to aim at who will take the ball out of our half

[OwlsFan]

Hunt didn't do much in the game against Reading yesterday.

I am afraid we have a small team and like it or not O'Shea is needed to add a few inches in that department. I thought he did well defensively in both games and the defence as a whole played well.

So what has Stan learned? I think he is now settled on his back 4. Whether it will be robust enough to do well away from home remains to be seen.

Midfield: Duff and Carsley certainties and again possibly Kilbane for the physicality and effort even though we all know he's not international class.

His quandaries are Doyle/Keane/Ireland/McGeady (our 4 most talented players). How does he play them all? I suspect McGeady will get axed for the away games with Doyle up front and Keane playing deeper and Ireland floating.

[Nailer77]

His quandaries are Doyle/Keane/Ireland/McGeady (our 4 most talented players). How does he play them all? I suspect McGeady will get axed for the away games with Doyle up front and Keane playing deeper and Ireland floating.

Well you can certainly accomodate Ireland and Keane if you have to. McGeady still has to do it for Ireland but its clear the talent is there so hopefully its just a matter of time. What he could do is start with Carsley and Ireland in the middle with Duff as a left winger and S Reid as a right midfielder tucking in a bit to compensate for Irelands frailties, it'd mean that O'Shea/Finnan would have to offer themselves as more of an outlet on the right but it can be done. At least we've a few options now. But as it is I'd go with the 4411 with S Reid and Carlsey in the middle and Keane dropping back into the hole, then you allow McGeady/Hunt and Duff to get forward when possible. I don't think we should be accomodating Keane and Ireland for the sake of it.

And on 'what has Stan learned?'. Well we won't know the answer to that until the next round of games, the answer is possibly 'nothing'.

[danonion]

to fight with his back to the wall

[Dotsy]

Hopefully he watching the Liverpool PSV game last night. Finnan was brilliant attacking on the right and put in two wonderful crosses for Gerrard and Crouch to score.

Unfortunatley, I think he will persist with this ridiculous notion of playing Finnan on the left and O Shea on the right just to make a point to the media.

[eirebhoy]

Yeah Finnan has set up 4 goals for Liverpool in the CL now.

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/ucl/statistics/players/typestat=a/index.html

[dr_peepee]

I think the idea is that in this new formation there's little need for the full back to go beyond the half way line so the overlapping qualties are redundant here.

I think stan is asking heimself in the selction of where to play O'Shea/Finnan "Do I want to good right back with a good left back or a very good right back with a p!ss poor left back?" It's a minor gripe for me at the minute. I think the back four looked solid enough.

I'd like to see him persist with the formation with Keane in instead of McGeady. Overall it's more flexible and allows us to capitalise on our stengths.

[Nailer77]

I think the idea is that in this new formation there's little need for the full back to go beyond the half way line so the overlapping qualties are redundant here.

I think stan is asking heimself in the selction of where to play O'Shea/Finnan "Do I want to good right back with a good left back or a very good right back with a p!ss poor left back?" It's a minor gripe for me at the minute. I think the back four looked solid enough.

I'd like to see him persist with the formation with Keane in instead of McGeady. Overall it's more flexible and allows us to capitalise on our stengths.


Sorry could you explain how you want them to line out? Are you saying to play Keane on the right wing? Why? McGeady's a winger, Hunts a winger, why not play the wingers on the wing and Robbie in the hole which is actually the position he's quite good at.

[Bluebeard]

Sorry could you explain how you want them to line out? Are you saying to play Keane on the right wing? Why? McGeady's a winger, Hunts a winger, why not play the wingers on the wing and Robbie in the hole which is actually the position he's quite good at.

Guh! Next thing you'll be saying play Duff on the wing instead of up front, and bring more strikers into the squad when we have strikers injured.

If there is one thing that the Gaa-fuh has learned, it's that the better teams expect yoyu to play your best players, and to play them in positions that they are used to. Hence Dean Kiely will be starting at left full against Germany, Lee Trundle will be centre half, Andy Townsend will be corner forward and Anne Doyle inside right.

All faith in the Gaa-fuh-rer.

[dr_peepee]

Because they don't play as out and out wingers in the truest sense of the word. Think more 4-3-3 than 4-5-1.

[Irish_Praha]

Because they don't play as out and out wingers in the truest sense of the word. Think more 4-3-3 than 4-5-1.

Or the Christmas tree formation of 4-3-2-1 :p

[Bluebeard]

Or the Christmas tree formation of 4-3-2-1 :p

The way we played against Cyprus, a 5-4-3-2-1 wouldn't have done anything much.

[Nailer77]

Because they don't play as out and out wingers in the truest sense of the word. Think more 4-3-3 than 4-5-1.

But they do play as out and out wingers. Duff and McGeady hugged the wings against Slovakia and Duff in particular was better for it, plus both Duff and McGeady have played that 4-3-3 you're talking about so still don't see how its relevent. The position in the hole is made for Keane, its were he plays for Spurs and were he does his best work, I'd play him there.

[dr_peepee]

Good for you!!

[The-Beer-Baron]

i agree that hole role would be good for keane but he has not played well for ireland in a good while. maybe a game on the sideline would give him a dose of reality. i think o'shea should start in midfield instead of kilbane. hes just as physical and he is way more comfortable on the ball. if steven reid gets back to what he is capable he would be another option in the engine room. i like him a lot. he is very physical and direct. finnan should be restored to right full. he is the most consistent right full in the premiership bar maybe neville, with kelly going to the left. i dont rate mcgeady. the scottish league isnt as good as the championship and he doesnt even play well in that league. hunt should start instead

[dr_peepee]

I also agree that a role in the hole would be good for Keane, but the fact is we haven't got the players to support him in such a role.

We absolutely have to make room in the midfield for players comfortable in posession that can look up and play football. The only two options in our case being A Reid and S Ireland, with Reid excelling in that central role for Charlton but like S Ireland requiring the back up of two central midfield grafters to carry them. Which is what we had for Ireland with Kilbane/Carsley.

Now Kevin Doyle is clearly the better option as the lone forward given what he offers. Keane has to start every game for me. To play him in the hole means putting Reid back in the middle and relegating one of the grafters to the bench. Neither Reid or Ireland have it in them to play Central in a flat midfeild four. To put Keane in the hole could also mean relegating Reid to the bench or push him out to the wing. Resulting in all the "football" having to be played through Keane. For me Keane is too erratic a performer to have the enitre team play through him. Keane has it in him to flank the lone forward and retreat to the wings if need be. He has done that for Spurs in a three pronged forward line, and done well albeit as a plan B. Plus the formation offers more flexibility in terms of interchangibility and capitalising on the players we have on offer.

In this team Finnan would play right full!!!

[Noelys Guitar]

Stick with the back four as they are. Finnan is still a great player even when he plays on the left. Anb O'Shea has looked the part at right back in the last 2 games. A lot will happen between now and September. We might lose Carsley through age and Everton buying a new player in his position. A Duff move to Sunderland if they go up would be a big plus. And he is regaining his form anyway. Looks happier playing for Ireland now rather than Newcastle. We still need another target man in case Doyle isn't fit or loses form. (maybe Andy Keogh). Steven and Andy Reid both back and playing first team football for their clubs would I believe get us into 2nd place in this group. But don't be surprised if you see Douglas playing in the 2 away games if he is still in the championship.

[gustavo]

. A Duff move to Sunderland if they go up would be a big plus. .

Gotta disagree with you there. I dont see how Duff going down the rankings in the Premiership can be good forh him , surely thats why he left Chelsea .