FIFA Rankings [Archive]

EalingGreen

14/03/2007, 10:11 AM

Depends on how you define "no comment" and "a wee wink".

http://ourweecountry.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17278

Jeez, I thought I was doing well merely to point out the latest ROI ranking to users of this Board, whilst forebearing to comment further.

You see, on past occasions when I've ventured an opinion on this Board, I've been "advised" by certain posters here to "Stick to your own Board".

Now it seems I'm not even allowed to express an opinion* over there, either! :p

* - An opinion I stand by 100%, btw! ;)

galwayhoop

14/03/2007, 10:15 AM

they are mad strange alright! i mean what games have us and the nordies played since the last rankings were released to allow a swing of 7 places??

EalingGreen

14/03/2007, 10:17 AM

You have to laugh at those rankings,especially when you see the Sweaties at no.16,just look at all the teams they are supposed to be better than!,complete joke.

Tbf, the Sweaties are currently top of a Group which includes Italy, France and Ukraine. And even if it shouldn't last (which it won't, imo), after the debacle that was Bertie Vogts, they racked up a lot of points under Smith, including a competitive victory over France.

RogerMilla

14/03/2007, 10:17 AM

we are the ones who pulled off the tricky away win in the intervening period!!

Billsthoughts

14/03/2007, 10:20 AM

didnt john delaney use the rannkings as an excuse to get rid of current st patricks athletic footballing tzsar Brian Kerr????
what has changed since steve " I wanna bring back the passion" staunton is "in charge"???
and what the hell is this sweaties ****e about?

RogerMilla

14/03/2007, 10:24 AM

sweaty socks - jocks , bill

galwayhoop

14/03/2007, 10:27 AM

we are the ones who pulled off the tricky away win in the intervening period!!

i thought the last rankings came out after that 'tricky assignment against the team who will cause EVERYONE problems'. cud be totally wrong here but i didn't think either team played since last ones :confused:

but as ealing says on his other forum of choice class is permanent and form is temporary. expect us to overtake our provencial neighbours again shortly. would be much more concerned with the overall implications with regard to seedings for WC10 qualifiers than our position in relation to other countries/provences

NeilMcD

14/03/2007, 10:27 AM

ifk101

14/03/2007, 10:34 AM

expect us to overtake our provencial neighbours again shortly.

I'd question that. I think NI's chances of winning their forthcoming matches are higher than Ireland's chances of beating the Welsh and Slovaks.

paul_oshea

14/03/2007, 10:35 AM

again its cockney sh1te that i was refering to yesterday.

Billsthoughts

14/03/2007, 10:36 AM

Just more ignorant nonsense in the same way we are called paddys.

we are called WHAT???????

Dublin12

14/03/2007, 10:37 AM

again its cockney sh1te that i was refering to yesterday.

'Allo me old china - wot say we pop round the Jack. I'll stand you a pig and you can rabbit on about your teapots. We can 'ave some loop and tommy and be off before the dickory hits twelve.

Billsthoughts

14/03/2007, 10:40 AM

yahoo serious festival??????:confused:

EalingGreen

14/03/2007, 10:42 AM

they are mad strange alright! i mean what games have us and the nordies played since the last rankings were released to allow a swing of 7 places??

Teams can move up or down even after a month in which they haven't played. This is because the rankings take into account past results, though now only up to four years (was eight):
http://www.fifa.com/en/mens/statistics/rank/procedures/0,2540,3,00.html

Therefore, any good results which e.g. ROI got in Feb/Mar 2003 will now be wiped from the record; whereas, any bad results NI had in the same period (under Sammy Mac :( ) will similarly be expunged.

Which means that unless the ROI's results pick up significantly, then Stan won't be able to rely on ranking "credit" for even the moderate preformances under Kerr (never mind previous good performances under McCarthy).

A more pertinent criticism of these rankings (imo) is that, despite a weighting mechanism, they seriously undervalue results gained by European countries (i.e. usually in games against other European countries), whilst seriously overvaluing the African, Asian, Central American countries etc. This is essentially due to political pressures on FIFA, whereby they don't want to see the top 20 made up exclusively of Europe, plus 3 or 4 South American countries.

