Assembly Elections.

[Risteard]

This wasn't even on the news headlines this morning.:eek:
Anyone up north hazard a guess at any swings or trends?
I would have thought that the procrastination of the DUP may have brought a few voters back to the Ulster Unionists, no?

[pete]

How many pointless elections have they had at this stage?

Assembly MP must be worlds easiest job as they still get paid but don't have any Assembly to turn up to.

:confused: :rolleyes:

[Schumi]

Is this an end to all those terrible party broadcasts on BBC?

[Lionel Ritchie]

Is this an end to all those terrible party broadcasts on BBC?

If Ulster Unionism has a rep for being retentive ...then the UUP must've decided it's something their target market identifies with because the steel rod up their efforts ass had a steel rod up it's ass. Also looked like it was filmed and edited by transition year students.

[cheifo]

Could the SDLP & UUP form some kind of coalition?Looks like the only way they can compete.

[BohsPartisan]

Could the SDLP & UUP form some kind of coalition?Looks like the only way they can compete.

No, sectarianism is institutionalised in the assembly. The two biggest parties from each side have to share power.

[Erstwhile Bóz]

Slugger O'Toole is down ... probably melted with the excitement.

[Erstwhile Bóz]

Info on the first counts, etc., here: http://www.politics.ie/viewforum.php?f=11

[pete]

NORTHERN IRELAND: LATEST RESULTS
Party Seats Seats +/- Votes* Votes % +/-%
DUP 8 135,601 30.7 +5.3
SF 8 111,744 25.3 +3.0
SDLP 1 62,899 14.3 -2.0
UUP 0 64,021 14.5 -7.9

Sad to see the DUP & SF gaining support as it just encourages bigotry. :(

[cheifo]

NORTHERN IRELAND: LATEST RESULTS
Party Seats Seats +/- Votes* Votes % +/-%
DUP 8 135,601 30.7 +5.3
SF 8 111,744 25.3 +3.0
SDLP 1 62,899 14.3 -2.0
UUP 0 64,021 14.5 -7.9

Sad to see the DUP & SF gaining support as it just encourages bigotry. :(

I agree,depressing.Only good news is seemingly good performance for Alliance party.

[Poor Student]

SF 14 seats
DUP 13 seats
SDLP 2 seats
UUP 1 seat
Alliance 1 seat

SF and DUP running away with their respective communities. The SDLP and UUP will make up some ground once the transfers start pushing them over the quota but it seems a further increase for the polarising parties.

[Poor Student]

The UUP vote has really gone through the floor. Interestingly not all of its vote has drifted to the DUP. The Alliance party is polling well and seems to be picking up some of that UUP drift. The Unionist electorate seems to have really lost faith in that party.

SDLP vote is down but not as acute as the UUP. There's also a mild drift in general towards more neutral or non-partisan parties.

[Risteard]

No, sectarianism is institutionalised in the assembly. The two biggest parties from each side have to share power.

Not exactly a false divide though, is it?
What alternative would you propose?

[Lim till i die]

Sad to see the DUP & SF gaining support as it just encourages bigotry. :(

I think you'll find the more votes SF get the faster they'll sprint towards the middle ground and away from any "ideals" they may have once held ;)

It's happening already...........

[BohsPartisan]

Not exactly a false divide though, is it?
What alternative would you propose?

It is and it isn't. What has happened in Northern Ireland since the good Friday agreement is that this sectarian divide has been strengthened. There should have been attempts made to weaken it but by and large it is very difficult for parties who fall outside of the Nationalist/Unionist categorisation to make any sort of impact. Powersharing is inherantly flawed and undemocratic. It forces deputies that get elected to the assembly to declare themselves Unionist or Nationalist. Where do non sectarian candidates fit into this? They don't. The assembly elections are simply a sectarian headcount.
In northern society, some communities that used to be mixed have fractured along sectarian lines which can only lead to conflict in the future.
Powersharing is doomed to failure and unfortunately there is no alternative on the basis of the sectarian politicians DUP, UUP, SF and SDLP who have forged this system in their own image. I've a feeling things in the north are going to get a lot worse before they get better.

[Poor Student]

BP, you raise some very valid criticisims. However, Consociational government is often the only way to bring such a highly fractured society forward. Democracy can and did lead to Unionists wielding their given majority power over the nationalists. This system creates stability out of conflict. Such set ups have given stability to the likes of Holland and transitional South Africa, though it did fail Lebannon.