However, a much fairer picture can be gained by looking at the rankings solely within any given Confederation. By reconfiguring only with UEFA Confedration teams, you will see that NI are 26th and ROI are 28th (of 52):
http://www.fifa.com/en/mens/statistics/index/0,2548,27275-Mar-2007,00.html

Jerry The Saint

14/03/2007, 10:55 AM

they are mad strange alright! i mean what games have us and the nordies played since the last rankings were released to allow a swing of 7 places??

It's because of historical points expiring. This time 2 years ago we beat Portugal and China and drew away in Israel. Northern Ireland were losing at home to Canada and getting spanked by England.

EalingGreen

14/03/2007, 10:57 AM

i thought the last rankings came out after that 'tricky assignment against the team who will cause EVERYONE problems'. cud be totally wrong here but i didn't think either team played since last ones :confused:

but as ealing says on his other forum of choice class is permanent and form is temporary. expect us to overtake our provencial neighbours again shortly. would be much more concerned with the overall implications with regard to seedings for WC10 qualifiers than our position in relation to other countries/provences

I think you're correct that the ranking points gained from the victory in San Marino were included in the rankings for February. Otherwise, how else would you have overtaken NI* last month?
However, whilst you are correct in pointing out that these FIFA rankings are entirely separate from the process whereby WC 2010 seedings are decided, they still give a very rough indication, since it's very unlikely that e.g. a country will do very badly in friendlies (count for the rankings, but not WC seedings), but do very well in competitive matches (count for WC seedings as well)

* - If only for the (shortest) month ;)

FarBeag

14/03/2007, 10:58 AM

Well. I am sure its no surprise to anyone that we are so low in the rankings when we have to wait 94 minutes to beat a Sunday league team i.e. San Marino.NI deserve to be higher than us, at least they beat nationally recognised good football teams i.e. Spain. We have the players to be in the top 20 at least but alas we don't have anyone to guide them. Until this happens we will slip even further.

geysir

14/03/2007, 11:52 AM

Fifa's fantasy league has no relevance to seeding. In the real thing, the North are stuck as 5th seeds and we look stuck as 4th seeds. I'd rather look up than down.

21 C Israel 10 18 4 7 1.786
22 D Spain 10 20 3 3 1.770
23 D Bulgar. 10 15 4 8 1.649
24 D Ireland 10 17 5 7 1.600
25 D Finland 12 16 5 11 1.588
26 D Scotlnd 10 13 4 9 1.571
27 D Austria 10 15 1.500
28 D Bosnia 10 16 4 4 1.429
29 E Belgium 10 12 5 7 1.267
30 E Hungary10 14 4 3 1.214
31 E Latvia 12 15 3 3 1.200
32 E Sloven. 10 12 3 3 1.154
33 E N.Irel 10 9 4 7 1.143

OwlsFan

14/03/2007, 12:19 PM

51 ahead of us and 147 behind us (incldung Cyprus). Not bad ;)

I see our nemesis Switzerland are in 17th position.

EalingGreen

14/03/2007, 12:31 PM

Fifa's fantasy league has no relevance to seeding. In the real thing, the North are stuck as 5th seeds and we look stuck as 4th seeds. I'd rather look up than down.

True, but I'd rather still be moving up, than looking up...;)

Wolfie

14/03/2007, 12:33 PM

Well, no comment from me, anyhow...

http://www.fifa.com/en/mens/statistics/index/0,2548,133499,00.html?articleid=133499

(Well, OK, maybe a wee wink ;) )

These rankings are barely worth comment, certainly not discussion and will have no practical baring on our short term performances (or possibly lack of same) against Wales and Slovakia.

We don't need a ranking list to know we're playing poorly.

The rallying cry to the players won't be "Lads you've got to win the game for the sake of the rankings. Would somebody please consider the rankings!!!!!".

Jerry The Saint

14/03/2007, 12:39 PM

The rallying cry to the players won't be "Lads you've got to win the game for the sake of the rankings. Would somebody please consider the rankings!!!!!".

According to Delaney, it should have been the rallying cry a couple of years ago. :eek:

That and the FEAR in the eyes of the other team. Will Wales have fear in their eyes in 10 days time? That's the real measure of managerial ability.

Wolfie

14/03/2007, 12:46 PM

According to Delaney, it should have been the rallying cry a couple of years ago. :eek:

That and the FEAR in the eyes of the other team. Will Wales have fear in their eyes in 10 days time? That's the real measure of managerial ability.

Yep - I reckon Wales have little or no fear heading into this game and are quietly confident of a result.

as_i_say

14/03/2007, 2:01 PM

tricky_colour

14/03/2007, 2:33 PM

We are only 5 places ahead of Burkina Faso, a place I didn't even know existed!!

galwayhoop

14/03/2007, 2:36 PM

they should be playing in this instead:

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/regionscup/index.html

02/11 Grp 7 Eastern Attica AMA (GRE) 3-0 San Marino AMA (SMR)

even Eastern Attica are spanking the San Marinonians :eek:

Steve Bruce

15/03/2007, 1:18 PM

yeah but like seriously the north shouldnt even be on that list cos like its not a real country anyway y'know. Like.

they should be playing in this instead:

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/regionscup/index.html

Why be political? I come on here with interest in LOI football and by and large I find the LOI fans a friendly bunch. But obviously the LOI has the same bigotry as we have in Northern Ireland.

And if you really knew your history, you would find that the Republic broke away from the 6 counties and not the other way round.

Also by your logic, Wales, England & Scotland shouldn't be in it either as they are exactly the same as Northern Ireland and are states of the United Kingdom.

But as I said, why bring politics into football?

Steve Bruce

15/03/2007, 1:21 PM

02/11 Grp 7 Eastern Attica AMA (GRE) 3-0 San Marino AMA (SMR)

even Eastern Attica are spanking the San Marinonians :eek:

Your average LOI team would be spanking them. They only have 3 full-timers in the whole squad.

geysir

15/03/2007, 1:29 PM

Why be political? I come on here with interest in LOI football and by and large I find the LOI fans a friendly bunch. But obviously the LOI has the same bigotry as we have in Northern Ireland.
Obviously you missed As I Say's písstake by a country mile.

BTW, Ireland are in that tournament, drew with the Basques.

as_i_say

15/03/2007, 1:55 PM

Steve Bruce>>

ealing green likes to wax on about the north at the moment as they are only slightly less sh*te than they normally are.

debates are tolerated, bigotry isn't.

anyway if you wanna talk about the LOI, you're on the wrong forum!

EalingGreen

15/03/2007, 2:16 PM

Steve Bruce>>
ealing green likes to wax on about the north at the moment as they are only slightly less sh*te than they normally are.

Believe me, however good/bad we are at present, we're a whole lot less ****e than we were a wee while back! It's the bad times which make the good times all the sweeter.
I'm a fan now, was a fan in the bad days previously under McIlroy etc, a fan in the great days of the 80's under Bingham, and a fan in the 70's before that, when we were poor, but I thought we were great because I was only a boy!
I guess what I'm saying is that these things tend to come in cycles and it's one of the curiosities of football (imo) that the fortunes of neighbouring teams are often counter-cyclical.
Which is where the ROI comes in. As I see it, under Kerr and (arguably) McCarthy, things began to slip after your high point.
Consequently, whoever came in after Kerr was always going to have some remedial work to do, before getting the team back on an upward cycle. Unfortunately, instead of appointing the "teacher", the FAI appointed someone from the back of the remedial class!
And unless they act soon, poor Stan is going to drag the ROI so far down that whoever succeeds him will have a Herculean task ahead of him.

Anyhow, that's what I think - but only because I've seen exactly the same before with NI. Which is only what the FIFA Rankings, however imperfect, are saying....

ifk101

15/03/2007, 2:29 PM

So a win against Spain heralds the "good times". A bit premature, no?

galwayhoop

15/03/2007, 2:36 PM

good post ealing (..........either me or you must have a temperature today!!)

i think most people are in agreement as to what we needed, as regards a manager, and what we got are not one and the same.

you are right in your bad times V good times story. mcilroy - what was it 13 games without a goal? V sanchez - beating both england and spain in the space of a year (when did we last beat a top notch team in a qualifier - holland in 2001!).

personally i think the nordies are overperforming at the moment - and thats not a dig, just saying that ye are performing better than the sum of yer parts while we are seriously underperforming. maybe the gaffer can turn it around but the signs are not good.

and if he can't turn it around and we slip further we will need someone to come back and bring us all the way up from 5th or 6th seeds to some form of respectability (like what ye have got) - and those guys aren't on every bus!

ifk101

15/03/2007, 2:54 PM

Without question - the North's bunch is currently performing better than us and good for them. However I don't see the relevancy of these constant comparisons with the North. Our aspirations must be much higher than this. At the end of the day Stan has a group of players capable of qualifying for major tournaments, Lawrie Sanchez doesn't.