It is undemocratic however and institutionalises and crystalises the fragmentation of Northern Irish society. Like yourself, I don''t really see an alternative.

[holidaysong]

I was very pleased to see the Green Party get their first ever MLA as Brian Wilson was elected in North Down, getting 2,839 first preference votes. Also the Alliance Party gained an extra seat this time around, Anna Lo was the first MLA from an ethnic minority. Good to see at least some people not voting in the tribal manner.

[BohsPartisan]

I was very pleased to see the Green Party get their first ever MLA as Brian Wilson was elected in North Down.

He must have been picking up good vibrations! :D

[Risteard]

It is and it isn't. What has happened in Northern Ireland since the good Friday agreement is that this sectarian divide has been strengthened. There should have been attempts made to weaken it but by and large it is very difficult for parties who fall outside of the Nationalist/Unionist categorisation to make any sort of impact. Powersharing is inherantly flawed and undemocratic. It forces deputies that get elected to the assembly to declare themselves Unionist or Nationalist. Where do non sectarian candidates fit into this? They don't. The assembly elections are simply a sectarian headcount.
In northern society, some communities that used to be mixed have fractured along sectarian lines which can only lead to conflict in the future.
Powersharing is doomed to failure and unfortunately there is no alternative on the basis of the sectarian politicians DUP, UUP, SF and SDLP who have forged this system in their own image. I've a feeling things in the north are going to get a lot worse before they get better.
I'm unconvinced.
SF and DUP grew for different reasons.
Along with their move to the centre, SF also had the military activity as a negotiating tool. Thus concessions to nationalism are generally seen as SF victories.
The DUP grew because it demanded of the Provos what Trimble wouldn't.

As devolution goes, i reckon its the best option but i don't necessarily think devolution is a great thing.

[pete]

UUP lost 1/3 of its vote down to 15%
DUP now up top 30%

Those numbers point to massive shift from middle to extremes.

I can't see devolution working. The governments are basically trying to bribe them with "funding". Even if they do get their act together this month its only a matter of time before it collapses again. You'd swear NI voters did not want to be governed locally & I see the logic in that...

63% turnout its bad considering the history...

Who are these parties? Can you be called a party if get 0.1% of the National Vote? The ProC who ever muct not even have more than 22 members & friends... :D

UKIP 0 1,229
PBP 0 774
Soc 0 0 473
WP 0 0 975
LP 0 0 123
MPH 0 221
ProC 0 22

[Poor Student]

Those numbers point to massive shift from middle to extremes.

That's not strictly true. Half of the UUP's drop seems to have shifted to the DUP and half of it seems to have shifted towards some sort of "normalization" in the extra seats for the Greens and the Alliance. The UUP's collapse can't be read as a massive shift to the extreme but a general lack of confidence in the party. It seems the so called Gold Coast is moving towards somewhat of a normalisation. You've also seen a collapse in the vote for complete radical anti-agreement fringe unionism, McCartney lost his only seat and his stupid multi-constituency plan totally failed.


I can't see devolution working.

I can. In the last up and running assembley it worked quite well on bread and butter issues. After decomissioning and now a tacit agreement to sign up to policing the DUP have nearly run out of things to block power sharing. I think if they can't reach an agreement soon the next election will see power shift away from them again. People will vote for them now while there's still some negotiating to be done, just like SF's vote has increased while they whole the cards, but people are going to get very p'd off with bread and butter issues not being dealt with, hence you're already seeing a groth in vote for the Alliance and Greens.


The governments are basically trying to bribe them with "funding".

I don't see any harm in that, I think the Northern parties have also played their cards well in that they've tried to get as good a financial deal as possible by dragging their feet.


Even if they do get their act together this month its only a matter of time before it collapses again.

All parties want to wield the power, it's an attractive proposition. It's not in the DUP's interests to see the deadline missed. It'll give the Irish government a strong hand in implementing the GFA with the British government and that is not something that branch of Unionism is fond of. I really feel things will drift back to the UUP if it's let hang too long. Obviously there are some voters who would like that but at one time the UUP had the majority Unionist electorate behind them in trying to reach an agreement and implement devolution.


You'd swear NI voters did not want to be governed locally & I see the logic in that...