EalingGreen

15/03/2007, 3:21 PM

So a win against Spain heralds the "good times". A bit premature, no?

I didn't actually claim these were the "good times" (though I'm more than happy with things at present).

What I posted was:

"Believe me, however good/bad we are at present, we're a whole lot less sh ite than we were a wee while back!"

And one win over Spain doesn't account for moving from a hundred and something in the FIFA rankings to 46th over the course of 30 months, either.

As the fans sing: "We used to be sh ite, but now we're all right" - no more, no less. :cool:

EalingGreen

15/03/2007, 3:41 PM

personally i think the nordies are overperforming at the moment

Agree 100% we're "overperforming" at the moment; however, there comes a point where consistent overperforming can become the norm i.e. teams/players/managers acquire a respect which they deserve, but hadn't previously received.
The best example to come to mind at present is Bolton Wanderers, where people are beginning to accept they aren't just the Bash Street Kids of the Premiership. A few years back it was Wimbledon.
In international football, (little) Portugal currently have it and Norway had it for a decade or so. And when it comes to it, so had Scotland for a period. Indeed, had Walter Smith stayed longer, I reckon the good times may have come back for the Jocks (though maybe McLeish might keep things going, given time?)
And dare I say it, but the ROI under Big Jack were actually a better side (imo) than the "Give it a Lash" boys had it.

Of course, the corollary is that teams which consistently underperform risk deluding themselves, before reality bites them on the arse and they come to appreciate that maybe they're not so good as they think. In League football, this is known as being "Too Good to get Relegated" - as WHU and Leeds Utd. are becoming familiar with (or Nottingham Forest a few years back).
On the international front, England and Spain have been hiding behind the "underperforming" excuse for decades (imo). Indeed, unless McLaren proves me wrong, I feel not even the most one-eyed England fan will be able to hide from the truth before long, which is that they're OK, but nothing special, and certainly not in the company of top teams like Brazil, Argentina, Italy, France etc.

EalingGreen

15/03/2007, 3:51 PM

At the end of the day Stan has a group of players capable of qualifying for major tournaments, Lawrie Sanchez doesn't.

No comment on ROI, but I honestly believe that if we could keep Sanchez for another two years (even part-time whilst he managed a club), we'd have every chance of qualifying for WC 2010.

Of course, it's dependent on our upping our seeding a notch after the Euros(possible) and a good draw for the WCQ would be nice, as well.

But I base that opinion on a combination of the real good work in building teamwork, organisation, experience and spirit by Sanchez since he took over, plus the fact that his squad is mostly young, with the capacity to improve.

Unfortunately, I don't think we'll keep Lawrie after this campaign and there's no obvious replacement in the wings, either.:(

as_i_say

16/03/2007, 11:59 AM

ah come off it man-you lot have no chance of qualifying for anything except the milk cup.

EalingGreen

16/03/2007, 12:16 PM

ah come off it man-you lot have no chance of qualifying for anything except the milk cup.

Thank you for that well thought out, brilliantly reasoned and beautifully crafted contribution. I hope it didn't interfere with your homework...

as_i_say

16/03/2007, 12:39 PM

my mom does mine.

Soper

16/03/2007, 12:50 PM

as i say, stop acting the WUM

Qwerty

16/03/2007, 12:52 PM

Can we ban any future discussion of Norn Iron on this forum? It is completely off topic and of no interest to the majority on this forum.

Steve Bruce

16/03/2007, 1:18 PM

Can we ban any future discussion of Norn Iron on this forum? It is completely off topic and of no interest to the majority on this forum.

It's hardly completely off topic. We are talking about World rankings for international teams. It is commented that your smaller neighbour is higher up the rankings than yourselves. Hardly off topic.

And also you can't ban a particular topic because the majority arent interested. Im sure the majority arent interested in UCD, but should that be banned?

Unless topics head into a political/sectarian direction, I don't see what the problem is.