I wouldn't say that. The UUP, SDLP, Alliance and Greens are heavy pro-devolution votes. I'd also say most Sinn Fein votes would be considered pro-devolution. The only party that hasn't given a clear message of heading into powerhsharing it the DUP. They still only represent a large minority.


63% turnout its bad considering the history...

People are getting sick of the limbo dragging on while normal issues of everyday life and not governed effectively.


Who are these parties? Can you be called a party if get 0.1% of the National Vote? The ProC who ever muct not even have more than 22 members & friends... :D

UKIP 0 1,229
PBP 0 774
Soc 0 0 473
WP 0 0 975
LP 0 0 123
MPH 0 221
ProC 0 22

You must know UKIP (United Kingdom Independence Party), Kilroy-Silk's former party. They're somewhere between the BNP and Tories. They favour a full widthdrawal of the UK from the EU but without the racist overtones of the BNP.

Is LP the Labour Party?:confused:

[pete]

Greens & Alliance have very smaller numbers like down here so relatively insignificant as no chance of getting into a coalition like in the Republic.

[Poor Student]

Greens & Alliance have very smaller numbers like down here so relatively insignificant as no chance of getting into a coalition like in the Republic.

Just because neither party will hold a ministerial position it doesn't make it insignificant. The UUP first preference vote declined by nearly 8% of the national vote, the DUP only picked up 4.5% of that. The rest of it went to neutral parties. The Greens and Alliance are collectively up 3%. The last election suggested that the middle ground had been obliterated. I think if/when the Assembley is up and running you'll see the DUP vote decline. They're a catch all party with no clear agendas who flourish in time of hardball negotiations.

Btw, for impressive voter management, look at Sinn Fein's votes in West Belfast. Three candidates within 100 votes of each other, and a fourth within another few votes of that. They won 5 seats and managed to curb the temptation for Gerry Adams to rack up a huge first preference vote.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/vote2007/nielection/html/45.stm

[holidaysong]

UUP lost 1/3 of its vote down to 15%
DUP now up top 30%

Those numbers point to massive shift from middle to extremes.

I can't see devolution working. The governments are basically trying to bribe them with "funding". Even if they do get their act together this month its only a matter of time before it collapses again. You'd swear NI voters did not want to be governed locally & I see the logic in that...

63% turnout its bad considering the history...

Who are these parties? Can you be called a party if get 0.1% of the National Vote? The ProC who ever muct not even have more than 22 members & friends... :D

UKIP 0 1,229
PBP 0 774
Soc 0 0 473
WP 0 0 975
LP 0 0 123
MPH 0 221
ProC 0 22

ProC are the Pro-Capitalist Party.

[Poor Student]

PBP is People Before Profit, a water charges issue ticket. I think they only ran in West Belfast.

[pete]

Make Politicians History - MPH
People Before Profit Alliance - PBP
Procapitalism - PROC
Socialist Environmental Alliance - SEA
Socialist Party - Soc
United Kingdom Independence Party - UKIP
United Kingdom Unionist Party - UKUP
Workers Party - WP

[BohsPartisan]

PBP and SEA are both SWP fronts.

[Poor Student]

United Kingdom Unionist Party - UKUP


UKUP used to be noteworthy enough. The most anti-agreement anti-progress Unionist party, they even held a Westminister seat at one point. Their leader Bob McCartney ran in about 6 or 7 constituencies for this election. It seems if you win more than one seat you can nominate someone to take your place. The tactic failed miserably and they lost their only seat, Bob McCartney's. I think he's retired and I'd say they're consigned to the dustbin of history.

[Lionel Ritchie]

I always found Bob McCartney a very personable, likeable and intelligent guy despite profoundly disagreeing with his viewpoint on a good many things.

[Risteard]

Who are these parties? Can you be called a party if get 0.1% of the National Vote? The ProC who ever muct not even have more than 22 members & friends... :D

ProC 0 22

Come on now Pete!
I thought you were one of the 22 loony devoted separatists. (http://www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com/)

[BohsPartisan]

I'm totally in favour of Cork seperatism! ;)

[pete]

Come on now Pete!
I thought you were one of the 22 loony devoted separatists. (http://www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com/)

You've blown my cover. Trying to bring Dublin down from the inside.

:)

[Jerry The Saint]

I'm totally in favour of Cork seperatism! ;)

ÉIRE 31!